| Oh Jeremy on 11:53 - Mar 29 with 1002 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:00 - Mar 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's not us obsessing over him. You only have to see who started this thread (and read through it) to see who's obsessing over him. |
I started a post about the current leader of the Labour Party proposing a motion to ban the former leader of the Labour Party from standing as a Labour candidate. That’s not an obsession. It’s pretty big news.
I’m reasonably confident that if Sunak had the stones to do the same with Boris Johnson, somebody, maybe you, would have started a thread on such an unprecedented event. |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 11:55 - Mar 29 with 995 views | itfcjoe |
| Oh Jeremy on 09:43 - Mar 29 by Blueschev |
I would tend to agree with you, but how do you propose we on the left do this? The power grab from the top has diminished the power of the constituency parties as well as conference.
Corbyn was a poor leader, wholly unsuited to party leadership. However the attacks on him are also an attack on the broader left. "If you don't like it, you can leave." |
The left just need to sit tight and get behind the leadership ahead of the next election.
Labour have an 80 seat majority to overturn, if they manage to do that, it will be an incredible achievement, but if they do manage to do it - what will their majority be? 10? 15?
That's when those MPs on the left, those who will be reselected into safe seats - Richard Burgon et al will have the power they need.
Look how much power Steve Baker and the ERG have wielded over this Government - the MPs on the left of the party need to get organised, get a proper grouping together, bite their tongue and if/when Labour are in power, they will have real power if they can be a proper voting bloc. A party within a party so to speak.
This isn't going to be a Blair landslide where they can just be boxed off and ignored - but they have to be disciplined, consistent, and as one |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:00 - Mar 29 with 953 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:33 - Mar 29 by positivity |
stop with the but starmer nonsense and read more carefully...
i never said that left-wing policies are impossible. i said that even corbyn wouldn't keep everyone of his policies after the pandemic and the tories trashed the economy. it's significantly worse than when the 2019 manifesto was published, your head isn't so much in the sand that you can't see that is it?
i believe in progressive policies and significant change to the status quo. i'm constantly trying to get back to policy, your constantly bringing it back to poor jeremy/smearing starmer. i'll try again.
which of the policies which labour have "junked" would be your highest priority to formalise in the manifesto? |
https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
Starting with number 1 as the driver. The rich vs. poor gap hasn’t been this big since Victorian times but simultaneously we’ve got a low tax take and spend to GDP. There needs to be a fundamental shift in approach to stop squeezing the vulnerable millions at the wrong end.
Why have these pledges either been junked or watered down to suit private enterprise? What has changed to give us two parties with little between them and not promising any real change to the status quo? |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:03 - Mar 29 with 940 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:51 - Mar 29 by Herbivore |
Why aren't we talking about nationalising energy when we've seen how the private sector struggles to cope with shocks to the system and it results in less choice and costly government intervention to keep things going? Starmer has talked about a national green energy company, and that's probably the most progressive of his policies, but I'd argue it doesn't go far enough. I'd add water being nationalised as well, given water companies have a terrible track record on efficiencies and investing in infrastructure and they are literally pumping sh!t into rivers and the sea on the reg. Not heard much from Labour on that score either. They've also put forward nothing concrete on addressing the real terms pay cuts that NHS and public sector workers have endured over the past 14 years. I'd like to see them talking about things like 4 day working weeks and universal basic income, but these things are far too progressive for the current Labour party. |
some policy at last, agree with the nationalisation of energy and water, only problem is funding.
i think nationalisation by stealth (as in the rail companies) and keeping them nationalised. i'd love to see them nationalise the gp service as has also been mentioned, but it's fraught with difficulty legally to do it in one go. again, nationalizing as contracts end may be a good compromise/first step.
universal basic income would be a great idea, but that's some way down the line, even the previous leader didn't do anything on that!
my priorities would be addressing climate change above all, in every decision, and pr. |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:06 - Mar 29 with 919 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:33 - Mar 29 by positivity |
stop with the but starmer nonsense and read more carefully...
i never said that left-wing policies are impossible. i said that even corbyn wouldn't keep everyone of his policies after the pandemic and the tories trashed the economy. it's significantly worse than when the 2019 manifesto was published, your head isn't so much in the sand that you can't see that is it?
i believe in progressive policies and significant change to the status quo. i'm constantly trying to get back to policy, your constantly bringing it back to poor jeremy/smearing starmer. i'll try again.
which of the policies which labour have "junked" would be your highest priority to formalise in the manifesto? |
"your constantly bringing it back to poor jeremy"
The irony just gets worse and worse. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:06 - Mar 29 with 919 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:03 - Mar 29 by positivity |
some policy at last, agree with the nationalisation of energy and water, only problem is funding.
i think nationalisation by stealth (as in the rail companies) and keeping them nationalised. i'd love to see them nationalise the gp service as has also been mentioned, but it's fraught with difficulty legally to do it in one go. again, nationalizing as contracts end may be a good compromise/first step.
universal basic income would be a great idea, but that's some way down the line, even the previous leader didn't do anything on that!
my priorities would be addressing climate change above all, in every decision, and pr. |
“my priorities would be addressing climate change above all, in every decision, and pr.”
Good luck with any of that. | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:06 - Mar 29 with 915 views | Herbivore |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:55 - Mar 29 by itfcjoe |
The left just need to sit tight and get behind the leadership ahead of the next election.
Labour have an 80 seat majority to overturn, if they manage to do that, it will be an incredible achievement, but if they do manage to do it - what will their majority be? 10? 15?
That's when those MPs on the left, those who will be reselected into safe seats - Richard Burgon et al will have the power they need.
Look how much power Steve Baker and the ERG have wielded over this Government - the MPs on the left of the party need to get organised, get a proper grouping together, bite their tongue and if/when Labour are in power, they will have real power if they can be a proper voting bloc. A party within a party so to speak.
This isn't going to be a Blair landslide where they can just be boxed off and ignored - but they have to be disciplined, consistent, and as one |
This is effectively an argument for PR though. If Labour win a majority on a centrist, economically centre-right platform (which is where they seem to going) but then in government they are being pulled leftward by a faction of their party, it doesn't feel very democratic. Much as I'd always be happy to move leftward, this is just evidence of the need for PR and greater pluralism in our politics. |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:06 - Mar 29 with 913 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:00 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
Starting with number 1 as the driver. The rich vs. poor gap hasn’t been this big since Victorian times but simultaneously we’ve got a low tax take and spend to GDP. There needs to be a fundamental shift in approach to stop squeezing the vulnerable millions at the wrong end.
Why have these pledges either been junked or watered down to suit private enterprise? What has changed to give us two parties with little between them and not promising any real change to the status quo? |
where has this been junked? it appears to still be on the labour party leader's website and i don't see it being ruled out of the manifesto anywhere? | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:08 - Mar 29 with 901 views | Blueschev |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:49 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I said apologist. Not supporter.
But at least by omitting to address antisemitism and support for terrorist groups, you don’t believe either to be a lie. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 11:55]
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I believe that you believe them, but I don't think that Corbyn is an antisemite. And I firmly believe that many people in the press who accuse him of being one don't really believe it, or care about antisemitism. |  | | |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:08 - Mar 29 with 896 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:37 - Mar 29 by giant_stow |
Actually, I'm at peace with Darth's answer, Dollers - I could have written it for him. |
Why not respond in kind rather than belittling them then? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:08 - Mar 29 with 895 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:06 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
“my priorities would be addressing climate change above all, in every decision, and pr.”
Good luck with any of that. |
thanks for your good wishes and let's keep working towards achieving them! | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:11 - Mar 29 with 859 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:06 - Mar 29 by Herbivore |
This is effectively an argument for PR though. If Labour win a majority on a centrist, economically centre-right platform (which is where they seem to going) but then in government they are being pulled leftward by a faction of their party, it doesn't feel very democratic. Much as I'd always be happy to move leftward, this is just evidence of the need for PR and greater pluralism in our politics. |
if people vote for leftwing labour mps who state that and they then push labour further to the left, then i think it's implied consent. if it breaches the manifesto it becomes a problem.
but yes, pr would help this | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:15 - Mar 29 with 846 views | Darth_Koont |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:06 - Mar 29 by positivity |
where has this been junked? it appears to still be on the labour party leader's website and i don't see it being ruled out of the manifesto anywhere? |
Starmer, Reeves and others have backed away from pretty much all of these pledges, certainly in the critical details.
You know this, surely? | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:17 - Mar 29 with 828 views | Herbivore |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:11 - Mar 29 by positivity |
if people vote for leftwing labour mps who state that and they then push labour further to the left, then i think it's implied consent. if it breaches the manifesto it becomes a problem.
but yes, pr would help this |
You overestimate how clued up the average voter is. | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:18 - Mar 29 with 828 views | itfcjoe |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:06 - Mar 29 by Herbivore |
This is effectively an argument for PR though. If Labour win a majority on a centrist, economically centre-right platform (which is where they seem to going) but then in government they are being pulled leftward by a faction of their party, it doesn't feel very democratic. Much as I'd always be happy to move leftward, this is just evidence of the need for PR and greater pluralism in our politics. |
I just don't see that there is any appetite for PR amongst those it matters with, or that it would be a panacea for those who want it.
I think the electorate should be aware that if Labour gets in the party will pull them leftwards, and the same with the Tories - those who join parties are generally nowhere near where the average voter for their party is - but don't disagree that it isn't very democratic but they will still have to stick by manifesto commitments that those who have stood have been elected on but just the 'detail' of the policy they can get more done with | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:24 - Mar 29 with 781 views | Herbivore |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:18 - Mar 29 by itfcjoe |
I just don't see that there is any appetite for PR amongst those it matters with, or that it would be a panacea for those who want it.
I think the electorate should be aware that if Labour gets in the party will pull them leftwards, and the same with the Tories - those who join parties are generally nowhere near where the average voter for their party is - but don't disagree that it isn't very democratic but they will still have to stick by manifesto commitments that those who have stood have been elected on but just the 'detail' of the policy they can get more done with |
The general electorate isn't aware of very much when it comes to politics, unfortunately. I don't think our politics is healthy in its current form, we've got two monolithic parties trying to appease multiple factions and we oscillate between the two governing with a majority when they haven't secured a majority of public support. It's not far removed from the bi-partisan politics of the US. Whether people are politically engaged enough to care about PR, for me it's a far more democratic system and would require more consensus and negotiation rather than parties governing like tinpot dictators despite a majority of the population not voting for them. | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:26 - Mar 29 with 759 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:53 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I started a post about the current leader of the Labour Party proposing a motion to ban the former leader of the Labour Party from standing as a Labour candidate. That’s not an obsession. It’s pretty big news.
I’m reasonably confident that if Sunak had the stones to do the same with Boris Johnson, somebody, maybe you, would have started a thread on such an unprecedented event. |
It had to be you though. You've even changed your avatar to a pathetic picture of Corbyn in a bin.
Utterly obsessed.
It's not just this thread either. You've been sticking the boot into Corbyn long after your smear campaign worked and you got the Tory government you wanted (not to mention Brexit). You're even gleefully posting clips of Corbyn being harassed in the street by a reporter and claiming it's Corbyn at fault.
You got what you wanted. And the country is in the state that it's in because of people like you. You might as well just own it and be proud of it like the likes of Zapers.
Feels like a hollow victory given what we've ended up with but it is what it is. Keep trying to demonise Corbyn if it gives you a target still, but the truth is the bogeyman's gone and the problems still remain. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:31 - Mar 29 with 714 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:00 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
https://keirstarmer.com/plans/10-pledges/
Starting with number 1 as the driver. The rich vs. poor gap hasn’t been this big since Victorian times but simultaneously we’ve got a low tax take and spend to GDP. There needs to be a fundamental shift in approach to stop squeezing the vulnerable millions at the wrong end.
Why have these pledges either been junked or watered down to suit private enterprise? What has changed to give us two parties with little between them and not promising any real change to the status quo? |
Starmer isn't in power. If/when he gets in and doesn't deliver these pledges, then you'll have a point. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:34 - Mar 29 with 679 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:06 - Mar 29 by Herbivore |
This is effectively an argument for PR though. If Labour win a majority on a centrist, economically centre-right platform (which is where they seem to going) but then in government they are being pulled leftward by a faction of their party, it doesn't feel very democratic. Much as I'd always be happy to move leftward, this is just evidence of the need for PR and greater pluralism in our politics. |
You're spot on of course, but while the system is rigged as it is they don't have too much choice do they? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:36 - Mar 29 with 671 views | unbelievablue |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:18 - Mar 29 by itfcjoe |
I just don't see that there is any appetite for PR amongst those it matters with, or that it would be a panacea for those who want it.
I think the electorate should be aware that if Labour gets in the party will pull them leftwards, and the same with the Tories - those who join parties are generally nowhere near where the average voter for their party is - but don't disagree that it isn't very democratic but they will still have to stick by manifesto commitments that those who have stood have been elected on but just the 'detail' of the policy they can get more done with |
I've not seen any evidence that Starmer will lurch leftwards from his legislative agenda.
Historical precedent, yes, but no evidence it would happen under him. He's blocking numerous leftist candidates. |  |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:36 - Mar 29 with 669 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:15 - Mar 29 by Darth_Koont |
Starmer, Reeves and others have backed away from pretty much all of these pledges, certainly in the critical details.
You know this, surely? |
there's been balloons sent up in both directions to test the wind, that's what oppositions do in mid-term.
until it gets into an official policy statement, a manifesto (or at the very least gets removed from the leader's own website!) then it's up for grabs and certainly hasn't been "junked". you know this, surely? | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:39 - Mar 29 with 665 views | positivity |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:17 - Mar 29 by Herbivore |
You overestimate how clued up the average voter is. |
possibly, but a lot of people vote for their mp rather than the leader, so it's not black-and-white | |
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| Oh Jeremy on 12:59 - Mar 29 with 610 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:26 - Mar 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It had to be you though. You've even changed your avatar to a pathetic picture of Corbyn in a bin.
Utterly obsessed.
It's not just this thread either. You've been sticking the boot into Corbyn long after your smear campaign worked and you got the Tory government you wanted (not to mention Brexit). You're even gleefully posting clips of Corbyn being harassed in the street by a reporter and claiming it's Corbyn at fault.
You got what you wanted. And the country is in the state that it's in because of people like you. You might as well just own it and be proud of it like the likes of Zapers.
Feels like a hollow victory given what we've ended up with but it is what it is. Keep trying to demonise Corbyn if it gives you a target still, but the truth is the bogeyman's gone and the problems still remain. |
I can’t believe it was so easy to fool Keir Starmer into believing my smear campaign against St Jeremy. After all, it was Keir who has put Corbyn in the bin.
My reach must be greater than I thought as the NEC unanimously backed Starmer’s motion yesterday.
Oh and let’s not forget the three leading British Jewish newspapers who fell for my smear campaign. Or the 80% of British Jews. Or the Board of Deputies, the Jewish Labour Movement and the Chief
Rabbi. Hope Not Hate. The EHRC.
What a reach I have.
You’ve soiled yourself defending this grubby little man who brought the Labour Party into disrepute by overseeing a crisis that saw the EHRC find Labour guilty of anti Jewish discrimination under his leadership.
You should have stuck to re posting Russell Brand’s words crackpot and dangerous conspiracies. At least people would have only thought you were a little dim and easily lead, rather than an apologist for antisemitism. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 13:04]
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| Oh Jeremy on 13:07 - Mar 29 with 598 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh Jeremy on 12:59 - Mar 29 by GlasgowBlue |
I can’t believe it was so easy to fool Keir Starmer into believing my smear campaign against St Jeremy. After all, it was Keir who has put Corbyn in the bin.
My reach must be greater than I thought as the NEC unanimously backed Starmer’s motion yesterday.
Oh and let’s not forget the three leading British Jewish newspapers who fell for my smear campaign. Or the 80% of British Jews. Or the Board of Deputies, the Jewish Labour Movement and the Chief
Rabbi. Hope Not Hate. The EHRC.
What a reach I have.
You’ve soiled yourself defending this grubby little man who brought the Labour Party into disrepute by overseeing a crisis that saw the EHRC find Labour guilty of anti Jewish discrimination under his leadership.
You should have stuck to re posting Russell Brand’s words crackpot and dangerous conspiracies. At least people would have only thought you were a little dim and easily lead, rather than an apologist for antisemitism. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 13:04]
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You appear to have forgotten how to read again. Where have I said your smear campaign contributed to Starmer's decision?
"You've been sticking the boot into Corbyn long after your smear campaign worked" - suggests it worked, and ended, ages ago.
Once again you GlasgowSwerveâ„¢ the more difficult points - "you got the Tory government you wanted (not to mention Brexit)... the country is in the state that it's in because of people like you. You might as well just own it and be proud of it... the truth is the bogeyman's gone and the problems still remain."
Also, no-one actually put an old man in a bin. Just you and your silly avatar.
EDIT TO ADDRESS YOUR EDIT: Actually I'm not going to lower myself. Your pathetic childish insults suggest I've hit the nail on the head. [Post edited 29 Mar 2023 13:11]
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh Jeremy on 13:20 - Mar 29 with 564 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Oh Jeremy on 11:03 - Mar 29 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Indeed.
Swapping alignment from Saudi Arabia to Iran is not progressive or pragmatic. Just a different cheek of the same @rse. |
When are centrists going to realise that they are the bit the actual sh1t comes out of? |  |
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