| Are we ? 07:29 - Mar 5 with 4076 views | cressi |
AS some Plymouth fan pointed out we are a bit of a dirty side twenty two fouls Saturday which was double the average in the premiership and championship. The nearest to us was sixteen. He worked out with ball in play and when we were out of possession we committed a foul almost every minute. Myself I'm loving it I want us to fight disrupt for every ball we have rolled over in the past only winners to put our shirt on hence why we have lost less than anyone and come back from losing to take more points than anyone long may it continue. |  | | |  |
| Are we ? on 09:50 - Mar 5 with 1047 views | Europablue |
| Are we ? on 07:49 - Mar 5 by Buhrer |
I thought we were strong and cynically made some fouls fighting for the ball, I think they were lightweight and cynically went down whenever they couldn't win the ball. We progressively dominated them as the second half went on, we just looked fitter, and fiercer. Winning. |
Exactly. I'd rather say that Plymouth are a dishonest team who try to con the ref and the ref seemed to ignore all of the fouls on Moore just because he's a big fella.
As effective as it is, I'm not a fan of Chaplin exaggerating or feigning injury to give the team a breather and give the manager a chance to send some instructions to the players. It's a tough one. Maybe I'm too honest, and if you don't do stuff like that, the opposition will just take advantage of your softness. | | | |
| Are we ? on 09:53 - Mar 5 with 1035 views | Radlett_blue |
| Are we ? on 09:29 - Mar 5 by GeoffSentence |
Joint 5th fouliest team in the division according to this
https://www.thepunterspage.com/fouls-stats/
Unsurprisingly Sam and Mass make up about a quarter of that
But does that mean we are dirty? That depends on how you define dirty. I'd say that to be dirty there needs to be a high level of three elements in the foul play:
1. cynical
2. reckless
3. dangerous
There aren't any stats for that, but the evidence of my eyes is that we aren't any of those. |
While McKenna's Town play attractive, passing football, he's very keen on having 2 players at the base of the midfield who can both mix it a bit. That's why he signed Travis, who is cut from the same cloth as Morsy. |  |
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| Are we ? on 10:03 - Mar 5 with 1018 views | Europablue |
| Are we ? on 08:55 - Mar 5 by Sharkey |
I folowed the game on the 'chat' on Saturday in the first half. People were noting that the ref was whistle-happy.
But I watched the second half and thought the ref was quite happy to allow some pretty robust tackling from both sides, and thought he did well. (As I say, I didn't see the first half.) |
Now you mention it, there was quite a contrast between the refereeing between the halves.
I was watching on TV, so it wasn't easy to see the conditions. It looked like it was raining a lot in the first half and it made it difficult to play, but it was made worse by the referee giving very soft fouls to Plymouth whose players were falling down at the slightest touch, but also man-handling Moore but being swatted off like the annoying gnats they were.
In the second half the conditions improved and the referee played the advantage well. We were able to play the ball around more so perhaps they weren't able to manufacture free kicks from nothing.
The only match I have seen this season in person this season was the reverse fixture at Portman Road. It was painful to watch Plymouth. They are a very dishonest team and it kills the entertainment factor. | | | |
| Are we ? on 10:05 - Mar 5 with 1015 views | Europablue |
| Are we ? on 08:52 - Mar 5 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Galloway ? Good lord he spent more time on the floor.
I was fuming when the Lino gave that shoulder barge (if you can even call it that) against Omari. They both initiated the contact and the guy who was about a foot smaller won. Terrible. [Post edited 5 Mar 8:52]
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I appreciated his contribution. It was a good intervention to direct the ball away from the keeper for his goal. | | | |
| Are we ? on 10:08 - Mar 5 with 1014 views | rickw |
As others have said that Plymouth seemed to have a tactic to initiate contact with an Ipswich player then throw themselves to the floor and first half the ref gave them a free kick every time. I don't know if at half time a linesman or someone else had a word with him or maybe he just saw replays and realised what was going on and gave them a lot less second half - which then allowed us to play |  |
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| Are we ? on 11:55 - Mar 5 with 945 views | Basuco |
| Are we ? on 10:08 - Mar 5 by rickw |
As others have said that Plymouth seemed to have a tactic to initiate contact with an Ipswich player then throw themselves to the floor and first half the ref gave them a free kick every time. I don't know if at half time a linesman or someone else had a word with him or maybe he just saw replays and realised what was going on and gave them a lot less second half - which then allowed us to play |
During a break in play at around 40 minute mark both Morsy and Chappers had a long chat with the ref after a string of freekicks given for minimal contact against us, but very few for us when Plymouth player went in hard. First half the ref was giving a freekick every a Plymouth player went to ground. There were two non tackles by Hutch when he cleverly and cleanly won the ball, but when the Plymouth player took a dive they won the freekick. He defiantly changed second half to be more consistent over how much contact was a foul. |  | | |
| Are we ? on 12:30 - Mar 5 with 922 views | BiGDonnie |
| Are we ? on 09:08 - Mar 5 by ArnieM |
I don't think we are a dirty side at . I'm sick of seeing opposition players take a dive as soon as they are touched. Yet our players seconds later get belted , and we get absolutely nothing from the officials. We see this every week without fail.
Saturday , Plymouth were diving all over the place. Its was embarrassing to see. and clearly coached. The ref was in their back pocket all afternoon. |
At what minute tonight will you post your usual dribble about super Woolf? |  |
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| Are we ? on 12:58 - Mar 5 with 897 views | braveblue |
Some of the soft fouls were embarrassing. The ref was awful. | | | |
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| Are we ? on 13:06 - Mar 5 with 886 views | Vaughan8 |
SOmetimes I don't think we "calibrate" the ref very well to start off with.
We aren't soft, lets put it that way. Are we dirty? not really. Giving away fouls doesn't necessarily mean you're dirty. | | | |
| Are we ? on 13:31 - Mar 5 with 869 views | withyblue |
We are very good at knowing when to concède free-kicks or take yellow cards if nécessary. But we are also very well disciplined. No more horrific tackles like Jackson's against Sunderland a few years ago or Hyam's on Alan Judge. | | | |
| Are we ? on 13:36 - Mar 5 with 856 views | Europablue |
| Are we ? on 13:06 - Mar 5 by Vaughan8 |
SOmetimes I don't think we "calibrate" the ref very well to start off with.
We aren't soft, lets put it that way. Are we dirty? not really. Giving away fouls doesn't necessarily mean you're dirty. |
It often feels like we are either surprised by the way the opposition sets up, don't read the type of game the ref is allowing to be played, or maybe the opposition have energy. I always feel happy all square at half time ready for KM to sort out the tactics and the team to turn on the burners. | | | |
| Are we ? on 13:43 - Mar 5 with 845 views | Vegtablue |
They were definitely dirtier by the time we'd finished with them, some of those shorts were a write-off!
What is the agreed definition of dirty, cressi?
Case for the prosecution, as pointed out, we are joint-5th in the Championship for fouls committed. We are 2nd for rate of fouling, after factoring in possession of the football (fractionally behind Watford). We may well have the most yellow cards; club discipline stats are different from site to site, which isn't helpful.
Case for the defence, as pointed out, we are one of only two sides to have avoided a red card this season. When viewed in conjunction with our comparatively high fouling rate and high volume of yellow cards, this suggests a highly disciplined group of players. We tread the line almost perfectly, in respect to retaining players on the field (Morsy's yellow accumulation the only blot in our copybook).
Is a high rate of innocuous fouling considered dirty? It is harmless in respect to player health, but likely quite harmful in respect to the opposition's gameplan. We average 12.5 fouls per game and 53.5% possession. Liverpool, by contrast, average 12.4 fouls per game and 60.8% possession. Chelsea average 12.5 fouls per game and 59.0% possession. If we are adjudged to be dirty on account of repetitive fouling, rather than dangerous fouling, we may at least satisfy ourselves that we are less dirty than the current Liverpool and Chelsea sides.
Finally, who is the other team without a red card this season? Corberan's West Brom. Two incredibly disciplined sides, built in the image of their managers, but with very different attitudes to playing without possession. We press high and fast, like Liverpool, while they drop into a tight shape. Ergo they're near the top of the Fair Play table and we may be near the bottom (15th-20th, depending on which table you read). | | | |
| Are we ? on 14:53 - Mar 5 with 800 views | Europablue |
| Are we ? on 13:43 - Mar 5 by Vegtablue |
They were definitely dirtier by the time we'd finished with them, some of those shorts were a write-off!
What is the agreed definition of dirty, cressi?
Case for the prosecution, as pointed out, we are joint-5th in the Championship for fouls committed. We are 2nd for rate of fouling, after factoring in possession of the football (fractionally behind Watford). We may well have the most yellow cards; club discipline stats are different from site to site, which isn't helpful.
Case for the defence, as pointed out, we are one of only two sides to have avoided a red card this season. When viewed in conjunction with our comparatively high fouling rate and high volume of yellow cards, this suggests a highly disciplined group of players. We tread the line almost perfectly, in respect to retaining players on the field (Morsy's yellow accumulation the only blot in our copybook).
Is a high rate of innocuous fouling considered dirty? It is harmless in respect to player health, but likely quite harmful in respect to the opposition's gameplan. We average 12.5 fouls per game and 53.5% possession. Liverpool, by contrast, average 12.4 fouls per game and 60.8% possession. Chelsea average 12.5 fouls per game and 59.0% possession. If we are adjudged to be dirty on account of repetitive fouling, rather than dangerous fouling, we may at least satisfy ourselves that we are less dirty than the current Liverpool and Chelsea sides.
Finally, who is the other team without a red card this season? Corberan's West Brom. Two incredibly disciplined sides, built in the image of their managers, but with very different attitudes to playing without possession. We press high and fast, like Liverpool, while they drop into a tight shape. Ergo they're near the top of the Fair Play table and we may be near the bottom (15th-20th, depending on which table you read). |
What do you make of the feigned injury to kill momentum and adjust tactics? | | | |
| Are we ? on 15:46 - Mar 5 with 755 views | burnbudgiesburn |
| Are we ? on 09:50 - Mar 5 by Europablue |
Exactly. I'd rather say that Plymouth are a dishonest team who try to con the ref and the ref seemed to ignore all of the fouls on Moore just because he's a big fella.
As effective as it is, I'm not a fan of Chaplin exaggerating or feigning injury to give the team a breather and give the manager a chance to send some instructions to the players. It's a tough one. Maybe I'm too honest, and if you don't do stuff like that, the opposition will just take advantage of your softness. |
Love Chappers, but he is 'almost' as good as Eric Gates was at trying to con the ref into giving fouls. | | | |
| Are we ? on 15:53 - Mar 5 with 740 views | Metal_Hacker |
We’re not dirty , just clever ! |  |
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| Are we ? on 16:11 - Mar 5 with 721 views | PhilTWTD |
| Are we ? on 10:08 - Mar 5 by rickw |
As others have said that Plymouth seemed to have a tactic to initiate contact with an Ipswich player then throw themselves to the floor and first half the ref gave them a free kick every time. I don't know if at half time a linesman or someone else had a word with him or maybe he just saw replays and realised what was going on and gave them a lot less second half - which then allowed us to play |
Kieran obliquely made reference to this, said something along the lines that they were trying to make the game stop-start as much as they could. As others have said, there were an awful lot of very soft free-kicks, Galloway in particular seemed to go over whenever touched by Hutchinson.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Are we ? on 16:33 - Mar 5 with 670 views | BiGDonnie |
| Are we ? on 16:11 - Mar 5 by PhilTWTD |
Kieran obliquely made reference to this, said something along the lines that they were trying to make the game stop-start as much as they could. As others have said, there were an awful lot of very soft free-kicks, Galloway in particular seemed to go over whenever touched by Hutchinson.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Yeah, he was really trying to drive them forward from the back  | |
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| Are we ? on 16:43 - Mar 5 with 652 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Are we ? on 09:29 - Mar 5 by GeoffSentence |
Joint 5th fouliest team in the division according to this
https://www.thepunterspage.com/fouls-stats/
Unsurprisingly Sam and Mass make up about a quarter of that
But does that mean we are dirty? That depends on how you define dirty. I'd say that to be dirty there needs to be a high level of three elements in the foul play:
1. cynical
2. reckless
3. dangerous
There aren't any stats for that, but the evidence of my eyes is that we aren't any of those. |
Would red and yellow cards give some indication of that (although clearly some could be for dissent)?
When I watch us, I get the feeling we are not the pushover we once were but I don't see the same level of cynical fouls that many other sides employ frequently.
It would be interesting to see an analysis of officials too as some clearly give most contact as a foul and others allow the game to flow. |  |
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| Are we ? on 16:52 - Mar 5 with 643 views | PhilTWTD |
| Are we ? on 16:33 - Mar 5 by BiGDonnie |
Yeah, he was really trying to drive them forward from the back |
Ha! Took me a second to work that out. Galloway not Callaway, obviously. | | | |
| Are we ? on 17:01 - Mar 5 with 626 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Are we ? on 08:02 - Mar 5 by Cheltenham_Blue |
If we are. Good. We’re doing ok on it aren’t we? |
You are Joe Royle and I claim my five pounds. |  |
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| Are we ? on 17:22 - Mar 5 with 599 views | OldFart71 |
Through history those teams with players like Morsy have been the one's to prosper. The Billy Bremners, Graham Sounesses, Roy Keane's, etc. You have to have a combination of grafters to go along with those more skillful. You also need your forwards to track back and as we know they aren't perhaps as subtle as a defender who will give a forward a little nudge or push therefore they tend in their innocence by doing their job to give fouls away. It just shows that the whole team are grafting in order to get results. The only one's that moan are the fans who team is outbattled crying foul at every opportunity. Town ain't dirty by any means. Go back to the Liverpool's and Leeds of the 70's the Italian sides like Lazio Roma where David Johnson had one of his testicles removed by a tackle . That's what you call dirty. | | | |
| Are we ? on 17:28 - Mar 5 with 594 views | Kropotkin123 |
Sorry, I'm a bit tired with thee newborn and may be conflating games.
There could have been two reds on a different day. The Plymouth player that made the two footed lunge (got away with it as is was tame, but both feet were off the ground and caught Chaplin(?)). Sarmiento could have got a red in a different day, again, it would have been soft.
I don't think we are dirty. Dirty, I associate with players like Keane, Viera, etc who would deliberately foul people with the intention of hurting them. More modern version could be Ramos. These players are emotive and reckless.
I believe we have strong, good tacklers, who are prepared to be cynical at times. I think it could be frustrating to play against our midfield pair. But I don't think they leave feet into there to hurt people like a Gerrard would.
I don't think we'd ever get into a state like Bolton in the play-offs, who were actually a dirty team. |  |
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| Are we ? on 18:05 - Mar 5 with 569 views | Vegtablue |
| Are we ? on 14:53 - Mar 5 by Europablue |
What do you make of the feigned injury to kill momentum and adjust tactics? |
We've employed it twice in quick succession, I think. Don't watch enough football to know if this is common or something more noteworthy, but I'd have to place it in the "unsporting" or "dark arts" category.
If the "dirty" charge extends to utilising these disruptive tools to our benefit, we're undeniably guilty. If instead it demands an element of violence, of dangerous behaviour, we're more innocent than most. Plymouth fell over and claimed foul to an extreme degree on Saturday, which is an aspect of the dark arts that they clearly favour. I prefer repetitive fouling, or sometime over-exuberance to reclaim the ball aha, out of those two options. | | | |
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