| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? 15:41 - Nov 3 with 6352 views | Illinoisblue |
The commentator Tony Jones (ex Anglia TV who now does the overseas broadcasts) said there was a VAR check. But other people saying there wasn’t a check. Do the prem league release a list of var incidents?
For the sake of transparency, they surely have to release the audio. |  |
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| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 18:23 - Nov 3 with 1999 views | Edmundo |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 18:01 - Nov 3 by FrimleyBlue |
Looked on the replay last night that a player ran across him just as the contact took place. Shared it last night.
Obv if the player isn't in line then yes he would have seen it.
In real time. Unsure if clarke stops the ball being seen here. [Post edited 3 Nov 2024 18:05]
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That's where in rugby the on field ref would wait for a break in play and say, "Stuart, I couldn't see that challenge on Blue 10 in the box, can you get a clear view and advise if I missed a penalty? "
Clearly rugby referees are so much more intelligent team-spirited than the football donkeys that earn 5x more. |  |
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| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 18:24 - Nov 3 with 1999 views | NthQldITFC |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 17:13 - Nov 3 by FrimleyBlue |
But it's not an error if he's not seen it... if he'd seen it and not given it then it's an error no? |
It's what you'd call an error by omission, Frimmers. |  |
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| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 18:25 - Nov 3 with 2005 views | PhilTWTD |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 18:21 - Nov 3 by stonojnr |
well "confirmed" I think is a bit too strong a statement, KM said the fourth official told him there was a VAR check.
but the fourth official might simply have assumed that was the case, because they check everything right ? and was simply trying to keep the the bench calm, and didnt know for sure.
and if there was a VAR check, why is nobody sure what VAR actually concluded, surely there must be an official report somewhere that says VAR checked this and decided this, it doesnt just fall into a blackhole.
and the reason I say that is it was very noticeable when there were VAR checks going on, even if they werent being announced, the ref and linesman were stepping in to pause the game, that didnt happen after the penalty shout, or the sending off, even if Phillips paused on the touchline assuming again no doubt VAR was checking it or the penalty.
and then there was the weird Chaplin booking, when the ref suddenly decides to book someone not even on the pitch |
If the fourth official told him that was the case, I'm not sure that leaves it in any doubt. And as you say, they check everything anyway. Phillips hung around on the touchline for a bit before departing as well, so I assumed that was the case at the time. Chappers continued to make his case as he went off, hence the booking.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 18:58 - Nov 3 with 1912 views | FrimleyBlue |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 18:23 - Nov 3 by Edmundo |
That's where in rugby the on field ref would wait for a break in play and say, "Stuart, I couldn't see that challenge on Blue 10 in the box, can you get a clear view and advise if I missed a penalty? "
Clearly rugby referees are so much more intelligent team-spirited than the football donkeys that earn 5x more. |
I agree with that. But can he do that? Didn't they change it so that they can only get involved and clear and obvious errors not things the ref missed?
Like last week's. They got involved because the ref in their mind got it wrong.
BTW. I agree if the ref can ask that then yes he should have done. But wasn't sure if they can actually do that after the var changes.
It Is a bit of mess VAR anyway. |  |
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| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 22:08 - Nov 3 with 1809 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 18:58 - Nov 3 by FrimleyBlue |
I agree with that. But can he do that? Didn't they change it so that they can only get involved and clear and obvious errors not things the ref missed?
Like last week's. They got involved because the ref in their mind got it wrong.
BTW. I agree if the ref can ask that then yes he should have done. But wasn't sure if they can actually do that after the var changes.
It Is a bit of mess VAR anyway. |
Why are you so obsessed with trying to make something the referee missed not a clear and obvious error?
Imagine a player thumps another off the ball behind the referee's back. Do you really think VAR goes "that's behind the referee's back so he can't see it so it isn't an error. Very clever of the player who has thumped the other. No check"? It is the very essence of the point of VAR. |  |
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| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 23:08 - Nov 3 with 1760 views | Vegtablue |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 22:08 - Nov 3 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Why are you so obsessed with trying to make something the referee missed not a clear and obvious error?
Imagine a player thumps another off the ball behind the referee's back. Do you really think VAR goes "that's behind the referee's back so he can't see it so it isn't an error. Very clever of the player who has thumped the other. No check"? It is the very essence of the point of VAR. |
Lol quite, I lost brain cells reading some of the posts in this thread! |  | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 23:45 - Nov 3 with 1714 views | Reus30 |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 17:36 - Nov 3 by Benters |
I’ve watched it time and time again,I am absolutely amazed the Ref didn’t see the shove as being a penalty.
Hopefully over the course of the season it will even itself out. |
Still waiting on some decisions from last year to be 'returned'.
I doubt it will even itself out. |  | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 01:40 - Nov 4 with 1656 views | flykickingbybgunn |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 23:45 - Nov 3 by Reus30 |
Still waiting on some decisions from last year to be 'returned'.
I doubt it will even itself out. |
Are we sure the bloke on the VAR at Portman Road is'nt Chris Sutton ? |  | | |
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| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 03:57 - Nov 4 with 1609 views | charlie1 |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 15:52 - Nov 3 by SitfcB |
There has to be a check but can’t have been a very long one.
But then look who was on VAR, explains it. |
There’s some sort of inverse proportionality thing going on.
Things that take no time at all:
Deciding not to award a pen for Town - Davis against Man City, Chappers against Leicester.
Things that take ages:
Watching enough angles until it can finally be justified giving a pen against Town or overturning one awarded to Town:
Davis against Man City, Jack Clarke against Everton, Harry Clark against Brentford.
I’m sure there are more. | | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 08:28 - Nov 4 with 1488 views | PioneerBlue |
updated because clearer explanation is now in public domain.
It’s still a shower.
Versus ManC ref doesn’t give the the pen on field but was asked to recheck and the VAR check led to a pen for ManC.
The subjectivity still exits therefore the tech is not fit for purpose and really counts at the top and bottom of the league. [Post edited 4 Nov 2024 13:24]
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| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 10:29 - Nov 4 with 1432 views | OldFart71 |
Cannot believe the penalty wasn't given and whilst Phillips challenge maybe looked clumsy I don't in any way believe that was a second yellow card. My fear is we get relegated, not entirely due to lack of effort, but we haven't had the rub of the green in any sense of the word. If things are supposed to even out then there's a lot of that to happen. West Ham apart we have given as good as we got. Given that we are the new boys with less chance of being ready for the Prem it's understandable that against certain teams we will struggle. Whilst we are a fit team I do see many teams as maybe more athletic than us ? My big fear is if relegated players like Leif get snapped up. | | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 10:38 - Nov 4 with 1405 views | FrimleyBlue |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 22:08 - Nov 3 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Why are you so obsessed with trying to make something the referee missed not a clear and obvious error?
Imagine a player thumps another off the ball behind the referee's back. Do you really think VAR goes "that's behind the referee's back so he can't see it so it isn't an error. Very clever of the player who has thumped the other. No check"? It is the very essence of the point of VAR. |
You're talking about two very different things.
I've not seen a VAR this season ask the referee to look at the situation you describe. If there has then absolutely fine no drama I've just not come across it.
But I don't see how not being able to see something is an error. It's just rotten luck.
It's not obsession it's more I'm open to understanding why something wasn't given rather than just shouting in anger that it wasn't because it was against the team I support.
If the vast majority of fans. Pundits etc are saying its a pen. Then as said there must be a reason so it's either imo because they felt chappers left the ground before the action therefor its a clash between players ( I don't agree with that specifically but again trying to justify their decision if that was it) or they couldn't get class it as an error as the ref couldn't see it. So it's not an error.
The points of VAR are discussed across all supporters. It's an absolutely sht show of an addition imo. | |
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| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 10:49 - Nov 4 with 1390 views | _clive_baker_ |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 16:51 - Nov 3 by BasingstokeBlue |
Especially when a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS ERROR has been made by the on-field ref. |
Denying us a penalty against Everton for the Jack Clarke incident was a 'clear and obvious' on field error, but overturning that one on Saturday wasn't apparently.
Its an absolute farce. |  | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 10:54 - Nov 4 with 1379 views | portmanking |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 10:49 - Nov 4 by _clive_baker_ |
Denying us a penalty against Everton for the Jack Clarke incident was a 'clear and obvious' on field error, but overturning that one on Saturday wasn't apparently.
Its an absolute farce. |
That's actually the best post to summarise the situation of the last few weeks re. VAR. It demonstrates the complete lack of accountability, with decisions allowed to be made on the fly and not to the letter of the law. | | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 11:02 - Nov 4 with 1369 views | gringoblue |
There is nothing on the Premier League Match Centre X feed to suggest it was reviewed, although I'm not sure what the criteria is for them including something on there. There are non-penalty award reviews listed from other matches
https://x.com/plmatchcentre?lang=en |  | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 11:09 - Nov 4 with 1353 views | Vegtablue |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 10:38 - Nov 4 by FrimleyBlue |
You're talking about two very different things.
I've not seen a VAR this season ask the referee to look at the situation you describe. If there has then absolutely fine no drama I've just not come across it.
But I don't see how not being able to see something is an error. It's just rotten luck.
It's not obsession it's more I'm open to understanding why something wasn't given rather than just shouting in anger that it wasn't because it was against the team I support.
If the vast majority of fans. Pundits etc are saying its a pen. Then as said there must be a reason so it's either imo because they felt chappers left the ground before the action therefor its a clash between players ( I don't agree with that specifically but again trying to justify their decision if that was it) or they couldn't get class it as an error as the ref couldn't see it. So it's not an error.
The points of VAR are discussed across all supporters. It's an absolutely sht show of an addition imo. |
It's such a silly wormhole to spiral down because everybody else interested in football knows that 'clear and obvious' refers to the decision itself, not the ability of the referee to make it in the event he's just sneezed / run into traffic / caught a fly in his eye / been tripped over by his own shorts / 'it's behind you'. The idea this is part of VAR's consideration is totally ridiculous, and it's why VAR utilizes all the angles available rather than relying on the ref tying a GoPro to his head.
Obviously the VAR team have had a little look at it, either in real time with no interest or with a couple of replays to 'aid' them, and they've decided that the 'coming together' wasn't a clear and obvious penalty. All fans I've spoken to and the few pundits I've listened to agree that analysis was a joke, which is far from VAR's first rodeo on awful decisions. Different lines of enquiry like the above are ridiculous and the road to madness frankly, as is any attempt to legitimise their interpretation of events. | | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 11:33 - Nov 4 with 1307 views | Vegtablue |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 11:09 - Nov 4 by Vegtablue |
It's such a silly wormhole to spiral down because everybody else interested in football knows that 'clear and obvious' refers to the decision itself, not the ability of the referee to make it in the event he's just sneezed / run into traffic / caught a fly in his eye / been tripped over by his own shorts / 'it's behind you'. The idea this is part of VAR's consideration is totally ridiculous, and it's why VAR utilizes all the angles available rather than relying on the ref tying a GoPro to his head.
Obviously the VAR team have had a little look at it, either in real time with no interest or with a couple of replays to 'aid' them, and they've decided that the 'coming together' wasn't a clear and obvious penalty. All fans I've spoken to and the few pundits I've listened to agree that analysis was a joke, which is far from VAR's first rodeo on awful decisions. Different lines of enquiry like the above are ridiculous and the road to madness frankly, as is any attempt to legitimise their interpretation of events. |
*I say 'obviously' because the VAR ref watches the whole game with multiple cameras and without a toilet stop. Then when the team note a decision they believe requires careful, prolonged scrutiny, they'll pause the on-field action until they've adjudicated on it. Therefore VAR's either watched it live and thought nothing of it, or they've very quickly replayed footage and deemed there wasn't enough in it. Either scenario would be sufficient in my view for the 4th official to assure McKenna that VAR has cleared the decision. | | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 12:07 - Nov 4 with 1241 views | soupytwist |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 10:38 - Nov 4 by FrimleyBlue |
You're talking about two very different things.
I've not seen a VAR this season ask the referee to look at the situation you describe. If there has then absolutely fine no drama I've just not come across it.
But I don't see how not being able to see something is an error. It's just rotten luck.
It's not obsession it's more I'm open to understanding why something wasn't given rather than just shouting in anger that it wasn't because it was against the team I support.
If the vast majority of fans. Pundits etc are saying its a pen. Then as said there must be a reason so it's either imo because they felt chappers left the ground before the action therefor its a clash between players ( I don't agree with that specifically but again trying to justify their decision if that was it) or they couldn't get class it as an error as the ref couldn't see it. So it's not an error.
The points of VAR are discussed across all supporters. It's an absolutely sht show of an addition imo. |
As Rozz said earlier in this thread, and on another - "The referee may be assisted by a video assistant referee (VAR) only in the event of a 'clear and obvious error' or 'serious missed incident' in relation to . . . (several things including awarding a penalty)"
So if the ref didn't see something that clearly happened that's presumably covered under "serious missed incident". An attacking player being flattened by a defender in the penalty area was presumably not deemed to meet the definition of serious missed incident.
Or, maybe VAR actually asked the ref 'Did you see the blue 10 get clattered in the area?" and he said "Yes I did but I don't think it was a foul" so play continues. In that case I'd expect VAR to respond with, "Maybe you should take a look because it looks like a foul to us". |  | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 12:09 - Nov 4 with 1230 views | itfc_statman |
The only slight comfort is take VAR out of the Premier League and we still wouldn't have got the penalty - not sure that helps, actually. | | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 12:18 - Nov 4 with 1198 views | soupytwist |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 12:09 - Nov 4 by itfc_statman |
The only slight comfort is take VAR out of the Premier League and we still wouldn't have got the penalty - not sure that helps, actually. |
But we'd have got one against Everton and Brentford wouldn't have got one against us. So we'd be up on the deal. | | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 12:37 - Nov 4 with 1152 views | CrayonKing |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 12:18 - Nov 4 by soupytwist |
But we'd have got one against Everton and Brentford wouldn't have got one against us. So we'd be up on the deal. |
Man City wouldn't have immediately got a goal back against us either |  | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 12:47 - Nov 4 with 1114 views | farkenhell |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 12:07 - Nov 4 by soupytwist |
As Rozz said earlier in this thread, and on another - "The referee may be assisted by a video assistant referee (VAR) only in the event of a 'clear and obvious error' or 'serious missed incident' in relation to . . . (several things including awarding a penalty)"
So if the ref didn't see something that clearly happened that's presumably covered under "serious missed incident". An attacking player being flattened by a defender in the penalty area was presumably not deemed to meet the definition of serious missed incident.
Or, maybe VAR actually asked the ref 'Did you see the blue 10 get clattered in the area?" and he said "Yes I did but I don't think it was a foul" so play continues. In that case I'd expect VAR to respond with, "Maybe you should take a look because it looks like a foul to us". |
According to Dermot Gallagher, who claims to have heard the conversation between Robinson & Atwell, the description in your final paragraph is pretty much what happened. Apart from the fact that VAR didn't respond as you suggested (or at all).
Which begs the obvious question, what is the point of VAR?
And that, for me, is the root cause of why I am still so aggrieved by this. Sh!t refereeing decisions happen all the time, for all manner of reasons. We've had our fair share of them and we can all recount past decisions that have cost us dearly. I accept that we would have benefitted from some dodgy decisions as well (although you never remember those in the same way). However, when we reached the promised land, VAR was supposed to be the panacea for all of this. If/when the referee cocks up, don't worry, we have a process in place to eradicate the wrongs, to put things right, so we won't feel aggrieved. Except, it hasn't worked like that and we end up feeling doubly pissed off.
And then you get a tw@t like Gallagher trying to defend the indefensible... | | | |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 13:57 - Nov 4 with 1037 views | Benters |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 23:45 - Nov 3 by Reus30 |
Still waiting on some decisions from last year to be 'returned'.
I doubt it will even itself out. |
We live in hope. |  |
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| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 17:26 - Nov 4 with 952 views | Radlett_blue |
| So, was there a VAR check on the “penalty” yesterday? on 18:25 - Nov 3 by PhilTWTD |
If the fourth official told him that was the case, I'm not sure that leaves it in any doubt. And as you say, they check everything anyway. Phillips hung around on the touchline for a bit before departing as well, so I assumed that was the case at the time. Chappers continued to make his case as he went off, hence the booking.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Interestingly, if VAR had awarded us a penalty for the foul on Chaplin, would Phillips's second yellow card have been cancelled? |  |
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