| diane abbott 12:02 - Apr 23 with 12816 views | lowhouseblue |
in a letter published in the observer she tells us what she really thinks:
"Racism is black and white.
Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from 'racism'. They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships."
so being jewish is no different from being a redhead.
i expect the letter is all made up. diane says it was just an "initial draft". |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| diane abbott on 12:40 - Apr 23 with 1615 views | leitrimblue |
Are people really suggesting that the most racially abused sections of society are white? |  | | |
| diane abbott on 12:42 - Apr 23 with 1589 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| diane abbott on 12:30 - Apr 23 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
She’s just downplayed the discrimination of a minority group, what you say is semantics. |
I haven't read anything about this other than on here but I'm fairly sure I can walk past a Jew without knowing they are Jew but the same would not be true of a black person. Lowhouse's redhead comparison just shows his contempt for anybody vaguely left of Thatcher. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 12:52]
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| diane abbott on 12:43 - Apr 23 with 1574 views | lowhouseblue |
| diane abbott on 12:34 - Apr 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So that's an interesting spin you put on it at the end.....but entirely predictable. |
spin?
how would you read: "... Irish, Jewish and Traveller ... undoubtedly experience prejudice. ... It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice." ?
she mentions prejudice about irish, jewish and traveller people and then the second time she says "this prejudice". the only reading of that is that the two references to prejudice are intended to refer to the same thing.
but it was only an "initial draft". | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| diane abbott on 12:44 - Apr 23 with 1569 views | leitrimblue |
| diane abbott on 12:37 - Apr 23 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
You don’t think travellers face prejudice and police harassment then? |
Clearly not as much as people of colour, as we can walk safely down the street an until we open our mouths ( and sometimes not even then) nobody knows we are travellers.
I imagine that a lot of traveller prejudice and police harassment is suffered by the bigger family groups that camp where there not wanted (some park in Ipswich for example) | | | |
| diane abbott on 12:45 - Apr 23 with 1542 views | noggin |
| diane abbott on 12:44 - Apr 23 by leitrimblue |
Clearly not as much as people of colour, as we can walk safely down the street an until we open our mouths ( and sometimes not even then) nobody knows we are travellers.
I imagine that a lot of traveller prejudice and police harassment is suffered by the bigger family groups that camp where there not wanted (some park in Ipswich for example) |
Well quite. A lot of travellers refuse to live by the laws of the land and therefore feel harassed by the police when moved on. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 12:49]
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| diane abbott on 12:46 - Apr 23 with 1521 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| diane abbott on 12:37 - Apr 23 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
You don’t think travellers face prejudice and police harassment then? |
So who said that? I can guarantee though that you will have stood next to travellers and never known it. | |
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| diane abbott on 12:48 - Apr 23 with 1478 views | leitrimblue |
| diane abbott on 12:45 - Apr 23 by noggin |
Well quite. A lot of travellers refuse to live by the laws of the land and therefore feel harassed by the police when moved on. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 12:49]
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Brehon law only innit | | | |
| diane abbott on 12:49 - Apr 23 with 1445 views | leitrimblue |
| diane abbott on 12:46 - Apr 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So who said that? I can guarantee though that you will have stood next to travellers and never known it. |
Probably at Portman Road... | | | |
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| diane abbott on 12:50 - Apr 23 with 1434 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| diane abbott on 12:40 - Apr 23 by leitrimblue |
Are people really suggesting that the most racially abused sections of society are white? |
Just try being really, really white with red hair and then get back to us. | |
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| diane abbott on 12:50 - Apr 23 with 1427 views | noggin |
| diane abbott on 12:49 - Apr 23 by leitrimblue |
Probably at Portman Road... |
I wondered what the caravan was doing parked in the centre circle. | |
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| diane abbott on 12:53 - Apr 23 with 1408 views | GlasgowBlue |
| diane abbott on 12:40 - Apr 23 by leitrimblue |
Are people really suggesting that the most racially abused sections of society are white? |
The most racially abused section of society are Gypsy, Roma and Traveller people. Despite just 0.3% of the country’s population being Jewish, Jews are more likely to suffer racist assault than almost every other ethnic or religious minority in the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/09/britain-not-close-to-being-a-racia
White supremacists do not see Jews as being white btw. |  |
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| diane abbott on 12:56 - Apr 23 with 1404 views | leitrimblue |
| diane abbott on 12:50 - Apr 23 by noggin |
I wondered what the caravan was doing parked in the centre circle. |
That's a legitimate camp site boss, families been camping here for generations | | | |
| diane abbott on 13:03 - Apr 23 with 1378 views | leitrimblue |
I seen these figures last week and as shocking as they are I just don't think they are as clear as they seem. See my reply above (12:44) | | | |
| diane abbott on 13:11 - Apr 23 with 1322 views | giant_stow |
Leaving the main debate to one side, I wonder why she decided to stir this particular pot now? What's she playing at and to what end? |  |
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| diane abbott on 13:18 - Apr 23 with 1288 views | Darth_Koont |
| diane abbott on 13:11 - Apr 23 by giant_stow |
Leaving the main debate to one side, I wonder why she decided to stir this particular pot now? What's she playing at and to what end? |
You wonder why a long-term anti-racism campaigner is still talking about endemic racism and the continued problems faced by non-whites? And think this is something she’s “playing at”?
I think you’re projecting. |  |
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| diane abbott on 13:25 - Apr 23 with 1259 views | giant_stow |
| diane abbott on 13:18 - Apr 23 by Darth_Koont |
You wonder why a long-term anti-racism campaigner is still talking about endemic racism and the continued problems faced by non-whites? And think this is something she’s “playing at”?
I think you’re projecting. |
Come on Darth you can you do better than that.
Why is she making comments certain to offend Jewish people and others, now? She's already issued a proper apology disowning her own comments on the same morning they were published, so knows they were out of line, so why make them in the first place? And one for you: why are you defending comments she's disowned? | |
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| diane abbott on 13:30 - Apr 23 with 1251 views | DJR |
For the purposes of the Equality Act, it’s race discrimination if you’re treated unfairly because of one of the following things:
colour
nationality
ethnic origin
national origin.
This clearly covers Jewish people and Irish people. It also covers Roma gypsies and Irish travellers who have been recognised by the courts as an ethnic group. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 13:51]
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| diane abbott on 13:32 - Apr 23 with 1223 views | noggin |
| diane abbott on 13:30 - Apr 23 by DJR |
For the purposes of the Equality Act, it’s race discrimination if you’re treated unfairly because of one of the following things:
colour
nationality
ethnic origin
national origin.
This clearly covers Jewish people and Irish people. It also covers Roma gypsies and Irish travellers who have been recognised by the courts as an ethnic group. [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 13:51]
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Not hair colour then? | |
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| diane abbott on 13:36 - Apr 23 with 1188 views | GlasgowBlue |
| diane abbott on 13:25 - Apr 23 by giant_stow |
Come on Darth you can you do better than that.
Why is she making comments certain to offend Jewish people and others, now? She's already issued a proper apology disowning her own comments on the same morning they were published, so knows they were out of line, so why make them in the first place? And one for you: why are you defending comments she's disowned? |
“ Come on Darth you can you do better than that.”
No he can’t. | |
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| diane abbott on 13:37 - Apr 23 with 1187 views | Mullet |
| diane abbott on 12:36 - Apr 23 by Darth_Koont |
I see the Shy and not so Shy Right are out in force.
Will be interesting to see what points you lot actually make. |
"you lot"?!?!? |  |
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| diane abbott on 13:46 - Apr 23 with 1142 views | GlasgowBlue |
| diane abbott on 12:43 - Apr 23 by lowhouseblue |
spin?
how would you read: "... Irish, Jewish and Traveller ... undoubtedly experience prejudice. ... It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice." ?
she mentions prejudice about irish, jewish and traveller people and then the second time she says "this prejudice". the only reading of that is that the two references to prejudice are intended to refer to the same thing.
but it was only an "initial draft". |
“initial draft" suggests this is what she really thinks but felt she needed to tone it down to be publicly acceptable. | |
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| diane abbott on 13:50 - Apr 23 with 1107 views | DJR |
| diane abbott on 13:32 - Apr 23 by noggin |
Not hair colour then? |
It is not a characteristic protected by the Equality Act, unlike, say, religion.
EDIT: Having said that, an employee could well bring a complaint for bullying, harassment or unfair dismissal if singled out solely on the basis of their hair colour (for example, a boss continually using the expression ginger) [Post edited 23 Apr 2023 14:07]
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| diane abbott on 13:51 - Apr 23 with 1105 views | Darth_Koont |
| diane abbott on 13:25 - Apr 23 by giant_stow |
Come on Darth you can you do better than that.
Why is she making comments certain to offend Jewish people and others, now? She's already issued a proper apology disowning her own comments on the same morning they were published, so knows they were out of line, so why make them in the first place? And one for you: why are you defending comments she's disowned? |
Because it’s a clumsy and unnecessarily provocative letter. Making an arbitrary distinction between racism and prejudice (along with the red hair analogy) isn’t legitimate and isn’t helpful to her point.
But I think the underlying argument of how racism is experienced for different groups and based on skin colour is a valid one. Even if we like to pretend that skin colour is no longer an issue.
Certainly, from her own context, the Labour Party which has rightfully been accused of a hierarchy of racism in how it handles racism over the past few years – and indeed how it can welcome islamophobes like Trevor Phillips back in with zero pushback or indeed commentary. | |
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| diane abbott on 13:58 - Apr 23 with 1068 views | Trequartista |
i'm starting to feel quite queasy that i voted for these people at the last general election. |  |
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| diane abbott on 14:00 - Apr 23 with 1056 views | tractordownsouth |
It is a genuine shame to see comments like this, especially as Abbott's political career symbolises a significant moment in moving towards racial equality in British politics*, being the first black woman elected to parliament.
It's good that she's apologised but it's not her first offence so it's difficult to tell what will happen moving forward.
*As a white person, me saying that probably sounds patronising. I recognise we've still got a long way to go, but it was an important milestone. |  |
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