| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? 12:35 - Nov 8 with 15219 views | itfcjoe |
If they want to retain power in 5 years time.....because the same playbook will be being used by the same people on the right of our politics.
- Don't go woke, don't lean too heavily into wokeness, DEI, etc. It just simply isn't what the majority of people want. If they want to try and fight a culture war they'll lose.
- Immigration has to be seen to be under control, whether it is or isn't
- There is a big misinformation and disinformation war going on, they need to get their generals in the game before they are too far behind to come back in this. What do they need to do to go up against the Steve Bannon's and Elon Musk's off the world.
- Give the working classes something to believe in, and that needs to come from the bottom up and not the top down. They have to respect the working classes, listen to them and not tell them why they are wrong, why they don't like them, why they are a constant let down to the bourgeoisie.
- Be fun, have a twinkle in their eye and a laugh at times. People like Angela Rayner manage it well, don't be so serious all the time.
Just spit balling, sure people will be along to tell me wrong I am soon! [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 12:37]
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:51 - Nov 8 with 1465 views | mutters |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:32 - Nov 8 by lowhouseblue |
they're less educated because they don't think like us. you need education to think like us. on this all of us with education are agreed. is this a group think bubble i see before me? |
People used to say that students are more left wing and as they grow older they migrate towards the right.
Not sure that's actually true but I have heard it many times over the years.
It always amazes me the number of bright, intelligent, well educated people who end up falling for popular political agendas. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:59 - Nov 8 with 1455 views | lowhouseblue |
yes, but does education make someone's political choices legitimate and the lack of the same education make someone else's political choices illegitimate? do you assume that education determines political legitimacy? really? what if educational institutions aren't politically neutral and they culturally shape the people that they educate? what if education level affects class identification, and voting in a particular way is one of the cultural norms which comes with being middle class and 'educated'?
I am genuinely thinking aloud and the question marks are genuine. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 23:38 - Nov 8 with 1364 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:59 - Nov 8 by lowhouseblue |
yes, but does education make someone's political choices legitimate and the lack of the same education make someone else's political choices illegitimate? do you assume that education determines political legitimacy? really? what if educational institutions aren't politically neutral and they culturally shape the people that they educate? what if education level affects class identification, and voting in a particular way is one of the cultural norms which comes with being middle class and 'educated'?
I am genuinely thinking aloud and the question marks are genuine. |
I think it more likely that, in general, people who are more educated are likely to be more widely read, to be better at critical thinking, assessing sources, weighing opposing arguments etc. They are also generally less insular, more travelled, mixed with more cultures and people at university etc. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 23:55 - Nov 8 with 1331 views | lowhouseblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 23:38 - Nov 8 by redrickstuhaart |
I think it more likely that, in general, people who are more educated are likely to be more widely read, to be better at critical thinking, assessing sources, weighing opposing arguments etc. They are also generally less insular, more travelled, mixed with more cultures and people at university etc. |
"They are also generally less insular, more travelled, mixed with more cultures and people at university etc." well isn't that basically just the definition of being middle class.
what if access to higher education is uneven and class based? what if kids from middle class families get easier access - and educational attainment is partly class based?
what if education is now just a proxy for being middle class, and what we're really saying is that that in our current society the middle classes on average tend to be left wing or centrist and the working classes are more likely to vote for populist parties? what if education isn't the same as intelligence and people without degrees aren't thick and their political choices reflect their experience rather than their iq? radical eh. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 00:11 - Nov 9 with 1286 views | positivity |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 23:38 - Nov 8 by redrickstuhaart |
I think it more likely that, in general, people who are more educated are likely to be more widely read, to be better at critical thinking, assessing sources, weighing opposing arguments etc. They are also generally less insular, more travelled, mixed with more cultures and people at university etc. |
needs to be more stuff on critical thinking, assessing sources, weighing opposing arguments on the curriculum at primary and secondary levels.
far too much weighting has been put on coaching children to pass exams, gaming the league tables and petty discipline. so-called "soft skills" which actually prepare you for work and life have fallen away | |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 08:00 - Nov 9 with 1142 views | NthQldITFC |
It's a very clear correlation, even if it is potentially offensive to a large group of people, but cold hard facts are important. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 08:17 - Nov 9 with 1106 views | iamatractorboy |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:32 - Nov 8 by GlasgowBlue |
Lesson 5. Stop insulting the people who don’t vote for you. |
To be fair, it didn't seem to do Trump any harm! | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 08:20 - Nov 9 with 1096 views | Xatticus |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:25 - Nov 8 by mutters |
Have you got stats/link on whether the right is less educated or is that anecdotal? |
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/partisanship-by-race-ethnicity-a
It's definitely true, especially when you account for other factors, race in particular.
To address the question at hand, don't surrender control of the narrative of the election.
There is an old apocryphal story about the early political career of Lyndon Johnson. Supposedly, he was in a close race and told his campaign manager to spread a rumour that his opponent fiddled with his barnyard sows. The campaign manager told him that nobody would believe it, to which LBJ responded, "I know, but let's make the sonofabitch deny it."
You can't get bogged down defending attacks. You have to be on the front foot.
This is why nothing seems to stick to Trump. He has a loathsome record as a human being, but he is always on the attack. Most people get defensive when they are attacked. | | | |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 08:31 - Nov 9 with 1064 views | iamatractorboy |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 18:17 - Nov 8 by Illinoisblue |
Sadly, true:
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Can't say I'm remotely surprised at this, although in the interests of fairness I wonder if there were a) more questions in the survey and b) how were these responded to? Could be a bit of cherry picking going on (not saying there was). | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:07 - Nov 9 with 1024 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 23:55 - Nov 8 by lowhouseblue |
"They are also generally less insular, more travelled, mixed with more cultures and people at university etc." well isn't that basically just the definition of being middle class.
what if access to higher education is uneven and class based? what if kids from middle class families get easier access - and educational attainment is partly class based?
what if education is now just a proxy for being middle class, and what we're really saying is that that in our current society the middle classes on average tend to be left wing or centrist and the working classes are more likely to vote for populist parties? what if education isn't the same as intelligence and people without degrees aren't thick and their political choices reflect their experience rather than their iq? radical eh. |
I dont accept that class is based on education and being less insular. Someone with a working class background who goes to University doesnt instantly become middle class in most perceptions. They do however, broaden their horizons, learn to think and mix with other cultures.
Even if it were right that its a class thing, it would be those elements that drive voting inclinations rather than some historical view of class, so it doesnt really matter whether you call it "educated" or "middle class". Its the education, critical thinking, and broader horizons which count.
Of course, traditionally labour is a working class party and the mail and telegraph reading middle classes are more likely than most to be tunnel visioned tories. | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:15 - Nov 9 with 1016 views | ArmaghBlue |
You forgot to mention their obsession with the net-zero nonsense needs to be toned down drastically. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:51 - Nov 9 with 993 views | lowhouseblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:07 - Nov 9 by redrickstuhaart |
I dont accept that class is based on education and being less insular. Someone with a working class background who goes to University doesnt instantly become middle class in most perceptions. They do however, broaden their horizons, learn to think and mix with other cultures.
Even if it were right that its a class thing, it would be those elements that drive voting inclinations rather than some historical view of class, so it doesnt really matter whether you call it "educated" or "middle class". Its the education, critical thinking, and broader horizons which count.
Of course, traditionally labour is a working class party and the mail and telegraph reading middle classes are more likely than most to be tunnel visioned tories. |
trouble is that what you're then left with is that people only disagree with you politically because they're uneducated / thick. that seems very unhealthy psychologically - it's hardly self-aware or reflective - and very very bad politically. we've seen that if people keep being called uneducated and thick they turn around and elect trump.
accepting the legitimacy of other political views (rather than them being an aberration based on some form of cognitive inadequacy), however much you disagree with those views, is pretty central to a civilised society. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:05 - Nov 9 with 965 views | iamatractorboy |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:15 - Nov 9 by ArmaghBlue |
You forgot to mention their obsession with the net-zero nonsense needs to be toned down drastically. |
'Net-zero nonsense'? | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:15 - Nov 9 with 951 views | BlibbiBlob1976 |
With a bit of luck, they’ll learn nothing and get booted straight out
One thing about Starmer, however, is that he does have principles. And if you don’t agree with them, then he does have others [Post edited 9 Nov 2024 10:59]
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:31 - Nov 9 with 920 views | BlibbiBlob1976 |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:47 - Nov 8 by Illinoisblue |
The right are very good at firing up their base and that’s partly because their base is less educated; Labour/Dems need to work on their soundbites and slogans as that’s a huge part of the war. Of course it should be a grown-up discussion about policy and ideas but that ship has long sailed.
Trump went big with “immigrants are eating dogs” and American towns being “invaded by illegals”…. Hard to counter that stuff - even when it’s a blatant lie - so to your point the Left need to get ahead of it. |
This type of post is so patronising, and exactly why Harris lost! | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:55 - Nov 9 with 883 views | positivity |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:15 - Nov 9 by ArmaghBlue |
You forgot to mention their obsession with the net-zero nonsense needs to be toned down drastically. |
their obsession with giving our kids and grandkids a live-able planet?
i really wish it was an obsession, we need to do far, far more | |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 11:03 - Nov 9 with 868 views | BlibbiBlob1976 |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:51 - Nov 9 by lowhouseblue |
trouble is that what you're then left with is that people only disagree with you politically because they're uneducated / thick. that seems very unhealthy psychologically - it's hardly self-aware or reflective - and very very bad politically. we've seen that if people keep being called uneducated and thick they turn around and elect trump.
accepting the legitimacy of other political views (rather than them being an aberration based on some form of cognitive inadequacy), however much you disagree with those views, is pretty central to a civilised society. |
Good post. Didn’t help that Harris had absolutely no policy messages. Just “the vibe”. She lost because she was a woeful candidate and did not address any of the concerns of the greater American public. A good candidate of the centre would have trounced Trump | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:06 - Nov 9 with 794 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:15 - Nov 9 by ArmaghBlue |
You forgot to mention their obsession with the net-zero nonsense needs to be toned down drastically. |
It needs to be ramped up, even if voters are too selfish and stupid to realise it. | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:07 - Nov 9 with 791 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:31 - Nov 9 by BlibbiBlob1976 |
This type of post is so patronising, and exactly why Harris lost! |
It is also accurate! Which is the difficult dilemma. | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:08 - Nov 9 with 787 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:51 - Nov 9 by lowhouseblue |
trouble is that what you're then left with is that people only disagree with you politically because they're uneducated / thick. that seems very unhealthy psychologically - it's hardly self-aware or reflective - and very very bad politically. we've seen that if people keep being called uneducated and thick they turn around and elect trump.
accepting the legitimacy of other political views (rather than them being an aberration based on some form of cognitive inadequacy), however much you disagree with those views, is pretty central to a civilised society. |
Agree with all that- but there are views that are simply not legitimate. I dont have to accept their legitimacy. And noe of this changes the fundamental fact that education tends to make people less right wing and bigotted. | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:14 - Nov 9 with 772 views | GlasgowBlue |
Regarding immigration. My view is that progressive politicians need to own their liberal views on immigration and proudly talk about the benefits of immigration rather than shuffling nervously when the topic is raised and attempt to come across as Reform-lite. It simply doesn’t work and comes across as being insincere. The branded mugs that promised “Controls on immigration” from Labour under Ed Miliband was one such example of cringe worthy naffness that came across as a desperate attempt to appear tough on immigration, when in their heart of hearts they are pro immigration , and rightly so. Labour look ridiculous when they try to compete with the Tories and reform on the subject.
Which ties in with my view that instead of calling people who have concerns about immigration “thick”, “stupid”! “Ignorant”, brainwashed”, “uneducated” or “racist”, engage with them and set out the positive case for immigration.
Shout from the rooftops that immigrants are your doctors and nurses. Your taxi drivers. They are the people who serve you in your local shop. They are the people who teach your children in our schools and the people who you trust when depositing money to in your local bank. They are police officers, bus drivers, social workers, political representatives from the parish council to the Mayor of your city.
But when people raise concerns regarding levels of immigration don’t treat them with contempt. Listen to them and explain the benefits to the country and their community. Otherwise you will simply drive them to the right. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:18 - Nov 9 with 760 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Understand that left wing policies are popular. It's just how you deliver them that matters. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:27 - Nov 9 with 745 views | BlibbiBlob1976 |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:18 - Nov 9 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Understand that left wing policies are popular. It's just how you deliver them that matters. |
I think it’s probably easier to win in the U.K. from the centre right than the centre left. High tax, large state is a hard sell to most Brits I think. | | | |
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