| How do you close the athleticism gap? 12:32 - Nov 27 with 6762 views | itfcjoe |
Because that is what separates the top players from the rest at every level.
There were a couple of moments in the Fulham game when Harry Clarke and Kayden Jackson were relatively easily chased down by no-name players that you wouldn't associate with being anything special and you realise the difference between physicality levels in the PL compared to the Championship
Felt a few moments like that on Saturday, where they were just bigger, faster, stronger and at some point we need to upgrade squad to be able to cope with that which obviously costs money.
Are there shortcuts to this? Can our existing squad be upgraded to the levels required? Are we seeing some hit their ceiling? Has our recruitment helped with this?
Lots of questions, but does make you realise how important this January is going to be as we try to capitalise on our incredible start |  |
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:08 - Nov 27 with 1478 views | homer_123 |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:01 - Nov 27 by textbackup |
Yes and no, imagine 11 Tony Mowbrays… we’d be seriously switched on, but rather slow in our approach |
The ideal of course is you have both.
But, if you can't have both, I'd have the intelligence. No point having 11 players running around like headless chickens. |  |
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:22 - Nov 27 with 1452 views | jontysnut |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 13:28 - Nov 27 by tractorboy1978 |
I don’t think it is all about brawn and physicality. You can see that Williams, Davis and Hutchinson have the sort of athleticism that Joe is getting at. I thought we missed Hutchinson on Saturday and I’d be interested to know if he was in line to start because it was the sort of game that would have suited him.
I think Tuanzebe will ultimately get into the side and be a regular and I think the same with Hutchinson. Recruiting players that have PL athleticism and upper Championship/lower Prem technical capabilities to suit the style we play is going to be costly! You look at Downes and he’s absolutely perfect but he’s probably a £12m player now. [Post edited 27 Nov 2023 13:29]
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I think there is an element of physicality involved across all sports now. Rugby players are are all enormous, fast bowlers, centre backs. Would we ever see a Des Walker type again? |  | | |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:25 - Nov 27 with 1446 views | textbackup |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:08 - Nov 27 by homer_123 |
The ideal of course is you have both.
But, if you can't have both, I'd have the intelligence. No point having 11 players running around like headless chickens. |
Did someone just say Gwion Edwards?! |  |
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:34 - Nov 27 with 1417 views | itfcjoe |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:22 - Nov 27 by jontysnut |
I think there is an element of physicality involved across all sports now. Rugby players are are all enormous, fast bowlers, centre backs. Would we ever see a Des Walker type again? |
Physicality isn't just size though, it's running power, running speed, ability to keep going etc
Someone like Jack Taylor doesn't look physically imposing, but you see him still sprinting late into games and getting around the pitch - this is all part of the next level of physicality that we need to step up the squad with.
Someone like Nathan Broadhead is really lacking there, he's prob our best attacking player - but can his physical levels be brought up to turn him into a PL player? | |
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:51 - Nov 27 with 1379 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
some good points on this thread, things I've been thinking about all season. We started in August with a team that seemed fitter and faster than almost everyone but that does seem to have faded somewhat. If you have players with the football brain/touch and combine with top level athleticism then they will probably already be in the Prem. I do think we have some - which is why I think Tuanzebe and Baggott will be our 1st choice centre backs by the season's end. There was a couple of times v Fulham where Baggott showed incredible pace. That is a PL centre back in the making. Davis, Hirst, Walton, Hladky, Williams, all look like they can make the step up. But McKenna will know the data on their athleticism and how it compares to Prem players. Kayden and Clarke probably have the athleticism, but maybe not the touch / skill. Maybe some will surprise and with more work in the gym and on the training ground, improve sufficiently to make the step up. But it is probably going to take a bit of yo-yoing to bring in players with all the attributes to consolidate in the PL. |  |
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:55 - Nov 27 with 1372 views | jontysnut |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:34 - Nov 27 by itfcjoe |
Physicality isn't just size though, it's running power, running speed, ability to keep going etc
Someone like Jack Taylor doesn't look physically imposing, but you see him still sprinting late into games and getting around the pitch - this is all part of the next level of physicality that we need to step up the squad with.
Someone like Nathan Broadhead is really lacking there, he's prob our best attacking player - but can his physical levels be brought up to turn him into a PL player? |
Yep good point. There have always been players who are box to box with good engines etc but it helps if you can physically impose on the opposition as well. Not to mention having the technique, intelligence and resilience to play at the highest level. Who'd fancy marking Erling Haaland. | | | |
| Surely it's just an inevitable symptom.... on 17:03 - Nov 27 with 1360 views | Bloots |
....of the "shops" we've been shopping in.
Over the last couple of years we've been buying players that are either:
a. Athletic, but lacking in skill/intelligence.
b. Skillful/intelligent, but lacking in athleticism.
c. Average across all departments.
In my opinion Hirst is the perfect example. He's big, but not quite big enough, strong, but not quite strong enough, skillful, but not quite skillful enough, etc, etc.
With the level of coaching we offer, coupled with the "feelgood factor" we have been able to wring every ounce of ability and performance from them and as a result the performances have been really positive. But it can only take us so far.
To compete consistently at the very top end of this league and therefore the lower end of the Prem, we are going to have to start looking in the more expensive shops.
Unfortunately, that's the modern game. |  |
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| Surely it's just an inevitable symptom.... on 17:11 - Nov 27 with 1338 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Surely it's just an inevitable symptom.... on 17:03 - Nov 27 by Bloots |
....of the "shops" we've been shopping in.
Over the last couple of years we've been buying players that are either:
a. Athletic, but lacking in skill/intelligence.
b. Skillful/intelligent, but lacking in athleticism.
c. Average across all departments.
In my opinion Hirst is the perfect example. He's big, but not quite big enough, strong, but not quite strong enough, skillful, but not quite skillful enough, etc, etc.
With the level of coaching we offer, coupled with the "feelgood factor" we have been able to wring every ounce of ability and performance from them and as a result the performances have been really positive. But it can only take us so far.
To compete consistently at the very top end of this league and therefore the lower end of the Prem, we are going to have to start looking in the more expensive shops.
Unfortunately, that's the modern game. |
Been said numerous times on here but that elusive striker really is the key one this January. We evidently didn't intend to go into this season with Hirst as the main man, or certainly not the undisputed main man anyway. [Post edited 27 Nov 2023 17:12]
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| Yep, we need to take.... on 17:18 - Nov 27 with 1313 views | Bloots |
| Surely it's just an inevitable symptom.... on 17:11 - Nov 27 by tractorboy1978 |
Been said numerous times on here but that elusive striker really is the key one this January. We evidently didn't intend to go into this season with Hirst as the main man, or certainly not the undisputed main man anyway. [Post edited 27 Nov 2023 17:12]
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....whatever we can for Ladapo, and replace him with an upgrade on Hirst.
Sounds harsh, but it's the reality if we want to have a real go at promotion this season.
If only it was as easy as that though. | |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 18:17 - Nov 27 with 1260 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
There is some truth in what you say and there is a big drop off between our first 11 and the replacement 11. However, there is a reason why we are 10 points better off than West Brom. I don't think they were simply fitter. They got their tactics right and ours just didn't work. For some reason West Brom were able to beat our press with ease and we rarely beat theirs at all. On the occasions we did, we didn't go for the jugular. Overall a poor day at the office but against a side that has conceded 7 goals in 9 games at home. Defend the corner better and they might not have been so comfortable.
Ultimately, our players are better than this time last year. It is a combination of bringing in better and improving what we have. That also increases value in what we have too. I wonder how much each of our players would have fetched in the market last season compared to now. I would imagine all of them have appreciated in value. [Post edited 27 Nov 2023 18:19]
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| With a few more transfer windows (n/t) on 18:26 - Nov 27 with 1236 views | Dyland |
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 18:32 - Nov 27 with 1219 views | nrb1985 |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 13:19 - Nov 27 by Steve_M |
I thought it showed against Leeds as well too, as much as that was perhaps a secondary factor as to why we lost that day. Definitely a big part of the reason why Chaplin and Broadhead were so much less involved on Saturday which in turn is a big part of the reason we were so limited in threat.
I suppose that ultimately it's part of the incremental improvement to the squad that we will need across successive transfer windows, and also what we didn't manage to do last Summer.
The short cut question is harder, probably depends on individuals, Wolfenden has got stronger over the last 18 months and Clarke should have the physicality to compete at a higher level but there are is a larger number of players who might be closer to the ceiling in terms of ability, physicality or both.
I suspect that the best short cut is getting promoted, and using the extra money to improve the squad more qucikly. |
Agree with this and the OP.
Chaplin in particular has all the technique but lacks the pace and physicality in my opinion to consistently be a top level champ/lower PL player like a Cairney for example.
Chaplin this year has felt to me like he's a kind of Michael Owen/Vardy type player in as much as, if he isn't scoring, he's not really contributing a great deal. Saturday a good example of this albeit everyone bar Williams had a bit of a stinker.
Broadhead just looks like he needs a rest tbh. [Post edited 27 Nov 2023 18:33]
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 19:16 - Nov 27 with 1188 views | DavoIPB |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 12:59 - Nov 27 by unstableblue |
Joe,
I generally agree with your point.
But I think we need to be a little careful we don't use Saturday night at the Hawthorns as an exemplar of where Town's squad is now, and how it benchmarks against the Premier League. The WBA manager set them up very well, is a great coach, they wanted it more, and we had a number of players who are out of form or didn't show up. We were losing all the battles. Their coach's post match summary suggested he told his players, come with your A game, because if not Ipswich have a method that is resilient and will be too strong for us.
BUT, at Southampton away, where we faced another Premier level side, yes we weathered an early storm and were second best. But once we grew into the game, we were the physically dominant side, we bossed the game from a stamina and fitness perspective. Omari is slight, but he wanted it more than them, they were bouncing off Burns
Our front 4 were misfiring on the weekend, Broadhead and Burns especially, and that meant we weren't putting West Brom on the back foot. Combine with some rustiness from our centre backs. We got owned by their energy, strength and pace. Burns is a physical lad and he had early joy, but lacked composure and his head dropped.
I actually compare the West Brom game to the seasons where we used to get owned by Warne's Rotherham - they're not Premiership quality players - but over a number of games they used to come to PR and just steam roll us. And we never had a reply, and looked physically inferior.
But I do agree upgrades will be needed across the team - which we all knew - a bit of pace, strength is needed to boss teams, and have any chance in the Premiership - where teams such as Spurs are way bigger than you realise. Even our terrier Morsy was struggling with the scale of his markers, but did OK, because he just wanted it more.
Let's see where we are come Saturday evening. Coventry were on top against West Brom for large periods in a game I saw recently, and Millwall are no shrinking violets.
Down to McKenna to fire them up, get the system that we can fall back on when facing adversity firing.. and we desperately need Burns and Broadhead to have a good game and hit form - if a team is sh!tting themselves about our runners then thy change behaviours... sadly it was reversed at the Hawthorns. [Post edited 27 Nov 2023 13:01]
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Sorry disagree with this. They were physically stronger and much quicker than us. The only player who matched them was Williams who I thought had an outstanding game. Can see why he was a premier League player.
Morsy was so slow in midfield as well as Hirst who was muscled off the ball every time. This game showed the difference between a strong championship side and Ipswich. | | | |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 20:17 - Nov 27 with 1140 views | Swansea_Blue |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 16:34 - Nov 27 by itfcjoe |
Physicality isn't just size though, it's running power, running speed, ability to keep going etc
Someone like Jack Taylor doesn't look physically imposing, but you see him still sprinting late into games and getting around the pitch - this is all part of the next level of physicality that we need to step up the squad with.
Someone like Nathan Broadhead is really lacking there, he's prob our best attacking player - but can his physical levels be brought up to turn him into a PL player? |
Quite right. Size isn’t everything, as I keep telling the Mrs.
And more seriously, Messi is the perfect example - not big, but great agility and hard to knock off the ball. Tough as nails too despite being up to a foot shorter than defenders. Chappers would be out equivalent. I suppose balance and ability is still physicality though, just on a different access to brute strength. |  |
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 20:38 - Nov 27 with 1125 views | Kropotkin123 |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 13:09 - Nov 27 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
"they wanted it more". Never understood that point of view in football.
You mention the quiet days of Broadhead and Chaplin, but I think that was as a consequence of physicality. Chaplin was getting touched off the ball and Broadhead lost almost every single 50/50.
But do agree with you overall point that we shouldn't use that game as the benchmark. Not many teams will win there. |
 Supple: Some Players Didn't Care If We Won or Lost 15th Sep 2009 07:41Former Town keeper Shane Supple says discovering that some players didn’t care whether the team won or lost was one of the reasons he decided to give up football at the age of 22. Supple made the shock decision to leave the Blues and football last month.  27
- We had it here for years, so I don't understand how an Ipswich fan who has witnessed the past 20 years can't understand it. For all I dislike about Mick, it is an area he fixed.
To apply it to WBA or this squad seems off to me. This team has heaps of desire and ambition. It may look like not wanting it more, but don't believe that is actually it. |  |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 20:41 - Nov 27 with 1121 views | DavoIPB |
| How do you close the athleticism gap? on 12:59 - Nov 27 by unstableblue |
Joe,
I generally agree with your point.
But I think we need to be a little careful we don't use Saturday night at the Hawthorns as an exemplar of where Town's squad is now, and how it benchmarks against the Premier League. The WBA manager set them up very well, is a great coach, they wanted it more, and we had a number of players who are out of form or didn't show up. We were losing all the battles. Their coach's post match summary suggested he told his players, come with your A game, because if not Ipswich have a method that is resilient and will be too strong for us.
BUT, at Southampton away, where we faced another Premier level side, yes we weathered an early storm and were second best. But once we grew into the game, we were the physically dominant side, we bossed the game from a stamina and fitness perspective. Omari is slight, but he wanted it more than them, they were bouncing off Burns
Our front 4 were misfiring on the weekend, Broadhead and Burns especially, and that meant we weren't putting West Brom on the back foot. Combine with some rustiness from our centre backs. We got owned by their energy, strength and pace. Burns is a physical lad and he had early joy, but lacked composure and his head dropped.
I actually compare the West Brom game to the seasons where we used to get owned by Warne's Rotherham - they're not Premiership quality players - but over a number of games they used to come to PR and just steam roll us. And we never had a reply, and looked physically inferior.
But I do agree upgrades will be needed across the team - which we all knew - a bit of pace, strength is needed to boss teams, and have any chance in the Premiership - where teams such as Spurs are way bigger than you realise. Even our terrier Morsy was struggling with the scale of his markers, but did OK, because he just wanted it more.
Let's see where we are come Saturday evening. Coventry were on top against West Brom for large periods in a game I saw recently, and Millwall are no shrinking violets.
Down to McKenna to fire them up, get the system that we can fall back on when facing adversity firing.. and we desperately need Burns and Broadhead to have a good game and hit form - if a team is sh!tting themselves about our runners then thy change behaviours... sadly it was reversed at the Hawthorns. [Post edited 27 Nov 2023 13:01]
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Sorry disagree with this. They were physically stronger and much quicker than us. The only player who matched them was Williams who I thought had an outstanding game. Can see why he was a premier League player.
Morsy was so slow in midfield as well as Hirst who was muscled off the ball every time. This game showed the difference between a strong championship side and Ipswich. | | | |
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