| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town 12:25 - Jul 5 with 5407 views | cbower |
Leigh in and Still looking to bring in another. Question mark against Ndaba's future to if this kid from Leeds can play cb , lb and lwb. 1 million plus add ons is serious money for us. |  |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:01 - Jul 5 with 1003 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 14:54 - Jul 5 by hype313 |
Where did I say that? |
What's your point then about the upheaval? |  |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:05 - Jul 5 with 995 views | BlueBadger |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 14:55 - Jul 5 by Big_Jase |
Being an adequate squad player is subjective, and your opinion. In my opinion he is incredibly lucky to even be back up at a L1 club.
He is weak, always out of position and at best has an average delivery. I would be very surprised if he leaves here, he ends up at another L1 club. For me, comfortably the worst player in our squad. |
He's a LB equivalent of Piggot. He's not particularly good going forward, not a great crosser and weak defensively. It's difficult to see what he brings to the side. |  |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:08 - Jul 5 with 968 views | Parky |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 14:33 - Jul 5 by BonneNIL |
Let's be honest Alan Judge, Emyr Huws, Teddy Bishop, and Cole Skuse could have done the same jobs, Caroll, Edwards, and Harper did for us last season and would have cost half the money, even Sears would have scored more than Piggott and Jackson did, but that's not aligned to the "bomb squad" narrative Cook sold us when he decided to take a sledgehammer to things rather than fine-tune it.
At least had we kept Chambers we wouldn't have started the season without a captain, which in itself wasn't smart. I still pin most of last season's failure on the fact we signed Walton and Morsy too late, had we got those two in from the very start we would have done so much better. |
State of that first paragraph. |  | | |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:10 - Jul 5 with 954 views | BlueBadger |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:08 - Jul 5 by Parky |
State of that first paragraph. |
Judge is going to Rip Up The Division this season, definitely. Honest. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:17 - Jul 5 with 925 views | BlueBadger |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 12:29 - Jul 5 by Garv |
I do hope Leigh and Leif (seriously?) can cross a ball because we'll miss that from Penney if and when he leafes. |
Yeah, we'll definitely miss Penney hitting the first man and subsequently getting caught out of position when the other side gain possession as a result. [Post edited 5 Jul 2022 15:29]
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:38 - Jul 5 with 887 views | jayessess |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 14:56 - Jul 5 by FrimleyBlue |
You think the club should have expected wilson to be able to play 42 games when he'd managed previously
17
23
11
8
19
The last time he played over 40 games let alone even more than 30 games was back in 2015. |
I think they should have planned their squad building so they weren't panic buying Cameron Burgess at a massively inflated price in mid-August.
Now, that might have involved identifying better, more realistic targets earlier in the Summer. It could also have involved identifying that Woolfenden, Donacien or even Ndaba had the ability to be first team centre backs for us over the longer term, so maybe we didn't need to be panic buying an expensive peak age centre back with some significant flaws. It might have involved noticing that Wilson was past his injury problems and worth retaining as a squad player.
I'm not saying they were easy calls, but making them correctly is what Cook and Ashton were being paid handsomely for last Summer. If it was easy, any schmuck with a wyscout account could do it for minimum wage. [Post edited 5 Jul 2022 15:41]
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:43 - Jul 5 with 867 views | clive_baker |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 14:55 - Jul 5 by Big_Jase |
Being an adequate squad player is subjective, and your opinion. In my opinion he is incredibly lucky to even be back up at a L1 club.
He is weak, always out of position and at best has an average delivery. I would be very surprised if he leaves here, he ends up at another L1 club. For me, comfortably the worst player in our squad. |
Inclined to agree with you on that. It's very difficult to say 'he's L1, he's L2' etc as so many factors can play a part. Myles Kenlock has a number of Championship appearances to his name, but finds himself without a club at 25 and I would suggest he'll be lucky to stay in L2. I would put him in a similar bracket to Penney, a huge amount to their game that's not to be admired. I think Penney is so physically weak that he struggles with the defensive side of things, doesn't use the ball particularly well, doesn't create further forward consistently. KM has evidently made his mind up and on the evidence I've seen I can see why. It's a bit more neuanced than 'when has he made a mistake', I just don't think his all round game is particularly strong. Can't think of many times Kenlock cocked up either, but the lack of confidence those around him had in his abilities was always so telling.
Don't like to be harsh about players and would love to be proved wrong, it's just my opinion. |  |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:48 - Jul 5 with 850 views | itfcjoe |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:43 - Jul 5 by clive_baker |
Inclined to agree with you on that. It's very difficult to say 'he's L1, he's L2' etc as so many factors can play a part. Myles Kenlock has a number of Championship appearances to his name, but finds himself without a club at 25 and I would suggest he'll be lucky to stay in L2. I would put him in a similar bracket to Penney, a huge amount to their game that's not to be admired. I think Penney is so physically weak that he struggles with the defensive side of things, doesn't use the ball particularly well, doesn't create further forward consistently. KM has evidently made his mind up and on the evidence I've seen I can see why. It's a bit more neuanced than 'when has he made a mistake', I just don't think his all round game is particularly strong. Can't think of many times Kenlock cocked up either, but the lack of confidence those around him had in his abilities was always so telling.
Don't like to be harsh about players and would love to be proved wrong, it's just my opinion. |
Penney is clearly a winger who has been converted into a full back but has never been able to work out how to defend - he's a left winger in a 442. The engine to get up and down, and can swing a decent ball in plus is comfortable enough in possession.
Once there is no one behind him he's in trouble because he doesn't read the game well, is weak and can't contest a header well enough to put off his man let alone win it.
He's evidently been moved back because he can step forward with the ball well, so tries to get him that space to paly in, but it highlights his defensive play |  |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:50 - Jul 5 with 839 views | cbower |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:38 - Jul 5 by jayessess |
I think they should have planned their squad building so they weren't panic buying Cameron Burgess at a massively inflated price in mid-August.
Now, that might have involved identifying better, more realistic targets earlier in the Summer. It could also have involved identifying that Woolfenden, Donacien or even Ndaba had the ability to be first team centre backs for us over the longer term, so maybe we didn't need to be panic buying an expensive peak age centre back with some significant flaws. It might have involved noticing that Wilson was past his injury problems and worth retaining as a squad player.
I'm not saying they were easy calls, but making them correctly is what Cook and Ashton were being paid handsomely for last Summer. If it was easy, any schmuck with a wyscout account could do it for minimum wage. [Post edited 5 Jul 2022 15:41]
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Beautifully put. Cook as the self-proclaimed "demolition man" got lots wrong both with the players he recruited and those that were still here but he didn't rate. Most of those let go (Wilson aside) I fully agreed with. Losing Downes was a fait accompli. How much Ashton has to do with recruitment, I have no idea but he certainly got deals across the line. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:55 - Jul 5 with 832 views | Jimmy86 |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 12:47 - Jul 5 by itfcjoe |
Was so stupid to release Wilson and Chambers and then spend £750k on Burgess and give him a 3 year deal - he's just not very good.
Could have offered Wilson a 2 year deal, or Chambers a 1 year deal, on far less money than we will be paying Burgess and they'd have bitten our hand off for it |
Surely the best compliment you could pay Burgess is, that silly red card aside, he slotted into that back 3 when the fridge was out for the remainder of the season? He did well, by all accounts?
Don't think he's as bad as people say he is... [Post edited 5 Jul 2022 16:16]
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:55 - Jul 5 with 810 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:38 - Jul 5 by jayessess |
I think they should have planned their squad building so they weren't panic buying Cameron Burgess at a massively inflated price in mid-August.
Now, that might have involved identifying better, more realistic targets earlier in the Summer. It could also have involved identifying that Woolfenden, Donacien or even Ndaba had the ability to be first team centre backs for us over the longer term, so maybe we didn't need to be panic buying an expensive peak age centre back with some significant flaws. It might have involved noticing that Wilson was past his injury problems and worth retaining as a squad player.
I'm not saying they were easy calls, but making them correctly is what Cook and Ashton were being paid handsomely for last Summer. If it was easy, any schmuck with a wyscout account could do it for minimum wage. [Post edited 5 Jul 2022 15:41]
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Again how they went about their business is a different discussion.
Now we all have different opinions. But those of the manager at the time also don't forget liked Nsiala. So we went into the season with Wolfenden. Toto. Edmundson. Burgess. Donacien. We didn't miss Chambers or Wilson and still don't today.
Going back again to the actual point regarding wilson, your expecting a club to randomly predict a player who had injuries every season to suddenly not have one. You'd hope but you can't predict that. Not with his history. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:57 - Jul 5 with 811 views | itfcjoe |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:55 - Jul 5 by Jimmy86 |
Surely the best compliment you could pay Burgess is, that silly red card aside, he slotted into that back 3 when the fridge was out for the remainder of the season? He did well, by all accounts?
Don't think he's as bad as people say he is... [Post edited 5 Jul 2022 16:16]
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He's a bang average L1 CB, but more a head it/kick it type - the sort of player you should be able to grab on a 1-2 year deal on a free transfer.
WOuld be fine as a squad member generally, but we paid a load of money for him, no doubt pay him a lot per week and gave him a 3 year deal - it will hamstring us going forwards | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:58 - Jul 5 with 778 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:48 - Jul 5 by itfcjoe |
Penney is clearly a winger who has been converted into a full back but has never been able to work out how to defend - he's a left winger in a 442. The engine to get up and down, and can swing a decent ball in plus is comfortable enough in possession.
Once there is no one behind him he's in trouble because he doesn't read the game well, is weak and can't contest a header well enough to put off his man let alone win it.
He's evidently been moved back because he can step forward with the ball well, so tries to get him that space to paly in, but it highlights his defensive play |
Lol brilliant
I spent months saying the same. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:15 - Jul 5 with 774 views | jayessess |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:55 - Jul 5 by FrimleyBlue |
Again how they went about their business is a different discussion.
Now we all have different opinions. But those of the manager at the time also don't forget liked Nsiala. So we went into the season with Wolfenden. Toto. Edmundson. Burgess. Donacien. We didn't miss Chambers or Wilson and still don't today.
Going back again to the actual point regarding wilson, your expecting a club to randomly predict a player who had injuries every season to suddenly not have one. You'd hope but you can't predict that. Not with his history. |
I don't think it is a different discussion. Which players you retain is about what business you can realistically do, not just about the player.
On Wilson's fitness - firstly, the club has a medical department to do assessments of people's fitness, it's not a "random prediction". Secondly, Wilson had no significant injuries at all in 2019-20 and was selected in every matchday squad bar one (he was suspended). At Lincoln he just seems to have dropped out of the first team picture, so don't know what his injury record there was. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:23 - Jul 5 with 754 views | clive_baker |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:48 - Jul 5 by itfcjoe |
Penney is clearly a winger who has been converted into a full back but has never been able to work out how to defend - he's a left winger in a 442. The engine to get up and down, and can swing a decent ball in plus is comfortable enough in possession.
Once there is no one behind him he's in trouble because he doesn't read the game well, is weak and can't contest a header well enough to put off his man let alone win it.
He's evidently been moved back because he can step forward with the ball well, so tries to get him that space to paly in, but it highlights his defensive play |
Agree with that, although I'm not even convinced he would be much of a winger even with an experienced LB behind him. He's very average on the ball, he's just a very mediocre footballer at this level if you're being generous, I don't think he is particularly comfortable in possession and I didn't see much creativity from him personally.
Players like Matt Penney are two a penny, if you'll pardon the pun, but in his defence he's probably relatively cheap, 1 year left on his deal, free transfer. It won't be a signing we live to deeply regret I imagine, but he's not a player that will kick us on. In my opinion. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:28 - Jul 5 with 716 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:15 - Jul 5 by jayessess |
I don't think it is a different discussion. Which players you retain is about what business you can realistically do, not just about the player.
On Wilson's fitness - firstly, the club has a medical department to do assessments of people's fitness, it's not a "random prediction". Secondly, Wilson had no significant injuries at all in 2019-20 and was selected in every matchday squad bar one (he was suspended). At Lincoln he just seems to have dropped out of the first team picture, so don't know what his injury record there was. |
James has had Knee. Ankle. Calf. Groin and hamstring injuries over the past 5 years. And as you say has also had times out of favour or as back up too.
And neither of us know the outcome of the medical teams assessment. They may have felt it wasn't worth the risk based on previous years. Could he not pass our clubs medical tests to pcs liking. This changes with each manager and their personal requirements of players. Intensity etc required.
I just find it bizarre that we kept 17 clean sheets in the season just gone.. yet we have people pining for chambers and wilson who wouldn't suit lcb. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:32 - Jul 5 with 722 views | jayessess |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:57 - Jul 5 by itfcjoe |
He's a bang average L1 CB, but more a head it/kick it type - the sort of player you should be able to grab on a 1-2 year deal on a free transfer.
WOuld be fine as a squad member generally, but we paid a load of money for him, no doubt pay him a lot per week and gave him a 3 year deal - it will hamstring us going forwards |
Feels a bit like we expected to recruit two centre backs at George Edmundson's level for substantial fees and neglected to plan for our top targets not panning out. You look at some of the centre backs that moved on frees to League One last season and there's loads who had better seasons than Burgess (George Johnston - Bolton, Dan Scarr, Macauley Gillesphey - Plymouth, Matthew Pennington - Shrewsbury, Jack Whatmough - Portsmouth) and we weren't really in for that sort of player.
If we were going to let Wilson and Chambers go, we should have planned at least one straightforward signing of that sort (as we have done this year with Greg Leigh I think). | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:39 - Jul 5 with 694 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:32 - Jul 5 by jayessess |
Feels a bit like we expected to recruit two centre backs at George Edmundson's level for substantial fees and neglected to plan for our top targets not panning out. You look at some of the centre backs that moved on frees to League One last season and there's loads who had better seasons than Burgess (George Johnston - Bolton, Dan Scarr, Macauley Gillesphey - Plymouth, Matthew Pennington - Shrewsbury, Jack Whatmough - Portsmouth) and we weren't really in for that sort of player.
If we were going to let Wilson and Chambers go, we should have planned at least one straightforward signing of that sort (as we have done this year with Greg Leigh I think). |
I think you underestimate how much PC rated toto. He himself commented how he was one of the best defenders at the club. I don't think our aim was to get 2 new starting cbs personally. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:48 - Jul 5 with 693 views | jayessess |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:28 - Jul 5 by FrimleyBlue |
James has had Knee. Ankle. Calf. Groin and hamstring injuries over the past 5 years. And as you say has also had times out of favour or as back up too.
And neither of us know the outcome of the medical teams assessment. They may have felt it wasn't worth the risk based on previous years. Could he not pass our clubs medical tests to pcs liking. This changes with each manager and their personal requirements of players. Intensity etc required.
I just find it bizarre that we kept 17 clean sheets in the season just gone.. yet we have people pining for chambers and wilson who wouldn't suit lcb. |
No one is pining for Wilson or Chambers, they're pining for a club that doesn't drop one of the biggest fees paid in the division last year on Cameron Burgess! | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:53 - Jul 5 with 667 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:48 - Jul 5 by jayessess |
No one is pining for Wilson or Chambers, they're pining for a club that doesn't drop one of the biggest fees paid in the division last year on Cameron Burgess! |
A fee no one knows the value of, one the manager was disappointed with and wanted more from.
Ashton already said fees paid were less than reported. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 18:37 - Jul 5 with 627 views | cbower |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 16:39 - Jul 5 by FrimleyBlue |
I think you underestimate how much PC rated toto. He himself commented how he was one of the best defenders at the club. I don't think our aim was to get 2 new starting cbs personally. |
Your last paragraph is simply more evidence of Cook's poor judgement. Toto was a great fella, wholehearted but incredibly limited as a footballer. Uncomfortable with the ball, prone to being dragged out of position and liable to a rash challenge almost every game. I haven't come across many (if any) Town fans who didn't broadly agree with this assessment. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 18:41 - Jul 5 with 610 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 18:37 - Jul 5 by cbower |
Your last paragraph is simply more evidence of Cook's poor judgement. Toto was a great fella, wholehearted but incredibly limited as a footballer. Uncomfortable with the ball, prone to being dragged out of position and liable to a rash challenge almost every game. I haven't come across many (if any) Town fans who didn't broadly agree with this assessment. |
And I agree. However toto was a stopper just like wilson and that's why I feel there was no pressing reason for PC to keep wilson along with the other reasons within this thread.
Either way. Our defence is better off now than it was this time last summer. Imo. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 18:45 - Jul 5 with 609 views | cbower |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 18:41 - Jul 5 by FrimleyBlue |
And I agree. However toto was a stopper just like wilson and that's why I feel there was no pressing reason for PC to keep wilson along with the other reasons within this thread.
Either way. Our defence is better off now than it was this time last summer. Imo. |
Agree with your last sentiment. We are better off but how close were we to losing Wolf? If someone had bid for Janoi we would probably have taken it. Everyone believed taking the option on him was simply trying to recoup a bit of cash. | |
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| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 14:41 - Jul 6 with 508 views | quad |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 14:55 - Jul 5 by Big_Jase |
Being an adequate squad player is subjective, and your opinion. In my opinion he is incredibly lucky to even be back up at a L1 club.
He is weak, always out of position and at best has an average delivery. I would be very surprised if he leaves here, he ends up at another L1 club. For me, comfortably the worst player in our squad. |
Absolutely 100% agree. Just because he gets the occasional good cross in doesn't disguise the fact that he is comfortably the worst player in our squad. Amazes me that some fans have backed him and slated Thompson who at least was quite strong defensively. | | | |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 15:17 - Jul 6 with 474 views | DJR |
| Can't see that Penney has a future at Town on 14:25 - Jul 5 by Garv |
I'm sadly a member of said fan club, but you can't label perfectly adequate players as awful or pony and not expect to see some objection.
He's clearly not awful. I agree he was bad at Plymouth and he made a poor error, but I would argue that was a fairly isolated incident. Walton had a howler at Sunderland, it happens.
I liken Penney to Cresswell a bit when he arrived, obviously not the same quality but both quite good technically and could cross, but both weren't or aren't very physical and can be found out defensively. Cresswell had a spell of getting done at the far post at one stage. Just an example - I don't expect Penney to end up in the PL.
If the two incoming LBs, potentially, prove to be an upgrade then obviously I'm all for it. Just think MP gets a rough ride. [Post edited 5 Jul 2022 14:29]
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I'm with you on that. He's actually played a number of games in the Championship, so I don't think he can that bad. I think the goals at Plymouth have been amplified, but I am not sure he made an error as no player is ever able to cut out every cross, and he is only 5ft 8. I feel we were a better attacking force down the left with him than without him, and his crossing is good. This isn't to say that he will be first or second choice, but he could have a role as a squad player for when we suffer injuries or suspensions, as we undoubtedly will, and he is presumably fairly cheap. [Post edited 6 Jul 2022 15:19]
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