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A really hard read 08:43 - Sep 14 with 2759 viewsArnoldMoorhen

Priti Patel and Suella Braverman have blood on their hands for the way they weaponised immigration:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66791416

And all the other Tory MPs who have used hate filled and inflammatory language, voted for budget cuts, privatised immigration services and deliberately turned the process of arrest and removal of immigrants into a failing, never-ending, clogged up nightmare.

So sad.

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A really hard read on 09:04 - Sep 14 with 2269 viewsHerbivore

That's horrific. What an awful sh!thouse of a government we have to treat people so awfully.

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A really hard read on 09:15 - Sep 14 with 2231 viewsitfc_bucks

Christ alive - I knew it was bad, but reading it in black-and-white...what the hell have we become?
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A really hard read on 09:52 - Sep 14 with 2185 viewsBlueBadger

A really hard read on 09:04 - Sep 14 by Herbivore

That's horrific. What an awful sh!thouse of a government we have to treat people so awfully.


Yes, but 8 million Albanian gangsters.

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A really hard read on 10:36 - Sep 14 with 2137 viewsPendejo

By naming those two specifically and not placing the blame on their party, CONservatives, you become, unwittingly, part of the problem. Remove Sue Ellen, does that remove the problem?

The current ruling party have been successfully democratically re-elected 3 times since 2010, evidently enacting the wishes of the electorate (well those that voted for them) on an increasingly hateful basis.
Ironically those that cite problems with (as Mo would say) "immigants" ignore the fact that lack of social housing is totally down to the Tories, as are the suffocation of the NHS and destruction of environmental protections.

Uxbridge and South Ruislip recently returned a Tory replacement for the king of smoke and mirrors. Why? ULEZ expansion? So, in effect voting simultaneously for polluted air and a reduced NHS, less capability for dealing with the resulting problems - well done you, classic turkeys voting for Christmas.t

This ramble? Is there a point?

Yes, please make sure we don't return a Tory government ever again.

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A really hard read on 11:03 - Sep 14 with 2083 viewsSwansea_Blue

A really hard read on 09:04 - Sep 14 by Herbivore

That's horrific. What an awful sh!thouse of a government we have to treat people so awfully.


Washing dishes though Herbs. It doesn't get much worst than that



Agreed, and with the OP. The Secretary of State for departments that oversee failures like this should face charges of corporate manslaughter. The incarceration seems to have certainly led to his death and they failed in their duty of care. Govt ministers seem untouchable though, unfortunately. It's the sort of thing you expect to happen somewhere like Iran, not the UK.

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A really hard read on 11:07 - Sep 14 with 2061 viewsSwansea_Blue

A really hard read on 10:36 - Sep 14 by Pendejo

By naming those two specifically and not placing the blame on their party, CONservatives, you become, unwittingly, part of the problem. Remove Sue Ellen, does that remove the problem?

The current ruling party have been successfully democratically re-elected 3 times since 2010, evidently enacting the wishes of the electorate (well those that voted for them) on an increasingly hateful basis.
Ironically those that cite problems with (as Mo would say) "immigants" ignore the fact that lack of social housing is totally down to the Tories, as are the suffocation of the NHS and destruction of environmental protections.

Uxbridge and South Ruislip recently returned a Tory replacement for the king of smoke and mirrors. Why? ULEZ expansion? So, in effect voting simultaneously for polluted air and a reduced NHS, less capability for dealing with the resulting problems - well done you, classic turkeys voting for Christmas.t

This ramble? Is there a point?

Yes, please make sure we don't return a Tory government ever again.


If you held the Sec of state responsible, I wonder if it would help focus the minds of the others who may then get on with doing the job rather than spending all their efforts on electioneering and profiteering? As it stands with no legal accountability, the cycle of ineptitude can continue as there's absolutely no comeback for the damage they do and misery they cause, except at the ballot box (and that's hardly a foolproof method of rooting out the bad 'uns, as we've seen).

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A really hard read on 11:13 - Sep 14 with 2050 viewsSwansea_Blue

A really hard read on 09:52 - Sep 14 by BlueBadger

Yes, but 8 million Albanian gangsters.


It's ok, the 76 million Turks will see them off

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A really hard read on 11:14 - Sep 14 with 2048 viewsGlasgowBlue

The whole system is a broken mess, caused primarily to fight a culture war and scrape the bottom of the barrel for votes.

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A really hard read on 12:45 - Sep 14 with 1923 viewsArnoldMoorhen

A really hard read on 10:36 - Sep 14 by Pendejo

By naming those two specifically and not placing the blame on their party, CONservatives, you become, unwittingly, part of the problem. Remove Sue Ellen, does that remove the problem?

The current ruling party have been successfully democratically re-elected 3 times since 2010, evidently enacting the wishes of the electorate (well those that voted for them) on an increasingly hateful basis.
Ironically those that cite problems with (as Mo would say) "immigants" ignore the fact that lack of social housing is totally down to the Tories, as are the suffocation of the NHS and destruction of environmental protections.

Uxbridge and South Ruislip recently returned a Tory replacement for the king of smoke and mirrors. Why? ULEZ expansion? So, in effect voting simultaneously for polluted air and a reduced NHS, less capability for dealing with the resulting problems - well done you, classic turkeys voting for Christmas.t

This ramble? Is there a point?

Yes, please make sure we don't return a Tory government ever again.


Had you read to the second paragraph you might have seen that I wrote:

"And all the other Tory MPs..."

So, by singling out every single Tory MP, and drawing everyone's attention to the impact on individuals of the policies they roar support for, I am part of the problem?

Weird response.
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A really hard read on 13:14 - Sep 14 with 1890 viewsBlueNomad

A really hard read on 11:14 - Sep 14 by GlasgowBlue

The whole system is a broken mess, caused primarily to fight a culture war and scrape the bottom of the barrel for votes.


Spot on! It gets the votes of "3-pints of Stella for breakfast" Dave down at 'Spoons and all his red faced mates together with those who identify with 30p-Lee. Many of the people in detention have so much to offer but the government panders to those who, in comparison, don't.
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A really hard read on 13:40 - Sep 14 with 1861 viewslowhouseblue

this is tragic. but there does need to be a system to remove people who are here illegally, including detention where a court thinks there is a risk of them otherwise absconding. but it needs to be quick and effective. the current system is utterly dysfunctional. there is nothing humane in making the process take months. why if someone is offering to buy a flight to go home would you not let them?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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A really hard read on 13:42 - Sep 14 with 1854 viewsDarth_Koont

A really hard read on 10:36 - Sep 14 by Pendejo

By naming those two specifically and not placing the blame on their party, CONservatives, you become, unwittingly, part of the problem. Remove Sue Ellen, does that remove the problem?

The current ruling party have been successfully democratically re-elected 3 times since 2010, evidently enacting the wishes of the electorate (well those that voted for them) on an increasingly hateful basis.
Ironically those that cite problems with (as Mo would say) "immigants" ignore the fact that lack of social housing is totally down to the Tories, as are the suffocation of the NHS and destruction of environmental protections.

Uxbridge and South Ruislip recently returned a Tory replacement for the king of smoke and mirrors. Why? ULEZ expansion? So, in effect voting simultaneously for polluted air and a reduced NHS, less capability for dealing with the resulting problems - well done you, classic turkeys voting for Christmas.t

This ramble? Is there a point?

Yes, please make sure we don't return a Tory government ever again.


I agree that the Tories are the prime targets for this. No other party has done more to devalue humans and their rights.

But this reflects on our political class as a whole and has done for decades. For example, the biggest failure on housing was during the Blair years where existing stock was refurbished but the needed increase in social and/or affordable housing was never pushed. Making matters even worse and giving us the sharp end in today’s housing crisis, house prices and rents were simultaneously allowed to spiral out of control on a wave of cheap credit and a naive belief that the upswing in the global economy was here to stay. It’s been an enormous clusterf%%k.

In a society that is so blithe about imposing austerity and widening the gaps between the haves and the have nots — even to the point of throwing away opportunities for whole generations — it’s no real surprise that migrants are treated so badly. That’s just another symptom of the disease.
[Post edited 14 Sep 2023 13:45]

Pronouns: He/Him

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A really hard read on 14:07 - Sep 14 with 1793 viewsDJR

Meanwhile in Scotland: from the Guardian.

"With immigration a key battleground for the coming general election, there’s a fascinating study from the charity Migration Policy Scotland which finds that Scots are becoming more welcoming to migrants.

The research, which is the first representative study of Scottish attitudes to migration since the independence and Brexit referendums, found that more people want immigration to increase than decrease, with nearly four in 10 people wanting more immigration and less than a third thinking there should be a drop.

This is more positive than a similar survey of Scottish attitudes in 2014 when nearly 60% said they wanted immigration to go down.

The research found that nearly 60% of respondents thought immigration was positive for Scotland, with almost half reporting that immigration had a positive impact in their local area.

This compares with research from Migration Observatory in June which sampled people across Britain, and found that 52% favour a reduction in immigration."
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A really hard read on 15:03 - Sep 14 with 1736 viewsEddyJ

The problem with discussing a topic as divisive as migration is that people are always pushed to extreme positions. Depending on your media source, we should either be shooting boats in the channel or having a completely open doors policy. Extremes sell newspapers.

The reality is somewhere in the middle. We need some migrants and some migrants need us. As a country, we need a sensible discussion about what the right level of migration is; how we best welcome and integrate those migrants; how we grow our infrastructure at an appropriate rate for our population; and how we prioritise those that we let migrate.

Inevitably, there will always be people who try to abuse the system and we need fair and just ways to deal with this. But we should be treating everyone as a human. What happened in the case of Frank Ospina is sad and needs to be investigated.
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A really hard read on 15:12 - Sep 14 with 1712 viewsDarth_Koont

A really hard read on 15:03 - Sep 14 by EddyJ

The problem with discussing a topic as divisive as migration is that people are always pushed to extreme positions. Depending on your media source, we should either be shooting boats in the channel or having a completely open doors policy. Extremes sell newspapers.

The reality is somewhere in the middle. We need some migrants and some migrants need us. As a country, we need a sensible discussion about what the right level of migration is; how we best welcome and integrate those migrants; how we grow our infrastructure at an appropriate rate for our population; and how we prioritise those that we let migrate.

Inevitably, there will always be people who try to abuse the system and we need fair and just ways to deal with this. But we should be treating everyone as a human. What happened in the case of Frank Ospina is sad and needs to be investigated.


You’re quite right. But the words that jumped out were “a sensible discussion”.

I believe that’s impossible within our freakish politics and media landscape that is increasingly divorced from reality and sensible discussion on anything. Let alone a subject like migration that’s already been weaponised and distorted beyond belief over many, many years.

Pronouns: He/Him

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A really hard read on 15:22 - Sep 14 with 1681 viewsSwansea_Blue

A really hard read on 13:40 - Sep 14 by lowhouseblue

this is tragic. but there does need to be a system to remove people who are here illegally, including detention where a court thinks there is a risk of them otherwise absconding. but it needs to be quick and effective. the current system is utterly dysfunctional. there is nothing humane in making the process take months. why if someone is offering to buy a flight to go home would you not let them?


Starmer has indicated that he would look to negotiate a return deal with the EU should he get into power, to replace the one the Tories pulled us out of. That would be a decent start. It's highly unlikely the EU would negotiate one now, but with a change in government and a thawing of relations, who knows.


(The tories are opposed of course because anything to effectively manage the problem hurts their efforts to weaponise migrants).

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A really hard read on 15:41 - Sep 14 with 1630 viewsChampionsofInnsbruck

The fact is, the Tories have let in considerably more immigrants than Labour did during their tenure, they talk a big game about boarders and control, but deliver very little but their supporters lap up the nonsense they come out with up. They seem to go after guys like this though, who had no right to be here, but should have been allowed to leave when he requested. It's a mess. They are the worst Government in my lifetime.
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A really hard read on 15:42 - Sep 14 with 1627 viewsHARRY10

"The current ruling party have been successfully democratically re-elected 3 times since 2010, evidently enacting the wishes of the electorate (well those that voted for them) on an increasingly hateful basis. "

Not strictly true as it omits the fact that the tOries, lied, lied ands lied again. With backing from a rightwing media in the hands of foreign owners.

The shy te I had heard from thses thickos would not seem out of place to the middle age mind. The EU buys all our goods and sells them to us. UK Judges are appointed by the EU. Sentencing is decided by the Human Rights thing (who they ?)

the countrt is reaping the whurkwind of having MPs and a governmenet who see public office as a means to help themselves, not a way to help others.

The trick is to tell stupid peopel (for that's what they are) they will some how benefit from what amounts to theft of public owned property, and money.

Can you blame them when they see a populace not only standing by twhile they thriw the brick through the jewellers window, but pass them the brick ands help them to make off with the 'sparklers'..

2Thye'll be back soon to give us our share" is the often heard bleat. Things have reached this level because these thieves know thickos will support the. Like a dog who goes back to hgis master, no matter how many times he is hit and how badly it is treated.

And as the GE looms near expecxt the lies to be cranked up. Fears that Lab, Lib, SNP, Greens will turn the UK into NK. Whereas it is 13 years of Tory mismanagement that has seen million of people on the breadline. millions homeless or living in substandard housing. dental care worse than it was in the '30s, over 7m waiting for hospital treatment, filthy streets, polluted rivers....

Nothing works now, is the frequently heard cry. But it does. Only not for you. Nor will it, until you get off your knees. Show a bit self respect and stop bleating out 'thems's our betters.

Them's our better orfs, more like - because you spineless toadies let them walk all over you.
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A really hard read on 18:22 - Sep 14 with 1556 viewsDJR

A really hard read on 15:22 - Sep 14 by Swansea_Blue

Starmer has indicated that he would look to negotiate a return deal with the EU should he get into power, to replace the one the Tories pulled us out of. That would be a decent start. It's highly unlikely the EU would negotiate one now, but with a change in government and a thawing of relations, who knows.


(The tories are opposed of course because anything to effectively manage the problem hurts their efforts to weaponise migrants).


Yes, I am often critical of Starmer for being too cautious or too inclined to keep his head down, but he has shown a bit of courage on this today in trying to seek a solution to a problem that is impossible to completely solve.
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A really hard read on 18:47 - Sep 14 with 1504 viewsGlasgowBlue

A really hard read on 15:22 - Sep 14 by Swansea_Blue

Starmer has indicated that he would look to negotiate a return deal with the EU should he get into power, to replace the one the Tories pulled us out of. That would be a decent start. It's highly unlikely the EU would negotiate one now, but with a change in government and a thawing of relations, who knows.


(The tories are opposed of course because anything to effectively manage the problem hurts their efforts to weaponise migrants).


Ironically, the Tories proposed a similar deal in the summer and the EU rejected it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/20b18fbe-3ae7-11ee-81cd-1bf34cc855cb?shareTok

The Tories, The EU, Labour are all using desperate people as a political football.

Quite shameful all round imo.

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A really hard read on 18:54 - Sep 14 with 1493 viewsGlasgowBlue

A really hard read on 18:22 - Sep 14 by DJR

Yes, I am often critical of Starmer for being too cautious or too inclined to keep his head down, but he has shown a bit of courage on this today in trying to seek a solution to a problem that is impossible to completely solve.


You may recall that I floated this idea a few weeks ago.

We'll probably pretend this didn't happen! by GlasgowBlue 22 Aug 2023 10:02
Gerald Knaus put forward an idea that is worthy of discussion, but I don't see the will on the side of the UK Government.

Most of the article is taken up by the legality of the Rwanda plan but the idea put forward by Knaus is headed "A Channel Plan"

https://www.esiweb.org/newsletter/safe-third-countries-rwanda-and-channel-deal


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A really hard read on 18:55 - Sep 14 with 1492 viewsthatbdude

Watch them blame anybody but them. Utter vermin

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A really hard read on 19:21 - Sep 14 with 1452 viewsDJR

A really hard read on 18:54 - Sep 14 by GlasgowBlue

You may recall that I floated this idea a few weeks ago.

We'll probably pretend this didn't happen! by GlasgowBlue 22 Aug 2023 10:02
Gerald Knaus put forward an idea that is worthy of discussion, but I don't see the will on the side of the UK Government.

Most of the article is taken up by the legality of the Rwanda plan but the idea put forward by Knaus is headed "A Channel Plan"

https://www.esiweb.org/newsletter/safe-third-countries-rwanda-and-channel-deal



I do remember this, and this is what the Guardian is reporting today.

Gerald Knaus, the head of the European Stability Initiative thinktank, has welcomed Keir Starmer’s suggestion that he would negotiate a returns agreement with the EU. He points out that, in a report earlier this year, the ESI suggested that, in return for France and other countries agreeing to take back migrants crossing the Channel, the UK should agree to take in 40,000 asylum seekers per year. Here is an extract.

"Currently the EU is responding to irregular migration to the UK the way Turkey responds to irregular migration from it to the EU: no legal returns of those who cross the water have been possible. For this to change, France, Germany, and others forming a coalition of the willing would need to offer to the UK that they – not Rwanda – will take everyone back who crosses the Channel, as soon as the UK has processed them in line with its laws.

The UK in turn should agree to resettle refugees or asylum seekers, who are now in the European partner countries, through legal ways. If the UK were to offer to take 40,000 people a year for three years, this would be real solidarity with France, Germany or the Netherlands.

Why 40,000? Last year, Germany granted protection to more than 128,000 people. Austria (population 9 million) to more than 17,000. In 2022, France had 150,000 asylum applications and granted 50,000 people international protection, including decisions on appeal and resettlement. The UK had 90,000 asylum applications and gave 25,000 people some form of protection, including decisions on appeal and resettlement (all excluding Ukrainian refugees).

For the UK, such cooperation would bring back control. And the commitment to resettle would ensure a continued interest on the other side of the channel in cooperation."
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A really hard read on 19:36 - Sep 14 with 1436 viewsSwansea_Blue

A really hard read on 18:47 - Sep 14 by GlasgowBlue

Ironically, the Tories proposed a similar deal in the summer and the EU rejected it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/20b18fbe-3ae7-11ee-81cd-1bf34cc855cb?shareTok

The Tories, The EU, Labour are all using desperate people as a political football.

Quite shameful all round imo.


Yep, that’s why I don’t think that’s possible now or in the future under this government. Maybe a change of government and a more open, collaborative approach (on all matters, not just this one) may open that up for discussion again. That’s only a maybe of course and I think it’s still a long shot, but you never know and I can only see relations improve if/when Labour get in.

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A really hard read on 19:50 - Sep 14 with 1413 viewsDJR

A really hard read on 18:47 - Sep 14 by GlasgowBlue

Ironically, the Tories proposed a similar deal in the summer and the EU rejected it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/20b18fbe-3ae7-11ee-81cd-1bf34cc855cb?shareTok

The Tories, The EU, Labour are all using desperate people as a political football.

Quite shameful all round imo.


I think that is a bit harsh on what Starmer has proposed today.

According to Mujtaba Rahman-

"it is apparently Starmer’s intention to agree a “return policy” with the EU. Any unauthorsised migrants reaching Kent would be returned to France/the EU. This would discourage/destroy the small boats traffic. BUT the UK would in return accept an agreed number of migrants."

As Downing Street today ruled out ever accepting an asylum seeker quota sharing deal with the EU, this suggests that, to use Rahman's words, it thinks "it can get something for nothing" which may well explain why the government got nowhere in the summer.
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