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Was having a good rant, pointing out the damage the Brexit voters had delivered to our businesses, economy, rights to live in the EU etc.
Also laughed at his suggestion that Boris was anything other than a self serving tosser and that his party had tolerated his lies when they thought they could still win with him in charge.
To counter, he pointed out to me how most people start on the left of politics and over their life time drift to the right, something I know to be true for many. He said it was a matter of time but I'd get their eventually.
I said not all drift to the right, I was clinging to my principles and remain a lefty, to which he countered I am "just a late developer"
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 20:20 - Sep 4 by chicoazul
Sorry bubalah. One never knows on here! As an interesting aside on your earlier point did you now there are now something like 6.5m foreign born workers in the UK? The number of EU has gone down slightly but the number of non EU has jumped. Nearly 1 in 5 of the workforce were born outside the UK.
It was always going to be the case that exiting the EU wouldn't make any difference to those arriving from elsewhere though.
How anyone thought leaving the union would stop all immigration made no sense.
The figure you quote there shows how much foreign employees are needed to support the economy I guess.
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 22:43 - Sep 4 by jeera
Hadn't seen this, sorry.
No worries.
To be fair, I recall GB approvingly predicting this outcome back in 2016 (possibly wrong re the date).
Hardeep Mattharu has written a couple of excellent articles on Byline Times explaining why many 1st generation British Asians voted to quit - more chance for Commonwealth/ Empire immigration.
Either way - in or out of the EU - the UK needs immigration to survive.
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I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 00:06 - Sep 5 with 910 views
I personally think it is a myth and a consequence of the "Golden" and "Boomer" generations ageing.
Gen Xers won't go Right.
The Tory demographic timebomb is going to explode soon. They will lose their core vote (people who can be guaranteed to turn out and vote at every election, including Local Elections) and the majority of their members over the next ten years.
In order to suck up to them the Cameron, May and Johnson Government's have done things which Gen X, Millennials and Gen Z won't forgive for a very long time.
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I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 00:07 - Sep 5 with 905 views
Not sure about that. In my experience people drift more to the left as they get older. I’ve always been in the middle, very socially liberal and economically lean to the right, which means both sides disagree with me in some circles. Makes dinner parties more fun if nothing else. Freely admit that on a macro level I’ve gone more to the center right since the pandemic though, after seeing what more government in our lives actually achieves. I don’t particularly like many politicians in general, although this board is rather absorbed by them (even when are are top of the league!).
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 00:06 - Sep 5 by ArnoldMoorhen
I personally think it is a myth and a consequence of the "Golden" and "Boomer" generations ageing.
Gen Xers won't go Right.
The Tory demographic timebomb is going to explode soon. They will lose their core vote (people who can be guaranteed to turn out and vote at every election, including Local Elections) and the majority of their members over the next ten years.
In order to suck up to them the Cameron, May and Johnson Government's have done things which Gen X, Millennials and Gen Z won't forgive for a very long time.
Agree 100% that Gen Xers won’t go right. Even growing up in Tory Blue Suffolk and being too young to really know what was going on as kids in the 80s - we knew that Thatcher stood for something wrong and it’s hard wired to have this negative response to the idea of voting Tory.
But, I think I also speak for a lot of Gen Xers in saying that Labour historically isn’t especially appealing - other than (and I hate to say it given the old war crimes stuff in his second term) Blair. After all, it was the 97 election when pretty much all of Gen X were allowed to vote (I missed out on 92 by 6 days).
The whole issue with right versus left is it’s just too entrenched in ideologies that aren’t flexible enough for modern society. Of course we want a thriving economy, but one with low unemployment and a minimum wage that is well above a living wage. We also want a welfare safety net and a health service that’s free to help those in need. If we’re being picky, a government that takes climate change seriously and is prepared to invest in renewable energy. These things shouldn’t be mutually exclusive. And if we really must be cutting taxes - then let’s prioritise those on low to middle incomes rather than large corporates and the wealthy,
I realise that’s all naively simplistic and reductive.
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I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 01:48 - Sep 5 with 847 views
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 01:01 - Sep 5 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
Not sure about that. In my experience people drift more to the left as they get older. I’ve always been in the middle, very socially liberal and economically lean to the right, which means both sides disagree with me in some circles. Makes dinner parties more fun if nothing else. Freely admit that on a macro level I’ve gone more to the center right since the pandemic though, after seeing what more government in our lives actually achieves. I don’t particularly like many politicians in general, although this board is rather absorbed by them (even when are are top of the league!).
Get a therapist.
You're in that deep.
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I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 02:15 - Sep 5 with 835 views
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 01:48 - Sep 5 by XYZ
Get a therapist.
You're in that deep.
LOL
What because I said an honest opinion on a heavily left forum I need to see someone for a chat? Leaning to the right economically or being social liberal means I need to go and seek psychiatric help? You’re not on of those anti abortion types are you? Was it that bit you didn’t like?
This is also a bit rich coming from someone who is part of a community of posters who spend every single working day posting angrily on thread after thread about politics. Just look at the active threads now. So I think I’ll be ok mate!
Believing in limited government isn’t exactly a highly controversial take in the West. Sorry if I offended you though….!
[Post edited 5 Sep 2022 2:55]
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I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 05:05 - Sep 5 with 775 views
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 19:50 - Sep 4 by Bugs
If anything my views have moved further to the left, (due to better political understanding) as I have gotten older.
Likewise. Am a family rebel. Both parents & my late bro always voted Con (back then in commuterbelt Surrey, my Dad was a self-made businessman who started from scratch as an immigrant), tho I did have the moderating influence of my maternal aunt in London & her lovely husband, who were both staunch Labourites.
Always voted Labour myself, with occasional tactical diversions into LD (or Green, which would be my vote of choice if it stood any chance of actually counting) - but the last 12 years have pushed me from centre-left into #RevolutionNow mode in my 70s!
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 01:33 - Sep 5 by IPS_wich
Agree 100% that Gen Xers won’t go right. Even growing up in Tory Blue Suffolk and being too young to really know what was going on as kids in the 80s - we knew that Thatcher stood for something wrong and it’s hard wired to have this negative response to the idea of voting Tory.
But, I think I also speak for a lot of Gen Xers in saying that Labour historically isn’t especially appealing - other than (and I hate to say it given the old war crimes stuff in his second term) Blair. After all, it was the 97 election when pretty much all of Gen X were allowed to vote (I missed out on 92 by 6 days).
The whole issue with right versus left is it’s just too entrenched in ideologies that aren’t flexible enough for modern society. Of course we want a thriving economy, but one with low unemployment and a minimum wage that is well above a living wage. We also want a welfare safety net and a health service that’s free to help those in need. If we’re being picky, a government that takes climate change seriously and is prepared to invest in renewable energy. These things shouldn’t be mutually exclusive. And if we really must be cutting taxes - then let’s prioritise those on low to middle incomes rather than large corporates and the wealthy,
I realise that’s all naively simplistic and reductive.
"If we’re being picky, a government that takes climate change seriously and is prepared to invest in renewable energy"
That shouldn't come towards the end of your list & be deemed "picky" - it should be at the very top & regarded as the first & foremost major requirement.
If it's not treated like that, L v R politics will uncomfortably soon become a complete irrelevance while we literally struggle to survive with our heads above water & enough food to eat. Pakistan right now, not to mention the ever-increasing out-of-control wildfires everywhere, are warnings a horrible number of "leading" (I wish they were, properly) politicians worldwide are ignoring.
The whole ‘culture wars’ thing has been successful in that it’s now less about economic ideology, and more about social views (liberal v socially conservative). Hence why you have red wall voters who traditionally voted for economically left(ish) politicians now voting for the Tories. See also MAGA in the US.
Damn I sound like Chico!
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I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 08:57 - Sep 5 with 668 views
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 00:06 - Sep 5 by ArnoldMoorhen
I personally think it is a myth and a consequence of the "Golden" and "Boomer" generations ageing.
Gen Xers won't go Right.
The Tory demographic timebomb is going to explode soon. They will lose their core vote (people who can be guaranteed to turn out and vote at every election, including Local Elections) and the majority of their members over the next ten years.
In order to suck up to them the Cameron, May and Johnson Government's have done things which Gen X, Millennials and Gen Z won't forgive for a very long time.
I was wondering that, principally down to Maggie’s promotion of selfishness and those still remembering the 70s and especially the winter of discontent. If it is though, you’d think they’d be sensitive to a repeat and want to avoid it. Maybe throw in entrenched positions, susceptibility to a Tory-favourable press and some of the Boomers aren’t for turning. Many still remain hippies at heart though, thankfully.
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 09:07 - Sep 5 by Swansea_Blue
I was wondering that, principally down to Maggie’s promotion of selfishness and those still remembering the 70s and especially the winter of discontent. If it is though, you’d think they’d be sensitive to a repeat and want to avoid it. Maybe throw in entrenched positions, susceptibility to a Tory-favourable press and some of the Boomers aren’t for turning. Many still remain hippies at heart though, thankfully.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 05:05 - Sep 5 by Ryorry
Likewise. Am a family rebel. Both parents & my late bro always voted Con (back then in commuterbelt Surrey, my Dad was a self-made businessman who started from scratch as an immigrant), tho I did have the moderating influence of my maternal aunt in London & her lovely husband, who were both staunch Labourites.
Always voted Labour myself, with occasional tactical diversions into LD (or Green, which would be my vote of choice if it stood any chance of actually counting) - but the last 12 years have pushed me from centre-left into #RevolutionNow mode in my 70s!
[Post edited 5 Sep 2022 5:06]
I think a lot of us who voted Blair believed it was the only way to get the Tories out. Looking back at how fragile his "reforms" turned out to be, we've gone further left.
There will probably remain a rump that does well out of Thatcher/Blairism, but doesn't like its illiberal side/consequences and will wring its hands over people getting really poor because of it. This is who Keir Starmer exists for.
Me, I'm literally a communist these days.
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I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 09:38 - Sep 5 with 573 views
I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 09:07 - Sep 5 by Swansea_Blue
I was wondering that, principally down to Maggie’s promotion of selfishness and those still remembering the 70s and especially the winter of discontent. If it is though, you’d think they’d be sensitive to a repeat and want to avoid it. Maybe throw in entrenched positions, susceptibility to a Tory-favourable press and some of the Boomers aren’t for turning. Many still remain hippies at heart though, thankfully.
Of course any "generational theory" is very broad brush strokes, and individuals will vary massively within each cohort. David Attenborough is a member of the Golden Generation, Katie Hopkins is a Gen Xer.
But, in broad brush terms, the Golden Generation (remember WW2) are susceptible to messaging that emphasises duty, patriotism and service, and Boomers are much more about short term self interest.
Gen X (of which I am a part) is the generation defined by fear (from Charley says don't go near a puddle, through every plastic bag is a bomb, through "What would you do if the 2 minute warning went off?", to "Don't have sex: AIDS!") We grew up with an awareness of the impending ecological crisis (although it was all about "Acid Rain" when I was at school). As we have become parents our anxiety has led to "helicopter parenting". We are aware that we are the first generation in a while who will be poorer than our parents, and are concerned about the mess we are leaving for our kids, who we desperately want to like us.
That's a pastiche, but, basically, Gen Xers worry more than Boomers, think about things more, and are more likely to see themselves as "global citizens" with global responsibilities.
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I got proper owned by a Brexiteer today on 09:41 - Sep 5 with 570 views
Well I was born in 1980, apparently a grey area between Gen-X and Millennial, if I'm allowed to self ID then I will claim Gen-X.
I was a Thatcherite before I even made it to high school so hard to see how I might drift further right. If anything I've become less authoritarian and more libertarian as I've concluded that governments of all colours tend to turn anything they touch into crap.
Seems to be lots of confusion these days on the definition of 'left-right' or at least over peoples understanding. Supporter of Brexit? Must be right wing. In favour of diversity? Looney left. Not really though.
But it's hardly surprising that an individuals priorities change when they become financially self-reliant and own property.
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