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Russian soldiers sent Olga Novikova, founder/director of Mariupol film festival video with her captured son demanding to pay 5000 Euro ransom for his life. If not they promised to send video of his execution. links in comments. pic.twitter.com/VBtauH45IZ
Two charming little actresses, Elizabeth and Sonya, of the city theatre of Mariupol. They both performed the role of Lucy in "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe".
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 22:26 - Nov 15 by TeHuia
TÄ“nÄ koutou
"They’re next and know it. It’s dead simple."
The Domino Theory? You're kidding right?
"Stop Putin or face all this again further down the line."
To quote from a summary of The Basic Principles of War Propaganda, (Anne Morelli, 2001).
Commandment no.3. Our adversary's leader is inherently evil and resembles the devil:
"You can not hate a group of people altogether, not even as your enemies. It is therefore more effective to direct the hatred to the leading personality of the enemy country. This way, "the enemy" will have a face, and this face will naturally become the object of hatred.
The enemy camp is most certainly run by a maniac, a monster (Milosevic, Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein), which challenges us and from which one must free humanity.
The first step in the process of demonization, according to Morelli, is the reduction of a whole country to a single person, as if nobody lived in Iraq, except Saddam Hussein with his "scary" Republican guards and his "frightful" weapons of mass destruction. The opponent is characterized by all conceivable ills and evils."
A handy argument indeed should anyone wish to "spare themselves the more difficult confrontation with the discourses of a political person and "refute" him on the basis of moral judgments".
The west is not ‘weaponising’. That term implies the west is tooling up an aggressor. It isn’t. It’s supplying materiel and expertise to help a smaller, weaker sovereign state try and defend itself against an aggressor that wants its territory and resources. What is immoral or wrong about that, unless you support Russia or you just want the problem to go away?
Commandment no.4. We are defending a noble cause, not our particular interests!:
Morelli analyzes that the economic and geopolitical goals of war must be masked by an ideal, by moral and legitimate values,
"It is necessary to persuade public opinion that we, unlike our enemies, go to war for infinitely honorable motives."
"For the Yugoslav war, we find the same deviation of the official goals from the unacknowledged goals of the conflict."
"NATO officially intervenes in order to preserve the multi-ethnic nature of Kosovo and in order to prevent minorities from being abused, in order to establish democracy and thus in order to end the rule of a dictator. It is in the defense of the sacred concerns of human rights.
But at the end of this war you can see that none of these goals have been achieved, you have moved remarkably far away from a multi - ethnic society, you realize that economic and geopolitical goals have been achieved that have never been never spoken of."
"Nuance seems to be a favoured word on here, but I’m struggling to find any in this or any justification in ‘negotiating’ with these animals."
Morelli adds: "The principle has a complement: that the enemy is a bloodthirsty monster representing a barbaric society."
Ka kite anÅ
I’m really not interested in what a philosopher has to say that supported bombings in the mid 80s that lead to injuries and death.
Perhaps you should enlighten the Baltic states, Finland, Poland and Sweden to save them the trouble and expense of defending themselves and in two cases joining NATO. Personally I believe they have every reason to be scared, but maybe you are blessed with knowledge that may help them.
The lessons of history are there for you. Plenty of them. You may accept or ignore them I’m sure for very good reasons. Up to you. Chamberlain and Daladier ignored those lessons in 1938 and we all know what happened next.
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 09:05 - Nov 16 with 5528 views
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:31 - Nov 16 by Churchman
I’m really not interested in what a philosopher has to say that supported bombings in the mid 80s that lead to injuries and death.
Perhaps you should enlighten the Baltic states, Finland, Poland and Sweden to save them the trouble and expense of defending themselves and in two cases joining NATO. Personally I believe they have every reason to be scared, but maybe you are blessed with knowledge that may help them.
The lessons of history are there for you. Plenty of them. You may accept or ignore them I’m sure for very good reasons. Up to you. Chamberlain and Daladier ignored those lessons in 1938 and we all know what happened next.
A poster who focuses only on one thread (apart from 2 posts 2 years ago) where they sow whatabouterry about Russia and it's actions.
Some CIL vibes coming through here.
SB
[Post edited 16 Nov 2022 9:22]
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 09:34 - Nov 16 with 5508 views
69 year old resident of Plesetske village, Kyiv region, was visiting her husband's grave yesterday at the local cemetery when shells from a Russian rocket killed her on the spot.
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 15:40 - Nov 16 by GlasgowBlue
I'm not particularly comfortable seeing Russian propaganda being parroted on here whilst people are being murdered in Ukraine.
The flip side of that is people should be free to post what they believe and be challenged over it. It is fairly clear that the 2 or 3 posters attempting to justify or excuse or downplay Russia's actions have been unable to state any real case.
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:31 - Nov 16 by Churchman
I’m really not interested in what a philosopher has to say that supported bombings in the mid 80s that lead to injuries and death.
Perhaps you should enlighten the Baltic states, Finland, Poland and Sweden to save them the trouble and expense of defending themselves and in two cases joining NATO. Personally I believe they have every reason to be scared, but maybe you are blessed with knowledge that may help them.
The lessons of history are there for you. Plenty of them. You may accept or ignore them I’m sure for very good reasons. Up to you. Chamberlain and Daladier ignored those lessons in 1938 and we all know what happened next.
I’m really not interested in what a philosopher has to say
The ten "commandments" of propaganda which Anne Morelli elaborates in this work are, above all, an analytical framework for pedagogical purposes and for media analysis.
Morelli does not want to take sides or defend "dictators", but show the regularity of use of the ten principles in the media and in society:
"I will not put to test the purity of one or the other's intentions. I am not going to find out who is lying and who is telling the truth, who is believing what he says, and who does not. My only intention is to illustrate the principles of propaganda that are used and to describe their functioning."
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:20 - Nov 17 with 5222 views
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 20:51 - Nov 15 by Trequartista
"Just waffle" lol. How convenient.
I see you've given up on trying to counter every point except the only bit I didn't reply to in your post, training all your fire on that. But why didn't I comment on it? Because I'd already given examples with the placement of NATO missiles getting closer to Russia's borders and US backed ousting of the pro-Russian president of Ukraine. Whether this consitutes provocation is a matter of opinion on which we differ, and that's fine, but i'm not hounding you for having that opinion as you are me.
I just posted another comment above so following on that, I think Commandment no.10 is in play here:
Whoever casts doubt on our propaganda helps the enemy and is a traitor
Whoever questions only one of the principles is necessarily a collaborator. There are only two areas, good and bad. You can only be for or against evil.
Therefore it is made impossible to give a dissenting opinion without running the risk of a "lynching process of the media". The normal pluralism of opinions no longer exists, all opposition is silenced and discredited by fake arguments.
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:20 - Nov 17 by TeHuia
I just posted another comment above so following on that, I think Commandment no.10 is in play here:
Whoever casts doubt on our propaganda helps the enemy and is a traitor
Whoever questions only one of the principles is necessarily a collaborator. There are only two areas, good and bad. You can only be for or against evil.
Therefore it is made impossible to give a dissenting opinion without running the risk of a "lynching process of the media". The normal pluralism of opinions no longer exists, all opposition is silenced and discredited by fake arguments.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:27 - Nov 17 by Kropotkin123
Welcome back. How are you doing?
Good thanks!
Enjoying the season, enjoying the Republician flop in the midterm elections and enjoying how badly things must be going for Russia if dear old CiL has been reactivated to spread some rubbish propaganda!
Hope you're keeping well.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:20 - Nov 17 by TeHuia
I just posted another comment above so following on that, I think Commandment no.10 is in play here:
Whoever casts doubt on our propaganda helps the enemy and is a traitor
Whoever questions only one of the principles is necessarily a collaborator. There are only two areas, good and bad. You can only be for or against evil.
Therefore it is made impossible to give a dissenting opinion without running the risk of a "lynching process of the media". The normal pluralism of opinions no longer exists, all opposition is silenced and discredited by fake arguments.
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:30 - Nov 17 by SpruceMoose
Good thanks!
Enjoying the season, enjoying the Republician flop in the midterm elections and enjoying how badly things must be going for Russia if dear old CiL has been reactivated to spread some rubbish propaganda!
Hope you're keeping well.
You had to go and jinx it didn't you? The GOP have just won back control of the House from the Dems.
If our season now goes tits up we will know who to blame.
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 00:20 - Nov 17 by TeHuia
I just posted another comment above so following on that, I think Commandment no.10 is in play here:
Whoever casts doubt on our propaganda helps the enemy and is a traitor
Whoever questions only one of the principles is necessarily a collaborator. There are only two areas, good and bad. You can only be for or against evil.
Therefore it is made impossible to give a dissenting opinion without running the risk of a "lynching process of the media". The normal pluralism of opinions no longer exists, all opposition is silenced and discredited by fake arguments.
You aren't casting doubt on "our propaganda", you are promoting Russia propaganda. You have done so by: - Using phases and excuses Russia uses to justify their illegal war. - Inaccurately referencing an opinion piece from the pope - Incorrectly referencing an organisation that does not support your position. - Providing a revised organisation whose information you demonstrated you didn't understand. - Inferring your own opinion and passing it off as a fierce critic of US media and government critic - Quoting a humourist who has been dead for over 100 years - Linking people to theories of war propaganda on Wikipedia because you have demonstrated you can't engage with actual evidence. - Choosing to ignore all evidence that contradicts your pre-formed opinion
Casting doubt on "our propaganda" requires you to actually engage with it.
[Post edited 17 Nov 2022 17:52]
Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top.
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:29 - Nov 17 by Kropotkin123
You aren't casting doubt on "our propaganda", you are promoting Russia propaganda. You have done so by: - Using phases and excuses Russia uses to justify their illegal war. - Inaccurately referencing an opinion piece from the pope - Incorrectly referencing an organisation that does not support your position. - Providing a revised organisation whose information you demonstrated you didn't understand. - Inferring your own opinion and passing it off as a fierce critic of US media and government critic - Quoting a humourist who has been dead for over 100 years - Linking people to theories of war propaganda on Wikipedia because you have demonstrated you can't engage with actual evidence. - Choosing to ignore all evidence that contradicts your pre-formed opinion
Casting doubt on "our propaganda" requires you to actually engage with it.
[Post edited 17 Nov 2022 17:52]
It's straight out of the CIL playbook, it's far from the first time Russian propaganda has been "legitimised" on here.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:07 - Nov 17 with 4949 views
I normally post depressing and sad items but this one is quite funny.
The Irish PM, deputy PM, most of the Irish Cabinet, the Leader of the House and several other MPs have been banned from traveling to Russia because they have upset Vlad.
Thanks for posting this. It articulates exactly how I think it is. It’s well worth reading.
I know people are tired of the killing, misery and economic hardship and desperately desire an end to it. But peace at any price, which actually means absorbing all Ukraine into Russia sooner or later, is no peace at all. Even if you agree with him that Ukraine is Russia really, he won’t stop there.
There are people that still try to excuse Putin, whether it’s buying into his belief that Ukraine is not a state, or that Russia is defending itself against the evil west or anything in between. The simple reality of what Putin has done over the years and will continue to do while he lives is there for all to see.
As the article says, there is only one solution and it’s not giving Putin any part of what he wants.
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The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 16:36 - Nov 18 with 4704 views
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 23:07 - Nov 17 by Eireannach_gorm
I normally post depressing and sad items but this one is quite funny.
The Irish PM, deputy PM, most of the Irish Cabinet, the Leader of the House and several other MPs have been banned from traveling to Russia because they have upset Vlad.
The 'special military operation' continues to reach new lows. on 07:19 - Nov 18 by Churchman
Thanks for posting this. It articulates exactly how I think it is. It’s well worth reading.
I know people are tired of the killing, misery and economic hardship and desperately desire an end to it. But peace at any price, which actually means absorbing all Ukraine into Russia sooner or later, is no peace at all. Even if you agree with him that Ukraine is Russia really, he won’t stop there.
There are people that still try to excuse Putin, whether it’s buying into his belief that Ukraine is not a state, or that Russia is defending itself against the evil west or anything in between. The simple reality of what Putin has done over the years and will continue to do while he lives is there for all to see.
As the article says, there is only one solution and it’s not giving Putin any part of what he wants.
As a postscript to this, there is more on BBC on Russian torture chambers and killings in the occupied areas. I’m sure one or two posters will be ‘even handed’ about it and enthusiastically buy the Russian line that they don’t do such things or target civilians.
However the evidence looks pretty overwhelming to me. From independent assessments, satellite images of graves, statements of survivors and evidence from those exhumed. Russia is engaged in terror. It is forcing its will upon Ukraine any way it can. I originally thought these actions were the product of badly trained, ill disciplined soldiers. There are plenty of people in this world that enjoy rape, torture and killing, but this appears systemic and encouraged by Putin’s people.
I get that people are terrified of Putin going nuclear (aren’t we all), but they have to be pushed out of Ukraine. All of it and held to account.
The apologists suck up Putin’s nonsense about Nato aggression. It isn’t and never has been. However I think it’s time to move from Ukraine life support (Biden’s policy) to helping a sovereign state more forcibly by telling Putin to return his air and naval assets in that area to Russian territory. A no fly zone and his navy in its own territorial waters.
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