| Rishi it is 14:01 - Oct 24 with 6102 views | usm |
Good luck pal |  |
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| Rishi it is on 16:55 - Oct 24 with 2237 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Rishi it is on 16:22 - Oct 24 by tractordownsouth |
Losing those members will be a blessing in disguise for the Tories because they'll most likely be the Johnson cultists and UKIP entryists they can do without. |
Although does it provide some impetus again for the likes of Farage? We got in this mess in the first place because the Tories weren't racist enough for many, they let UKIP drive the agenda and then had to go full Alf Garnett to win the UKIP vote back. Although shorn of Brexit, I can't see what else Farage could rally around, given that the Tories have a disgusting immigration policy that should please the vilest people. |  |
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| Rishi it is on 17:02 - Oct 24 with 2221 views | tractordownsouth |
| Rishi it is on 16:55 - Oct 24 by Swansea_Blue |
Although does it provide some impetus again for the likes of Farage? We got in this mess in the first place because the Tories weren't racist enough for many, they let UKIP drive the agenda and then had to go full Alf Garnett to win the UKIP vote back. Although shorn of Brexit, I can't see what else Farage could rally around, given that the Tories have a disgusting immigration policy that should please the vilest people. |
Yeah there's nothing obvious for Farage to rally around. He's been trying to make a campaign of stopping the small boats in the channel, but it's not really credible because after spending years telling people to vote Brexit to control the borders, the obvious retort is to ask why it hasn't happened yet if Brexit is as great as he said it would be.
Beyond that it's just fringe stuff like anti-vax conspiracies which only appeals to <10% of the population and doesn't have the appeal to swing voters that immigration issues do. |  |
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| Rishi it is on 17:17 - Oct 24 with 2207 views | DJR |
| Rishi it is on 16:13 - Oct 24 by DJR |
There's a suggestion on the Mail website that Sue Ellen (her real name) Braverman could be Home Secretary.
In any event, she has apparently extracted a promise from Sunak to limit the Human Rights Act. This is slightly ironic given we are supporting freedom in the Ukraine but seeking to limit rights in the UK.
Whatever happened to the Tories' belief in the rule of law? |
Sadly, Labour appear to be going down the illiberal route too.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/24/keir-starmer-backs-stiff-senten
Why not just bite the bullet and allow the army to shoot oil protesters and striking train drivers? [Post edited 24 Oct 2022 17:17]
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| Rishi it is on 17:24 - Oct 24 with 2186 views | itfcjoe |
| Rishi it is on 14:39 - Oct 24 by Guthrum |
Sunak is hardly 'Mr Brexit', he was not one of its architects, nor was he prominent in pushing it through. Can see him being far more pragmatic than Johnson in pushing deals with the EU through. |
You'd hope if he is economically literate and a Brexiteer then he has some idea how to deliver it without going down an ideological black hole |  |
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| Rishi it is on 17:25 - Oct 24 with 2182 views | itfcjoe |
| Rishi it is on 15:05 - Oct 24 by DJR |
And yesterday, he even put out a non-glossy statement, in contrast to his usual slick outpourings, just to make him seem more ordinary. In a similar vein, Johnson flew back in economy after spending two weeks at a £2,5000 a night hotel in the Caribbean.
It's all a big con but sadly many people fall for it.
Still to his credit, he did once meet a working-class person. |
At least Sunak is too rich to be bought, unlike Johnson who has to take money from everyone because he is skint and chaotic | |
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| Rishi it is on 17:28 - Oct 24 with 2169 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Rishi it is on 17:25 - Oct 24 by itfcjoe |
At least Sunak is too rich to be bought, unlike Johnson who has to take money from everyone because he is skint and chaotic |
It’s expensive having that many kids… |  | | |
| Rishi it is on 17:33 - Oct 24 with 2162 views | DJR |
| Rishi it is on 17:24 - Oct 24 by itfcjoe |
You'd hope if he is economically literate and a Brexiteer then he has some idea how to deliver it without going down an ideological black hole |
At its heart, Brexit was a series of contradictions. On the one hand it was supposed to lead to greater trade, but at the same time it put up trade barriers with our nearest neighbours. And its barriers to immigration were at variance with the growth it was supposed to lead to. This led to the ridiculous recent falling out between Braverman (who wanted to control immigration) and Truss (who wanted to increase immigration to boost growth). | | | |
| Rishi it is on 17:37 - Oct 24 with 2156 views | DJR |
| Rishi it is on 17:25 - Oct 24 by itfcjoe |
At least Sunak is too rich to be bought, unlike Johnson who has to take money from everyone because he is skint and chaotic |
I wouldn't be so sure about that when it comes to doing his bit for his fellow hedge funders or the fortunes of people like him and his wife. [Post edited 24 Oct 2022 17:39]
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| Rishi it is on 19:30 - Oct 24 with 2125 views | Mullet |
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| Rishi it is on 19:38 - Oct 24 with 2106 views | Bugs |
| Rishi it is on 17:25 - Oct 24 by itfcjoe |
At least Sunak is too rich to be bought, unlike Johnson who has to take money from everyone because he is skint and chaotic |
It's him and his ilk that normally doing the buying. No need for the middle man now. |  | | |
| Rishi it is on 19:54 - Oct 24 with 2085 views | HARRY10 |
| Rishi it is on 14:40 - Oct 24 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“He's the most economically literate PM we've had since Gordon Brown”
Interesting take - highest tax burden since the 1940’s with an ever increasing National debt, Sovereign credit downgrade, and failing to recoup fraudulent furlough cash. Albeit Gordon Brown is not a particularly high bar. |
No, rescuing the UK economy and playing a major part in that requirement globally (2008) is not that much, when compared to Osbornes austerity.
but then Labour have got used to having to clear up the mess the Tories leave see Barbers dash for growth, Lawson, Lamont.
it is not that they are necessarily more intelligent or anything, its just they have a different mindset.
i'm sure if I visted you parents house and spent a week selliung off their furnitire, wide goods, car etc they would be better off. But the consequences would be disaterous. That is pretty much what Tories have done for decades.
Fight to remove protective regulation allowed dangerous loans and debts ( sub prime mortgages). Flogging off public owned assets. Have we benefited from a better Royal Mail, trains service, water supply ?
I can understand why Sunak is a Tory. I cannot understand why unemployed Tom Daft in his council house up north is - or numpties like you are. i
I would suggest you educate yourself a bit more before spouting rightie nonsense but I suspect your forelock is almost worn out, and as with others you have an absolute aversion to evidence, or facts. | | | |
| Rishi it is on 20:24 - Oct 24 with 2062 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Rishi it is on 19:54 - Oct 24 by HARRY10 |
No, rescuing the UK economy and playing a major part in that requirement globally (2008) is not that much, when compared to Osbornes austerity.
but then Labour have got used to having to clear up the mess the Tories leave see Barbers dash for growth, Lawson, Lamont.
it is not that they are necessarily more intelligent or anything, its just they have a different mindset.
i'm sure if I visted you parents house and spent a week selliung off their furnitire, wide goods, car etc they would be better off. But the consequences would be disaterous. That is pretty much what Tories have done for decades.
Fight to remove protective regulation allowed dangerous loans and debts ( sub prime mortgages). Flogging off public owned assets. Have we benefited from a better Royal Mail, trains service, water supply ?
I can understand why Sunak is a Tory. I cannot understand why unemployed Tom Daft in his council house up north is - or numpties like you are. i
I would suggest you educate yourself a bit more before spouting rightie nonsense but I suspect your forelock is almost worn out, and as with others you have an absolute aversion to evidence, or facts. |
Oh dear Hazza, in your own words “not too bright are we”. I’ve literally spent that entire post saying Sunak is cr@p. Is that forelock tugging?
You are a lunatic. | | | |
| Rishi it is on 20:30 - Oct 24 with 2049 views | Rob88 |
| Rishi it is on 20:24 - Oct 24 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Oh dear Hazza, in your own words “not too bright are we”. I’ve literally spent that entire post saying Sunak is cr@p. Is that forelock tugging?
You are a lunatic. |
I had to re-read your post a few times, I thought I was the one going mad. | | | |
| Rishi it is on 20:31 - Oct 24 with 2048 views | Rob88 |
Anyway, well done usm, looks like you have upset all the right people with this one. | | | |
| Rishi it is on 20:52 - Oct 24 with 2025 views | J2BLUE |
| Rishi it is on 14:30 - Oct 24 by Plums |
He hasn't got a prayer. ERG won't endorse him and there are Tory members tearing their memberships up and posting on Twitter. It's fabulous! |
Got a link? |  |
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| Rishi it is on 22:28 - Oct 24 with 1943 views | eireblue |
Hmmmm, there isn’t a lot to argue about there, and Birmingham did do a very good job of the commonwealth games, so if he had been elected, imagine where we would be now. |  | | |
| Rishi it is on 22:41 - Oct 24 with 1929 views | HARRY10 |
| Rishi it is on 20:24 - Oct 24 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Oh dear Hazza, in your own words “not too bright are we”. I’ve literally spent that entire post saying Sunak is cr@p. Is that forelock tugging?
You are a lunatic. |
yes, silly old me. I thought your words
"Albeit Gordon Brown is not a particularly high bar. "
meant what they mean to normal folk
apparently, as you claim, they do not
Oh well, we all live and learn, I suppose | | | |
| Rishi it is on 00:09 - Oct 25 with 1893 views | Swansea_Blue |
What a knut. If he’s going to play to the lowest denominator, we’re stuffed. I can see the sense in them avoiding talking about Brexit because of how tribal it is. Not climate though. As you say, why not fully pander to the worst of us and go full Tory? | |
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| Rishi it is on 09:14 - Oct 25 with 1802 views | DJR |
| Rishi it is on 14:39 - Oct 24 by Guthrum |
Sunak is hardly 'Mr Brexit', he was not one of its architects, nor was he prominent in pushing it through. Can see him being far more pragmatic than Johnson in pushing deals with the EU through. |
The following passage from today's Guardian shows what a Brexit zealot Sunak is. As someone who has drafted Parliamentary legislation, and knows how difficult it is, I fully agree with what Jill Rutter says about this.
"Rishi Sunak ran for the Tory leadership this month without realising any manifesto or policy agenda at all, but we do have quite a good idea as to what he thinks because when he was a candidate in the summer, he announced a raft of policies. One announcement was that he would review all 2,400 EU regulations still on the UK statute book, with the first set of recommendations made “within the first 100 days”. This pledge allowed him to leapfrog Liz Truss in Brexit zealotry; she also pledged to review all retained EU law, with a view to scrapping the unnecessary regulations, but only by the end of 2023.
In an interview on the Today programme Jill Rutter, a former senior civil servant who now works at the Institute for Government thinktank, said that Sunak would be wise to abandon this campaign pledge. It would be impossible to review all retained EU law that quickly, she said. She told the programme:
If you look at my old department (Defra), they have about 500 pieces of law they need to look at ... even if they worked every day to the end of 2023 they’d be reviewing whether they keep or allow to lapse a piece of law a day, rewriting where necessary.
As you can see, difficult to draft, difficult to get the people to do it, impossible to have any decent level of parliamentary scrutiny." [Post edited 25 Oct 2022 9:15]
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| Rishi it is on 09:37 - Oct 25 with 1789 views | itfcjoe |
| Rishi it is on 09:14 - Oct 25 by DJR |
The following passage from today's Guardian shows what a Brexit zealot Sunak is. As someone who has drafted Parliamentary legislation, and knows how difficult it is, I fully agree with what Jill Rutter says about this.
"Rishi Sunak ran for the Tory leadership this month without realising any manifesto or policy agenda at all, but we do have quite a good idea as to what he thinks because when he was a candidate in the summer, he announced a raft of policies. One announcement was that he would review all 2,400 EU regulations still on the UK statute book, with the first set of recommendations made “within the first 100 days”. This pledge allowed him to leapfrog Liz Truss in Brexit zealotry; she also pledged to review all retained EU law, with a view to scrapping the unnecessary regulations, but only by the end of 2023.
In an interview on the Today programme Jill Rutter, a former senior civil servant who now works at the Institute for Government thinktank, said that Sunak would be wise to abandon this campaign pledge. It would be impossible to review all retained EU law that quickly, she said. She told the programme:
If you look at my old department (Defra), they have about 500 pieces of law they need to look at ... even if they worked every day to the end of 2023 they’d be reviewing whether they keep or allow to lapse a piece of law a day, rewriting where necessary.
As you can see, difficult to draft, difficult to get the people to do it, impossible to have any decent level of parliamentary scrutiny." [Post edited 25 Oct 2022 9:15]
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I guess he doesn't actually have any 'campaign pledges' though, and towards end of previous campaign did seem to try and play up to members - but he wasn't elected by them so now doesn't need to - they all hate him anyway "coz he knifed Boris"
It will be nice to see some flesh on the bones of what he intends to do though | |
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| Rishi it is on 09:51 - Oct 25 with 1771 views | DJR |
| Rishi it is on 09:37 - Oct 25 by itfcjoe |
I guess he doesn't actually have any 'campaign pledges' though, and towards end of previous campaign did seem to try and play up to members - but he wasn't elected by them so now doesn't need to - they all hate him anyway "coz he knifed Boris"
It will be nice to see some flesh on the bones of what he intends to do though |
It's certainly true that he probably had to pander to the members, and let's hope he will be more pragmatic now. But he will have the ERG breathing down his neck, and apparently agreed to some fairly distasteful things to get Sue Ellen (I'm bonkers) Braverman to give him her support. | | | |
| Rishi it is on 10:20 - Oct 25 with 1729 views | Churchman |
| Rishi it is on 09:14 - Oct 25 by DJR |
The following passage from today's Guardian shows what a Brexit zealot Sunak is. As someone who has drafted Parliamentary legislation, and knows how difficult it is, I fully agree with what Jill Rutter says about this.
"Rishi Sunak ran for the Tory leadership this month without realising any manifesto or policy agenda at all, but we do have quite a good idea as to what he thinks because when he was a candidate in the summer, he announced a raft of policies. One announcement was that he would review all 2,400 EU regulations still on the UK statute book, with the first set of recommendations made “within the first 100 days”. This pledge allowed him to leapfrog Liz Truss in Brexit zealotry; she also pledged to review all retained EU law, with a view to scrapping the unnecessary regulations, but only by the end of 2023.
In an interview on the Today programme Jill Rutter, a former senior civil servant who now works at the Institute for Government thinktank, said that Sunak would be wise to abandon this campaign pledge. It would be impossible to review all retained EU law that quickly, she said. She told the programme:
If you look at my old department (Defra), they have about 500 pieces of law they need to look at ... even if they worked every day to the end of 2023 they’d be reviewing whether they keep or allow to lapse a piece of law a day, rewriting where necessary.
As you can see, difficult to draft, difficult to get the people to do it, impossible to have any decent level of parliamentary scrutiny." [Post edited 25 Oct 2022 9:15]
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I went through a lot of EU regs as part of my job. The assumption is that these are onerous unnecessary ‘red tape’ hampering business.
This isn’t always true. Yes, the EU does love a regulation, but actually, so does the U.K. who actually wrote more than one of them! Some of the regulations and standards the U.K. operate to were more stringent than the EU or were international.
I’ve actually no problem reviewing EU regs, but it’s not a red pencil job. It’ll take time and resource. You have to understand why they are there, what they do, what the impact (or risk) is if you remove them if you want trade with the EU. It requires expertise. A simple example - if you scrap say regulations on pallets, fine. But you won’t be moving anything to the EU any time soon.
Of course, rejoin the CU/SM and you can save yourself the effort cost, as you will need to adhere to most EU regs to be part of it - and we will rejoin it at some point, whatever Sunak and the morons say.
DEFRA - had a fair amount of contact with them and visited their offices. The variety of what it’s responsible for means it was quite ‘siloed’ in how it worked. Met some nice people there. |  | | |
| Rishi it is on 12:49 - Oct 25 with 1687 views | DJR |
| Rishi it is on 10:20 - Oct 25 by Churchman |
I went through a lot of EU regs as part of my job. The assumption is that these are onerous unnecessary ‘red tape’ hampering business.
This isn’t always true. Yes, the EU does love a regulation, but actually, so does the U.K. who actually wrote more than one of them! Some of the regulations and standards the U.K. operate to were more stringent than the EU or were international.
I’ve actually no problem reviewing EU regs, but it’s not a red pencil job. It’ll take time and resource. You have to understand why they are there, what they do, what the impact (or risk) is if you remove them if you want trade with the EU. It requires expertise. A simple example - if you scrap say regulations on pallets, fine. But you won’t be moving anything to the EU any time soon.
Of course, rejoin the CU/SM and you can save yourself the effort cost, as you will need to adhere to most EU regs to be part of it - and we will rejoin it at some point, whatever Sunak and the morons say.
DEFRA - had a fair amount of contact with them and visited their offices. The variety of what it’s responsible for means it was quite ‘siloed’ in how it worked. Met some nice people there. |
This is spot on, and I speak as someone who has implemented EU rules in primary and secondary legislation. The fact is that it took an awful lot of Civil Service time to ensure that EU legislation continued to work properly after Brexit, and there are far more pressing problems for the Government and the Civil Service to deal with at present than carrying out what appears to be a much more radical and pointless exercise.
I never had much dealings with DEFRA not least because my understanding is that much of their legislation was EU derived, but a lot of that legislation concerns things like environmental protection which is why organisations like the RSPB and the National Trust are up in arms. It also means that I doubt there would be much expertise or manpower in DEFRA to come up with a completely new legislative framework in all the areas they are concerned with. On top of this, they would presumably be expected to do this in the context of further departmental budget cuts.
I left Whitehall eleven years ago, and I can only imagine the despair felt in the Civil Service these days, with a Government which doesn't care about the rule of law, and which legislates for things that are purely political and just shouldn't feature in primary legislation. After all, if your real intention is to remove or rewrite all EU legislation, there is no point having an Act that requires this. In effect, such an Act is purely political window-dressing designed only to appeal to the Brexit head-bangers. But that is not what legislation is meant to do.
EDIT: Below is a link to the Bill for the Act I mentioned. At present it provides for revocation of EU law at the end of 2023. But that date could be amended, or the Act repealed, which makes the whole thing a nonsense that just should not be legislated for.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-03/0156/220156.pdf [Post edited 25 Oct 2022 13:16]
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