| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery 08:32 - Sep 7 with 3220 views | Bury_St_Edmundson |
Are you in favour or anti?
apart from the obvious "if we're winning then it's fine" mentality
It's the one thing about the modern game that really makes me dislike football (that and chronic over-simulation of course)
Do we keep it and admit it's part of the game?
or do we stamp down on it? if so, how? |  | | |  |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 08:35 - Sep 7 with 2322 views | Dubtractor |
Massively against.
A little bit of in play time wasting, like the keeper slowing it down, or keeping ball by the corner flag, I'm fine with that. The stuff we've seen from the likes of Oxford and Accrington in recent years though can do one. |  |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 08:37 - Sep 7 with 2307 views | Bury_St_Edmundson |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 08:35 - Sep 7 by Dubtractor |
Massively against.
A little bit of in play time wasting, like the keeper slowing it down, or keeping ball by the corner flag, I'm fine with that. The stuff we've seen from the likes of Oxford and Accrington in recent years though can do one. |
What about Pickford and his lying on the ground for 5 mins, in the opening 10 mins style? | | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 08:38 - Sep 7 with 2299 views | BseaBlue |
With records constantly being broken for 'least amount of time the ball is in play' it really feels like the game management aspect has taken to another level in recent times.
Regardless of winning and losing, its the supporters that ultimately suffer. I would be very suprised if there isn't some changes with regards to stoppage time/stopping the clock in the near future. Something needs to happen. |  | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 08:42 - Sep 7 with 2279 views | ZXBlue |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 08:38 - Sep 7 by BseaBlue |
With records constantly being broken for 'least amount of time the ball is in play' it really feels like the game management aspect has taken to another level in recent times.
Regardless of winning and losing, its the supporters that ultimately suffer. I would be very suprised if there isn't some changes with regards to stoppage time/stopping the clock in the near future. Something needs to happen. |
All that needs to happen is that refs get strict with it. Game is not supposed to stop for injuries unless serious or head injury. Its that simple. Messing with clocks and adding stupid amounts of time does not help the spectacle, or the impact that deliberate stoppages have on momentum, pace of the game etc |  | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:06 - Sep 7 with 2196 views | Ftnfwest |
Use VAR to punish it, which is what i thought it might at least do.
Below the Prem make sure plenty of time gets added on.
I only like it when Norwood does it but then he's almost mocking himself over it (and gets away with it most of the time!). |  | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:12 - Sep 7 with 2179 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Massively anti, but we've got to be better at it ourselves in this league, and as fans we'll have to accept it for the time being.
If we don't, we'll end up being sh^thoused out of the promotion spots by other teams. |  |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:14 - Sep 7 with 2168 views | Darth_Koont |
Probably impossible for the ref to do too much about it. If a player goes down injured or "injured" they still have to make the same decision.
But time wasting should be something you can spot in retrospective analysis of games and a team's pattern of behaviour. So the football authorities could help stamp it out there, especially with points deductions towards the end of the season if teams have strayed well beyond the guidelines. |  |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:32 - Sep 7 with 2125 views | blueislander |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:12 - Sep 7 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Massively anti, but we've got to be better at it ourselves in this league, and as fans we'll have to accept it for the time being.
If we don't, we'll end up being sh^thoused out of the promotion spots by other teams. |
McKenna has stated that fans pay to see football hasn’t he? On that basis you would like to think that his teams would not indulge in it. Having said that we often take a long time to get the ball in play from a throw in. | | | |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:39 - Sep 7 with 2106 views | itfcjoe |
Massively hate it, and I love the way we kill time and kill games is in possession of the ball and just running the opposition around. I'd hate to watch us play like that.
I can accept there will always be an element of time wasting but it gets beyond the pail - the physio was on 6 or 7 times in the Barnsley game; each one leads to a break where they all drift over to the bench and takes ages to restart.
The cheats will always be one step ahead, but you have to try and catch them all the time.
For me I'd ban teamtalks, players going to sidelines when physios are on - it can't be used as an impromtu team talk from management team.
At some point football will need to go 'real time' with time limits to get the ball back into play etc as it needs to be an entertainment product to keep the money rolling in |  |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:40 - Sep 7 with 2099 views | MattinLondon |
The easiest solution is also the most simple. An independent timekeeper who stops the clock when the ball isn’t in play. Initially some matches might not finish until 17:30 but players will soon learn that time wasting is pointless. |  | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:44 - Sep 7 with 2095 views | Dyland |
I really don't like it, whoever it is. Couldn't stand Garner e.g. always going down, touching his head and looking at his hand as if he's expecting to see blood.
Simulation and time wasting and sh1te officiating have been ruining games at PR for ages. It winds me up so much. Hate it. |  |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 10:25 - Sep 7 with 2034 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:32 - Sep 7 by blueislander |
McKenna has stated that fans pay to see football hasn’t he? On that basis you would like to think that his teams would not indulge in it. Having said that we often take a long time to get the ball in play from a throw in. |
Well there was some serious shi?housing from our fans against Burton when the ball went into the crowd with 5 to play. We didn’t seem too keen on watching football then. | |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 10:46 - Sep 7 with 1991 views | Radlett_blue |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:14 - Sep 7 by Darth_Koont |
Probably impossible for the ref to do too much about it. If a player goes down injured or "injured" they still have to make the same decision.
But time wasting should be something you can spot in retrospective analysis of games and a team's pattern of behaviour. So the football authorities could help stamp it out there, especially with points deductions towards the end of the season if teams have strayed well beyond the guidelines. |
Referees don't need to stop the game if a player is lying on the ground. 99% of the time, no further damage will be done if the player remains there for a minute or so until the ball goes out of play. Yes, the new tendency to fake head injuries is a near insoluble problem. |  |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 11:56 - Sep 7 with 1927 views | MattinLondon |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 10:25 - Sep 7 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Well there was some serious shi?housing from our fans against Burton when the ball went into the crowd with 5 to play. We didn’t seem too keen on watching football then. |
Anyone would think that football is full of hypocrisy. | | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 12:11 - Sep 7 with 1905 views | Darth_Koont |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 10:46 - Sep 7 by Radlett_blue |
Referees don't need to stop the game if a player is lying on the ground. 99% of the time, no further damage will be done if the player remains there for a minute or so until the ball goes out of play. Yes, the new tendency to fake head injuries is a near insoluble problem. |
But you should be able to see outliers over 30 or 40 games. If teams and/or individual players show a pattern over that period then they could be sanctioned. Not just fake head injuries but time to take throw-ins and free-kicks, kicking balls away, goalkeepers taking 30 seconds to get rid of the ball mainly because they’ve thrown themselves to the ground first etc
There’s so much data collected (match and player performance) on even League One games that a lot of this might already be recorded. | |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 12:15 - Sep 7 with 1895 views | BondiBlue |
Cheating bad. Tackling good. As long as a good meaty tackle isn't included under the s**thousery banner, then i'm against s**thousery.
Last season i was grudgingly congratulated as being the "best tackler i've ever seen" by one opponent and "the biggest s**thouse i've ever seen" by another. The admirer of tackling was english, the whiny little s**thouse accuser australian. Different culture. | |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 12:16 - Sep 7 with 1887 views | Radlett_blue |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 12:11 - Sep 7 by Darth_Koont |
But you should be able to see outliers over 30 or 40 games. If teams and/or individual players show a pattern over that period then they could be sanctioned. Not just fake head injuries but time to take throw-ins and free-kicks, kicking balls away, goalkeepers taking 30 seconds to get rid of the ball mainly because they’ve thrown themselves to the ground first etc
There’s so much data collected (match and player performance) on even League One games that a lot of this might already be recorded. |
That's practically impossible & highly subjective. The only way this will change is if referees are instructed to get tougher e.g. start enforcing the 6 second rule for goalkeepers (they already bend this rule by dropping to their knees after taking a routine catch.It would help if there was a sin bin & then goalkeepers might stop taking 30 seconds over every goal kick if they knew they might be binned for 10 minutes.
kicking the ball away of delaying a free kick is already supposed to be an automatic yellow - please start enforcing this. | |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 12:45 - Sep 7 with 1829 views | Darth_Koont |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 12:16 - Sep 7 by Radlett_blue |
That's practically impossible & highly subjective. The only way this will change is if referees are instructed to get tougher e.g. start enforcing the 6 second rule for goalkeepers (they already bend this rule by dropping to their knees after taking a routine catch.It would help if there was a sin bin & then goalkeepers might stop taking 30 seconds over every goal kick if they knew they might be binned for 10 minutes.
kicking the ball away of delaying a free kick is already supposed to be an automatic yellow - please start enforcing this. |
It is very subjective. But that’s why it needs much more data over 30-40 games to see genuine patterns. In the same way, patterns reveal cheats at casinos not someone’s call on an individual bet.
If you see that a team takes over two or three times longer to take goal and free kicks when leading in the last quarter of a game then you can start to see who the biggest culprits are. Might even up the league a little too if the smaller sides aren’t so often on the end of time wasting and being cheated from getting back into games. | |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 12:46 - Sep 7 with 1829 views | SheffordBlue |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 10:46 - Sep 7 by Radlett_blue |
Referees don't need to stop the game if a player is lying on the ground. 99% of the time, no further damage will be done if the player remains there for a minute or so until the ball goes out of play. Yes, the new tendency to fake head injuries is a near insoluble problem. |
I would adopt the same approach as rugby. Physio allowed on to conduct treatment whilst play continues. I've seen people argue that rugby is slower than football and therefore makes this easier to do but I'm really not convinced that modern rugby is. Play goes on around the physio conducting treatment without too many issues. In situations where a player is seriously injured the game is quickly stopped.
I've also seen people argue that it would just lead to keepers being the ones feigning injury but I'd just apply the same approach. If you're keeper gets a genuine injury that requires treatment then unlucky - just keep the ball away from your goal until he's treated or a sub is made! | |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 13:04 - Sep 7 with 1802 views | BigCommon |
I don't like it. And I don't like the way it's dressed up as "game management" either..
But it's here to stay, unfortunately. And teams with less resources in any division, will do what they can, to get what they can out of a game. And you can't really be too harsh on them, imo.
I can think of a few games last season, where five minutes of "game management", would have seen us more points..
The flip side, MK tried to play against us and got tonked 3-0.
Looking at our signings this season. And the physicality of some of them. Imo, there's an element of "we'll sh1thouse you if we need to", about them. And there'll be games where we need to. So you might as well have that in your armory...
Like I say, I don't particularly like that side of the game. But I think that it's just part and parcel. Especially in games where you don't get your noses in front. You'll always be susceptible to a bit of "gamemanship".. (Another phrase I hate as an excuse for cheating).
And it's not just limited to lower divisions. As the stakes get higher, further up the pyramid. They'll be plenty of it to come I'm sure. |  | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 13:28 - Sep 7 with 1755 views | Radlett_blue |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 13:04 - Sep 7 by BigCommon |
I don't like it. And I don't like the way it's dressed up as "game management" either..
But it's here to stay, unfortunately. And teams with less resources in any division, will do what they can, to get what they can out of a game. And you can't really be too harsh on them, imo.
I can think of a few games last season, where five minutes of "game management", would have seen us more points..
The flip side, MK tried to play against us and got tonked 3-0.
Looking at our signings this season. And the physicality of some of them. Imo, there's an element of "we'll sh1thouse you if we need to", about them. And there'll be games where we need to. So you might as well have that in your armory...
Like I say, I don't particularly like that side of the game. But I think that it's just part and parcel. Especially in games where you don't get your noses in front. You'll always be susceptible to a bit of "gamemanship".. (Another phrase I hate as an excuse for cheating).
And it's not just limited to lower divisions. As the stakes get higher, further up the pyramid. They'll be plenty of it to come I'm sure. |
Indeed, it's by no means confined to the less able teams in the 3rd tier of English football. I generally enjoy the Champions' League k/o stages, but the last 20 minutes or so of a tight 2nd leg can become near unwatchable, as players endlessly go down at the slightest touch & start rolling around on the floor ground. | |
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| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 13:40 - Sep 7 with 1733 views | Vaughan8 |
I'm sure its got worse recently. You can understand it with 10 mins to go etc.
Some teams do it from the start!
The only real way to stop it is to stop the watch when the ball goes out of play/player injured etc. They must be able to get an "average time the ball is in play" and then do that.
I'm sure some will come up with other ways to do it, but i think that is the only effective and quick way to stop it. | | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 13:42 - Sep 7 with 1726 views | Tractor_Thief |
Against it.
I would be in favour of the clock stopping whenever the ball is out of play. Thrown-ins, goal kicks, injured players, substitutions etc. The match then runs for say 60 minutes of ball-in-play time. |  | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 14:45 - Sep 7 with 1629 views | burnbudgiesburn |
I'm in favour of game management - controlling the ball, keeping the play in the corner etc.
Let's not pretend we don't have someone very good at sh1thousery that flies under the radar a bit - Lee Evans
The amount of times he cons or attempts to con the referee into believing he has been fouled is amazing. A lot of the time he does this when he's slightly late to a tackle or the oppo player is 60/40 to win it but buys a freekick. | | | |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 16:00 - Sep 7 with 1541 views | CopfordBlue |
| Time wasting/Dark Arts/Sh1thousery on 09:40 - Sep 7 by MattinLondon |
The easiest solution is also the most simple. An independent timekeeper who stops the clock when the ball isn’t in play. Initially some matches might not finish until 17:30 but players will soon learn that time wasting is pointless. |
It would help and I would like to see it introduced but it’s not just about running the clock down, it’s also done to break up play and stop teams getting into a rhythm. So many games at PR in the past 3 seasons, particularly the second halves, haven’t really got going. It’s so frustrating and kills the enjoyment. | |
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