| Will our captain 19:59 - Nov 29 with 17775 views | chicoazul |
be wearing rainbow laces or the armband this weekend? |  |
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| Will our captain on 18:26 - Dec 1 with 1694 views | itfcjoe |
| Will our captain on 12:11 - Dec 1 by monkeymagic |
It is well documented that Sam Morsy is a Muslim.
It is well documented that Muslims consider homosexuality a sin.
If Sam wears the armband and/or laces, he will be doing so under duress, not because he supports the cause : which any homosexual person would know. Him conforming under pressure does nothing to improve inclusiveness.
If the club wants to promote inclusion, it should do so. If the club has a problem with employees not being aligned to their views, that’s an issue for the club to tackle.
I’m personally not sure an employer should base recruitment or disciplinary measures on whether an employee is willing to support a non business related issue.
In the context of the business concerned here, it would make much more sense for a football club to stick to football, rather than dabbling with societal issues. . If there’s even a hint of discrimination at said club, then authorities should come down on it instantly/with full force. |
Muslim players have worn the Rainbow Armband, Granit Xhaka did at Arsenal. |  |
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| Will our captain on 18:28 - Dec 1 with 1681 views | itfcjoe |
| Will our captain on 13:41 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You seem to be avoiding Nthsuffolk's (reasonable) questions.
You say Morsy not wearing the laces/armband "indicates a section of society are unwelcome at itfc." Does Morsy not eating pork mean I'm unwelcome at ITFC because I like a bacon sandwich?! |
This is offensive | |
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| Will our captain on 18:39 - Dec 1 with 1632 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Will our captain on 18:28 - Dec 1 by itfcjoe |
This is offensive |
WTF?!
Have you seen my explanation on the previous page? I'm deliberately being silly to show suggesting not wearing the laces/armband "indicates a section of society are unwelcome at itfc" is AS ridiculous as suggesting I'm not welcome because Morsy doesn't eat pork.
Hint: Neither of these things are true! |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Will our captain on 18:41 - Dec 1 with 1620 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Will our captain on 18:23 - Dec 1 by GlasgowBlue |
Christ all fcuking mighty! |
Engage your brain Glassers. I've even explained it for the hard of thinking (i.e. you and Joe apparently). My comment has two uparrows (and no down) from people who do understand the point being made.
Or maybe you've seen it was me and that's the real reason you've lunged in two footed. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 18:42 - Dec 1 with 1609 views | Bloots |
| Will our captain on 14:24 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I'm being deliberately silly to make a point about something which is also silly.
To suggest not wearing the laces/armband "indicates a section of society are unwelcome at itfc" is silly IMO. It indicates someone doesn't want to take part in a statement, for whatever reason. But to make the leap to say it goes further and suggests he thinks some are unwelcome at ITFC is ridiculous. It's AS ridiculous as suggesting I'm not welcome because Morsy doesn't eat pork. |
....it's because he thinks that it's wrong and a sin to be homosexual.
That's wrong, and so is he. |  |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| Will our captain on 18:46 - Dec 1 with 1560 views | Mullet |
| Will our captain on 18:23 - Dec 1 by GlasgowBlue |
Christ all fcuking mighty! |
Possibly not the best response old boy! |  |
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| Will our captain on 18:48 - Dec 1 with 1533 views | Dubtractor |
| Will our captain on 18:39 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
WTF?!
Have you seen my explanation on the previous page? I'm deliberately being silly to show suggesting not wearing the laces/armband "indicates a section of society are unwelcome at itfc" is AS ridiculous as suggesting I'm not welcome because Morsy doesn't eat pork.
Hint: Neither of these things are true! |
Just wading into this, to say that this is a REALLY poor comparison.
The rainbow laces/armband thing is a specific event to support a group(s) who have been discriminated against horribly over decades, and who are finally (mostly) being allowed the freedoms that they should have had years ago.
Eating pork (or not) is a choice that people can easily make without anyone else needing to be impacted.
I don't for one minute take offense with your statement, but it misses the mark somewhat.
FWIW, I also don't personally take offense at Morsy's choice, but I'd be pretty disappointed if I was a GBLT (and others) supporter of ITFC. |  |
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| Will our captain on 18:56 - Dec 1 with 1481 views | gtsb1966 |
| Will our captain on 18:48 - Dec 1 by Dubtractor |
Just wading into this, to say that this is a REALLY poor comparison.
The rainbow laces/armband thing is a specific event to support a group(s) who have been discriminated against horribly over decades, and who are finally (mostly) being allowed the freedoms that they should have had years ago.
Eating pork (or not) is a choice that people can easily make without anyone else needing to be impacted.
I don't for one minute take offense with your statement, but it misses the mark somewhat.
FWIW, I also don't personally take offense at Morsy's choice, but I'd be pretty disappointed if I was a GBLT (and others) supporter of ITFC. |
Your second part of your second paragraph. To me is the reason we should leave it now. Things like Gay Pride and Rainbow laces are no longer needed. |  | | |
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| Will our captain on 18:59 - Dec 1 with 1469 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Will our captain on 18:48 - Dec 1 by Dubtractor |
Just wading into this, to say that this is a REALLY poor comparison.
The rainbow laces/armband thing is a specific event to support a group(s) who have been discriminated against horribly over decades, and who are finally (mostly) being allowed the freedoms that they should have had years ago.
Eating pork (or not) is a choice that people can easily make without anyone else needing to be impacted.
I don't for one minute take offense with your statement, but it misses the mark somewhat.
FWIW, I also don't personally take offense at Morsy's choice, but I'd be pretty disappointed if I was a GBLT (and others) supporter of ITFC. |
I fully support the LGBTIQA+ community and have been on several Pride marches. I'll be disappointed if Morsy doesn't wear the laces/armband but I also feel we need to respect his religion, however unpalatable some bits of it might be.
But I can't accept if Morsy doesn't wear the laces/armband that means he thinks LGBTIQA+ community are unwelcome at ITFC. I think that's a HUGE leap to make. Not taking part in a thing doesn't mean you wish ill on those people.
Being Muslim means he doesn't eat pork... but I wouldn't think he'd be against me because I eat it. Hence me saying the first statement is as ridiculous as the second.
I'm surprised I'm having to explain this or that anyone (not you) would be offended by it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Will our captain on 19:01 - Dec 1 with 1451 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Will our captain on 18:56 - Dec 1 by gtsb1966 |
Your second part of your second paragraph. To me is the reason we should leave it now. Things like Gay Pride and Rainbow laces are no longer needed. |
Absolute nonsense. If you think homophobia, transphobia etc. no longer exists you've been living under a rock. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 19:01 - Dec 1 with 1448 views | Mullet |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 18:42 - Dec 1 by Bloots |
....it's because he thinks that it's wrong and a sin to be homosexual.
That's wrong, and so is he. |
True, although I think people often forget Christians and Muslims are fairly similar in this respect. In fact most faiths are likely to be deemed as still relatively patriarchal and homophobic compared to “woke” Britannia etc.
There are homosexuals of faith, there are homosexuals of faith who exercise “restraint”, right through to those who want to put homosexuals to death based on interpretations of their holy books. The difference is those in power in Islamic countries who believe that, aren’t any different to those in Christian countries from barely more than a hundred or two hundred years ago.
I’ve no idea where on that spectrum Morsy falls to be honest. I’ve had this debate with hundreds of pupils over the years and rarely have any advocated death for example. Culture as much as religion seems to be the main factor from my personal experience. You can also argue that being a pro footballer means he as likely to hear, see, think homophobic things as well as the fact he’s a Muslim I guess.
I don’t like that our club wouldn’t be welcoming to anyone under the rainbow banner. We presumably have fans who hold homophobic views as you would in any section of society, and most likely in over represented numbers too. Given the demographics and that.
It saddens me our captain might not welcome certain fans or even team mates, but he’s welcome to that view and his reasons for holding it. Only he can change his mind on that. Whether the club or the fans feel he shouldn’t be captain if that was the case is a slightly different debate.
Chico being a troll might have generated pages of stuff, but it’s an issue that’s no different to racism. You can’t police thoughts, only when people express them. I don’t see much condemnation of Morsy being outspoken about Palestine but I’d think if he or anyone else was being hateful about Jews or the LGBT community, he’d rightly get the full fury of the backlash etc.
Perhaps it’s his Islamic identity that ironically makes this worthy of debate - if he was a Catholic I don’t think it would. Let alone something like the recycling of James McCleans beliefs every November where at least there are actions and words for people to pore over. | |
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| Will our captain on 19:03 - Dec 1 with 1434 views | Mullet |
| Will our captain on 18:48 - Dec 1 by Dubtractor |
Just wading into this, to say that this is a REALLY poor comparison.
The rainbow laces/armband thing is a specific event to support a group(s) who have been discriminated against horribly over decades, and who are finally (mostly) being allowed the freedoms that they should have had years ago.
Eating pork (or not) is a choice that people can easily make without anyone else needing to be impacted.
I don't for one minute take offense with your statement, but it misses the mark somewhat.
FWIW, I also don't personally take offense at Morsy's choice, but I'd be pretty disappointed if I was a GBLT (and others) supporter of ITFC. |
Not sure he’s protesting Glassers either but I’d not blame Sam in that case! | |
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| Will our captain on 19:03 - Dec 1 with 1430 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Will our captain on 18:26 - Dec 1 by itfcjoe |
Muslim players have worn the Rainbow Armband, Granit Xhaka did at Arsenal. |
As do many Christian players, despite most denominations believing that homosexuality is a sin. |  |
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| Will our captain on 19:03 - Dec 1 with 1423 views | gtsb1966 |
| Will our captain on 19:01 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Absolute nonsense. If you think homophobia, transphobia etc. no longer exists you've been living under a rock. |
I never said it doesn't exist. | | | |
| Will our captain on 19:06 - Dec 1 with 1383 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Will our captain on 18:41 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Engage your brain Glassers. I've even explained it for the hard of thinking (i.e. you and Joe apparently). My comment has two uparrows (and no down) from people who do understand the point being made.
Or maybe you've seen it was me and that's the real reason you've lunged in two footed. |
Not because I saw that it as you, but in fairness I can't think of many other posters who would compare homosexuality with eating a bacon sandwich. | |
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| Will our captain on 19:22 - Dec 1 with 1281 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Will our captain on 19:03 - Dec 1 by gtsb1966 |
I never said it doesn't exist. |
Dubs said they're "finally (mostly) being allowed the freedoms that they should have had years ago." And you replied "To me is the reason we should leave it now. Things like Gay Pride and Rainbow laces are no longer needed."
Surely these things ARE still needed if homophobia and transphobia exist? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Will our captain on 19:23 - Dec 1 with 1272 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Will our captain on 19:06 - Dec 1 by GlasgowBlue |
Not because I saw that it as you, but in fairness I can't think of many other posters who would compare homosexuality with eating a bacon sandwich. |
In what way have I compared homosexuality with eating a bacon sandwich?!? You really can't be this stupid? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:24 - Dec 1 with 1270 views | Bloots |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 19:01 - Dec 1 by Mullet |
True, although I think people often forget Christians and Muslims are fairly similar in this respect. In fact most faiths are likely to be deemed as still relatively patriarchal and homophobic compared to “woke” Britannia etc.
There are homosexuals of faith, there are homosexuals of faith who exercise “restraint”, right through to those who want to put homosexuals to death based on interpretations of their holy books. The difference is those in power in Islamic countries who believe that, aren’t any different to those in Christian countries from barely more than a hundred or two hundred years ago.
I’ve no idea where on that spectrum Morsy falls to be honest. I’ve had this debate with hundreds of pupils over the years and rarely have any advocated death for example. Culture as much as religion seems to be the main factor from my personal experience. You can also argue that being a pro footballer means he as likely to hear, see, think homophobic things as well as the fact he’s a Muslim I guess.
I don’t like that our club wouldn’t be welcoming to anyone under the rainbow banner. We presumably have fans who hold homophobic views as you would in any section of society, and most likely in over represented numbers too. Given the demographics and that.
It saddens me our captain might not welcome certain fans or even team mates, but he’s welcome to that view and his reasons for holding it. Only he can change his mind on that. Whether the club or the fans feel he shouldn’t be captain if that was the case is a slightly different debate.
Chico being a troll might have generated pages of stuff, but it’s an issue that’s no different to racism. You can’t police thoughts, only when people express them. I don’t see much condemnation of Morsy being outspoken about Palestine but I’d think if he or anyone else was being hateful about Jews or the LGBT community, he’d rightly get the full fury of the backlash etc.
Perhaps it’s his Islamic identity that ironically makes this worthy of debate - if he was a Catholic I don’t think it would. Let alone something like the recycling of James McCleans beliefs every November where at least there are actions and words for people to pore over. |
....I'm not 100% sure where you are going with the last paragraph.
If you're saying that this is only a debate because he's a Muslim then I think you're wrong. If anything his "faith" appears to be getting him a pass from some people.
I fully expect that if a plainly non-muslim refused to wear the armband there would be little argument and he would simply be labelled a homophobe and get pelters for it.
The sooner a high profile playing footballer "comes out" the better in my opinion, it's the only way to address the issue fully.......but sadly I can't see it happening.
I wonder how one of our players would feel if he was gay and his captain took the active decision to not support an initiative that is designed to make the game open to all?
Maybe it's already an issue, who knows? | |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:33 - Dec 1 with 1210 views | Mullet |
| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:24 - Dec 1 by Bloots |
....I'm not 100% sure where you are going with the last paragraph.
If you're saying that this is only a debate because he's a Muslim then I think you're wrong. If anything his "faith" appears to be getting him a pass from some people.
I fully expect that if a plainly non-muslim refused to wear the armband there would be little argument and he would simply be labelled a homophobe and get pelters for it.
The sooner a high profile playing footballer "comes out" the better in my opinion, it's the only way to address the issue fully.......but sadly I can't see it happening.
I wonder how one of our players would feel if he was gay and his captain took the active decision to not support an initiative that is designed to make the game open to all?
Maybe it's already an issue, who knows? |
I think it depends on “sides” to be clearer you’re right some will give him the pass, others attack him based on that aspect of his identity.
Someone made the comparison with Rees Mogg I see, completely missing the point that he is completely inconsistent with his faith and its teaching to suit him. Not sure that works for Sam Morsy.
The fact players stay in the closet is shameful for all of us who love football I’d say. | |
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| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:33 - Dec 1 with 1211 views | lowhouseblue |
| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:24 - Dec 1 by Bloots |
....I'm not 100% sure where you are going with the last paragraph.
If you're saying that this is only a debate because he's a Muslim then I think you're wrong. If anything his "faith" appears to be getting him a pass from some people.
I fully expect that if a plainly non-muslim refused to wear the armband there would be little argument and he would simply be labelled a homophobe and get pelters for it.
The sooner a high profile playing footballer "comes out" the better in my opinion, it's the only way to address the issue fully.......but sadly I can't see it happening.
I wonder how one of our players would feel if he was gay and his captain took the active decision to not support an initiative that is designed to make the game open to all?
Maybe it's already an issue, who knows? |
how does wearing a multi-colour bootlace make the game open to all? treating everyone with respect and not discriminating or treating people differently certainly does. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:35 - Dec 1 with 1199 views | Mullet |
| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:33 - Dec 1 by lowhouseblue |
how does wearing a multi-colour bootlace make the game open to all? treating everyone with respect and not discriminating or treating people differently certainly does. |
Symbols and gestures are incredibly powerful. | |
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| Will our captain on 19:35 - Dec 1 with 1199 views | gtsb1966 |
| Will our captain on 19:22 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Dubs said they're "finally (mostly) being allowed the freedoms that they should have had years ago." And you replied "To me is the reason we should leave it now. Things like Gay Pride and Rainbow laces are no longer needed."
Surely these things ARE still needed if homophobia and transphobia exist? |
They will always exist as will racism but as a nation we are so "who cares" when it comes to sexuality and colour. By adding a special day/event to the above just adds fuel to the fire to the minority imho. | | | |
| Well, it's raising the discussion for a start... on 19:39 - Dec 1 with 1170 views | Bloots |
| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:33 - Dec 1 by lowhouseblue |
how does wearing a multi-colour bootlace make the game open to all? treating everyone with respect and not discriminating or treating people differently certainly does. |
...I'd hope that if a member of the "rainbow" community was reading this thread, for example, they'd see that the vast majority of us wouldn't discriminate against them at a football match and most importantly that it's a safe and welcoming environment.
edit: To be clear this discussion is primarily about the captain of our club not wearing the armband, not about rainbow laces. [Post edited 1 Dec 2024 19:42]
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| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:45 - Dec 1 with 1138 views | lowhouseblue |
| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:35 - Dec 1 by Mullet |
Symbols and gestures are incredibly powerful. |
much less so if they are compelled. we do need to insist that people at the club are respectful, welcoming and non-discriminatory. whether or not they then choose to also make some random gesture is neither here nor there, and not wearing a bootlace (a bootlace for god's sake), even if some group has said you must, doesn't make someone a bad person. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 20:27 - Dec 1 with 1026 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 18:42 - Dec 1 by Bloots |
....it's because he thinks that it's wrong and a sin to be homosexual.
That's wrong, and so is he. |
I agree. But I don't think that equates to those supporters would be unwelcome at ITFC. He may well think that but we don't have any evidence for it. You can disagree with something but still be accepting of that person as a human being and not wish any ill will on them. I fundamentally disagree with Tories' political beliefs* but I wouldn't want harm to come to them or for them to be banned from the club.
*For the hard of thinking, this is just another example. I am not equating being Tory to being gay. It's quite hard to think of a similar analogy - I'm just trying to say not taking part in a statement doesn't mean you want any will against that person. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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