| Control-freakery gone mad on 23:44 - Jul 23 with 1342 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 22:45 - Jul 23 by Blueschev |
I’d imagine that anybody who voted Labour would be disgusted that a so called Labour MP wouldn’t vote to abolish this abhorrent legislation that increases child poverty. How on earth could anybody not want to abolish it? What is the point of the Labour Party if this is how they behave? |
I agree in principle. I’m not sure how large an issue lack of funds is though. We all know Labour are most vulnerable to Tory attacks on their spending record (however illogical and incorrect those attacks are). Everyone is asking for more money now. They’ve got a queue of people lining up asking for millions and billions to fix the mess the Tories left. In my area, desperate intervention is needed to prevent several universities going bankrupt imminently. Over 40 more are in severe financial and need help in the short term. All need a different funding model in the medium term (within next 2-3 years). Labour have just said no to any government support for now.
I don’t know if balancing the books and their fiscal rules are genuinely required or just an excuse. The Tories didn’t balance the books. They got the BoR to print money like it was going out of fashion to ease some of the shocks they inflicted on the economy. It seems to me that using QE positively to improve public services would be a better use of that mechanism than bailing out the government after fk ups like Brexit and Liz Truss! |  |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:30 - Jul 24 with 1265 views | lowhouseblue |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 22:45 - Jul 23 by Blueschev |
I’d imagine that anybody who voted Labour would be disgusted that a so called Labour MP wouldn’t vote to abolish this abhorrent legislation that increases child poverty. How on earth could anybody not want to abolish it? What is the point of the Labour Party if this is how they behave? |
labour stood on, and made very explicit that, currently it couldn't afford to do this. it couldn't have been clearer and the manifesto left no doubt. no one voting labour could have been misled. i assume it will be a high priority once a fiscal gap opens up - within a couple of budgets i would suspect. but ignoring its fiscal rules within a couple of weeks and outside a budget would be very bad. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:33 - Jul 24 with 1257 views | lowhouseblue |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 22:52 - Jul 23 by Blueschev |
Jesus Christ what a take. This isn’t about Corbyn, this is about right and wrong. The two child cap places more children in to poverty. Anybody remotely progressive should want it scrapped. What world do we live in where holding this view makes you too left for the Labour Party. It’s insanity. [Post edited 23 Jul 2024 23:00]
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read the names. it's a group intending to act as a sect and as a shadow opposition to the party - it wants to align itself more with corbyn that with the government. they all have form and they were his core backers. anyone with any political nouse knows what they are up to. so well done to starmer for not tolerating their tactics from day one. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:34 - Jul 24 with 1249 views | Roggydem |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 20:37 - Jul 23 by WeWereZombies |
It's a difficult one, Labour have a big job on to steady the ship and repair the fiscal mayhem left behind by the Conservatives so I can understand the cautious approach by Reeves on this one. But to suspend the MPs for six months seems harsh. If the SNP had an ulterior motive of unsettling Labour with this proposal then they appear to have succeeded. |
The state of the countries economy was caused by closing businesses, handing our tonnes of furlough money and giving people 'free' covid jabs just to be clear. Something both parties supported.
If you can't support more than two kids don't have more than two kids. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 7:37]
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:37 - Jul 24 with 1242 views | DJR |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 21:51 - Jul 23 by Trequartista |
Duffield is not exactly flavour of the month with Starmer either over her gender critical views, so i think it would have been eight. |
I think it is more a case of Starmer not being the flavour of the month in the right wing press given his treatment of Duffield. There would have been a tremendous fury in the press had he suspended her because the press would have blamed it on her views on gender issues and for that reason I don't think he would have done it. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 7:39]
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:42 - Jul 24 with 1209 views | NeedhamChris |
There's a lot of people here upset that Keir is sticking to his manifesto and pre election position for now. I thought that's what you wanted?
It'll obviously change, he's just preparing the ground for it with the review etc.
Some people need to understand how politics works, and the need for party discipline. | |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:43 - Jul 24 with 1207 views | DJR |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:30 - Jul 24 by lowhouseblue |
labour stood on, and made very explicit that, currently it couldn't afford to do this. it couldn't have been clearer and the manifesto left no doubt. no one voting labour could have been misled. i assume it will be a high priority once a fiscal gap opens up - within a couple of budgets i would suspect. but ignoring its fiscal rules within a couple of weeks and outside a budget would be very bad. |
And seven out of over 400 Labour MPs voting against would have made no difference on the Labour manifesto stance, and would have passed without a whimper, whereas suspending them has given the issue much more prominent than it would otherwise have had. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 7:43]
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:45 - Jul 24 with 1197 views | DJR |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:34 - Jul 24 by Roggydem |
The state of the countries economy was caused by closing businesses, handing our tonnes of furlough money and giving people 'free' covid jabs just to be clear. Something both parties supported.
If you can't support more than two kids don't have more than two kids. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 7:37]
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Why punish the children though? And what if you have a child, and then twins? | | | |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:50 - Jul 24 with 1174 views | lowhouseblue |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:43 - Jul 24 by DJR |
And seven out of over 400 Labour MPs voting against would have made no difference on the Labour manifesto stance, and would have passed without a whimper, whereas suspending them has given the issue much more prominent than it would otherwise have had. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 7:43]
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while the issue is an important one, it's naive to believe that is all this is about. the core corbyn supporter group tried to put a marker down and to rally behind their hero. they were trying to establish themselves from day one as above the party and as a shadow opposition who intend to follow corbyn through the lobbies as and when called. starmer, quite rightly, is having none of it. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:51 - Jul 24 with 1167 views | DJR |
The Guardian described the suspension as unprecedented, and anyone concerned with democracy and freedom should be very concerned with MPs being cajoled into voting only one way.
As it is, the vote on the Iraq war was a three-line whip, and 84 Labour MPs voted against and were not suspended, so woe betide if we ever get into an Iraq war situation again.
As Starmer rightly said, it should be country first, party second, or were these just hollow words and a soundbite? | | | |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:54 - Jul 24 with 1140 views | bluelagos |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:34 - Jul 24 by Roggydem |
The state of the countries economy was caused by closing businesses, handing our tonnes of furlough money and giving people 'free' covid jabs just to be clear. Something both parties supported.
If you can't support more than two kids don't have more than two kids. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 7:37]
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Circumstances change.
Not all pregnancies are planned.
Your judgemental sneering at those in poverty shows a lack of empathy that is quite enlightening.
Being a tw*t is a choice too. |  |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:57 - Jul 24 with 1126 views | thebooks |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 23:44 - Jul 23 by Swansea_Blue |
I agree in principle. I’m not sure how large an issue lack of funds is though. We all know Labour are most vulnerable to Tory attacks on their spending record (however illogical and incorrect those attacks are). Everyone is asking for more money now. They’ve got a queue of people lining up asking for millions and billions to fix the mess the Tories left. In my area, desperate intervention is needed to prevent several universities going bankrupt imminently. Over 40 more are in severe financial and need help in the short term. All need a different funding model in the medium term (within next 2-3 years). Labour have just said no to any government support for now.
I don’t know if balancing the books and their fiscal rules are genuinely required or just an excuse. The Tories didn’t balance the books. They got the BoR to print money like it was going out of fashion to ease some of the shocks they inflicted on the economy. It seems to me that using QE positively to improve public services would be a better use of that mechanism than bailing out the government after fk ups like Brexit and Liz Truss! |
I think this is more just a tactical error. The cap will be lifted; Starmer just wants to go through some sort of pointless “review” to make sure it looks like he’s being prudent.
He should have just ignored the 7. Who does he need to impress? He’s a couple of weks into a government with a 180-odd majority, and this is an issue all his MPs agree on. The public isn’t going to punish him if he finds the money to do it.
I agree he has a ton of issues to fix (I work for a uni, so I know the huge problems in the sector!), but this is a quick fix – it’s not infrastructure, and it would go a long way to placating his party. It would also improve the lives of 000,000s of children. |  | | |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:58 - Jul 24 with 1119 views | bluelagos |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:33 - Jul 24 by lowhouseblue |
read the names. it's a group intending to act as a sect and as a shadow opposition to the party - it wants to align itself more with corbyn that with the government. they all have form and they were his core backers. anyone with any political nouse knows what they are up to. so well done to starmer for not tolerating their tactics from day one. |
Ian Byrne is a decent man. His work on foodbanks is second to none.
He is a man of principle, hard work and has won parliamentary awards.
Met him a few times and your characterisation of him is ridiculous in the extreme.
Make no comment on the other rebels. | |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:59 - Jul 24 with 1114 views | DJR |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:57 - Jul 24 by thebooks |
I think this is more just a tactical error. The cap will be lifted; Starmer just wants to go through some sort of pointless “review” to make sure it looks like he’s being prudent.
He should have just ignored the 7. Who does he need to impress? He’s a couple of weks into a government with a 180-odd majority, and this is an issue all his MPs agree on. The public isn’t going to punish him if he finds the money to do it.
I agree he has a ton of issues to fix (I work for a uni, so I know the huge problems in the sector!), but this is a quick fix – it’s not infrastructure, and it would go a long way to placating his party. It would also improve the lives of 000,000s of children. |
Personally, I don't think they want to lift the cap because it would be portrayed in the right wing press as supporting the feckless, and the commission is a way of kicking it into the long grass and coming up with some other way of trying to deal with it or fudge it.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:01]
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:00 - Jul 24 with 1113 views | DJR |
Why does everything come back to Corbyn? He is no longer leader or even a member of the party. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:00]
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:05 - Jul 24 with 1094 views | thebooks |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:59 - Jul 24 by DJR |
Personally, I don't think they want to lift the cap because it would be portrayed in the right wing press as supporting the feckless, and the commission is a way of kicking it into the long grass and coming up with some other way of trying to deal with it or fudge it.
[Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:01]
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Yes, there is one side of me that thinks their sole purpose is to triangulate and placate – that’s the actual goal.
There are probably enough Lab MPs to cause Starmer a problem if it’s not removed, though. | | | |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:08 - Jul 24 with 1065 views | lowhouseblue |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:00 - Jul 24 by DJR |
Why does everything come back to Corbyn? He is no longer leader or even a member of the party. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:00]
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so it's just a coincidence that his core remaining backers came out in open opposition to the government on day one? just one of those random things that happens sometimes? could have been anyone. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:14 - Jul 24 with 1038 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:45 - Jul 24 by DJR |
Why punish the children though? And what if you have a child, and then twins? |
Then you receive the benefit due to the multiple child exception |  |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:29 - Jul 24 with 1002 views | giant_stow |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 23:44 - Jul 23 by Swansea_Blue |
I agree in principle. I’m not sure how large an issue lack of funds is though. We all know Labour are most vulnerable to Tory attacks on their spending record (however illogical and incorrect those attacks are). Everyone is asking for more money now. They’ve got a queue of people lining up asking for millions and billions to fix the mess the Tories left. In my area, desperate intervention is needed to prevent several universities going bankrupt imminently. Over 40 more are in severe financial and need help in the short term. All need a different funding model in the medium term (within next 2-3 years). Labour have just said no to any government support for now.
I don’t know if balancing the books and their fiscal rules are genuinely required or just an excuse. The Tories didn’t balance the books. They got the BoR to print money like it was going out of fashion to ease some of the shocks they inflicted on the economy. It seems to me that using QE positively to improve public services would be a better use of that mechanism than bailing out the government after fk ups like Brexit and Liz Truss! |
Peston reckons there's at least £50b to find:
[Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:32]
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:37 - Jul 24 with 970 views | Achane |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 20:53 - Jul 23 by DJR |
It is not normal to withdraw the whip for voting against a 3-line whip. It has happened (Johnson did it on a Brexit vote) but not to my knowledge in the Labour Party. And what Johnson did I thought equally outrageous.
[Post edited 23 Jul 2024 21:01]
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I think it's needed and justified given what happened to the Tories;all the infighting certainly played a part in their demise starmer is drawing a line in the sand to stamp it out end of the day these MPs were happy to run under a labour banner knowing full well the party line on the issue if they truly had issue with it they should have defected elsewhere | | | |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:38 - Jul 24 with 961 views | lowhouseblue |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:29 - Jul 24 by giant_stow |
Peston reckons there's at least £50b to find:
[Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:32]
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sultana was just on the radio saying that funding removal of the cap was easy - just need to increase capital gains tax and introduce a wealth tax. did she read the manifesto? clearly she didn't believe a word of it. given that, losing the whip actually seems a fair representation of where she stands politically - much more broadly than the benefits cap, she doesn't seem to support the government's programme. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:39]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:52 - Jul 24 with 924 views | giant_stow |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:38 - Jul 24 by lowhouseblue |
sultana was just on the radio saying that funding removal of the cap was easy - just need to increase capital gains tax and introduce a wealth tax. did she read the manifesto? clearly she didn't believe a word of it. given that, losing the whip actually seems a fair representation of where she stands politically - much more broadly than the benefits cap, she doesn't seem to support the government's programme. [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:39]
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I don't see how she can take one policy area in isolation like that. Everyone knows that we have huge problems everywhere - she / they should at least wait to see those problems outlined in the round. Perhaps in time, there'll even be some solution to child poverty that doesn't involve paying out benefits universally? [Post edited 24 Jul 2024 8:53]
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 08:54 - Jul 24 with 921 views | oldbeardy |
He was right to suspend them. It was made very clear before the election that removing the cap was unaffordable and you can't then have MPs ignoring the whip voting to do just that a matter of days afterwards. Whether the cap itself is good or bad policy and what changes should be made to it is a separate question that will be addressed further down the road, as has also been made clear. | | | |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 09:07 - Jul 24 with 893 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 07:30 - Jul 24 by lowhouseblue |
labour stood on, and made very explicit that, currently it couldn't afford to do this. it couldn't have been clearer and the manifesto left no doubt. no one voting labour could have been misled. i assume it will be a high priority once a fiscal gap opens up - within a couple of budgets i would suspect. but ignoring its fiscal rules within a couple of weeks and outside a budget would be very bad. |
How many years are you expecting it will be before Labour surprises to the upside with some progressive policies? |  |
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| Control-freakery gone mad on 09:09 - Jul 24 with 880 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Control-freakery gone mad on 23:01 - Jul 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The absolute state of this...Keir Stalin what a w⚓️. Thank f@ck I didn't vote for these! |
You didn’t vote for them? Well you kept that quiet. |  |
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