| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? 12:35 - Nov 8 with 15228 views | itfcjoe |
If they want to retain power in 5 years time.....because the same playbook will be being used by the same people on the right of our politics.
- Don't go woke, don't lean too heavily into wokeness, DEI, etc. It just simply isn't what the majority of people want. If they want to try and fight a culture war they'll lose.
- Immigration has to be seen to be under control, whether it is or isn't
- There is a big misinformation and disinformation war going on, they need to get their generals in the game before they are too far behind to come back in this. What do they need to do to go up against the Steve Bannon's and Elon Musk's off the world.
- Give the working classes something to believe in, and that needs to come from the bottom up and not the top down. They have to respect the working classes, listen to them and not tell them why they are wrong, why they don't like them, why they are a constant let down to the bourgeoisie.
- Be fun, have a twinkle in their eye and a laugh at times. People like Angela Rayner manage it well, don't be so serious all the time.
Just spit balling, sure people will be along to tell me wrong I am soon! [Post edited 8 Nov 2024 12:37]
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:35 - Nov 10 with 870 views | blueasfook |
Unless the boats were made of wood, the woodpeckers wouldn't peck them, so that plan is doomed to fail. I read Germany are now considering sending illegal immigrants to Rwanda. Using the same accommodation that Britain paid for to be built and then abandoned. Interesting. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:44 - Nov 10 with 840 views | Zapers |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:35 - Nov 10 by blueasfook |
Unless the boats were made of wood, the woodpeckers wouldn't peck them, so that plan is doomed to fail. I read Germany are now considering sending illegal immigrants to Rwanda. Using the same accommodation that Britain paid for to be built and then abandoned. Interesting. |
They are not illegal blueas, they are asylum seekers.
Personally I just don't understand why Starmer is trying to stop them. |  | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:49 - Nov 10 with 828 views | blueasfook |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:44 - Nov 10 by Zapers |
They are not illegal blueas, they are asylum seekers.
Personally I just don't understand why Starmer is trying to stop them. |
It does seem a shame to turn away all these young doctors and engineers I agree. | |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:06 - Nov 10 with 800 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:35 - Nov 10 by blueasfook |
Unless the boats were made of wood, the woodpeckers wouldn't peck them, so that plan is doomed to fail. I read Germany are now considering sending illegal immigrants to Rwanda. Using the same accommodation that Britain paid for to be built and then abandoned. Interesting. |
Yeah but these are trained woodpeckers. Trained to peck all boats. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:10 - Nov 10 with 798 views | blueasfook |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:06 - Nov 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah but these are trained woodpeckers. Trained to peck all boats. |
Well it's certainly a better plan than I've heard from the govt. Let's go with it. | |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:32 - Nov 10 with 764 views | NthQldITFC |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:35 - Nov 10 by blueasfook |
Unless the boats were made of wood, the woodpeckers wouldn't peck them, so that plan is doomed to fail. I read Germany are now considering sending illegal immigrants to Rwanda. Using the same accommodation that Britain paid for to be built and then abandoned. Interesting. |
I just looked up rubberpeckers and I got some fascinating nocturnal aids from the US. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:49 - Nov 10 with 738 views | lowhouseblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 08:16 - Nov 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Of course there has to be a sensible conversation about sustainable levels. Again, this is something a progressive government should be able to confidently debate.
My point is that progressive politicians tend to use two different tactics when debating immigration. Gordon Brown is a prime example from a decade ago. On the one hand we had the reform-lite “British jobs for British workers” mantra. On the other we had the example of him calling Gillian Duffy a “bigoted woman” for raising reasonable and genuine concerns about levels of immigration.
What I’m asking progressive politicians to do is have the courage to promote the cultural and economic positives that immigration has brought to the country whilst at the same time engaging with communities who aren’t necessarily seeing those benefits. They need to come forward with policies which set levels that take into account the needs of the country rather than using immigration as a political football, which both sides have been guilty of for at least thirty years.
Labour didnt have to do an awful lot to win the last election. In fact, they pretty much had to not say or over promise anything. Next time around they will be fighting on their own record rather than in the appalling record of the Tory government. So the lesson that Labour can learn from the Harris campaign is to speak positively about their record in government and their core beliefs rather than attacking their opponents and branding those voters who have concerns on immigration as “bigoted” etc. |
"have the courage to promote the cultural and economic positives that immigration has brought to the country". yes absolutely - we need to celebrate being a diverse and integrated country with people who where born elsewhere or who are the first or recent generation to be born here. all the main parties do that already - the tories have had diverse cabinets and leaders for example. but it is the level of current net immigration which is currently the political issue - something the tories allowed to run out of control. parties are being pushed by voters to be specific about what sustainable means. a big majority of the population think that net immigration currently is too high - they want politicians to act. there is also evidence that with such huge numbers over a short period integration is not working as well as it has in the past - and the negative impacts on certain communities are now greater. "the needs of the country" seem exactly the right test for me (again setting aside asylum where we have separate legal commitments). but the economic character of immigration has changed considerably since 2016 (a rather ironic consequence of brexit). in the eu our incoming migrants were overwhelmingly highly educated, highly motivated to work, productive and very economically beneficial. but the composition of current net migration is different. the proportion coming to work has fallen, the proportion who are low skilled has risen, the number of dependents has risen, economic participation has fallen and a large number are economically inactive. the number coming to work in the nhs etc (the classic argument in favour) is a tiny proportion of the total. while pre-2016 the economic contribution of new migrants was very positive, the evidence now (given low average skills, and lower economic participation) is that it is negative and constitutes a net draw on public funds.
politicians absolutely need to be positive about people who have migrated here, but if all we say about current numbers is that it's all lovely, and if labour does nothing to bring numbers under control we will simply be handing the political ground to people like farage. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 11:27 - Nov 10 with 657 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 10:49 - Nov 10 by lowhouseblue |
"have the courage to promote the cultural and economic positives that immigration has brought to the country". yes absolutely - we need to celebrate being a diverse and integrated country with people who where born elsewhere or who are the first or recent generation to be born here. all the main parties do that already - the tories have had diverse cabinets and leaders for example. but it is the level of current net immigration which is currently the political issue - something the tories allowed to run out of control. parties are being pushed by voters to be specific about what sustainable means. a big majority of the population think that net immigration currently is too high - they want politicians to act. there is also evidence that with such huge numbers over a short period integration is not working as well as it has in the past - and the negative impacts on certain communities are now greater. "the needs of the country" seem exactly the right test for me (again setting aside asylum where we have separate legal commitments). but the economic character of immigration has changed considerably since 2016 (a rather ironic consequence of brexit). in the eu our incoming migrants were overwhelmingly highly educated, highly motivated to work, productive and very economically beneficial. but the composition of current net migration is different. the proportion coming to work has fallen, the proportion who are low skilled has risen, the number of dependents has risen, economic participation has fallen and a large number are economically inactive. the number coming to work in the nhs etc (the classic argument in favour) is a tiny proportion of the total. while pre-2016 the economic contribution of new migrants was very positive, the evidence now (given low average skills, and lower economic participation) is that it is negative and constitutes a net draw on public funds.
politicians absolutely need to be positive about people who have migrated here, but if all we say about current numbers is that it's all lovely, and if labour does nothing to bring numbers under control we will simply be handing the political ground to people like farage. |
All fair point and in fairness my own confirmation bias as being very pro immigration has probably sugar coated the point I was trying to make.
What I’m attempting to get across is that we only get the negatives from a Farage and his ilk. Progressives, in my experience progressives don’t seem to be able to understand the real negatives and are unable to counter the false negatives so they fall into the trap of trying to appear Reform-lite with their language. And it simply doesn’t work.
So yes, address the negatives but promote the positives and don’t be afraid to do either. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 11:31 - Nov 10 with 650 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 09:44 - Nov 10 by Zapers |
They are not illegal blueas, they are asylum seekers.
Personally I just don't understand why Starmer is trying to stop them. |
They’re classed as illegal because the previous government shut down all safe and legal routes to claim asylum in this country.
The asylum process needs massive investment so that claims are processed far more quickly and we can give refuge to those genuine asylum seekers whilst deport those who are taking the piss.
Letting people rot in hotels for months or years isn’t good for the people staying there and breeds resentment in the local community who misguidedly think these people are living a life of luxury at their expense. [Post edited 10 Nov 2024 11:58]
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 11:39 - Nov 10 with 629 views | lowhouseblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 11:27 - Nov 10 by GlasgowBlue |
All fair point and in fairness my own confirmation bias as being very pro immigration has probably sugar coated the point I was trying to make.
What I’m attempting to get across is that we only get the negatives from a Farage and his ilk. Progressives, in my experience progressives don’t seem to be able to understand the real negatives and are unable to counter the false negatives so they fall into the trap of trying to appear Reform-lite with their language. And it simply doesn’t work.
So yes, address the negatives but promote the positives and don’t be afraid to do either. |
i agree - politicians discussing it in an open and honest way is what we need - and whatever their view recognising that it is legitimately a priority for lots of the public. i'm hopeful that we're moving on from recent politics where questioning current immigration or pointing to the importance of integration was automatically labelled as racist by some. on the left pro-immigration has become almost a defining issue - and a surprising number are when challenged starting from an almost open border stance. my hope is that labour will have done enough by 2029 to mean that it isn't as big an issue at the next election.
tangentially i though this was quite interesting analysis on the us by the bbc:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0mzl7zygpmo | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 11:53 - Nov 10 with 607 views | Zapers |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 11:31 - Nov 10 by GlasgowBlue |
They’re classed as illegal because the previous government shut down all safe and legal routes to claim asylum in this country.
The asylum process needs massive investment so that claims are processed far more quickly and we can give refuge to those genuine asylum seekers whilst deport those who are taking the piss.
Letting people rot in hotels for months or years isn’t good for the people staying there and breeds resentment in the local community who misguidedly think these people are living a life of luxury at their expense. [Post edited 10 Nov 2024 11:58]
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We know the problem GB, it's how one goes about resolving it.
Keep borrowing money to prop up services, is not the answer. More taxable income is required, but is unlikely to be forthcoming because at least governments know that you can only bleed people so much.
Immigration is costing fortunes, but Britain is not the only country trying to resolve this unfortunate situation. As blueas stated, even Germany is considering the Rwanda solution.
I don't claim to know the answer, but i do know that it has to be resolved because otherwise governments will have to keep borrowing more and more money. | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:01 - Nov 10 with 571 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 11:53 - Nov 10 by Zapers |
We know the problem GB, it's how one goes about resolving it.
Keep borrowing money to prop up services, is not the answer. More taxable income is required, but is unlikely to be forthcoming because at least governments know that you can only bleed people so much.
Immigration is costing fortunes, but Britain is not the only country trying to resolve this unfortunate situation. As blueas stated, even Germany is considering the Rwanda solution.
I don't claim to know the answer, but i do know that it has to be resolved because otherwise governments will have to keep borrowing more and more money. |
Offshore processing in itself isn't a major issue for me. The problem with the Rwanda scheme was that after being processed, if an applicant was granted asylum they would remain in Rwanda. We were closing the door on any asylum seekers settling here. | |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:07 - Nov 10 with 556 views | Zapers |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 12:01 - Nov 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Offshore processing in itself isn't a major issue for me. The problem with the Rwanda scheme was that after being processed, if an applicant was granted asylum they would remain in Rwanda. We were closing the door on any asylum seekers settling here. |
Even if they had the necessary skills to contribute from day 1? | | | |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:18 - Nov 10 with 477 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
It was a "real terms" increase. That means it is already adjusted for inflation over that actual period. It is double the inflationary increase. |  |
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| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 13:57 - Nov 10 with 437 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| What do Labour need to learn from the US election? on 07:45 - Nov 10 by Zapers |
Way too early to gloat.
You better hope you get a trade deal with the man you all hate.
Otherwise Reeves is gonna have a massive nightmare on her hands.
Not forgetting the likelihood that the farmers will soon grind the country to a halt. |
As long as it's also way too early to jump on, misrepresent and shout about a change in gilt values too! | |
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