| Will our captain 19:59 - Nov 29 with 17094 views | chicoazul |
be wearing rainbow laces or the armband this weekend? |  |
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| Will our captain on 20:32 - Dec 1 with 1674 views | football |
| Will our captain on 20:00 - Nov 29 by waveneyblue |
And here we go........ |
It doesn't matter. It's a sport, not a political issue. Just play the game. 11v11 trying to get the ball in the net. |  | | |
| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 20:50 - Dec 1 with 1599 views | Mullet |
| I don't disagree with any of that, but.... on 19:45 - Dec 1 by lowhouseblue |
much less so if they are compelled. we do need to insist that people at the club are respectful, welcoming and non-discriminatory. whether or not they then choose to also make some random gesture is neither here nor there, and not wearing a bootlace (a bootlace for god's sake), even if some group has said you must, doesn't make someone a bad person. |
Sure, but your point was about the campaign and that’s bigger than Sam Morsy or ITFC. The fact we are even talking about it is also significant |  |
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| Yeah of course, but.... on 21:02 - Dec 1 with 1564 views | Bloots |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 20:27 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I agree. But I don't think that equates to those supporters would be unwelcome at ITFC. He may well think that but we don't have any evidence for it. You can disagree with something but still be accepting of that person as a human being and not wish any ill will on them. I fundamentally disagree with Tories' political beliefs* but I wouldn't want harm to come to them or for them to be banned from the club.
*For the hard of thinking, this is just another example. I am not equating being Tory to being gay. It's quite hard to think of a similar analogy - I'm just trying to say not taking part in a statement doesn't mean you want any will against that person. |
....for every person that disagrees but is tolerant of another's opinion/view/lifestyle, there are plenty that aren't.
Remember all the months of "let's all punch a tory" on here? Classy stuff.
Anyway, you're totally right we don't know for definite what our club captain's tolerance levels are.
I know a couple of absurdly camp men that I'd love to knock on his door though, it would be great to see his reaction! |  |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
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| Yeah of course, but.... on 21:17 - Dec 1 with 1498 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Yeah of course, but.... on 21:02 - Dec 1 by Bloots |
....for every person that disagrees but is tolerant of another's opinion/view/lifestyle, there are plenty that aren't.
Remember all the months of "let's all punch a tory" on here? Classy stuff.
Anyway, you're totally right we don't know for definite what our club captain's tolerance levels are.
I know a couple of absurdly camp men that I'd love to knock on his door though, it would be great to see his reaction! |
I don't remember "let's all punch a tory", no.
Let's all punch a Farage I'm down with though. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 21:21 - Dec 1 with 1477 views | itfcjoe |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 20:27 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I agree. But I don't think that equates to those supporters would be unwelcome at ITFC. He may well think that but we don't have any evidence for it. You can disagree with something but still be accepting of that person as a human being and not wish any ill will on them. I fundamentally disagree with Tories' political beliefs* but I wouldn't want harm to come to them or for them to be banned from the club.
*For the hard of thinking, this is just another example. I am not equating being Tory to being gay. It's quite hard to think of a similar analogy - I'm just trying to say not taking part in a statement doesn't mean you want any will against that person. |
There’s probably a reason why you are finding it difficult to think of other, relevant, examples |  |
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| Will our captain on 22:16 - Dec 1 with 1393 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Will our captain on 19:35 - Dec 1 by gtsb1966 |
They will always exist as will racism but as a nation we are so "who cares" when it comes to sexuality and colour. By adding a special day/event to the above just adds fuel to the fire to the minority imho. |
Utterly clueless. We are absolutely not "who cares" about colour; all of my non-white friends have experienced racism of some kind or another. One even quit his job (in the Met) because of how racist his colleagues were.
Days/events serve as a reminder that the fact that (a) the battle is not won and there are still bigots out there and (b) even if things have improved compared to the 70s, many people in society experienced bigotry earlier in their lives and they deserve recognition of what they went through. |  | | |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 22:20 - Dec 1 with 1383 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 21:21 - Dec 1 by itfcjoe |
There’s probably a reason why you are finding it difficult to think of other, relevant, examples |
The point I'm making is hardly offensive though is it? To equate Morsy not wearing rainbow stuff is the same as him saying lgbtqia+ aren't welcome at ITFC, is silly IMO ...and I gave another example of a correlation that would be silly. Who do you think I'm offending exactly? And why are you offended? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Will our captain on 22:24 - Dec 1 with 1362 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Will our captain on 19:23 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
In what way have I compared homosexuality with eating a bacon sandwich?!? You really can't be this stupid? |
Still no answer Glassers. Colour me surprised. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 23:01 - Dec 1 with 1306 views | Vegtablue |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 22:20 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The point I'm making is hardly offensive though is it? To equate Morsy not wearing rainbow stuff is the same as him saying lgbtqia+ aren't welcome at ITFC, is silly IMO ...and I gave another example of a correlation that would be silly. Who do you think I'm offending exactly? And why are you offended? |
Just a view but to my mind the rainbow stuff message is that we support the inclusion of lgbtgia+ people in our sport, from the dressing rooms to the terraces, which wasn't traditionally the case and arguably remains so, but we're making progress. Morsy refusing or abstaining from this gesture amounts to him making known he doesn't welcome that message, from my perspective. | | | |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 00:17 - Dec 2 with 1210 views | tcblue |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 23:01 - Dec 1 by Vegtablue |
Just a view but to my mind the rainbow stuff message is that we support the inclusion of lgbtgia+ people in our sport, from the dressing rooms to the terraces, which wasn't traditionally the case and arguably remains so, but we're making progress. Morsy refusing or abstaining from this gesture amounts to him making known he doesn't welcome that message, from my perspective. |
This, really.
And if he personally agrees with it or not, he should still represent the clubs views, there's a few things my employer asks me to support which I don't personally agree with, but that's one of the hardest things about being in a 'leadership' position - you sometimes have to carry and indeed look to support messages you might not personally agree with.
There's no such thing as 'neutral' here; I hope none of us would be okay with our club captain visibly not being onboard with the Kick It Out campaign; religious beliefs don't come into this, it's poor from Morsy and arguably worse from the club. | | | |
| Will our captain on 07:11 - Dec 2 with 1077 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Will our captain on 22:24 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Still no answer Glassers. Colour me surprised. |
Sorry dollers. Missed the question. That is how it appeared to me. Having read your explanation I accept that I was wrong and you were actually making an insensitive and offensive comparison that one would normally associate from somebody under the age of 16.
[Post edited 2 Dec 2024 7:44]
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:11 - Dec 2 with 984 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 23:01 - Dec 1 by Vegtablue |
Just a view but to my mind the rainbow stuff message is that we support the inclusion of lgbtgia+ people in our sport, from the dressing rooms to the terraces, which wasn't traditionally the case and arguably remains so, but we're making progress. Morsy refusing or abstaining from this gesture amounts to him making known he doesn't welcome that message, from my perspective. |
Yeah I get that. However, I think abstaining from a gesture is one thing, I don't think it necessarily translates to "I don't want them in the stadium". I might be wrong of course, but we don't have any real evidence that that's what Mr. Morsy believes, and I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt. People are generally good. The example of the poppy has been brought up. I don't wear a poppy - but it doesn't mean I'm against people who've died for our freedom in wars. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:20 - Dec 2 with 957 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 00:17 - Dec 2 by tcblue |
This, really.
And if he personally agrees with it or not, he should still represent the clubs views, there's a few things my employer asks me to support which I don't personally agree with, but that's one of the hardest things about being in a 'leadership' position - you sometimes have to carry and indeed look to support messages you might not personally agree with.
There's no such thing as 'neutral' here; I hope none of us would be okay with our club captain visibly not being onboard with the Kick It Out campaign; religious beliefs don't come into this, it's poor from Morsy and arguably worse from the club. |
I understand your point of view. But I don't think "religious beliefs don't come into this" is correct. Of course they do, and you have to respect them to a point. If Morsy were promoting hate speech that would be a different matter. But if you can't take part in a certain thing because of your religion then we have to accept that. That's why the I brought up the pork thing. If eating pork were a thing we were meant to do to show solidarity with something*, we wouldn't be expecting Morsy to eat pork would we? I don't know why Glassers and others have said we wouldn't do that for other religions - I absolutely would.
*Again for the hard of thinking, I'm not saying homosexuality is the same as eating pork. Obviously. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:21 - Dec 2 with 954 views | GlasgowBlue |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:11 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah I get that. However, I think abstaining from a gesture is one thing, I don't think it necessarily translates to "I don't want them in the stadium". I might be wrong of course, but we don't have any real evidence that that's what Mr. Morsy believes, and I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt. People are generally good. The example of the poppy has been brought up. I don't wear a poppy - but it doesn't mean I'm against people who've died for our freedom in wars. |
The whole point of the rainbow laces campaign is to promote the message that “Football is for all and everyone should feel welcome”. By refusing to wear the armband, Sam gives out the opposite message.
Edit. And we don’t have to respect a religious view that believes being gay is a sin. It’s archaic. It’s thing having religious freedom to deem eating pork is wrong because pigs are dirty. It’s entirely different to believe that being gay is sinful.
Edit. Edit. And this from your post is ridiculous. “ we wouldn't be expecting Morsy to eat pork would we?”. FFS no one is asking a Morsy to engage in a homosexual act. These comparisons with eating pork and bacon sandwiches are getting more bizarre with each post. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 8:30]
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:31 - Dec 2 with 919 views | itfcjoe |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:11 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah I get that. However, I think abstaining from a gesture is one thing, I don't think it necessarily translates to "I don't want them in the stadium". I might be wrong of course, but we don't have any real evidence that that's what Mr. Morsy believes, and I'd rather give people the benefit of the doubt. People are generally good. The example of the poppy has been brought up. I don't wear a poppy - but it doesn't mean I'm against people who've died for our freedom in wars. |
But it's not abstaining from the gesture like you not wearing a poppy would be - it's actively choosing not to wear it and the message that that sends loud and clear.
Gay marriage was legalised in this country a decade ago, and when we look to see what the rainbow laces and armband campaign is supposed to signify, and it is just:
Clubs will also showcase the wide-ranging work they do all year round to support and celebrate their LGBT communities, showing there is no place for discrimination and demonstrating the power football has to bring people together.
Indeed, we ask all fans support LGBT people in football and beyond by making them feel welcome.
When you look at all the videos on the PL website of stuff that is being done at other clubs, and people like Aaron Ramsdale speaking out about his brother and what he has gone through, it saddens me that the club are not leading the way in this. I don't think in good faith we can put out anything on the socials as a club with regards to what we are doing for this campaign because one of our leaders here would make it look a mockery.
Whatever the reason, religious or not, it is simply not good enough - and putting silly examples up about it totally misses the point | |
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| Yeah of course, but.... on 08:32 - Dec 2 with 917 views | blueasfook |
| Yeah of course, but.... on 21:17 - Dec 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't remember "let's all punch a tory", no.
Let's all punch a Farage I'm down with though. |
Nige would batter you. |  |
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| Will our captain on 08:33 - Dec 2 with 910 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Will our captain on 07:11 - Dec 2 by GlasgowBlue |
Sorry dollers. Missed the question. That is how it appeared to me. Having read your explanation I accept that I was wrong and you were actually making an insensitive and offensive comparison that one would normally associate from somebody under the age of 16.
[Post edited 2 Dec 2024 7:44]
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You apologise and then repeat more nonsense.
I was showing how one correlation is silly... here's another correlation that would also be silly if someone drew the equivalence. I wasn't ACTUALLY drawing the equivalence, I was showing how that would also be wrong. And I also wasn't drawing a comparison between the subjects within the examples either (that being homosexual is the same as eating pork).
I'm not being offensive to Muslims OR people from the LGBTQIA+ community. What's more offensive is the suggestion that I am - either because you can't understand the distinction I've explained above, or you're deliberately aren't getting it in order to have a pop at me, either of which is not a good look. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:45 - Dec 2 with 883 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:21 - Dec 2 by GlasgowBlue |
The whole point of the rainbow laces campaign is to promote the message that “Football is for all and everyone should feel welcome”. By refusing to wear the armband, Sam gives out the opposite message.
Edit. And we don’t have to respect a religious view that believes being gay is a sin. It’s archaic. It’s thing having religious freedom to deem eating pork is wrong because pigs are dirty. It’s entirely different to believe that being gay is sinful.
Edit. Edit. And this from your post is ridiculous. “ we wouldn't be expecting Morsy to eat pork would we?”. FFS no one is asking a Morsy to engage in a homosexual act. These comparisons with eating pork and bacon sandwiches are getting more bizarre with each post. [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 8:30]
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I said "if eating pork were a thing we do to show solidarity". As opposed to doing ANY OTHER THING that shows solidarity. SOLIDARITY - NOT DOING THE ACTUAL THING WE'RE SUPPORTING. It doesn't matter what THE THING is - if you can't do it because of your religion then you can't do it. That is not remotely the same as "showing solidarity with the LGBTQIA+ community by having gay sex." How ridiculous.
It's quite clear the point I'm making. I've explained it and OVER explained it. You are just being a disgusting bore now, using this issue to have a pop and win a point on the internet. Shame on you.
I fundamentally disagree with your opening paragraph that by not wearing coloured laces and/or an armband Morsy is saying gay people are not welcome in the stadium. You would actually have to say "gay people are not welcome in the stadium" for that to be the case. Do you believe everyone who doesn't wear a poppy is against people who died for us in wars? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:48 - Dec 2 with 877 views | Swailsey |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:45 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I said "if eating pork were a thing we do to show solidarity". As opposed to doing ANY OTHER THING that shows solidarity. SOLIDARITY - NOT DOING THE ACTUAL THING WE'RE SUPPORTING. It doesn't matter what THE THING is - if you can't do it because of your religion then you can't do it. That is not remotely the same as "showing solidarity with the LGBTQIA+ community by having gay sex." How ridiculous.
It's quite clear the point I'm making. I've explained it and OVER explained it. You are just being a disgusting bore now, using this issue to have a pop and win a point on the internet. Shame on you.
I fundamentally disagree with your opening paragraph that by not wearing coloured laces and/or an armband Morsy is saying gay people are not welcome in the stadium. You would actually have to say "gay people are not welcome in the stadium" for that to be the case. Do you believe everyone who doesn't wear a poppy is against people who died for us in wars? |
N/T [Post edited 2 Dec 2024 8:48]
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| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:50 - Dec 2 with 870 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It isn't "For whatever reason" though, is it.....? on 08:31 - Dec 2 by itfcjoe |
But it's not abstaining from the gesture like you not wearing a poppy would be - it's actively choosing not to wear it and the message that that sends loud and clear.
Gay marriage was legalised in this country a decade ago, and when we look to see what the rainbow laces and armband campaign is supposed to signify, and it is just:
Clubs will also showcase the wide-ranging work they do all year round to support and celebrate their LGBT communities, showing there is no place for discrimination and demonstrating the power football has to bring people together.
Indeed, we ask all fans support LGBT people in football and beyond by making them feel welcome.
When you look at all the videos on the PL website of stuff that is being done at other clubs, and people like Aaron Ramsdale speaking out about his brother and what he has gone through, it saddens me that the club are not leading the way in this. I don't think in good faith we can put out anything on the socials as a club with regards to what we are doing for this campaign because one of our leaders here would make it look a mockery.
Whatever the reason, religious or not, it is simply not good enough - and putting silly examples up about it totally misses the point |
"But it's not abstaining from the gesture like you not wearing a poppy would be - it's actively choosing not to wear it"
I fail to understand what the difference is. "Abstaining" and "actively choosing not to" are entirely the same thing. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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