| What has/does TWTD make 09:51 - Oct 23 with 18045 views | chicoazul |
…of Morsy not wearing the rainbow armband on Friday? |  |
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| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:15 - Oct 23 with 2137 views | chicoazul |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:14 - Oct 23 by noggin |
Ok, what would you expect to happen? |
Be more precise. Expect to happen if he says it’s nothing to do with the fans, for instance? | |
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| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:27 - Oct 23 with 2116 views | noggin |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:15 - Oct 23 by chicoazul |
Be more precise. Expect to happen if he says it’s nothing to do with the fans, for instance? |
Yes. Or the tiny number of fans that are bothered by it. [Post edited 23 Oct 2022 16:28]
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| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:35 - Oct 23 with 2097 views | chicoazul |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:27 - Oct 23 by noggin |
Yes. Or the tiny number of fans that are bothered by it. [Post edited 23 Oct 2022 16:28]
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If it’s tiny does that mean it’s irrelevant? | |
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| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:41 - Oct 23 with 2083 views | J2BLUE |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:09 - Oct 23 by chicoazul |
Very interesting to see some people think it doesn’t matter or that we shouldn’t even be asking him or the club, or even discussing this at all. |
Don't pretend you actually care about the cause. You just love stirring and seem happiest when you get to bang on about the banter era when things go badly.
If it was deliberate then we can be pretty sure what the cause was. You want to blow this issue up and damage the club. He has not actively spoken out against anything and has kept quiet. |  |
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| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:43 - Oct 23 with 2075 views | noggin |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:35 - Oct 23 by chicoazul |
If it’s tiny does that mean it’s irrelevant? |
Clearly not to you. However, neither Morsy or the club are obliged to give you an answer. | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 16:43 - Oct 23 with 2078 views | ITFC_1988 |
| What has/does TWTD make on 10:14 - Oct 23 by itfcjoe |
If it is because of religious beliefs then I’m dead against it, as gives someone a free pass to allow a section of society to be discriminated against
I’d hope it’s just an oversight, if any more than that then it reflects badly on him and the club. When someone like Idrissa Gueye refused to wear a rainbow number on his shirt, anyone who supported him was dragged across the coals for it |
Absolute nonsense. Not wearing an armband does not equal discrimination of any sort. |  | | |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:54 - Oct 23 with 2033 views | chicoazul |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:41 - Oct 23 by J2BLUE |
Don't pretend you actually care about the cause. You just love stirring and seem happiest when you get to bang on about the banter era when things go badly.
If it was deliberate then we can be pretty sure what the cause was. You want to blow this issue up and damage the club. He has not actively spoken out against anything and has kept quiet. |
Sorry but however discomforting or irrelevant you find it, it’s an interesting story. I can’t help what you think about me by the way. Fwiw I don’t think about you at all. | |
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| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 17:14 - Oct 23 with 1998 views | J2BLUE |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:54 - Oct 23 by chicoazul |
Sorry but however discomforting or irrelevant you find it, it’s an interesting story. I can’t help what you think about me by the way. Fwiw I don’t think about you at all. |
I take it you will be asking him privately to satisfy your interest and won't be making a big deal of it? | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 20:21 - Oct 23 with 1882 views | BlueBadger |
| What has/does TWTD make on 14:55 - Oct 23 by chicoazul |
If you’d care to read the thread title (it’s at the top) you’ll see I’m interested in what TWTD thinks. I haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon will.
You’re dumb. |
JAQing off, are we Chickers? |  |
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| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 20:30 - Oct 23 with 1862 views | chicoazul |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 17:14 - Oct 23 by J2BLUE |
I take it you will be asking him privately to satisfy your interest and won't be making a big deal of it? |
Oh yeah you know next time I see him in the pub or Milsoms I’ll be sure to ask him 🙄 | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 20:39 - Oct 23 with 1839 views | bradforblues |
| What has/does TWTD make on 10:42 - Oct 23 by RobTheMonk |
His decision if he wants to or not. Same with taking the knee or wearing the poppy.
So many people looking for excuses to be offended. Forcing people to follow an agenda, movement, raising awareness etc has become way to prevalent in society. What happened to having a choice?
For the record, I think the rainbow band, laces is a good idea. But if someone doesn't want to wear one? Meh, their choice. |
Exactly. Who are we to tell someone what they should or should not be wearing. If someone were to tell any of us what to wear I know what I’d tell them!! | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 20:52 - Oct 23 with 1797 views | BlueBadger |
| What has/does TWTD make on 12:04 - Oct 23 by waveneyblue |
This is spot on.
And couldn't agree more that the ones who play the tolerance card the most, are usually the worst.
There are many examples of this on here. |
Ah, the old 'calling out bigotry makes you bad person' fallacy.
Never change, Pazzers. [Post edited 23 Oct 2022 21:33]
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| What has/does TWTD make on 00:06 - Oct 24 with 1696 views | backinbeige |
Extremely disappointing.
It costs nothing to wear it, indeed it’s probably more effort to argue to the person handing them out why you don’t want to.
As a straight man I don’t know how much LGBTQ+ fans take from the players wearing rainbow armbands and laces, but they probably take a lot more from their hero refusing to wear one.
If the objection is on religious beliefs then surely, with attitudes having changed so much in the last 10-20 years, we can now expect people to say “I am deeply committed to my faith but I can accept that we haven’t always gotten it right and I disagree with my religion’s teachings in some areas”. |  |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 00:16 - Oct 24 with 1688 views | BondiBlue |
| What has/does TWTD make on 12:31 - Oct 23 by blustutu |
Personally I feel if he didn’t want to wear it someone else should have been captain for the game, he’s entitled to his opinion but it reflects on us as a club. |
This is an excellent idea. I respect that he has a personal opinion but it was obviously a league/club decision to go with the rainbow armband for that weekend, not each individual captain on a whatsapp chat. If your personal beliefs clash with the values of the club, the club needs a new representative for that round.
See also this absolute binfire of a story from over here a few months back: https://www.sportingnews.com/au/rugby-league/news/nrl-manly-sea-eagles-pride-jer | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 00:34 - Oct 24 with 1675 views | backinbeige |
I’m still reeling from a number of comments in this thread.
“It’s his choice”
“I don’t care”
“It doesn’t matter”
When I saw the subject I assumed the response would be in universal support of any initiative around inclusivity. Not the opposite.
It does matter, you should care and while it is his choice, you would be alarmed at anyone let alone the club captain going out of their way not to lend their support to an initiative like this.
Religion is hugely important in many people’s lives. It shapes our beliefs, values, views and morals. But if your religion is intolerant towards homosexuality; when faced with an impossible choice where you’re going to make someone cross, why would you choose to support the institution with the problematic views and not the people striving for some kind of parity.
To anyone who thinks this isn’t their problem:
Remind yourself why we have this initiative. Gay people don’t choose to be gay. We (society) have previously decided that’s their flaw. Decided that they should be mocked, subjects of abuse and not welcome. This isn’t a level playing field.
Attitudes are now changing, but they’re not changing by themselves. We need to challenge views and to go out of our way to show everyone that they are welcome. Yes the armband is tokenistic, it is virtue signalling. But we need these signals. We need conversations. We need shows of solidarity. It’s with these shows of solidarity that we increase the speed of change.
Groups such as the Rainbow Tractors don’t exist because there is no need. There is a need.
If you are religious and someone has refused to support your religion’s stance against homosexuality, you can (hopefully) understand how this might have happened. If you are a gay Ipswich fan, and someone has actively gone out of their way to shun you, when you might have lived experience and personal experience of bullying/abuse/just the relentless drudgery of having to come out every time you have a conversation with someone new, that show of rejection must be extremely upsetting.
To anyone who feels this is nothing to do with you, or someone else’s choice and not your problem, I would encourage you to challenge their views and challenge your own. [Post edited 24 Oct 2022 0:39]
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| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 00:44 - Oct 24 with 1654 views | backinbeige |
| "haven’t posted any of my own feelings or theories so far although I soon on 16:27 - Oct 23 by noggin |
Yes. Or the tiny number of fans that are bothered by it. [Post edited 23 Oct 2022 16:28]
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Add me to your list. I’m bothered by it. | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 03:07 - Oct 24 with 1628 views | Bluearmy71 |
| What has/does TWTD make on 00:34 - Oct 24 by backinbeige |
I’m still reeling from a number of comments in this thread.
“It’s his choice”
“I don’t care”
“It doesn’t matter”
When I saw the subject I assumed the response would be in universal support of any initiative around inclusivity. Not the opposite.
It does matter, you should care and while it is his choice, you would be alarmed at anyone let alone the club captain going out of their way not to lend their support to an initiative like this.
Religion is hugely important in many people’s lives. It shapes our beliefs, values, views and morals. But if your religion is intolerant towards homosexuality; when faced with an impossible choice where you’re going to make someone cross, why would you choose to support the institution with the problematic views and not the people striving for some kind of parity.
To anyone who thinks this isn’t their problem:
Remind yourself why we have this initiative. Gay people don’t choose to be gay. We (society) have previously decided that’s their flaw. Decided that they should be mocked, subjects of abuse and not welcome. This isn’t a level playing field.
Attitudes are now changing, but they’re not changing by themselves. We need to challenge views and to go out of our way to show everyone that they are welcome. Yes the armband is tokenistic, it is virtue signalling. But we need these signals. We need conversations. We need shows of solidarity. It’s with these shows of solidarity that we increase the speed of change.
Groups such as the Rainbow Tractors don’t exist because there is no need. There is a need.
If you are religious and someone has refused to support your religion’s stance against homosexuality, you can (hopefully) understand how this might have happened. If you are a gay Ipswich fan, and someone has actively gone out of their way to shun you, when you might have lived experience and personal experience of bullying/abuse/just the relentless drudgery of having to come out every time you have a conversation with someone new, that show of rejection must be extremely upsetting.
To anyone who feels this is nothing to do with you, or someone else’s choice and not your problem, I would encourage you to challenge their views and challenge your own. [Post edited 24 Oct 2022 0:39]
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Persecution is and has been prevalent for decades in all walks of life not just the gay community, its not right or acceptable but it is there and until the last seeds of any form of hate are stopped from being handed down to younger generations it never will stop, its 2022 and you expect hatred and discrimination to stop quickly or the stopping of it to move at a faster pace?? I'm afraid not because for every person whom is educated enough to see what is wrong in this world there is a person being educated that their wrong is right!!
Religion is an evil that causes more war and musters up more hatred in this world than any other body out there, unfortunately its a monster that never will be stopped!!
You say you didn't choose to be gay and people should be understanding of that fact How much choice do you think any child born into a Muslim family gets?? How much choice does a child get born into a family of hardcore racists?? How much choice does a child get born into a family of homophobic's ?? Its instilled into them from birth that this is the way they see life (this is what I mean by eliminating every seed sown) they have had as much choice as you in how their life has gone, I in no way mean you any disrespect but do you not think you should be a little more understanding of these facts?? Yes as adults they have a choice but moving away from what you have know all your life isn't easy for any individual, the conflict of going against everything you've believed in all your life, everything you are!!
I long for the day when we do have a peaceful world and acceptance of everyone that society discriminates and victimises against but while humans as we know them exist I fear its an impossibility!!
Be who you are, love who you love and don't let any fecker spoil your happiness!! |  | | |
| What has/does TWTD make on 03:15 - Oct 24 with 1624 views | BondiBlue |
| What has/does TWTD make on 03:07 - Oct 24 by Bluearmy71 |
Persecution is and has been prevalent for decades in all walks of life not just the gay community, its not right or acceptable but it is there and until the last seeds of any form of hate are stopped from being handed down to younger generations it never will stop, its 2022 and you expect hatred and discrimination to stop quickly or the stopping of it to move at a faster pace?? I'm afraid not because for every person whom is educated enough to see what is wrong in this world there is a person being educated that their wrong is right!!
Religion is an evil that causes more war and musters up more hatred in this world than any other body out there, unfortunately its a monster that never will be stopped!!
You say you didn't choose to be gay and people should be understanding of that fact How much choice do you think any child born into a Muslim family gets?? How much choice does a child get born into a family of hardcore racists?? How much choice does a child get born into a family of homophobic's ?? Its instilled into them from birth that this is the way they see life (this is what I mean by eliminating every seed sown) they have had as much choice as you in how their life has gone, I in no way mean you any disrespect but do you not think you should be a little more understanding of these facts?? Yes as adults they have a choice but moving away from what you have know all your life isn't easy for any individual, the conflict of going against everything you've believed in all your life, everything you are!!
I long for the day when we do have a peaceful world and acceptance of everyone that society discriminates and victimises against but while humans as we know them exist I fear its an impossibility!!
Be who you are, love who you love and don't let any fecker spoil your happiness!! |
I love this. Some outstanding whataboutism in there but the absolute cherry for me is the conclusion that repressed minorities should simply 'not let any fecker spoil their happiness'.
It is the responsibility of those in more powerful cultural positions (in this case, straight people) to look out for those who are powerless (in this case, gay people). That's how it should work in a civilised society. | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 07:23 - Oct 24 with 1567 views | DanTheMan |
| What has/does TWTD make on 03:07 - Oct 24 by Bluearmy71 |
Persecution is and has been prevalent for decades in all walks of life not just the gay community, its not right or acceptable but it is there and until the last seeds of any form of hate are stopped from being handed down to younger generations it never will stop, its 2022 and you expect hatred and discrimination to stop quickly or the stopping of it to move at a faster pace?? I'm afraid not because for every person whom is educated enough to see what is wrong in this world there is a person being educated that their wrong is right!!
Religion is an evil that causes more war and musters up more hatred in this world than any other body out there, unfortunately its a monster that never will be stopped!!
You say you didn't choose to be gay and people should be understanding of that fact How much choice do you think any child born into a Muslim family gets?? How much choice does a child get born into a family of hardcore racists?? How much choice does a child get born into a family of homophobic's ?? Its instilled into them from birth that this is the way they see life (this is what I mean by eliminating every seed sown) they have had as much choice as you in how their life has gone, I in no way mean you any disrespect but do you not think you should be a little more understanding of these facts?? Yes as adults they have a choice but moving away from what you have know all your life isn't easy for any individual, the conflict of going against everything you've believed in all your life, everything you are!!
I long for the day when we do have a peaceful world and acceptance of everyone that society discriminates and victimises against but while humans as we know them exist I fear its an impossibility!!
Be who you are, love who you love and don't let any fecker spoil your happiness!! |
It's somewhat ironic you talk about them not understanding things whilst conflating being gay with being raised as Muslim. They are not at all the same. Being gay is what you are, being Muslim (or any religion for that matter) is a choice no matter how deeply instilled it was from childhood.
Being gay is not a choice people are making. |  |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 07:44 - Oct 24 with 1540 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
I learned the other day that to the ranks of identity politics labels have been added, 'hasbians' and 'yestergays'. You couldn't make it up. |  |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 07:53 - Oct 24 with 1534 views | backinbeige |
| What has/does TWTD make on 03:07 - Oct 24 by Bluearmy71 |
Persecution is and has been prevalent for decades in all walks of life not just the gay community, its not right or acceptable but it is there and until the last seeds of any form of hate are stopped from being handed down to younger generations it never will stop, its 2022 and you expect hatred and discrimination to stop quickly or the stopping of it to move at a faster pace?? I'm afraid not because for every person whom is educated enough to see what is wrong in this world there is a person being educated that their wrong is right!!
Religion is an evil that causes more war and musters up more hatred in this world than any other body out there, unfortunately its a monster that never will be stopped!!
You say you didn't choose to be gay and people should be understanding of that fact How much choice do you think any child born into a Muslim family gets?? How much choice does a child get born into a family of hardcore racists?? How much choice does a child get born into a family of homophobic's ?? Its instilled into them from birth that this is the way they see life (this is what I mean by eliminating every seed sown) they have had as much choice as you in how their life has gone, I in no way mean you any disrespect but do you not think you should be a little more understanding of these facts?? Yes as adults they have a choice but moving away from what you have know all your life isn't easy for any individual, the conflict of going against everything you've believed in all your life, everything you are!!
I long for the day when we do have a peaceful world and acceptance of everyone that society discriminates and victimises against but while humans as we know them exist I fear its an impossibility!!
Be who you are, love who you love and don't let any fecker spoil your happiness!! |
If you are raised by people holding certain beliefs that you then adopt, you have adopted them because of your environment.
If you change your environment then your beliefs can also change.
You can change your prejudiced views in later life if you change your surroundings. If it was your surroundings that caused you to adopt them in the first place. There is a degree of personal choice.
You can’t decide to stop being gay.
Think about what you are saying.
Your views are extremely damaging.
We unfortunately need initiatives such as the armbands, laces, support groups, awareness campaigns, abuse hotlines, safe spaces. We don’t need people shunning them. We don’t need the club captain shunning them. | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 08:15 - Oct 24 with 1503 views | DanTheMan |
| What has/does TWTD make on 07:44 - Oct 24 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I learned the other day that to the ranks of identity politics labels have been added, 'hasbians' and 'yestergays'. You couldn't make it up. |
You realise those have been terms for a long time, yeah? | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 08:16 - Oct 24 with 1502 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What has/does TWTD make on 07:53 - Oct 24 by backinbeige |
If you are raised by people holding certain beliefs that you then adopt, you have adopted them because of your environment.
If you change your environment then your beliefs can also change.
You can change your prejudiced views in later life if you change your surroundings. If it was your surroundings that caused you to adopt them in the first place. There is a degree of personal choice.
You can’t decide to stop being gay.
Think about what you are saying.
Your views are extremely damaging.
We unfortunately need initiatives such as the armbands, laces, support groups, awareness campaigns, abuse hotlines, safe spaces. We don’t need people shunning them. We don’t need the club captain shunning them. |
"You can’t decide to stop being gay."
Tell that to a yestergay! | |
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| What has/does TWTD make on 08:40 - Oct 24 with 1478 views | DJR |
Whilst Morsy's action is disappointing, it pales into insignificance in comparison with football's effective support of the following by awarding the World Cup to Qatar.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/10/24/qatar-security-forces-arrest-abuse-lgbt-peop
On human rights more generally, including women's rights, this is particularly damning.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/qatar
Qatar is involved in what is known as sportwashing, namely, using sports to improve reputations tarnished by wrongdoing, and the cuddly adverts of, say, Qatar Airways only strengthen their reputation.
Quite why there has not been a greater backlash/boycott, I don't know, but it doesn't help that people like Gary Neville and David Beckham are fully signed up to the Qatari cause. [Post edited 24 Oct 2022 8:53]
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| What has/does TWTD make on 08:45 - Oct 24 with 1468 views | chicoazul |
| What has/does TWTD make on 08:40 - Oct 24 by DJR |
Whilst Morsy's action is disappointing, it pales into insignificance in comparison with football's effective support of the following by awarding the World Cup to Qatar.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/10/24/qatar-security-forces-arrest-abuse-lgbt-peop
On human rights more generally, including women's rights, this is particularly damning.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2022/country-chapters/qatar
Qatar is involved in what is known as sportwashing, namely, using sports to improve reputations tarnished by wrongdoing, and the cuddly adverts of, say, Qatar Airways only strengthen their reputation.
Quite why there has not been a greater backlash/boycott, I don't know, but it doesn't help that people like Gary Neville and David Beckham are fully signed up to the Qatari cause. [Post edited 24 Oct 2022 8:53]
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Respectfully, what is the point you are making here? “This is bad here is something worse”? This sounds like an attempt to deflect attention from the point of the OP.
I hope we hear from the club and Morsy soon with more detail on why he didn’t wear it. | |
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