| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people 19:02 - Aug 21 with 10849 views | ghostofescobar |
Tragically die in a boating related incident (and I appreciate a black man too) in Italy, which is terrible beyond words, genuinely shocking, and I do mean that, and there is wall to wall press coverage, which I kinda get. Last month, four migrants drowned trying to get across the English Channel in a single incident. And………..not quite the same level of press coverage, was there? Why is that? Guess they are worth less. It troubles me. Really troubles me. Maybe I’m too woke, so await the brickbats. |  |
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| Excellent news on 09:33 - Aug 22 with 1494 views | WeWereZombies |
| Cannibalism isn’t technically illegal in the UK. (n/t) on 09:17 - Aug 22 by Bloots |
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Yum, yum... |  |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 09:37 - Aug 22 with 1459 views | Ryorry |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 09:30 - Aug 22 by WeWereZombies |
Just to derail the thread slightly, back in the spring I visited an old friend who now has to live in Hungary (and is perhaps returning to the United States at the moment) because she was refused entry at Heathrow a few years back. She got to spend a night or two in the company of the more typical profile of migrant who does not get in and found it a very sobering experience. She could spend thousands of pounds on the various applications that might give her the right to remain but she sees that as quite a risk. So for for several years she has been swapping lodgings in Hungary and Romania (using the no cost three month visas) as she seeks European Union rights through an application for Hungarian citizenship on the grounds that she had a Hungarian grandfather. To be a single lady in her mid seventies living out of a couple of suitcases has been another sobering experience for her.
I got a chance to understand her predicament better in conversation with another American lady of similar vintage who was camping at FolkEast last weekend and who explained the difference between Medicare and Medicaid to me (in terms of the financial outlay and the services received.) There have been vocal complaints about white people coming to the United Kingdom from supposedly richer countries just to use our health service and not contribute to the public purse, because those complaints are based on earning power rather than pigmentation I see that as ageist rather than racist.
None of this is intended to deprive you of the right or reason to contribute to this thread by the way, you have done well so far in bringing issues forward in my opinion. My belief is that everyone should post as they think at the time and read what others say so as to form their own judgements in the light of how the discussion progresses; we all count for one, no more, no less (until Phil gets fed up with us...)
[edited in a few places to make sense of typos and omissions due to me still waking up, none of which changed the thrust of my argument...in my opinion...] [Post edited 22 Aug 2024 9:39]
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I don't see that as a 'derailment' but a siding. Sidings are full of interesting things 👍 |  |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 09:42 - Aug 22 with 1434 views | noggin |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 09:30 - Aug 22 by WeWereZombies |
Just to derail the thread slightly, back in the spring I visited an old friend who now has to live in Hungary (and is perhaps returning to the United States at the moment) because she was refused entry at Heathrow a few years back. She got to spend a night or two in the company of the more typical profile of migrant who does not get in and found it a very sobering experience. She could spend thousands of pounds on the various applications that might give her the right to remain but she sees that as quite a risk. So for for several years she has been swapping lodgings in Hungary and Romania (using the no cost three month visas) as she seeks European Union rights through an application for Hungarian citizenship on the grounds that she had a Hungarian grandfather. To be a single lady in her mid seventies living out of a couple of suitcases has been another sobering experience for her.
I got a chance to understand her predicament better in conversation with another American lady of similar vintage who was camping at FolkEast last weekend and who explained the difference between Medicare and Medicaid to me (in terms of the financial outlay and the services received.) There have been vocal complaints about white people coming to the United Kingdom from supposedly richer countries just to use our health service and not contribute to the public purse, because those complaints are based on earning power rather than pigmentation I see that as ageist rather than racist.
None of this is intended to deprive you of the right or reason to contribute to this thread by the way, you have done well so far in bringing issues forward in my opinion. My belief is that everyone should post as they think at the time and read what others say so as to form their own judgements in the light of how the discussion progresses; we all count for one, no more, no less (until Phil gets fed up with us...)
[edited in a few places to make sense of typos and omissions due to me still waking up, none of which changed the thrust of my argument...in my opinion...] [Post edited 22 Aug 2024 9:39]
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Surely foreigners are only entitled to emergency care on the NHS? |  |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 10:14 - Aug 22 with 1391 views | WeWereZombies |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 09:42 - Aug 22 by noggin |
Surely foreigners are only entitled to emergency care on the NHS? |
I get both confused and astonished by the differing rules around citizenship, nationality and residency (and I'm a qualified accountant.) They can get interpreted differently by different regional and national authorities too, which medical practice you can get registered with also has a bearing upon things. There was the question of who she lived with, what happened when he threw her out...and then he went and died anyway. Perhaps we should have an international health service and just let the medical staff get on with things, forget the administrative paperwork and concentrate on keeping accurate medical records available wherever someone ends up. | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 10:20 - Aug 22 with 1379 views | Blueschev |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 08:25 - Aug 22 by Europablue |
On a certain level it doesn't matter what the reason other people have when they agree with you.
It just goes to show what the political discourse in our country that we seek division where there is consensus.
It's just not that simple that one side wants to stop needless deaths and one side is just racist. It is so much more nuanced than that. There is the needless risk and deaths that are caused by organized criminals preying on desperate/naïve people, but on the other side there are people maintaining the incentives of rewarding the successful crossers.
As a country we have a right to decide who comes into our country and that can be on any criteria we decide on. People who take part in the legal immigration process are being penalized and must be very frustrated that illegal immigration is rewarded. Illegal immigration is a grave threat to the social contract. We are being asked (compelled) to pay taxes to pay for services that people have a right to if they are citizens/legal residents and contribute to the best of their ability.
If you bring in a lot of people there will be a lot of pressure on infrastructure and services. If you bring a lot of unskilled people from the third world, at the very least they will need to be supported for a generation before there is a net gain for the public purse. You might not like an argument that values people based on their potential income and how much they contribute or take, but the reality is that services and infrastructure cost money and if they can't be funded, then they will deteriorate. If you can have targeted immigration you can bring in the people you need. It's probably morally better to just train up the people who are already here, because it may be great for us to have thousands of Indian doctors, but it's not so great for India and Indians back home.
Illegal immigrants are also very vulnerable there is no choice but to make money illegally. There is a high incentive towards crime and the illegal immigrants who don't terrorize others will be vulnerable to being exploited.
People like Kier Starmer who bang on about human rights don't care enough to stop illegal immigration and all the crime and suffering that goes with it. |
You've used the term illegal multiple times in your post. Can I just point out that people claiming asylum are not "illegal" until such time as their claim has been rejected yet they remain in the country. Therefore a huge majority of the people you are referring to as illegal immigrants are nothing of the sort. [Post edited 22 Aug 2024 10:23]
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 10:21 - Aug 22 with 1378 views | blueasfook |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 06:36 - Aug 22 by ElephantintheRoom |
It’s troubling that it troubles you. Try and understand the difference between a clutch of millionaires on a super yacht upended by a waterspout whilst on holiday celebrating getting off what appeared a cut and dried fraud case a day after the co-defendant died whilst jogging.
I’d hazard a guess that some people got divorced yesterday - but the only one featured in the Times was Jennifer Lopez who’d got divorced three times before. That was newsworthy too for entirely different reasons. |
I've already sent her an email to see if she's up for a date. Not got a reply yet. I reckon she's mulling it over. |  |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 10:43 - Aug 22 with 1345 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 10:14 - Aug 22 by WeWereZombies |
I get both confused and astonished by the differing rules around citizenship, nationality and residency (and I'm a qualified accountant.) They can get interpreted differently by different regional and national authorities too, which medical practice you can get registered with also has a bearing upon things. There was the question of who she lived with, what happened when he threw her out...and then he went and died anyway. Perhaps we should have an international health service and just let the medical staff get on with things, forget the administrative paperwork and concentrate on keeping accurate medical records available wherever someone ends up. |
You mean an International Health Service!
That is a very good idea that is highly unlikely to ever happen. All those very rich people who claim we cannot afford to run our own National Health Service would throw their hands up in horror at the idea that poor people across the world could gain the right to the same level of care worldwide by paying a significant amount of their own minimal earnings in taxes on it too. |  |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 10:58 - Aug 22 with 1329 views | vilanovablue |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 20:26 - Aug 21 by Plums |
You may very well have worked with one of my best friends - Mark M? |
I think I did! Former diver? |  | | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 11:04 - Aug 22 with 1316 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 10:21 - Aug 22 by blueasfook |
I've already sent her an email to see if she's up for a date. Not got a reply yet. I reckon she's mulling it over. |
She'd be mad to turn down a date with you mate. |  |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 11:05 - Aug 22 with 1323 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 11:04 - Aug 22 by GlasgowBlue |
She'd be mad to turn down a date with you mate. |
Indeed, any sane person just has him on ignore! | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 11:08 - Aug 22 with 1306 views | blueasfook |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 11:05 - Aug 22 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Indeed, any sane person just has him on ignore! |
She'd love a day out in Felixstowe I reckon. | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 11:17 - Aug 22 with 1266 views | Blueschev |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 11:08 - Aug 22 by blueasfook |
She'd love a day out in Felixstowe I reckon. |
She'd smash the Karaoke in the Felsto. | | | |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:20 - Aug 22 with 1178 views | lurcher |
But there is a much bigger story here. His codefendant in the HP - Autonomy purchase case was killed by a car at the weekend. Coincidence, highly unlikely? |  | | |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:27 - Aug 22 with 1129 views | Ryorry |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:20 - Aug 22 by lurcher |
But there is a much bigger story here. His codefendant in the HP - Autonomy purchase case was killed by a car at the weekend. Coincidence, highly unlikely? |
Bit much for any human to arrange a freak weather event like a waterspout though. | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:32 - Aug 22 with 1119 views | lowhouseblue |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:27 - Aug 22 by Ryorry |
Bit much for any human to arrange a freak weather event like a waterspout though. |
that's what they want you to think. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:38 - Aug 22 with 1073 views | Ryorry |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:32 - Aug 22 by lowhouseblue |
that's what they want you to think. |
Tbf, I did wonder, but think meteorology is too sophisticated these days for anyone to get away with it  | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:57 - Aug 22 with 1026 views | lurcher |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:27 - Aug 22 by Ryorry |
Bit much for any human to arrange a freak weather event like a waterspout though. |
Did anyone actually see a spout capsize the boat | | | |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:03 - Aug 22 with 1015 views | WeWereZombies |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:57 - Aug 22 by lurcher |
Did anyone actually see a spout capsize the boat |
I visited the science tent at WOMAD a few weeks ago and found a bunch of kids being taught (by an education outreach from CERN) how to build a small piece of electronic equipment that could create a standing wave... | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:07 - Aug 22 with 1011 views | lurcher |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:03 - Aug 22 by WeWereZombies |
I visited the science tent at WOMAD a few weeks ago and found a bunch of kids being taught (by an education outreach from CERN) how to build a small piece of electronic equipment that could create a standing wave... |
Sound wave generated from an electronic circuit? To be honest with things like this it doens't have to be some sort of Bond plot weather manipulation. Someone drugs the food or water supply then scuttles the boat mid storm, it would account for the keel and the windows left open. [Post edited 22 Aug 2024 14:11]
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:20 - Aug 22 with 992 views | WeWereZombies |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:07 - Aug 22 by lurcher |
Sound wave generated from an electronic circuit? To be honest with things like this it doens't have to be some sort of Bond plot weather manipulation. Someone drugs the food or water supply then scuttles the boat mid storm, it would account for the keel and the windows left open. [Post edited 22 Aug 2024 14:11]
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Yep, you're right. It was a sound wave and not a wave on the water. But then I understand that a water spout is actually a column of air. So why isn't it called an air spout ? | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:30 - Aug 22 with 984 views | Ryorry |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 13:57 - Aug 22 by lurcher |
Did anyone actually see a spout capsize the boat |
CIL - you’re back! 
Only kidding.
Bit much to contemplate 21 people killed as “collateral damage” for the 22nd though (or is it 22 for the 23rd, sadly). | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:49 - Aug 22 with 945 views | Asa |
I have said it before and I will say it constantly for the rest of my life.
The one thing every person on this planet has in common is that we had absolutely ZERO input into who were were born as.
I could have been born rich or poor, male or female, black or white, with or without a disability, being attracted to men, women, neither or both. I have and always will find it incredible that anybody can ever claim to be worth more than anyone else with this in mind, given that, as much as you have some individual power to improve the factors in your life you can control, you can still be bound by these circumstances. You can achieve far more in life born into a manor in the English countryside than into poverty in an Indian village or Brazilian favella.
We all know why this isn't absolutely drummed into every person in the world, nor why some people would want to hear it or some people care to hear it and there are a million factors that distort this all, media coverage in itself has its own agenda.
But anyone who thinks that they are worth more than any other human being by default or outside their actions is absolutely deluded.
I'm a white, straight, male in my 40's born in England and I had most things I wanted growing up. I've never had any form of sexism, racism, homophobia or discrimination to worry about or suffer and these injustices wind me right up.
Can only image how more than half the planet feels in the face of these ridiculous obstacles that society has created for them and the attitudes that some people still have towards anyone that is different. |  | | |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:52 - Aug 22 with 929 views | blueasfook |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:49 - Aug 22 by Asa |
I have said it before and I will say it constantly for the rest of my life.
The one thing every person on this planet has in common is that we had absolutely ZERO input into who were were born as.
I could have been born rich or poor, male or female, black or white, with or without a disability, being attracted to men, women, neither or both. I have and always will find it incredible that anybody can ever claim to be worth more than anyone else with this in mind, given that, as much as you have some individual power to improve the factors in your life you can control, you can still be bound by these circumstances. You can achieve far more in life born into a manor in the English countryside than into poverty in an Indian village or Brazilian favella.
We all know why this isn't absolutely drummed into every person in the world, nor why some people would want to hear it or some people care to hear it and there are a million factors that distort this all, media coverage in itself has its own agenda.
But anyone who thinks that they are worth more than any other human being by default or outside their actions is absolutely deluded.
I'm a white, straight, male in my 40's born in England and I had most things I wanted growing up. I've never had any form of sexism, racism, homophobia or discrimination to worry about or suffer and these injustices wind me right up.
Can only image how more than half the planet feels in the face of these ridiculous obstacles that society has created for them and the attitudes that some people still have towards anyone that is different. |
Protection for gangs, clubs and nations
Causing grief in human relations
It's a turf war on a global scale
I'd rather hear both sides of the tale
See, it's not about races
Just places, faces
Where your blood comes from is where your space is
I've seen the bright get duller
I'm not going to spend my life being a color | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:56 - Aug 22 with 900 views | Ryorry |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:49 - Aug 22 by Asa |
I have said it before and I will say it constantly for the rest of my life.
The one thing every person on this planet has in common is that we had absolutely ZERO input into who were were born as.
I could have been born rich or poor, male or female, black or white, with or without a disability, being attracted to men, women, neither or both. I have and always will find it incredible that anybody can ever claim to be worth more than anyone else with this in mind, given that, as much as you have some individual power to improve the factors in your life you can control, you can still be bound by these circumstances. You can achieve far more in life born into a manor in the English countryside than into poverty in an Indian village or Brazilian favella.
We all know why this isn't absolutely drummed into every person in the world, nor why some people would want to hear it or some people care to hear it and there are a million factors that distort this all, media coverage in itself has its own agenda.
But anyone who thinks that they are worth more than any other human being by default or outside their actions is absolutely deluded.
I'm a white, straight, male in my 40's born in England and I had most things I wanted growing up. I've never had any form of sexism, racism, homophobia or discrimination to worry about or suffer and these injustices wind me right up.
Can only image how more than half the planet feels in the face of these ridiculous obstacles that society has created for them and the attitudes that some people still have towards anyone that is different. |
We could even have been born in Norfolk 😱
Apols for joking, couldn’t resist. Fully agree with you, the attitude you outlined baffles me too. We’re all human. | |
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| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:57 - Aug 22 with 900 views | Asa |
| Going to stick my head above the parapet here, but some rich white people on 14:52 - Aug 22 by blueasfook |
Protection for gangs, clubs and nations
Causing grief in human relations
It's a turf war on a global scale
I'd rather hear both sides of the tale
See, it's not about races
Just places, faces
Where your blood comes from is where your space is
I've seen the bright get duller
I'm not going to spend my life being a color |
... don't tell me you agree with me? | | | |
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