| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,†said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: 10:44 - May 29 with 5053 views | Keno |
“We are just a few off.”
Well thats encouraging!!
I hope anyone us inflicted with a Tory MP have contacted him/her/it to express our dissatisfaction and suggest the MP doesnt the right thing and submit their letter
FOPRB |  |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:08 - May 29 with 3225 views | ZXBlue |
In the long run, it may be better for this to drag on and Boris to stay. More likely to provide a resounding GE result. |  | | |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:16 - May 29 with 3200 views | Ryorry |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:08 - May 29 by ZXBlue |
In the long run, it may be better for this to drag on and Boris to stay. More likely to provide a resounding GE result. |
Agree, though it's very hard to stomach while he & his cronies carry on dismantling the UK brick by brick - you just wonder how many years it's going to take to restore things like the ministerial code as it was, repeal horrendous new legislation like removal of the right to protest etc etc. |  |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:16 - May 29 with 3201 views | NthQldITFC |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:08 - May 29 by ZXBlue |
In the long run, it may be better for this to drag on and Boris to stay. More likely to provide a resounding GE result. |
Maybe, but I don't think the bastards have got anyone else remotely as 'charismatic' as Johnson, so perhaps an interim leader following the same illusionary and revolting policies without the 'charisma', might actually result in a bigger swing come GE time, as the disillusioned Johnson worshippers realise where and how they've been led? |  |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:17 - May 29 with 3199 views | J2BLUE |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:08 - May 29 by ZXBlue |
In the long run, it may be better for this to drag on and Boris to stay. More likely to provide a resounding GE result. |
The problem there is that they keep him as a human shield for another 18 months then replace him with someone like Raab who would go over big with they base. |  |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:17 - May 29 with 3197 views | Keno |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:08 - May 29 by ZXBlue |
In the long run, it may be better for this to drag on and Boris to stay. More likely to provide a resounding GE result. |
Not sure, I think the sooner this clown is out the better | |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:18 - May 29 with 3191 views | Ryorry |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:16 - May 29 by NthQldITFC |
Maybe, but I don't think the bastards have got anyone else remotely as 'charismatic' as Johnson, so perhaps an interim leader following the same illusionary and revolting policies without the 'charisma', might actually result in a bigger swing come GE time, as the disillusioned Johnson worshippers realise where and how they've been led? |
Good point 👠| |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:22 - May 29 with 3175 views | ZXBlue |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:16 - May 29 by Ryorry |
Agree, though it's very hard to stomach while he & his cronies carry on dismantling the UK brick by brick - you just wonder how many years it's going to take to restore things like the ministerial code as it was, repeal horrendous new legislation like removal of the right to protest etc etc. |
I would hope and imagine that Starmer, given his background, would be very keen to put that sort of thing right promptly.
Frankly though, the floodgates have been opened. Its been normalised. PR is probably the only genuine protection against it. | | | |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:37 - May 29 with 3079 views | Churchman |
Too late. Whether he stays, goes, is replaced by a Mysteron or the greatest as yet unknown politician in history, the tories are done. Cooked. Finished. There are places like where I live where a pile of dog mess with a blue rosette would get elected, but I’ll be amazed if they get 150 seats.
Maybe in 15, 20 years time if they change everything, find some decency and understanding of what the real world looks like and what a representative of a constituency should be there to do, they might be worthy of consideration. Until then, it’ll be back to the comfort of the opposition benches they enjoyed so lavishly late 90s to 2010. |  | | |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:38 - May 29 with 3067 views | J2BLUE |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:16 - May 29 by Ryorry |
Agree, though it's very hard to stomach while he & his cronies carry on dismantling the UK brick by brick - you just wonder how many years it's going to take to restore things like the ministerial code as it was, repeal horrendous new legislation like removal of the right to protest etc etc. |
It will be interesting to see if they do repeal that kind of legislation. You see plenty of examples of governments bringing this stuff in but few of the 'good guys' removing it. | |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 12:29 - May 29 with 2949 views | Unit2Blue |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:08 - May 29 by ZXBlue |
In the long run, it may be better for this to drag on and Boris to stay. More likely to provide a resounding GE result. |
I think it would be stupid to change Boris, we are all aware of his lies and broken promises.
We all be out in numbers at the next GE and they will be well beaten.
Not too sure that Starmer is the one though, need someone that will appeal to everyone. | | | |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 12:39 - May 29 with 2933 views | pointofblue |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 12:29 - May 29 by Unit2Blue |
I think it would be stupid to change Boris, we are all aware of his lies and broken promises.
We all be out in numbers at the next GE and they will be well beaten.
Not too sure that Starmer is the one though, need someone that will appeal to everyone. |
The only thing is can this country cope with two more years of Boris?
Personally I think they’ll give him another 12 to 18 months, then tell him to jump or be pushed. The new leader can then come in with “fresh ideas” and a “not my fault, guv” approach. | |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 12:46 - May 29 with 2906 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:37 - May 29 by Churchman |
Too late. Whether he stays, goes, is replaced by a Mysteron or the greatest as yet unknown politician in history, the tories are done. Cooked. Finished. There are places like where I live where a pile of dog mess with a blue rosette would get elected, but I’ll be amazed if they get 150 seats.
Maybe in 15, 20 years time if they change everything, find some decency and understanding of what the real world looks like and what a representative of a constituency should be there to do, they might be worthy of consideration. Until then, it’ll be back to the comfort of the opposition benches they enjoyed so lavishly late 90s to 2010. |
I couldn’t have put it better myself. |  |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:11 - May 29 with 2843 views | HARRY10 |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:22 - May 29 by ZXBlue |
I would hope and imagine that Starmer, given his background, would be very keen to put that sort of thing right promptly.
Frankly though, the floodgates have been opened. Its been normalised. PR is probably the only genuine protection against it. |
PR would be an absolute disaster - if only that it would ensure Johnson was not voted out as an MP, or not party leader.
Voters would be going to the polls 'blind' not knowing who their MP would be, even were they to win. Also not knowing what policies they were voting for either. Partys simply insert stuff they are happy to trade away after the election (see 2107)
It removes local accountability, and to a degree a huge chunk of democracy. Decisions made by governments are almost always binary for/against. Or are we to bring back hanging, but only by string, and only for 10 secs and more as each coalition partner has their input ?
As things stand the FPTP is the greatest threat to the Tories. s with the almost certainty of tactical voting, over 100 Tory MPs are now waking up to the reality of Johnsons lying anf incompetence. Despite the 'news' from Youguv, it has been known for months that the polls point to a Tory loss of over 100 seats. That there has been no action suggests many Tories thought it was a blip, and 'normal service would soon be resumed'.
It will be interesting to see, in the upcoming Devon by election, how far the Tory vote shrinks, and whether it has gone to the LD or simply stayed at home. If it is the former then it suggests Tory voters won't Johnson out
And is likely to be something that will grow, the longer he stays, given his utter incompetence
However, the real question is why so many need to believe what are obvious lies (see US guns). Brexut was never an informed debate. It was just lie after lie (now being seen) and a shutting down of any wish to hear the truth. | | | |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:13 - May 29 with 2831 views | tractordownsouth |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:17 - May 29 by J2BLUE |
The problem there is that they keep him as a human shield for another 18 months then replace him with someone like Raab who would go over big with they base. |
Raab won't go for the leadership, unless he wants to become the first sitting PM to lose his seat. |  |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:32 - May 29 with 2753 views | blueislander |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:13 - May 29 by tractordownsouth |
Raab won't go for the leadership, unless he wants to become the first sitting PM to lose his seat. |
The TORIES found a seat when he needed one ,so they could for Raab if necessary. The funny thing is that the current polls point to Johnson losing his current seat. | | | |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:33 - May 29 with 2747 views | J2BLUE |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:13 - May 29 by tractordownsouth |
Raab won't go for the leadership, unless he wants to become the first sitting PM to lose his seat. |
I'll believe a leader of the Tories/Labour can lose their seat when I see it. | |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:41 - May 29 with 2723 views | pointofblue |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:13 - May 29 by tractordownsouth |
Raab won't go for the leadership, unless he wants to become the first sitting PM to lose his seat. |
If he wins the leadership they’ll probably move him to a safe seat. Like Central Suffolk and North Ipswich. | |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:52 - May 29 with 2682 views | Felstow1978 |
Be Careful What You Wish For ... if Worzel faces and then survives a leadership contest then under Braunes Haus rules he's safe from any further challenge for the next 12 months. This consequence is most likely prompting potential dissenters from acting at this point in time, instead they're waiting for the landscape to deteriorate to the stage where it becomes certain that Worzel will lose, were he to choose to stand and lie his way through a contest. | |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:56 - May 29 with 2644 views | EddyJ |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:11 - May 29 by HARRY10 |
PR would be an absolute disaster - if only that it would ensure Johnson was not voted out as an MP, or not party leader.
Voters would be going to the polls 'blind' not knowing who their MP would be, even were they to win. Also not knowing what policies they were voting for either. Partys simply insert stuff they are happy to trade away after the election (see 2107)
It removes local accountability, and to a degree a huge chunk of democracy. Decisions made by governments are almost always binary for/against. Or are we to bring back hanging, but only by string, and only for 10 secs and more as each coalition partner has their input ?
As things stand the FPTP is the greatest threat to the Tories. s with the almost certainty of tactical voting, over 100 Tory MPs are now waking up to the reality of Johnsons lying anf incompetence. Despite the 'news' from Youguv, it has been known for months that the polls point to a Tory loss of over 100 seats. That there has been no action suggests many Tories thought it was a blip, and 'normal service would soon be resumed'.
It will be interesting to see, in the upcoming Devon by election, how far the Tory vote shrinks, and whether it has gone to the LD or simply stayed at home. If it is the former then it suggests Tory voters won't Johnson out
And is likely to be something that will grow, the longer he stays, given his utter incompetence
However, the real question is why so many need to believe what are obvious lies (see US guns). Brexut was never an informed debate. It was just lie after lie (now being seen) and a shutting down of any wish to hear the truth. |
The majority of people vote on national issues rather than local. May as well codify that in our electoral system rather than electing a local MP based on who their boss is.
I'd also argue that the majority of political decisions are not binary. Very rarely do we have a "legalise gay marriage or not" or "leave the EU or not" kind of decision. Mostly, what we have is "how much tax to charge and where to spend it" which has many shade of grey. Even something like Brexit, which was framed as a binary, actually has huge nuances as to how it is implemented. | | | |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 14:15 - May 29 with 2569 views | tractordownsouth |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:41 - May 29 by pointofblue |
If he wins the leadership they’ll probably move him to a safe seat. Like Central Suffolk and North Ipswich. |
The PR of the PM doing a chicken run from Surrey to Suffolk (or anywhere else) would be terrible. Unless his constituency is split by the boundary changes and he can move to another Surrey seat I can't see it happening. Although I don't see any chance of him becoming leader anyway. | |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 14:34 - May 29 with 2520 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 11:38 - May 29 by J2BLUE |
It will be interesting to see if they do repeal that kind of legislation. You see plenty of examples of governments bringing this stuff in but few of the 'good guys' removing it. |
I can guarantee that they won’t. |  |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 14:44 - May 29 with 2490 views | ZXBlue |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:11 - May 29 by HARRY10 |
PR would be an absolute disaster - if only that it would ensure Johnson was not voted out as an MP, or not party leader.
Voters would be going to the polls 'blind' not knowing who their MP would be, even were they to win. Also not knowing what policies they were voting for either. Partys simply insert stuff they are happy to trade away after the election (see 2107)
It removes local accountability, and to a degree a huge chunk of democracy. Decisions made by governments are almost always binary for/against. Or are we to bring back hanging, but only by string, and only for 10 secs and more as each coalition partner has their input ?
As things stand the FPTP is the greatest threat to the Tories. s with the almost certainty of tactical voting, over 100 Tory MPs are now waking up to the reality of Johnsons lying anf incompetence. Despite the 'news' from Youguv, it has been known for months that the polls point to a Tory loss of over 100 seats. That there has been no action suggests many Tories thought it was a blip, and 'normal service would soon be resumed'.
It will be interesting to see, in the upcoming Devon by election, how far the Tory vote shrinks, and whether it has gone to the LD or simply stayed at home. If it is the former then it suggests Tory voters won't Johnson out
And is likely to be something that will grow, the longer he stays, given his utter incompetence
However, the real question is why so many need to believe what are obvious lies (see US guns). Brexut was never an informed debate. It was just lie after lie (now being seen) and a shutting down of any wish to hear the truth. |
There are issues with PR and a local represnetative system. There are various hybrids we should perhaps be looking at. But a system that gives one corrupt party who do not care about consitutional conventions so much power, is not sustainable anymore. It is doing serious damage.
In the local elections, 2 tories got in where I am. Despite having significantly less than half the vote, which was split among greens libs and a smattering of labour. The representatives we now have, are nowhere near reflective of the will of the people. | | | |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 15:31 - May 29 with 2414 views | HARRY10 |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 14:44 - May 29 by ZXBlue |
There are issues with PR and a local represnetative system. There are various hybrids we should perhaps be looking at. But a system that gives one corrupt party who do not care about consitutional conventions so much power, is not sustainable anymore. It is doing serious damage.
In the local elections, 2 tories got in where I am. Despite having significantly less than half the vote, which was split among greens libs and a smattering of labour. The representatives we now have, are nowhere near reflective of the will of the people. |
A caolotion would merely spread the guilt.
The idea that the PR buffoonert is some kinf of silver bullett is absilute nonsense.
Any coalition alwayus sees a dominant party (see 2010) and has at is formation not the 'will of the people', but the will of a half cozen 'grey beards' carving up things in a back room.
Plocoes that were voted for a dumped with no 'peoples will' involved.
The fault lies solely with voters. What is being called for with PR is to ignore that and believe as in the USS taht simply giving body armout to choildren to protect them is the solution. make the UK a little less democratic, taht will do,
As to the idea that brexit was not binary is absurd, the vote was as what happened after. And despite all the waffle about soft, hard, skinny, light .... brexot the harsh reality is what was a;always going to be the case. The UK is out. Out of the CU and SM, and is having to accept being treated like other 3rd countries.
And therein lies the danger of peddling the PR myth, that it will deliver what it can't and all will be well.
FTTP throws up all manner of anomalies, but it does not rob the electorate by lying about what it is.
Now why not take a look around you, and recognise just how many mobbers voted for the corrupt bunch of crooks, and how little voters are doing about it. | | | |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 15:39 - May 29 with 2403 views | LeoMuff |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 12:46 - May 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I couldn’t have put it better myself. |
I really, really hope that is true, but sadly many are clueless and just follow the media soundbites, I can see it being a close run thing sadly wether Bozo goes or not. |  |
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| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 15:40 - May 29 with 2395 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| "“I reckon we are in the 40s,” said one rebel Tory MP. Another added: on 13:11 - May 29 by HARRY10 |
PR would be an absolute disaster - if only that it would ensure Johnson was not voted out as an MP, or not party leader.
Voters would be going to the polls 'blind' not knowing who their MP would be, even were they to win. Also not knowing what policies they were voting for either. Partys simply insert stuff they are happy to trade away after the election (see 2107)
It removes local accountability, and to a degree a huge chunk of democracy. Decisions made by governments are almost always binary for/against. Or are we to bring back hanging, but only by string, and only for 10 secs and more as each coalition partner has their input ?
As things stand the FPTP is the greatest threat to the Tories. s with the almost certainty of tactical voting, over 100 Tory MPs are now waking up to the reality of Johnsons lying anf incompetence. Despite the 'news' from Youguv, it has been known for months that the polls point to a Tory loss of over 100 seats. That there has been no action suggests many Tories thought it was a blip, and 'normal service would soon be resumed'.
It will be interesting to see, in the upcoming Devon by election, how far the Tory vote shrinks, and whether it has gone to the LD or simply stayed at home. If it is the former then it suggests Tory voters won't Johnson out
And is likely to be something that will grow, the longer he stays, given his utter incompetence
However, the real question is why so many need to believe what are obvious lies (see US guns). Brexut was never an informed debate. It was just lie after lie (now being seen) and a shutting down of any wish to hear the truth. |
It is FPTP that has become, maybe always was, the "absolute disaster".
Regardless of party politics it is simply unacceptable that a government can secure a huge majority, or indeed any sort of majority, with less than 50% of the vote.
You also cannot talk of "PR" as one thing. There are many systems out there (and that was the farce of THAT plebiscite - too many options that were too little understood; if one were cynical one might almost think the referendum was designed to get the "stick with FPTP" answer).
There are many PR systems and variations on some of the main ones (open and closed list systems, single transferable vote, "top up" systems) currently in use around the world. Maybe someone (if they have not already done so) could report on those and find a solution which addresses your concerns. If not then don't worry as sticking with FPTP may see the next generation as the last to be accorded any sort of vote. |  |
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