| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? 12:35 - Nov 8 with 15229 views | itfcjoe |
If they want to retain power in 5 years time.....because the same playbook will be being used by the same people on the right of our politics.
- Don't go woke, don't lean too heavily into wokeness, DEI, etc. It just simply isn't what the majority of people want. If they want to try and fight a culture war they'll lose.
- Immigration has to be seen to be under control, whether it is or isn't
- There is a big misinformation and disinformation war going on, they need to get their generals in the game before they are too far behind to come back in this. What do they need to do to go up against the Steve Bannon's and Elon Musk's off the world.
- Give the working classes something to believe in, and that needs to come from the bottom up and not the top down. They have to respect the working classes, listen to them and not tell them why they are wrong, why they don't like them, why they are a constant let down to the bourgeoisie.
- Be fun, have a twinkle in their eye and a laugh at times. People like Angela Rayner manage it well, don't be so serious all the time.
Just spit balling, sure people will be along to tell me wrong I am soon! [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 12:37]
|  |
| |  |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:43 - Nov 8 with 2070 views | DJR |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:35 - Nov 8 by positivity |
agreed, but i'd say the "american religious right", not really a thing here |
It certainly isn't, but that doesn't appear to have made the anti-woke agenda any less effective here.
Indeed, we ended up with an equality minister who didn't believe all cultures are equally valid. [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 16:44]
|  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:43 - Nov 8 with 2069 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:39 - Nov 8 by Ftnfwest |
A lot of that is true, I think at the centre of it all normal working class Americans were fed up with having liberal ideology forced on them day and night and their non-compliance, or perceived non-compliance meaning them being classified as Nazis or far right.
The fact that a lot of that ideology was being elucidated by billionaires, pop and film stars probably didn’t help.
All of this is (as is often the case with the US) a lot more extreme than is happening here, but it’s the same issues at heart.
Even Trump with everything that’s been happening with him I thought (for him) was pretty low key which may have helped him as well. |
The thing is that it wasnt generally forced on them. They were just noticing people sitting up and saying "don't force your values on us" and they didnt like it.
I do agree that there are situations where som eof the overt agressive virtuous "wokeness" is counter productive and has built a narrative of an onslaught of crazy political correctness- a narrative we have seen in the UK for many years now, which still is largely untrue or unreasonable. But it sticks. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:56 - Nov 8 with 2026 views | positivity |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:43 - Nov 8 by DJR |
It certainly isn't, but that doesn't appear to have made the anti-woke agenda any less effective here.
Indeed, we ended up with an equality minister who didn't believe all cultures are equally valid. [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 16:44]
|
might be naive, but i'd hope it is less effective here, certainly hasn't helped the tories at the last election | |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:59 - Nov 8 with 2018 views | BloomBlue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 14:44 - Nov 8 by Illinoisblue |
I don’t think it’s “the economy” as much as it’s prices of stuff at the supermarket. The U.S economy is doing fantastically well under Biden - low unemployment, stock market at all time high, inflation coming down, gas prices coming down - but eggs and bacon are 30 cents more expensive so fk all of that. This is how people think. |
To the 'working people' class, the economy is the prices. The US economy has been improving nicely over the last couple of years, problem is the prices in the shops is still high. As one bod said on the TV yesterday, three years ago this cost $1 today it cost me $3. This is especially true when it comes to the price of petrol.
To the 'working people' that's how they view the economy, prices
If prices keep going up, even if the NHS is improved Labour will almost certainly lose the next election.
That will move from certainly to guaranteed if they don't reduce the number of immigrants coming into the country, especially those coming on boats. The Rwanda idea was never going to work (let's assume) and Labour ditched it for their idea of tackling the gangs. If in 5 years that idea isn't reducing the numbers. Labour are f&cked. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 17:28 - Nov 8 with 1947 views | DJR |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:56 - Nov 8 by positivity |
might be naive, but i'd hope it is less effective here, certainly hasn't helped the tories at the last election |
That's certainly true. | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 17:34 - Nov 8 with 1924 views | lowhouseblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:43 - Nov 8 by redrickstuhaart |
The thing is that it wasnt generally forced on them. They were just noticing people sitting up and saying "don't force your values on us" and they didnt like it.
I do agree that there are situations where som eof the overt agressive virtuous "wokeness" is counter productive and has built a narrative of an onslaught of crazy political correctness- a narrative we have seen in the UK for many years now, which still is largely untrue or unreasonable. But it sticks. |
i don't think 'woke' in itself is actually a big thing in uk politics. but it does act to emphasise the division between between the middle class (particularly those in the media, academia, and public sector) and just about everyone else. it plays to a narrative in which that middle class (who let's face it are essentially what the modern labour party is now) represent a social privileged elite who have contempt for those who don't think the same way. woke, just like the virulent hatred of anyone who voted for brexit, seems to be divisive in that shows that our political class really don't like the hoi polloi with their nasty uneducated views. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 17:50 - Nov 8 with 1879 views | reusersfreekicks |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 17:34 - Nov 8 by lowhouseblue |
i don't think 'woke' in itself is actually a big thing in uk politics. but it does act to emphasise the division between between the middle class (particularly those in the media, academia, and public sector) and just about everyone else. it plays to a narrative in which that middle class (who let's face it are essentially what the modern labour party is now) represent a social privileged elite who have contempt for those who don't think the same way. woke, just like the virulent hatred of anyone who voted for brexit, seems to be divisive in that shows that our political class really don't like the hoi polloi with their nasty uneducated views. |
Or put another way the Republicans care more about preventing equal opps education than people shooting up schools |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 17:52 - Nov 8 with 1867 views | lowhouseblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 17:50 - Nov 8 by reusersfreekicks |
Or put another way the Republicans care more about preventing equal opps education than people shooting up schools |
?? i posted about the uk. i don't get the connection. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 18:14 - Nov 8 with 1800 views | Clapham_Junction |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:35 - Nov 8 by positivity |
i don't see much of that happening from labour politicians, but they certainly shouldn't start! |
Many in the Labour leadership have been pretty derisive of people on the left, and I think this is something they really need to stop doing.
Labour only won the last election because the right was heavily divided – the huge majority masks the fact that their vote share was one of the lowest on record for a winning party. A good number of people voting Labour will have been centre-right Tories holding their noses to get rid of a disastrous government.
Should the right unite and those centre-right voters drift away, Labour don't have a solid-enough base to win the next election as it stands thanks to Starmer deliberately and repeatedly being quite offensive to people on the left (in an attempt to get those centre-right votes).
I agree with the comment from thebooks that Labour needs to deliver some decent left-ish policies and make these front and centre of their next campaign. They have had a few (like keeping rail nationalisation on the agenda) but they have largely been overshadowed by nonsense like the winter fuel allowance cut and suspending MPs who had the courage to take a stand on benefits. Many traditional left policies are extremely popular with the public but Starmer chose to move Labour away from these to distance himself from Corbyn.
These policies also need to be cost-of-living focussed, even if these won't deliver immediate results, they might make people feel like there is a better future - things like more council housing or looking at rent controls, both of which they can also argue for on a fiscal basis because they will deliver savings for the government in the long-term. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 18:17 - Nov 8 with 1794 views | Illinoisblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 15:26 - Nov 8 by The_Flashing_Smile |
One word, three letters: lie. |
Sadly, true:
|  |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 18:19 - Nov 8 with 1791 views | Guthrum |
I think there are limits to the lessons which can be learnt from the US election.
Different environment and a lot of different forces at play. After all, a number of those same elements were used in July (immigration, wokeness, disinformation) and failed dismally.
Big issues over there, such as faith and abortion, don't work in a UK setting. The British have always been more responsive to foreign policy than Americans, there aren't the same isolationist tendencies (even Brexiteers didn't want to ignore all the rest of the world). |  |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 18:42 - Nov 8 with 1757 views | positivity |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 18:14 - Nov 8 by Clapham_Junction |
Many in the Labour leadership have been pretty derisive of people on the left, and I think this is something they really need to stop doing.
Labour only won the last election because the right was heavily divided – the huge majority masks the fact that their vote share was one of the lowest on record for a winning party. A good number of people voting Labour will have been centre-right Tories holding their noses to get rid of a disastrous government.
Should the right unite and those centre-right voters drift away, Labour don't have a solid-enough base to win the next election as it stands thanks to Starmer deliberately and repeatedly being quite offensive to people on the left (in an attempt to get those centre-right votes).
I agree with the comment from thebooks that Labour needs to deliver some decent left-ish policies and make these front and centre of their next campaign. They have had a few (like keeping rail nationalisation on the agenda) but they have largely been overshadowed by nonsense like the winter fuel allowance cut and suspending MPs who had the courage to take a stand on benefits. Many traditional left policies are extremely popular with the public but Starmer chose to move Labour away from these to distance himself from Corbyn.
These policies also need to be cost-of-living focussed, even if these won't deliver immediate results, they might make people feel like there is a better future - things like more council housing or looking at rent controls, both of which they can also argue for on a fiscal basis because they will deliver savings for the government in the long-term. |
i see what you're saying, and agree.
i was thinking more of people on the right who didn't vote for labour (and guessing that was glasgow's angle too?), but you're right that the left/centre vote was also heavily divided.
i think the budget was quietly redistributive and we'll see more of that as the economic picture improves | |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 19:07 - Nov 8 with 1724 views | Clapham_Junction |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 18:42 - Nov 8 by positivity |
i see what you're saying, and agree.
i was thinking more of people on the right who didn't vote for labour (and guessing that was glasgow's angle too?), but you're right that the left/centre vote was also heavily divided.
i think the budget was quietly redistributive and we'll see more of that as the economic picture improves |
Re the budget I agree, but I am finding their approach pretty odd - they are not shouting loudly enough about the good stuff they are doing (possibly because it's a bit too left-wing for them) and as a result the negative stories get more traction. | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 19:16 - Nov 8 with 1714 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
From the outside it appears that the lesson for how to win the election is make vague and unrealistic promises you have no intention of keeping. I am sure there must have been more to the Trump campaign but "Trump will fix it", "you will never have to vote again," "we will put it all right," "everything will be great."
What can possibly go wrong? |  |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 19:26 - Nov 8 with 1694 views | positivity |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 19:07 - Nov 8 by Clapham_Junction |
Re the budget I agree, but I am finding their approach pretty odd - they are not shouting loudly enough about the good stuff they are doing (possibly because it's a bit too left-wing for them) and as a result the negative stories get more traction. |
comms can definitely improve, for sure [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 19:27]
| |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 19:28 - Nov 8 with 1679 views | BlueBadger |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 16:35 - Nov 8 by positivity |
agreed, but i'd say the "american religious right", not really a thing here |
No, but 'awful c**ts who hate 'diffrunt peepul' ARE. |  |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 19:36 - Nov 8 with 1664 views | lowhouseblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 19:16 - Nov 8 by Nthsuffolkblue |
From the outside it appears that the lesson for how to win the election is make vague and unrealistic promises you have no intention of keeping. I am sure there must have been more to the Trump campaign but "Trump will fix it", "you will never have to vote again," "we will put it all right," "everything will be great."
What can possibly go wrong? |
i'm not sure that analysing it at the level of whether promises will be kept or not is right. in large part the result is a scream of anger against a political establishment that they don't think is interested in them. trump articulates a political wrecking ball philosophy and for lots of non-middle class US voters that's what they want. it's not a small cranky minority anymore who have lost faith in that political establishment. what is amazing is that the democrat politicians and their supporters in the media etc seem to have never seen it coming. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 21:05 - Nov 8 with 1564 views | LeoMuff |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 14:37 - Nov 8 by MattinLondon |
Be interesting to see how a possible Farmers strike is reported or, whether the public has sympathy for them. A lot of goodwill towards junior docs, not so much for railworkers. Wondering where farmers will fit into all this. |
I really can’t see much sympathy for farmers having to pay half the IHT everyone else has to pay on assets over £1m. But maybe I’m wrong. |  |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 21:29 - Nov 8 with 1552 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 21:05 - Nov 8 by LeoMuff |
I really can’t see much sympathy for farmers having to pay half the IHT everyone else has to pay on assets over £1m. But maybe I’m wrong. |
Farmers striking hurts only themselves. Doubt it will happen.
Most are not going to be affected. Those that are can get a loan to pay the IHT and spread it over 25 years like a mortgage. Not unreasonable if you suddenly inherit £2m of assets and a profitable business.... | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 21:43 - Nov 8 with 1533 views | Swansea_Blue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 18:19 - Nov 8 by Guthrum |
I think there are limits to the lessons which can be learnt from the US election.
Different environment and a lot of different forces at play. After all, a number of those same elements were used in July (immigration, wokeness, disinformation) and failed dismally.
Big issues over there, such as faith and abortion, don't work in a UK setting. The British have always been more responsive to foreign policy than Americans, there aren't the same isolationist tendencies (even Brexiteers didn't want to ignore all the rest of the world). |
Issue like abortion and foreign didn't turn out to be big issues over there. Ultimately they appealed to selfishness, and that works here as well as over there. |  |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 21:54 - Nov 8 with 1518 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 21:43 - Nov 8 by Swansea_Blue |
Issue like abortion and foreign didn't turn out to be big issues over there. Ultimately they appealed to selfishness, and that works here as well as over there. |
People tend to vote for what affects them rather than what appalls them. |  |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:16 - Nov 8 with 1470 views | lowhouseblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 21:54 - Nov 8 by GlasgowBlue |
People tend to vote for what affects them rather than what appalls them. |
but electing a us president is different from electing a uk government. the state level provides a lot of what really matters, so the federal level is a free hit to express what you're angry about. it's like ukip in the european parliament elections - people electing ukip to wreck something they don't support. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:25 - Nov 8 with 1440 views | mutters |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:47 - Nov 8 by Illinoisblue |
The right are very good at firing up their base and that’s partly because their base is less educated; Labour/Dems need to work on their soundbites and slogans as that’s a huge part of the war. Of course it should be a grown-up discussion about policy and ideas but that ship has long sailed.
Trump went big with “immigrants are eating dogs” and American towns being “invaded by illegals”…. Hard to counter that stuff - even when it’s a blatant lie - so to your point the Left need to get ahead of it. |
Have you got stats/link on whether the right is less educated or is that anecdotal? |  |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:32 - Nov 8 with 1419 views | lowhouseblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:25 - Nov 8 by mutters |
Have you got stats/link on whether the right is less educated or is that anecdotal? |
they're less educated because they don't think like us. you need education to think like us. on this all of us with education are agreed. is this a group think bubble i see before me? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:47 - Nov 8 with 1366 views | redrickstuhaart |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 22:32 - Nov 8 by lowhouseblue |
they're less educated because they don't think like us. you need education to think like us. on this all of us with education are agreed. is this a group think bubble i see before me? |
It is well established that those who are better educated are less likely to vote right wing.
https://www.axios.com/2024/11/07/college-degree-voters-split-harris-trump | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
