| Kieron Dyer - why now? 14:29 - Mar 23 with 5028 views | illusion_machine |
Really enjoyed listening to the the Kieron Dyer interview yesterday. It was good to hear that his physical and mental health are in a good state and I felt that he came across as very passionate about the club (and definitely wears his heart on his sleeve!).
I share Kieron's concerns around progression for our youth players. Even last season I was concerned that we weren't giving opportunities to youth players on the fringes (e.g. Jack Lankester) but also were reluctant to loan them out for experience (I recall Jack very nearly went to Salford on loan for the second half of the season but that fell through). This season, Paul Cook had to manage a large squad and essentially give our 'second' first team squad minutes in the cups to keep them happy, much to the detriment of youth player opportunities.
With McKenna coming in, he's essentially in firefighting mode and working out his best 11 for the remainder of the season. This is not the time to be gambling on youth players IMO. He also inherited an Ipswich team that had been knocked out of all of the cup competitions, so opportunities to promote the youth have been limited.
So whilst understanding where he's coming from (and recognising it had been a long standing challenge), I was left with the question "why now?". It seems from the interview that he had an epiphany during his Pro License course, but given the surprise from the club it all sounds very rushed. It sounds like this could have been handled better, for instance by voicing his concerns to the club (although perhaps he felt like he had exhausted that route) or by leaving at the end of the season.
I'd welcome any thoughts from the forum about this, as have been scratching my head since the interview! |  | | |  |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:33 - Mar 23 with 3859 views | GeoffSentence |
What I got from his interview was that he was learning about club culture as part of his Pro Licence, and it was that which prompted him to think about whether his culture and ethos lined up with the clubs. It doesn't , so he left. |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:37 - Mar 23 with 3836 views | Cotty |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:33 - Mar 23 by GeoffSentence |
What I got from his interview was that he was learning about club culture as part of his Pro Licence, and it was that which prompted him to think about whether his culture and ethos lined up with the clubs. It doesn't , so he left. |
If that is genuinely all it is, it's a little unprofessional to do so this so close to the end of the season. Why not finish it? Felt like an emotional decision to me from the interview. |  | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:52 - Mar 23 with 3755 views | FrimleyBlue |
For someone who's keen to manage higher, it's surprising he didn't hold off for a couple more months and have u23 league winner on his CV.
I do wonder too if player contracts are starting to be discussed and formalised, it tends to happen around this month for youngsters and we're letting some go that he disagrees with. [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 14:53]
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:58 - Mar 23 with 3715 views | N2_Blue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:37 - Mar 23 by Cotty |
If that is genuinely all it is, it's a little unprofessional to do so this so close to the end of the season. Why not finish it? Felt like an emotional decision to me from the interview. |
Agree, and think KD will regret that a little.
He does come across a little emotional in somethings and maybe that has clouded his decision making progress.
Unless he takes a position elsewhere in the next few weeks, it is extremely odd that he would not finish a season where his own team has a very good chance of winning its title and that the senior team is pushing for something, even if that is now unlikely it's certainly not definitely over.
Very odd, especially for a man passionate about the club...emotions have clouded judgement i feel which is unfortunate. |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 15:06 - Mar 23 with 3679 views | marchy |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:37 - Mar 23 by Cotty |
If that is genuinely all it is, it's a little unprofessional to do so this so close to the end of the season. Why not finish it? Felt like an emotional decision to me from the interview. |
It seems equally strange for the club to have allowed him leave with immediate effect so close to the end of the season, unless notice periods are somehow not the norm for staff in the business that is football. | | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 15:10 - Mar 23 with 3669 views | illusion_machine |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:58 - Mar 23 by N2_Blue |
Agree, and think KD will regret that a little.
He does come across a little emotional in somethings and maybe that has clouded his decision making progress.
Unless he takes a position elsewhere in the next few weeks, it is extremely odd that he would not finish a season where his own team has a very good chance of winning its title and that the senior team is pushing for something, even if that is now unlikely it's certainly not definitely over.
Very odd, especially for a man passionate about the club...emotions have clouded judgement i feel which is unfortunate. |
I agree with you both on this, would have made a lot of sense to step back at the end of the season with a good finish in the u23s under his belt.
It seems to be that his core strength (passion/emotion) is also his achilles heel given that he can't seem to control it and I just hope that doesn't hold him back in the long term because he has a lot going for him. | | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 16:22 - Mar 23 with 3469 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:37 - Mar 23 by Cotty |
If that is genuinely all it is, it's a little unprofessional to do so this so close to the end of the season. Why not finish it? Felt like an emotional decision to me from the interview. |
That's the only thing that stuck out for me. It does seem rash and impulsive, even though he may have been coming to the realisation for a while. It's not like the end of the season is that far away. A normal notice period would stretch to the end pretty much.
As for deciding his views and the club's don't align, that's fine - happens all the time. |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 16:53 - Mar 23 with 3401 views | BseaBlue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:37 - Mar 23 by Cotty |
If that is genuinely all it is, it's a little unprofessional to do so this so close to the end of the season. Why not finish it? Felt like an emotional decision to me from the interview. |
Does seem to be an emotional decision although it could be to get himself in the shop window of course! I would imagine he has admirers down the A12 and no doubt could be season ticket early bird time soon......
I wouldn't imagine he will comand a big wage because of his lack of managerial experience and no doubt that will play an important part to Mr Cowling as well. |  | | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 17:42 - Mar 23 with 3314 views | Veggie |
It does seem a bit of a rash decision given how well the U23s are doing. Surely it would have strengthened his chances of getting a first team management role if he’d stayed until the end of the season and then applied for jobs with a successful season under his belt. I find it difficult to believe that he couldn’t have got at least a National League job, given his profile and experience.
Now he probably looks a bit overly emotional and may put off potential clubs, thinking he may walk out on them mid season. Of course it’s also worth bearing in mind that he has serious health concerns, and it’s understandable that this would have an impact on work-life balance decisions. [Post edited 23 Mar 2022 17:45]
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 21:47 - Mar 23 with 3043 views | FrimleyBlue |
Just noticed the u23s have 4.. just 4 games left.
4 games away from potentially being u23 league winning manager. Why on earth would you throw that away.
Can't bemoan not getting interviewed for management jobs with that level of decision making imo.
4 games. Wtf. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 22:52 - Mar 23 with 2929 views | BondiBlue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:37 - Mar 23 by Cotty |
If that is genuinely all it is, it's a little unprofessional to do so this so close to the end of the season. Why not finish it? Felt like an emotional decision to me from the interview. |
Shouldn't speculate but i'd guess mental health. He looked upset at certain points in the video, he talked about recently thinking he was going to die, he's disillusioned and frustrated with feeling that his job is pointless. And then of course there's the pandemic which has affected all of us. Wouldn't be at all surprised if he's depressed.
I thought the reference to what he learned on his pro licence course was interesting. I had a very similar experience recently where i went on a course that essentially taught me how to do my boss' job. Came back to work, realised my boss was doing a terrible job, made some suggestions, boss was having none of it and started excluding me from the decision-making team because i was a threat and an upstart. Boom, depression. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:42 - Mar 24 with 2807 views | Sharkey |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 21:47 - Mar 23 by FrimleyBlue |
Just noticed the u23s have 4.. just 4 games left.
4 games away from potentially being u23 league winning manager. Why on earth would you throw that away.
Can't bemoan not getting interviewed for management jobs with that level of decision making imo.
4 games. Wtf. |
I couldn’t tell you who won the U23 league last year, and certainly not who the manager was, and I doubt many people here could provide the answer. The job is all about preparing players for first team action, and success is measured on how many players come through.
And if KD and John McG have been getting in each other’s way, why wouldn’t Town let Dyer go? (I wonder if they have had any assurances from J. McG that he’s not still applying for manager jobs.) |  | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 07:26 - Mar 24 with 2722 views | Vic |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:42 - Mar 24 by Sharkey |
I couldn’t tell you who won the U23 league last year, and certainly not who the manager was, and I doubt many people here could provide the answer. The job is all about preparing players for first team action, and success is measured on how many players come through.
And if KD and John McG have been getting in each other’s way, why wouldn’t Town let Dyer go? (I wonder if they have had any assurances from J. McG that he’s not still applying for manager jobs.) |
Doesn’t really matter what us lot on here know about U23 football does it - we’re not looking for the next manager of our football club! I’d have thought that anyone looking at CV’s on thier desk would take note of it and check it out with references. To walk away that close to the end of the season isn’t a good look imo. |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 07:53 - Mar 24 with 2719 views | Dyland |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 14:37 - Mar 23 by Cotty |
If that is genuinely all it is, it's a little unprofessional to do so this so close to the end of the season. Why not finish it? Felt like an emotional decision to me from the interview. |
Having experienced US corporate 'leadership' culture at first hand, I empathise with KD. Listening to how the business will operate (and I can see it easily, leadership principles and company values at the core of the process). Possibly the straw that broke the camel's back, on top of his perceived lack of chances for the kids currently.
I'm not saying enshrining 'leadership principles' and 'company values' into how everyone operates is always a load of bollix btw, not for every business anyway :)
EDIT: re his timing, you gotta do what you feel is right. Fair play to him. He's not feeling it's right, get out. That's called integrity. It's hardly shafting the club. Speculating whether it's a good or bad professional decision for him is irrelevant. He's being true to himself and will be happier for it, even if he, like we all do, sometimes have wry regrets with hindsight. If we had no regrets we aren't doing anything decisive in our lives though, and have probably never done much out of our safe little comfort zones.
Best of luck and god speed Kieron. [Post edited 24 Mar 2022 9:25]
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 08:13 - Mar 24 with 2626 views | rickw |
I completely agree, he would have been far better off staying til the end of the season - getting that U23 title on his CV and as soon as we fail to reach the play-offs go and speak to McKenna and convince him to give these young players a chance as it will be in everyone's interest... |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 08:25 - Mar 24 with 2604 views | urbanblue |
Much as he denied it in the interview I don't feel he has really got over being passed over for the Caretakers job. I would imagine it's an amalgamation of all the things he talked about.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned on these Dyer threads is his comment (and I forget the exact words) that K M is streets ahead in his coaching abilities than Dyer himself is. I mean, wouldn't you want to stay and feed off the knowledge that could be learned from someone who has clearly also, himself, worked with arguably some of the best Coaches in the world? |  | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 12:23 - Mar 24 with 2313 views | itfcjoe |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 06:42 - Mar 24 by Sharkey |
I couldn’t tell you who won the U23 league last year, and certainly not who the manager was, and I doubt many people here could provide the answer. The job is all about preparing players for first team action, and success is measured on how many players come through.
And if KD and John McG have been getting in each other’s way, why wouldn’t Town let Dyer go? (I wonder if they have had any assurances from J. McG that he’s not still applying for manager jobs.) |
I think this is a great point - winning things at U23s level means buggar all and reality is it's bringing through players which will get him noticed - especially as we aren't in the Cat 1 'Premier League 2' competition which does get some cut through |  |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 12:45 - Mar 24 with 2244 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 12:23 - Mar 24 by itfcjoe |
I think this is a great point - winning things at U23s level means buggar all and reality is it's bringing through players which will get him noticed - especially as we aren't in the Cat 1 'Premier League 2' competition which does get some cut through |
Disagree.
It's all well and good bringing players through but if you're applying for a managerial role at first team level you want to showcase why you'd be a good manager. Winning a league would go along way if you're being compared to others of similar level.
It's all well and good developing players but at first team level it's not about how many youngsters you're happy to play and try to develop it'll be to get promoted and win games, a different level of pressure.
Also it's the 2nd time kieron has left as a non player, let alone this time with only 4 games left. That will be noted when he's applying. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:12 - Mar 24 with 2158 views | Beckets |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 12:45 - Mar 24 by FrimleyBlue |
Disagree.
It's all well and good bringing players through but if you're applying for a managerial role at first team level you want to showcase why you'd be a good manager. Winning a league would go along way if you're being compared to others of similar level.
It's all well and good developing players but at first team level it's not about how many youngsters you're happy to play and try to develop it'll be to get promoted and win games, a different level of pressure.
Also it's the 2nd time kieron has left as a non player, let alone this time with only 4 games left. That will be noted when he's applying. |
McKenna seems to be making a pretty good job as a manager to date. I wonder how many Leagues he won in his 12 years as a coach. The answer is one under 18 league with Man United 4 years ago. I’d be surprised if that had any bearing on us giving him the manager job but Mark Ashton might tell us differently. |  | | |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:14 - Mar 24 with 2154 views | Vic |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 07:53 - Mar 24 by Dyland |
Having experienced US corporate 'leadership' culture at first hand, I empathise with KD. Listening to how the business will operate (and I can see it easily, leadership principles and company values at the core of the process). Possibly the straw that broke the camel's back, on top of his perceived lack of chances for the kids currently.
I'm not saying enshrining 'leadership principles' and 'company values' into how everyone operates is always a load of bollix btw, not for every business anyway :)
EDIT: re his timing, you gotta do what you feel is right. Fair play to him. He's not feeling it's right, get out. That's called integrity. It's hardly shafting the club. Speculating whether it's a good or bad professional decision for him is irrelevant. He's being true to himself and will be happier for it, even if he, like we all do, sometimes have wry regrets with hindsight. If we had no regrets we aren't doing anything decisive in our lives though, and have probably never done much out of our safe little comfort zones.
Best of luck and god speed Kieron. [Post edited 24 Mar 2022 9:25]
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"EDIT: re his timing, you gotta do what you feel is right. Fair play to him. He's not feeling it's right, get out. That's called integrity. It's hardly shafting the club. Speculating whether it's a good or bad professional decision for him is irrelevant. He's being true to himself and will be happier for it, even if he, like we all do, sometimes have wry regrets with hindsight."
I don't think for a minute that he's shafted the club (not sure anyone has said that really have they?). And he might well be being true to himself and showing what he thinks is integrity - but for me it strikes at being a little petulant and emotionally driven. I don't think he's wrong, I personally just wonder about the vibes this decision gives off and therefore the wisdom of it.
I take Joe's point about the role being about bringing players through - but for the sake of sticking with it for another 5 games and not having the risk of any misunderstanding?? I'm not sure!
Still, it's all about opinions and I wish him well and hope he is able to get the role we all want him to sooner rather than later. Good luck KD, where ever and whatever you get to do next. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:18 - Mar 24 with 2148 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:12 - Mar 24 by Beckets |
McKenna seems to be making a pretty good job as a manager to date. I wonder how many Leagues he won in his 12 years as a coach. The answer is one under 18 league with Man United 4 years ago. I’d be surprised if that had any bearing on us giving him the manager job but Mark Ashton might tell us differently. |
If you see that cv in front of you it makes sense why you'd talk to him
U18 league winner, followed by being Coach of the world's biggest club, promoted by well known manager Jose to first team level and assistant to Carrick and one who the new manager wanted to keep....
Compared to league 1 u23 manager.. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:19 - Mar 24 with 2139 views | Dyland |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:14 - Mar 24 by Vic |
"EDIT: re his timing, you gotta do what you feel is right. Fair play to him. He's not feeling it's right, get out. That's called integrity. It's hardly shafting the club. Speculating whether it's a good or bad professional decision for him is irrelevant. He's being true to himself and will be happier for it, even if he, like we all do, sometimes have wry regrets with hindsight."
I don't think for a minute that he's shafted the club (not sure anyone has said that really have they?). And he might well be being true to himself and showing what he thinks is integrity - but for me it strikes at being a little petulant and emotionally driven. I don't think he's wrong, I personally just wonder about the vibes this decision gives off and therefore the wisdom of it.
I take Joe's point about the role being about bringing players through - but for the sake of sticking with it for another 5 games and not having the risk of any misunderstanding?? I'm not sure!
Still, it's all about opinions and I wish him well and hope he is able to get the role we all want him to sooner rather than later. Good luck KD, where ever and whatever you get to do next. |
I'm not saying you or anyone else thinks he's shafting the club, if it's come across like that there was no intention on my part :) | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:32 - Mar 24 with 2068 views | southnorfolkblue |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 12:45 - Mar 24 by FrimleyBlue |
Disagree.
It's all well and good bringing players through but if you're applying for a managerial role at first team level you want to showcase why you'd be a good manager. Winning a league would go along way if you're being compared to others of similar level.
It's all well and good developing players but at first team level it's not about how many youngsters you're happy to play and try to develop it'll be to get promoted and win games, a different level of pressure.
Also it's the 2nd time kieron has left as a non player, let alone this time with only 4 games left. That will be noted when he's applying. |
Surely it’s more the role of the U23 manager to bring players through to the first team than winning a trophy? It would look much better on his cv if he could point to the players that he had had an active role in developing. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:35 - Mar 24 with 2059 views | Vic |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:32 - Mar 24 by southnorfolkblue |
Surely it’s more the role of the U23 manager to bring players through to the first team than winning a trophy? It would look much better on his cv if he could point to the players that he had had an active role in developing. |
But why leave now, with just 5 games left? It's a bit rum really. | |
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| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:36 - Mar 24 with 2061 views | Beckets |
| Kieron Dyer - why now? on 13:32 - Mar 24 by southnorfolkblue |
Surely it’s more the role of the U23 manager to bring players through to the first team than winning a trophy? It would look much better on his cv if he could point to the players that he had had an active role in developing. |
Exactly. That’s the criteria for success at under 18 and under 23 level not winning a league at that level. I was trying to get that message across to Frimley. | | | |
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