Oh Jeremy on 15:12 - Mar 27 with 1304 views | Herbivore |
Oh Jeremy on 15:08 - Mar 27 by lowhouseblue | i'm very happy with labour - now a progressive and electable party. if there are people who want something different then they should have the balls to stand on what it is they want and see what the electorate think. |
Okay, cool. I'll just give up work and start a political party. How ridiculous of me to expect a modern European democracy might offer a mainstream party that even pretends to believe in fairly moderate social democratic policies, let alone anything approaching genuine socialism. Labour are about as progressive as a racist sloth currently. |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 15:14 - Mar 27 with 1281 views | HARRY10 |
Oh Jeremy on 13:15 - Mar 27 by blueasfook | If he had an ounce of integrity or humility he would stand down anyway after the damage he did to the Labour party. Only way to get rid of the bad smell of anti-semitism enablement is to banish it, it would seem. |
or getting the rightie press to stop making stuff up - but then what would you cap doffers do then ? It is a challenge to the Trots (Momentum) who do not belong in the Labour Party any more than the ERG/Reform/BNP/Ukip (or what ever name they hide under) belong in the Tory Party And it once again highlights the idiocy behind PR. Momentum and ERG will not form a separate party and stand on their policies to risk them being a party with limited numbers and limited influence but will always seek to infiltrate a bigger party and then try to take over. 'The usual methods are swamping a locakl constituency and trying to gain control. 'rigging the vote' and blatant lying to their deluded followers. Though I would add that Momentum would have to pull out all the stops to come anywhere near wrecking the country as the Tories have over the past 13 years. The Prime Miniature latest nonsense is about gas cannisters littering parts of some towns - what about the tons of untreated sh it being dumped in the rivers you cretin ? |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 15:15 - Mar 27 with 1278 views | Blueschev |
Oh Jeremy on 15:10 - Mar 27 by Herbivore | Indeed. I find it odd that there are some who claim to be progressive and to want a more equal society but feel the way to do so is to go in the opposite direction to that politically so that we don't scare people and then at some unspecified point in the future we might be able to gradually start making some very small changes to our rigged system. |
The arrogance of the current leadership is staggering. Good luck winning an election when you've pi**ed off or expelled the very members who do the donkey work for you when it comes to election campaigns. |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 15:15 - Mar 27 with 1273 views | lowhouseblue |
Oh Jeremy on 15:12 - Mar 27 by Herbivore | Okay, cool. I'll just give up work and start a political party. How ridiculous of me to expect a modern European democracy might offer a mainstream party that even pretends to believe in fairly moderate social democratic policies, let alone anything approaching genuine socialism. Labour are about as progressive as a racist sloth currently. |
there are parties that offer what you want. but since your views are in a small minority they will never form a government and never change anything. it's how democracy works. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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Oh Jeremy on 15:21 - Mar 27 with 1236 views | IpswichRising | Still no credible alternative, doesn't seem to matter how bad the Tories are, Labour continuously find ways to mess it up |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 15:22 - Mar 27 with 1237 views | Blueschev |
Oh Jeremy on 15:15 - Mar 27 by lowhouseblue | there are parties that offer what you want. but since your views are in a small minority they will never form a government and never change anything. it's how democracy works. |
And therein lies the problem. In 2019 Labour won 921778 more votes than in 2015, and 701462 more votes than is 2005. Yet people such as yourself shout from the rafters that 2019 was the worst labour election result since 1935. That's a sham of a democracy. |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 15:24 - Mar 27 with 1218 views | Herbivore |
Oh Jeremy on 15:15 - Mar 27 by lowhouseblue | there are parties that offer what you want. but since your views are in a small minority they will never form a government and never change anything. it's how democracy works. |
What boll0cks. |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 15:25 - Mar 27 with 1215 views | giant_stow |
Oh Jeremy on 15:22 - Mar 27 by Blueschev | And therein lies the problem. In 2019 Labour won 921778 more votes than in 2015, and 701462 more votes than is 2005. Yet people such as yourself shout from the rafters that 2019 was the worst labour election result since 1935. That's a sham of a democracy. |
I don't understand why those figures mean anything in isolation? Did the tories not get even more votes? |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 15:29 - Mar 27 with 1205 views | Blueschev |
Oh Jeremy on 15:25 - Mar 27 by giant_stow | I don't understand why those figures mean anything in isolation? Did the tories not get even more votes? |
It dispels the myth that a left wing labour party were hugely unpopular in comparison to when the "moderates" were at the helm. |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 15:38 - Mar 27 with 1189 views | giant_stow |
Oh Jeremy on 15:29 - Mar 27 by Blueschev | It dispels the myth that a left wing labour party were hugely unpopular in comparison to when the "moderates" were at the helm. |
Ah ok I see now - thanks - but not sure I agree. Surely you can only truly judge a party's popularity in a given moment, in relation to that party's opponents? ie, who;s in power. |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 15:40 - Mar 27 with 1187 views | leitrimblue |
Oh Jeremy on 15:08 - Mar 27 by lowhouseblue | i'm very happy with labour - now a progressive and electable party. if there are people who want something different then they should have the balls to stand on what it is they want and see what the electorate think. |
Wasn't Labour originally set up to represent the urban working class? If they now have no intent of representing the working class perhaps the could change there name to something more representative of who they now represent? I dunno, perhaps something like the Conservatives? |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 15:41 - Mar 27 with 1177 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Oh Jeremy on 15:29 - Mar 27 by Blueschev | It dispels the myth that a left wing labour party were hugely unpopular in comparison to when the "moderates" were at the helm. |
There are 7m more people in the UK than in 2005 (I can’t find the number of registered voters), so surely you would expect the total number of votes to increase. It’s not really a like for like comparison. |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 16:22 - Mar 27 with 1140 views | GlasgowBlue |
Oh Jeremy on 15:25 - Mar 27 by giant_stow | I don't understand why those figures mean anything in isolation? Did the tories not get even more votes? |
Yep. In 2017 T May got 2.5 million votes than Cameron did in 2015. Cameron got a majority and May lost it. You’d have to be stark raving bonkers to convince somebody that May’s result was better than Cameron’s. |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 16:23 - Mar 27 with 1143 views | Zapers |
Oh Jeremy on 14:20 - Mar 27 by Herbivore | Anyone genuinely left wing, or even left of centre left, is once again politically homeless in the UK. |
And likely to remain politically homeless. As more and more wealth is created, there are going to be less and less supporters of the likes of Corbyn. |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 16:34 - Mar 27 with 1120 views | leitrimblue |
Oh Jeremy on 16:23 - Mar 27 by Zapers | And likely to remain politically homeless. As more and more wealth is created, there are going to be less and less supporters of the likes of Corbyn. |
You think as 'more and more wealth is created" it will be shared equally between all in society? |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 16:38 - Mar 27 with 1102 views | Herbivore |
Oh Jeremy on 16:23 - Mar 27 by Zapers | And likely to remain politically homeless. As more and more wealth is created, there are going to be less and less supporters of the likes of Corbyn. |
Here it comes, live from planet Zog. |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 16:48 - Mar 27 with 1053 views | positivity |
Oh Jeremy on 14:20 - Mar 27 by Herbivore | Anyone genuinely left wing, or even left of centre left, is once again politically homeless in the UK. |
is it the left or just corbyn? if the mcdonnells/abbotts/lewises etc leave or are pushed, then you may have a point, but it could just be that jeremy (like boris with his 22 rebels) is a busted flush at this point? it might be that the left are better off fighting today and tomorrow's battles rather than yesterday's? |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 16:49 - Mar 27 with 1050 views | JakeITFC |
Oh Jeremy on 15:38 - Mar 27 by giant_stow | Ah ok I see now - thanks - but not sure I agree. Surely you can only truly judge a party's popularity in a given moment, in relation to that party's opponents? ie, who;s in power. |
I think it is relevant if used to detect a trend (especially around the ideas and votes of young people) - it definitely seems short-sighted of Labour to abandon a lot of goodwill in that regard in pursuit of a watered down, Tory-lite Government under Starmer. |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 17:01 - Mar 27 with 1019 views | Zapers |
Oh Jeremy on 16:34 - Mar 27 by leitrimblue | You think as 'more and more wealth is created" it will be shared equally between all in society? |
Do you dispute more and more wealth is being created? Realistically, do you honestly think that these people are willing to share? You really need to live in a realistic world otherwise disappointment awaits you. |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 17:05 - Mar 27 with 998 views | Herbivore |
Oh Jeremy on 16:48 - Mar 27 by positivity | is it the left or just corbyn? if the mcdonnells/abbotts/lewises etc leave or are pushed, then you may have a point, but it could just be that jeremy (like boris with his 22 rebels) is a busted flush at this point? it might be that the left are better off fighting today and tomorrow's battles rather than yesterday's? |
I was no great fan of Corbyn, I am just seeing very little on the way of left wing or especially progressive policies coming from Labour at the minute. They have drifted considerably rightward in recent times, which is a shame as the ground on the right and in the centre is already well covered by other parties. |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 17:05 - Mar 27 with 998 views | Zapers |
Oh Jeremy on 16:38 - Mar 27 by Herbivore | Here it comes, live from planet Zog. |
You can't help yourself, can you. |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 17:06 - Mar 27 with 995 views | leitrimblue |
Oh Jeremy on 17:01 - Mar 27 by Zapers | Do you dispute more and more wealth is being created? Realistically, do you honestly think that these people are willing to share? You really need to live in a realistic world otherwise disappointment awaits you. |
You've sorted answered this yourself haven't you? So more wealth is being created but as you quite rightly point out these people aren't willing to share. Therefore the poorest in society will need and deserve representation yes? |  | |  |
Oh Jeremy on 17:09 - Mar 27 with 978 views | Herbivore |
Oh Jeremy on 17:01 - Mar 27 by Zapers | Do you dispute more and more wealth is being created? Realistically, do you honestly think that these people are willing to share? You really need to live in a realistic world otherwise disappointment awaits you. |
What do you mean by wealth creation and how exactly does someone create wealth? Most wealth is extracted from the masses by the already wealthy, they aren't creating wealth, they are just using the levers of capitalism and cronyism to redistribute more and more of it to themselves. |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 17:12 - Mar 27 with 970 views | Ryorry |
Oh Jeremy on 15:40 - Mar 27 by leitrimblue | Wasn't Labour originally set up to represent the urban working class? If they now have no intent of representing the working class perhaps the could change there name to something more representative of who they now represent? I dunno, perhaps something like the Conservatives? |
Personally, I've always found the whole concept of 'working-class', 'middle-class' & 'upper class' totally ridiculous; and now it's completely outdated to boot. People are either doing useful/valuable jobs; pointless ones, or exploitative ones - the last should be banned. I'd pay carers, medics, nurses, NHS cleaners & porters, refuse collectors & other dirty/dangerous job employees top whack; and those in politics, banking & advertising (sorry Dolly) no more than a living wage. It's what people get DONE that counts, not the amount of waffle they produce or paper/digital buttons they shuffle. |  |
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Oh Jeremy on 17:16 - Mar 27 with 955 views | giant_stow |
Oh Jeremy on 16:49 - Mar 27 by JakeITFC | I think it is relevant if used to detect a trend (especially around the ideas and votes of young people) - it definitely seems short-sighted of Labour to abandon a lot of goodwill in that regard in pursuit of a watered down, Tory-lite Government under Starmer. |
I definitely have sympathy for the 2nd part of your post and just hope that if Starmer gets into power, he'd shift again back left. But sorry - not disagreeing for the sake of it, but I just don';t see the value in the trend you identify when Labour ended up as far from actual power as its ever been. One party is bound to have an influence on the other in a two party state - they play off each other and each's popularity is a direct function of the other's. |  |
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