| diane abbott 12:02 - Apr 23 with 12809 views | lowhouseblue |
in a letter published in the observer she tells us what she really thinks:
"Racism is black and white.
Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from 'racism'. They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships."
so being jewish is no different from being a redhead.
i expect the letter is all made up. diane says it was just an "initial draft". |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |  |
| diane abbott on 14:10 - Apr 23 with 1725 views | blueasfook |
Was only a matter of time before the thick bigot dropped herself in it again.
Good riddance to another stain on the Labour Party. Hope her suspension becomes permanent. |  |
| |
| diane abbott on 14:15 - Apr 23 with 1688 views | Trequartista |
| diane abbott on 12:26 - Apr 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
She's made her point really badly, but in no way has she said "being jewish is no different from being a redhead." That's a hot take you've taken to try to make it sound even worse than it is.
This board seems happier and more together than it's been in a long time, so this is also a weird time to post something just looking to create division. |
Ms Abbott has "wholly and unreservedly withdraw my remarks and disassociate myself from them". Not really a hot take if she interprets it that way herself! |  |
| |
| diane abbott on 14:27 - Apr 23 with 1660 views | Trequartista |
| diane abbott on 14:10 - Apr 23 by blueasfook |
Was only a matter of time before the thick bigot dropped herself in it again.
Good riddance to another stain on the Labour Party. Hope her suspension becomes permanent. |
You've got to feel some sense of sadness about it as she pretty much receives more racial abuse than anybody, but its a bit like when Public Enemy got rid of Professor Griff, it's no excuse. | |
| |
| diane abbott on 14:43 - Apr 23 with 1598 views | blueasfook |
| diane abbott on 14:27 - Apr 23 by Trequartista |
You've got to feel some sense of sadness about it as she pretty much receives more racial abuse than anybody, but its a bit like when Public Enemy got rid of Professor Griff, it's no excuse. |
She does, granted. Its a shame because its something that allows her to create a shield to cover up her own rampant bigotry. | |
| |
| diane abbott on 15:03 - Apr 23 with 1556 views | Swansea_Blue |
My take home from this is we can purge redheads. Have I got that right? 
What a stupid letter. I thought she was supposed to be clever? If we go on the basis that she is clever, and knew what she was writing, surely her apology means nothing? She must have known what those comments meant, draft or not. And who the heck would write a draft that wasn’t intended to represent the final message in some form. Like baking a cake as a practice run for building a shed; makes no sense unless what you wanted all along was a cake.
Well done Starmer for taking a firm line. |  |
| |
| diane abbott on 15:31 - Apr 23 with 1508 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| diane abbott on 14:15 - Apr 23 by Trequartista |
Ms Abbott has "wholly and unreservedly withdraw my remarks and disassociate myself from them". Not really a hot take if she interprets it that way herself! |
She's talking about the whole piece. I was talking specifically about Lowhouse's hot take that she said "being jewish is no different from being a redhead" which she quite clearly didn't say, however clumsy the article was. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| diane abbott on 15:36 - Apr 23 with 1463 views | lowhouseblue |
| diane abbott on 15:31 - Apr 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
She's talking about the whole piece. I was talking specifically about Lowhouse's hot take that she said "being jewish is no different from being a redhead" which she quite clearly didn't say, however clumsy the article was. |
how would you read: "... Irish, Jewish and Traveller ... undoubtedly experience prejudice. ... It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience THIS prejudice." ?
she mentions prejudice about irish, jewish and traveller people and then the second time she says "this prejudice". the only reading of that is that the two references to prejudice are intended to refer to the same thing.
if you have some different rules of grammar and literary comprehension do say. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| (No subject) (n/t) on 15:39 - Apr 23 with 1434 views | eireblue |
|  | | |
| diane abbott on 15:56 - Apr 23 with 1360 views | giant_stow |
| diane abbott on 13:51 - Apr 23 by Darth_Koont |
Because it’s a clumsy and unnecessarily provocative letter. Making an arbitrary distinction between racism and prejudice (along with the red hair analogy) isn’t legitimate and isn’t helpful to her point.
But I think the underlying argument of how racism is experienced for different groups and based on skin colour is a valid one. Even if we like to pretend that skin colour is no longer an issue.
Certainly, from her own context, the Labour Party which has rightfully been accused of a hierarchy of racism in how it handles racism over the past few years – and indeed how it can welcome islamophobes like Trevor Phillips back in with zero pushback or indeed commentary. |
I take it you've ready the article that she was replying to with her letter? |  |
| |
| diane abbott on 16:02 - Apr 23 with 1335 views | Darth_Koont |
| diane abbott on 15:56 - Apr 23 by giant_stow |
I take it you've ready the article that she was replying to with her letter? |
Yes. It’s always important to understand the context rather than trying to create a new one. |  |
| |
| diane abbott on 16:14 - Apr 23 with 1306 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| diane abbott on 15:36 - Apr 23 by lowhouseblue |
how would you read: "... Irish, Jewish and Traveller ... undoubtedly experience prejudice. ... It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience THIS prejudice." ?
she mentions prejudice about irish, jewish and traveller people and then the second time she says "this prejudice". the only reading of that is that the two references to prejudice are intended to refer to the same thing.
if you have some different rules of grammar and literary comprehension do say. |
I read it that she's saying the way they experience prejudice is similar, personally (as in a day-to-day basis). That's not the same as saying being Jewish is no different from being a redhead. Obviously there are far more things to factor in/weight of history/war crimes etc.
A child being bullied for having red hair to the extent that they're suicidal could legitimately be having a similar experience to an Irish or a Jewish person being bullied for being Irish or Jewish. It doesn't follow that that means those groups are no different. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| diane abbott on 16:16 - Apr 23 with 1290 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Again, she's apologising for the whole piece, not the specific redhead/Jewishness bit that I was addressing. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| diane abbott on 16:47 - Apr 23 with 1241 views | Trequartista |
| diane abbott on 16:16 - Apr 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Again, she's apologising for the whole piece, not the specific redhead/Jewishness bit that I was addressing. |
I can see i'm wasting my time here. | |
| |
| diane abbott on 16:49 - Apr 23 with 1242 views | NeedhamChris |
| diane abbott on 16:16 - Apr 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Again, she's apologising for the whole piece, not the specific redhead/Jewishness bit that I was addressing. |
She's hardly saying "I apologise for the whole piece except for the section on redheads/Jewishness" either is she. |  |
| |
| diane abbott on 16:59 - Apr 23 with 1212 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| diane abbott on 16:49 - Apr 23 by NeedhamChris |
She's hardly saying "I apologise for the whole piece except for the section on redheads/Jewishness" either is she. |
No, I didn't say she was.
FFS, how is this so difficult?
Lowers: "so being jewish is no different from being a redhead."
Dollers: "She's not actually saying that."
Treq: "She's apologised for what she said, so you're wrong Dollers".
Dollers: "She's apologised for the whole piece (which I already said was bad). She's not specifically apologising for what Lowers claims she said."
Honestly, if you can't understand that I give up!
[Post edited 23 Apr 2023 17:05]
| |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| diane abbott on 17:00 - Apr 23 with 1206 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| diane abbott on 16:47 - Apr 23 by Trequartista |
I can see i'm wasting my time here. |
If you can't read and comprehend what I've actually said then yeah, I guess you are. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| diane abbott on 17:00 - Apr 23 with 1206 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| diane abbott on 12:10 - Apr 23 by Darth_Koont |
I think you know what she means.
But as someone who was more than happy to go to bat for the Tories and back up their shonky report that structural racism doesn’t exist in the UK, then I don’t see you accepting the point.
And yes, there is anti-Jewish racism but that largely works at a completely different level. And certainly needs understanding and fighting against on those terms. |
Hi Darth.
Do you remember the other day when I said ‘With some of the sh*t like you’ve posted on here over the years, you might’ve found yourself fortunate to even be able to post anything at all’ after you attacked me for having an opinion separate to yours?
And you then asked me ‘Feel free to tell me where I’m wrong if you feel that strongly about my views. But I doubt you can.’
Well this is one of those times. You’re defending Abbotts frankly ridiculous comments. |  |
| |
| diane abbott on 17:03 - Apr 23 with 1194 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| diane abbott on 12:10 - Apr 23 by Darth_Koont |
I think you know what she means.
But as someone who was more than happy to go to bat for the Tories and back up their shonky report that structural racism doesn’t exist in the UK, then I don’t see you accepting the point.
And yes, there is anti-Jewish racism but that largely works at a completely different level. And certainly needs understanding and fighting against on those terms. |
You’re a disgrace. |  | | |
| diane abbott on 17:04 - Apr 23 with 1186 views | ElderGrizzly |
| diane abbott on 14:15 - Apr 23 by Trequartista |
Ms Abbott has "wholly and unreservedly withdraw my remarks and disassociate myself from them". Not really a hot take if she interprets it that way herself! |
She’s only racist in draft form, so it’s all ok apparently
|  | | |
| diane abbott on 17:18 - Apr 23 with 1151 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| diane abbott on 15:36 - Apr 23 by lowhouseblue |
how would you read: "... Irish, Jewish and Traveller ... undoubtedly experience prejudice. ... It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience THIS prejudice." ?
she mentions prejudice about irish, jewish and traveller people and then the second time she says "this prejudice". the only reading of that is that the two references to prejudice are intended to refer to the same thing.
if you have some different rules of grammar and literary comprehension do say. |
Just to remove some of the dots and capital letters, this is from the Guardian article.
'Abbott’s letter said that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people “undoubtedly experience prejudice”, but added: “This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable.”
She continued: “It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism.” '
This version somehow seems less sinister than yours although I accept that bringing redheads into the discussion doesn’t advance any point she was trying to make and I don't really see why she was trying to make it other than as a response to the original article which itself is non committal about the survey it is reporting on. |  |
| |
| diane abbott on 17:30 - Apr 23 with 1127 views | Clapham_Junction |
| diane abbott on 15:03 - Apr 23 by Swansea_Blue |
My take home from this is we can purge redheads. Have I got that right?
What a stupid letter. I thought she was supposed to be clever? If we go on the basis that she is clever, and knew what she was writing, surely her apology means nothing? She must have known what those comments meant, draft or not. And who the heck would write a draft that wasn’t intended to represent the final message in some form. Like baking a cake as a practice run for building a shed; makes no sense unless what you wanted all along was a cake.
Well done Starmer for taking a firm line. |
She was clearly a highly intelligent and articulate woman in the past. I'm not really sure what happened to her, but personally I think she has been a liability to the Labour Party for some time now. I used to half wonder if she was invited on QT so often to portray Labour in a bad light.
The best slant you could put on her comments is that she was very clumsily trying to draw a line between visible and invisible minorities, with visible minorities undoubtedly more open to abuse (although of course some white minorities are visible due to their clothing). However, the attempted apology is an insult to people's intelligence.
While I will be quite happy to see her political career come to an end, the current Labour hierarchy are probably licking their lips at an opportunity to fix another selection contest... |  | | |
| diane abbott on 17:33 - Apr 23 with 1122 views | MattinLondon |
| diane abbott on 12:10 - Apr 23 by Darth_Koont |
I think you know what she means.
But as someone who was more than happy to go to bat for the Tories and back up their shonky report that structural racism doesn’t exist in the UK, then I don’t see you accepting the point.
And yes, there is anti-Jewish racism but that largely works at a completely different level. And certainly needs understanding and fighting against on those terms. |
I’m afraid to say that your last paragraph is awful. Racism and xenophobia etc etc should not be seen on some sort of pyramid system. White on black isn’t premier league whilst anti-Irish or traveller bigotry etc relegated to League One.
Racism is designed to humiliate be it physically, mentally or both. It should not be viewed as working on a different level. Maybe you should edit that line?
Rather interesting, Abbott is being targeted with much more vitriol than what many other MPs have been. Not sure why some posters seemingly want to criticise her compared to some of her Parliamentary colleagues. |  | | |
| diane abbott on 17:34 - Apr 23 with 1119 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| diane abbott on 17:30 - Apr 23 by Clapham_Junction |
She was clearly a highly intelligent and articulate woman in the past. I'm not really sure what happened to her, but personally I think she has been a liability to the Labour Party for some time now. I used to half wonder if she was invited on QT so often to portray Labour in a bad light.
The best slant you could put on her comments is that she was very clumsily trying to draw a line between visible and invisible minorities, with visible minorities undoubtedly more open to abuse (although of course some white minorities are visible due to their clothing). However, the attempted apology is an insult to people's intelligence.
While I will be quite happy to see her political career come to an end, the current Labour hierarchy are probably licking their lips at an opportunity to fix another selection contest... |
Agree with this and clearly the lived experience of racism/prejudice is the same for any individual experiencing it in any particular moment. (Even those of a ginger persuasion fwiw.) | |
| |
| diane abbott on 17:38 - Apr 23 with 1090 views | lowhouseblue |
| diane abbott on 17:18 - Apr 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Just to remove some of the dots and capital letters, this is from the Guardian article.
'Abbott’s letter said that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people “undoubtedly experience prejudice”, but added: “This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable.”
She continued: “It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism.” '
This version somehow seems less sinister than yours although I accept that bringing redheads into the discussion doesn’t advance any point she was trying to make and I don't really see why she was trying to make it other than as a response to the original article which itself is non committal about the survey it is reporting on. |
my op quoted her letter in its entirety. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
