| Oh Jeremy on 10:29 - Mar 29 with 1013 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:24 - Mar 29 by Blueschev |
I don't believe it would be possible to get a left wing candidate on the ballot again, and in the unlikely event that a genuine left wing candidate were to emerge as leader, all and every bit of mud would be slung at them until something stuck. Lies would be repeated across the media until it was accepted truth to most people. |
disagree, if you're free of the baggage you'll stand a much better chance.
if you have decent charisma, man-management you have a better chance of your policies breaking through (eg mick lynch/andy burnham) |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 10:33 - Mar 29 with 970 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:24 - Mar 29 by Blueschev |
I don't believe it would be possible to get a left wing candidate on the ballot again, and in the unlikely event that a genuine left wing candidate were to emerge as leader, all and every bit of mud would be slung at them until something stuck. Lies would be repeated across the media until it was accepted truth to most people. |
Are you suggesting the baggage I’ve attributed to Corbyn is lies? |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 10:49 - Mar 29 with 927 views | Blueschev |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:33 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Are you suggesting the baggage I’ve attributed to Corbyn is lies? |
The insinuation that Corbyn is somehow a supporter of Putin / Assad is simply not true. And further to your question as to why a left wing candidate can't emerge, the same insinuations would be levelled at them unless they were to toe the line on western (US) foreign policy.
The disasters of Iraq / Afghanistan / Libya are either ignored or excused as the "sensible" politicians carried them out. But to suggest that chucking more weapons at a warzone might not be the way to go you're labelled an unpatriotic extremist. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 10:52]
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| Oh Jeremy on 10:55 - Mar 29 with 901 views | lowhouseblue |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:49 - Mar 29 by Blueschev |
The insinuation that Corbyn is somehow a supporter of Putin / Assad is simply not true. And further to your question as to why a left wing candidate can't emerge, the same insinuations would be levelled at them unless they were to toe the line on western (US) foreign policy.
The disasters of Iraq / Afghanistan / Libya are either ignored or excused as the "sensible" politicians carried them out. But to suggest that chucking more weapons at a warzone might not be the way to go you're labelled an unpatriotic extremist. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 10:52]
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i'd go for instinctive enabler rather than supporter. or shares a world view with. or his enemy's enemies are people he makes excuses for? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Oh Jeremy on 10:55 - Mar 29 with 884 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:26 - Mar 29 by positivity |
nonsense, as blueschev stated "Corbyn was a poor leader, wholly unsuited to party leadership". the problem is him with the public, not so much the policies, particularly if you can eliminate corbyn from the policies.
instead of spending so much time calling for corbyn's reinstatement and criticising starmer (*personality/personality*), promote alternative *policies* |
So why didn’t Starmer do that? During the Labour leadership campaign, he pledged he would build on the policy platform but without the baggage. Then he threw pretty much everything in the bin at the first opportunity as leader.
You clearly don’t mean what you say. Or, as seems increasingly apparent, you just don’t know what you’re talking about. |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 10:59 - Mar 29 with 868 views | giant_stow |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:55 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
So why didn’t Starmer do that? During the Labour leadership campaign, he pledged he would build on the policy platform but without the baggage. Then he threw pretty much everything in the bin at the first opportunity as leader.
You clearly don’t mean what you say. Or, as seems increasingly apparent, you just don’t know what you’re talking about. |
Darth can't you just disagree like a grownup? Why is it people always 'don't understand what they're talking about' or are lying? |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:00 - Mar 29 with 861 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh Jeremy on 22:25 - Mar 28 by positivity |
corbyn's actions have set the left back in the labour party for a few years. if he'd have continued, he'd have set us back with the country for a generation.
better that the left work together in the labour party then unite behind someone with leadership qualities rather than obsessing over yesterday's loser.
he's labour's paul lambert, briefly bought joy to the club with a return to traditional values, before poor leadership, poor man-management, poor tactics, poor results and general haplessness saw the back of him [Post edited 28 Mar 2023 22:25]
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It's not us obsessing over him. You only have to see who started this thread (and read through it) to see who's obsessing over him. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:01 - Mar 29 with 861 views | Blueschev |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:26 - Mar 29 by positivity |
nonsense, as blueschev stated "Corbyn was a poor leader, wholly unsuited to party leadership". the problem is him with the public, not so much the policies, particularly if you can eliminate corbyn from the policies.
instead of spending so much time calling for corbyn's reinstatement and criticising starmer (*personality/personality*), promote alternative *policies* |
To be fair Starmer won the leadership contest by campaigning on such policies, then dumped them once in power. We're now the party of patriotism, whatever that means. | | | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:03 - Mar 29 with 859 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:55 - Mar 29 by lowhouseblue |
i'd go for instinctive enabler rather than supporter. or shares a world view with. or his enemy's enemies are people he makes excuses for? |
Indeed.
Swapping alignment from Saudi Arabia to Iran is not progressive or pragmatic. Just a different cheek of the same @rse. | | | |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:04 - Mar 29 with 832 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:55 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
So why didn’t Starmer do that? During the Labour leadership campaign, he pledged he would build on the policy platform but without the baggage. Then he threw pretty much everything in the bin at the first opportunity as leader.
You clearly don’t mean what you say. Or, as seems increasingly apparent, you just don’t know what you’re talking about. |
nonsense, they threw away the baggage (corbyn), the rest is up for grabs.
i doubt even corbyn would keep the exact same policy platform after the pandemic/the tories tanked the economy. the left should be pushing for the important things to be formalised as policy, not spurning political capital and media oxygen on yesterday's man.
which of the policies which labour have "junked" would be your highest priority to formalise in the manifesto? | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:06 - Mar 29 with 815 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:01 - Mar 29 by Blueschev |
To be fair Starmer won the leadership contest by campaigning on such policies, then dumped them once in power. We're now the party of patriotism, whatever that means. |
same question about policy as i just put to darth...
i doubt even corbyn would keep the exact same policy platform after the pandemic/the tories tanked the economy. the left should be pushing for the important things to be formalised as policy, not spurning political capital and media oxygen on yesterday's man.
which of the policies which labour have "junked" would be your highest priority to formalise in the manifesto? | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:08 - Mar 29 with 799 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:00 - Mar 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's not us obsessing over him. You only have to see who started this thread (and read through it) to see who's obsessing over him. |
some of us are, some can't answer anything without "but corbyn"/"but starmer"! | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:09 - Mar 29 with 792 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:59 - Mar 29 by giant_stow |
Darth can't you just disagree like a grownup? Why is it people always 'don't understand what they're talking about' or are lying? |
Because that’s the reality. As you yourself prove.
We have right-wingers in the press and on here telling us how Labour “need to be” and have spent years monstering the left. And yes, they’ve lied, cheated and stolen to do that.
Then we have the clueless people who buy that wholesale and who don’t even understand what left or centre-left politics really is.
I don’t know how or why our politics and political discussions got so sh/t and disconnected from the real underlying issues and solutions. But if you’re stuck monstering the left that hasn’t been in power for 40+ years or passively lapping it up then you’re part of this decline. | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:12 - Mar 29 with 785 views | giant_stow |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:09 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
Because that’s the reality. As you yourself prove.
We have right-wingers in the press and on here telling us how Labour “need to be” and have spent years monstering the left. And yes, they’ve lied, cheated and stolen to do that.
Then we have the clueless people who buy that wholesale and who don’t even understand what left or centre-left politics really is.
I don’t know how or why our politics and political discussions got so sh/t and disconnected from the real underlying issues and solutions. But if you’re stuck monstering the left that hasn’t been in power for 40+ years or passively lapping it up then you’re part of this decline. |
...the old double-down. In fairness, I didn't expect anything else. | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:21 - Mar 29 with 770 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:04 - Mar 29 by positivity |
nonsense, they threw away the baggage (corbyn), the rest is up for grabs.
i doubt even corbyn would keep the exact same policy platform after the pandemic/the tories tanked the economy. the left should be pushing for the important things to be formalised as policy, not spurning political capital and media oxygen on yesterday's man.
which of the policies which labour have "junked" would be your highest priority to formalise in the manifesto? |
We were talking about left-wing politics without the baggage. But now you’ve moved the goalposts to say that these aren’t possible because of Covid or the state our one-track neoliberal economy has got into over consecutive governments, Tory and Labour ...
Isn’t the real answer that you don’t believe in progressive policies or any significant change to the status quo? And neither does Starmer now that he’s become leader and can ignore the membership and close ranks with his Labour right-wing power base. | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:31 - Mar 29 with 711 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:12 - Mar 29 by giant_stow |
...the old double-down. In fairness, I didn't expect anything else. |
You asked him a question, he answered you, now you don't appear to like that answer. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:33 - Mar 29 with 708 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:08 - Mar 29 by positivity |
some of us are, some can't answer anything without "but corbyn"/"but starmer"! |
I've just read through the thread. It's not only Glassers still obsessed with kicking a dead horse, you've told people to stop obsessing over yesterday's man about 7 times in this thread. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:33 - Mar 29 with 713 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:21 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
We were talking about left-wing politics without the baggage. But now you’ve moved the goalposts to say that these aren’t possible because of Covid or the state our one-track neoliberal economy has got into over consecutive governments, Tory and Labour ...
Isn’t the real answer that you don’t believe in progressive policies or any significant change to the status quo? And neither does Starmer now that he’s become leader and can ignore the membership and close ranks with his Labour right-wing power base. |
stop with the but starmer nonsense and read more carefully...
i never said that left-wing policies are impossible. i said that even corbyn wouldn't keep everyone of his policies after the pandemic and the tories trashed the economy. it's significantly worse than when the 2019 manifesto was published, your head isn't so much in the sand that you can't see that is it?
i believe in progressive policies and significant change to the status quo. i'm constantly trying to get back to policy, your constantly bringing it back to poor jeremy/smearing starmer. i'll try again.
which of the policies which labour have "junked" would be your highest priority to formalise in the manifesto? | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:34 - Mar 29 with 702 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:33 - Mar 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've just read through the thread. It's not only Glassers still obsessed with kicking a dead horse, you've told people to stop obsessing over yesterday's man about 7 times in this thread. |
yes, it doesn't seem to be working...
the horse is dead, stop rubbernecking it, talk about policies! | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:37 - Mar 29 with 696 views | giant_stow |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:31 - Mar 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You asked him a question, he answered you, now you don't appear to like that answer. |
Actually, I'm at peace with Darth's answer, Dollers - I could have written it for him. | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:37 - Mar 29 with 695 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:12 - Mar 29 by giant_stow |
...the old double-down. In fairness, I didn't expect anything else. |
I doubled-down because it’s true. | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:47 - Mar 29 with 671 views | leitrimblue |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:49 - Mar 29 by Blueschev |
The insinuation that Corbyn is somehow a supporter of Putin / Assad is simply not true. And further to your question as to why a left wing candidate can't emerge, the same insinuations would be levelled at them unless they were to toe the line on western (US) foreign policy.
The disasters of Iraq / Afghanistan / Libya are either ignored or excused as the "sensible" politicians carried them out. But to suggest that chucking more weapons at a warzone might not be the way to go you're labelled an unpatriotic extremist. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 10:52]
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Would appear we need someone from the left happy to support or at least turn a blind eye to the atrocities carried out by the right wing state of Israel.
Perhaps someone willing to ignore the collusion of the British state and military in the murder of women and children in Ireland.
Perhaps someone even willing to pretend that the construction of concentration camps in Africa(sorry containment centres) to hold immigrants is a good idea.
That should all help to make the world a better place... |  | | |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:49 - Mar 29 with 650 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:49 - Mar 29 by Blueschev |
The insinuation that Corbyn is somehow a supporter of Putin / Assad is simply not true. And further to your question as to why a left wing candidate can't emerge, the same insinuations would be levelled at them unless they were to toe the line on western (US) foreign policy.
The disasters of Iraq / Afghanistan / Libya are either ignored or excused as the "sensible" politicians carried them out. But to suggest that chucking more weapons at a warzone might not be the way to go you're labelled an unpatriotic extremist. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 10:52]
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I said apologist. Not supporter.
But at least by omitting to address antisemitism and support for terrorist groups, you don’t believe either to be a lie. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 11:55]
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:49 - Mar 29 with 651 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh Jeremy on 10:33 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
Are you suggesting the baggage I’ve attributed to Corbyn is lies? |
Mostly, yes.
They’re certainly misrepresentations and smears rather than an objective discussion of the facts. You deal in accusations but always dodge the evidence because it doesn’t actually provide much ammunition at all. | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:51 - Mar 29 with 630 views | Herbivore |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:33 - Mar 29 by positivity |
stop with the but starmer nonsense and read more carefully...
i never said that left-wing policies are impossible. i said that even corbyn wouldn't keep everyone of his policies after the pandemic and the tories trashed the economy. it's significantly worse than when the 2019 manifesto was published, your head isn't so much in the sand that you can't see that is it?
i believe in progressive policies and significant change to the status quo. i'm constantly trying to get back to policy, your constantly bringing it back to poor jeremy/smearing starmer. i'll try again.
which of the policies which labour have "junked" would be your highest priority to formalise in the manifesto? |
Why aren't we talking about nationalising energy when we've seen how the private sector struggles to cope with shocks to the system and it results in less choice and costly government intervention to keep things going? Starmer has talked about a national green energy company, and that's probably the most progressive of his policies, but I'd argue it doesn't go far enough. I'd add water being nationalised as well, given water companies have a terrible track record on efficiencies and investing in infrastructure and they are literally pumping sh!t into rivers and the sea on the reg. Not heard much from Labour on that score either. They've also put forward nothing concrete on addressing the real terms pay cuts that NHS and public sector workers have endured over the past 14 years. I'd like to see them talking about things like 4 day working weeks and universal basic income, but these things are far too progressive for the current Labour party. |  |
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