| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight 22:56 - Aug 5 with 12555 views | The_Romford_Blue |
Thoughts?
I thought it was bold of C5 to have a show doubting the conviction of a convicted serial baby killer.
I still think she undoubtedly did it. |  |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 23:02 - Aug 5 with 9332 views | MattinLondon |
I didn’t watch it (will probably view it on catch-up). I’ve been told that most of the evidence was circumstantial with the defence not allowed access to it. Did the documentary highlight that? |  | | |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 00:23 - Aug 6 with 9123 views | Ryorry |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 23:02 - Aug 5 by MattinLondon |
I didn’t watch it (will probably view it on catch-up). I’ve been told that most of the evidence was circumstantial with the defence not allowed access to it. Did the documentary highlight that? |
" I’ve been told that most of the evidence was circumstantial".
Correct. There was not even any evidence from any of the post-mortems that any of the deaths was anything other than natural. The youngest of the babies were premature & weighed only 2-3lbs, so were at v. high risk anyway.
"with the defence not allowed access to it"
Incorrect..What happened was that the defence counsel (who declined to appear on the show) failed to call the medical expert for the defence to appear in person, & his written statement was never shown to the jury.
"Did the documentary highlight that?"
They highlighted the above.
To the OP.
I thought it an excellent prog. Made me doubt the verdict, which I'd never questioned before. Disturbing also re flawed statistical evidence, failing hospital systems etc, [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 4:30]
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 01:14 - Aug 6 with 9031 views | Clapham_Junction |
The guy who writes the medical column in Private Eye has recently been calling into doubt her conviction. Surprised me at the start as from the original reporting it seemed a fairly slam dunk case, but I think he is a reliable source as far as health stuff goes (I will defer to Badger on that). |  | | |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 08:19 - Aug 6 with 8597 views | DJR |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 01:14 - Aug 6 by Clapham_Junction |
The guy who writes the medical column in Private Eye has recently been calling into doubt her conviction. Surprised me at the start as from the original reporting it seemed a fairly slam dunk case, but I think he is a reliable source as far as health stuff goes (I will defer to Badger on that). |
As well as Private Eye, both the Telegraph and Guardian had lengthy articles questioning things, the moment reporting restrictions were lifted. This indicated that there were many with specialist knowledge of the issues who had doubts whilst the trial was taking place.
Such articles appearing so soon after a trial seemed to me unprecedented. [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 8:41]
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 08:38 - Aug 6 with 8470 views | blueasfook |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 00:23 - Aug 6 by Ryorry |
" I’ve been told that most of the evidence was circumstantial".
Correct. There was not even any evidence from any of the post-mortems that any of the deaths was anything other than natural. The youngest of the babies were premature & weighed only 2-3lbs, so were at v. high risk anyway.
"with the defence not allowed access to it"
Incorrect..What happened was that the defence counsel (who declined to appear on the show) failed to call the medical expert for the defence to appear in person, & his written statement was never shown to the jury.
"Did the documentary highlight that?"
They highlighted the above.
To the OP.
I thought it an excellent prog. Made me doubt the verdict, which I'd never questioned before. Disturbing also re flawed statistical evidence, failing hospital systems etc, [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 4:30]
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Letby is guilty. No doubt about it. The deaths among those babies was way above what could normally be expected so some other factor was at work.. IE. Letby killing them. |  |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 08:49 - Aug 6 with 8380 views | JakeITFC |
Didn't watch the show but read the New York Times piece that came out during the re-trial and it shed light on some surprising things.
The conclusion seems to be that a lot of babies died and so they tried to fit a narrative to it rather than having overwhelming evidence that Letby had done something and built the case the other way round. It seems there were major issues with staffing and overworking of nurses on the unit and they weren't fit to deal with the types of cases that they had (which could have caused the deaths) and their smoking gun evidence (the staff rota) was put together using some flawed statistical interpretation (and also the method that Letby supposedly used to injured these babies was very difficult to do, unproven in autopsy and hinged on an old case study read by the prosecution medical witness).
It may well be that Letby did do something to some of these babies, but I don't think the first trials gave fair representation of the events that happened and so a re-trial might be on the cards. The worrying thing is that it then becomes a trial of the competency of the NHS instead. |  | | |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:07 - Aug 6 with 8253 views | WD19 |
It’s an absolute slam dunk of a case. Under different circumstances the programme would be labelled “Britains most evil killer” and there would be interviews with people calling for the death penalty. |  | | |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:14 - Aug 6 with 8216 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 08:38 - Aug 6 by blueasfook |
Letby is guilty. No doubt about it. The deaths among those babies was way above what could normally be expected so some other factor was at work.. IE. Letby killing them. |
I have no idea over whether she is guilty or not aside from the fact that a jury has found her guilty. I did not watch the programme and have not heard anything from it.
Your reasoning is a dangerous line to take, though. It does present as possible evidence but statistical anomalies do occur and correlation is not always causation. At least one mother has been convicted for murdering her own children due to the unlikelihood of multiple cot deaths happening to the same mother only for the conviction to be overturned. |  |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:19 - Aug 6 with 8211 views | Guthrum |
Friend of mine who does nursing in a hospital (HCA) is absolutely convinced she is innocent and that the deaths were down to wider incompetence. |  |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:21 - Aug 6 with 8183 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
I would recommend the latest 'Private Eye' magazine. There is an interesting piece on this by 'MD' (I believe written by Phil Hammond). |  |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:22 - Aug 6 with 8169 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:19 - Aug 6 by Guthrum |
Friend of mine who does nursing in a hospital (HCA) is absolutely convinced she is innocent and that the deaths were down to wider incompetence. |
That would make her conviction even more tragic. | |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:25 - Aug 6 with 8118 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:14 - Aug 6 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I have no idea over whether she is guilty or not aside from the fact that a jury has found her guilty. I did not watch the programme and have not heard anything from it.
Your reasoning is a dangerous line to take, though. It does present as possible evidence but statistical anomalies do occur and correlation is not always causation. At least one mother has been convicted for murdering her own children due to the unlikelihood of multiple cot deaths happening to the same mother only for the conviction to be overturned. |
I can't remember her name but after being released she became alcoholic (I think) and finished up dying young. Victim of a terrible miscarriage of justice. | |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:28 - Aug 6 with 8031 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:25 - Aug 6 by Tangledupin_Blue |
I can't remember her name but after being released she became alcoholic (I think) and finished up dying young. Victim of a terrible miscarriage of justice. |
Once the accusation has been made, there will be plenty who will not accept the possibility she was innocent. The horror of living with the wrongful conviction in and of itself must have been terrible.
Imagine having the loss of all of your children compounded by being falsely told it was you who killed them. | |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:57 - Aug 6 with 7891 views | Tangledupin_Blue |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 08:38 - Aug 6 by blueasfook |
Letby is guilty. No doubt about it. The deaths among those babies was way above what could normally be expected so some other factor was at work.. IE. Letby killing them. |
Maybe she is guilty. I don't know; nor do you.
Your logic here is absolute rubbish. Really bad. | |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:59 - Aug 6 with 7857 views | blueasfook |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:57 - Aug 6 by Tangledupin_Blue |
Maybe she is guilty. I don't know; nor do you.
Your logic here is absolute rubbish. Really bad. |
You have a better explanation for the spike in deaths then? | |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:01 - Aug 6 with 7828 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:59 - Aug 6 by blueasfook |
You have a better explanation for the spike in deaths then? |
Guthers has provided a possible one. None of us knows what was presented before the jury and why they decided to convict. What we do know is that there have been miscarriages of justice in the past. Whether this is one none of us knows for sure. | |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:07 - Aug 6 with 7766 views | TheBlueGnu |
Thoughts - well, er, what has that got to do with football ? [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 10:08]
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:12 - Aug 6 with 7701 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:07 - Aug 6 by TheBlueGnu |
Thoughts - well, er, what has that got to do with football ? [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 10:08]
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Need to use the filter at the top of the page if you only want football posts. | |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:15 - Aug 6 with 7667 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:07 - Aug 6 by TheBlueGnu |
Thoughts - well, er, what has that got to do with football ? [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 10:08]
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Some of us have been here for around 30 years and this is where we chat sh1t.
There is a tab that you can select at the top of the forum so that you only see football posts. | | | |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:27 - Aug 6 with 7584 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:07 - Aug 6 by TheBlueGnu |
Thoughts - well, er, what has that got to do with football ? [Post edited 6 Aug 2024 10:08]
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Absolutely nothing. Hence why I didn’t put it in the football section. | |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:29 - Aug 6 with 7571 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:59 - Aug 6 by blueasfook |
You have a better explanation for the spike in deaths then? |
i'm not sure that that's how innocent until proven guilty is meant to work? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 10:33 - Aug 6 with 7513 views | _clive_baker_ |
Not a cat in hell's chance will I be watching that. |  | | |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 11:04 - Aug 6 with 7384 views | Ryorry |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 09:59 - Aug 6 by blueasfook |
You have a better explanation for the spike in deaths then? |
1. After the trial, the hospital downgraded its status, so no longer accepted th highest risk cases.
2. Only the nurses' duty rosters were statistically checked - not the doctors' nor any other staff's.
3. Plumbers were regularly called into the ward to deal with backflow of waste water into the handwash sinks. The hospital was built in 1972 and had many structural deficiencies that were often complained about, incl. lack of space.
4. Staffing levels at that hospital were particularly low on many occasions.
5. Another nurse in another country (Belgium? can't recall) was accused of exactly the same thing, but a year or 2 later was 100% exonerated & released from jail.
6. There was a spike in premature baby deaths all over the UK at that time.
[Post edited 6 Aug 2024 11:13]
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 11:51 - Aug 6 with 7179 views | blueasfook |
| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 11:04 - Aug 6 by Ryorry |
1. After the trial, the hospital downgraded its status, so no longer accepted th highest risk cases.
2. Only the nurses' duty rosters were statistically checked - not the doctors' nor any other staff's.
3. Plumbers were regularly called into the ward to deal with backflow of waste water into the handwash sinks. The hospital was built in 1972 and had many structural deficiencies that were often complained about, incl. lack of space.
4. Staffing levels at that hospital were particularly low on many occasions.
5. Another nurse in another country (Belgium? can't recall) was accused of exactly the same thing, but a year or 2 later was 100% exonerated & released from jail.
6. There was a spike in premature baby deaths all over the UK at that time.
[Post edited 6 Aug 2024 11:13]
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Those points you mention seem tenuous at best. I think I'll stick to the evidence used in the case that the jury heard and consequently found her guilty based on, thanks. | |
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| The Lucy Letby doc on Channel 5 tonight on 12:14 - Aug 6 with 7044 views | Reus30 |
I don't think I can bring myself to watch it. Too upsetting to be honest.
But I do find this thread fascinating. If it's grey as being noted, would the jury not be an issue here as well? I'm not saying consciously but it must be extremely difficult in a circumstance such as this to be unbiased and just take on the evidence?
But also, it was a lot of babies over a period of time and the diary stuff. |  | | |
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