| There is no need to over analyse 16:56 - Dec 8 with 6243 views | itfcsuth |
It’s just a lack of quality for the PL.
Can look back at the summer window and say we got it horribly wrong.
|  | | |  |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:01 - Dec 8 with 3985 views | Trequartista |
We bought too many Championship players and not enough players from overseas in my opinion. |  |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:01 - Dec 8 with 3972 views | ibbleobble |
If it weren’t for Muric, we’d have at least 5 points more minimum…is that what you mean?
Walton in. Been saying it since Brentford. Walton should have stayed in after his decent performance against Liverpool regardless of Muric price tag. A precedent was set last season and should have been upheld this season. |  | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:24 - Dec 8 with 3873 views | itfcsuth |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:01 - Dec 8 by Trequartista |
We bought too many Championship players and not enough players from overseas in my opinion. |
Undoubtedly.
Bought too many really good Championship players, without appreciating the gap between Championship/PL.
Look at Cajuste, £10m value, one who looks a real player at PL level, better value abroad than here, and said so at the time were being overcharged for prospect English talent.
Got it horribly wrong in the summer, and will ultimately cost us. | | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:26 - Dec 8 with 3841 views | itfcsuth |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:01 - Dec 8 by ibbleobble |
If it weren’t for Muric, we’d have at least 5 points more minimum…is that what you mean?
Walton in. Been saying it since Brentford. Walton should have stayed in after his decent performance against Liverpool regardless of Muric price tag. A precedent was set last season and should have been upheld this season. |
It isn’t just Muric, goalkeeper errors are always highlighted, but beyond Muric, there is a lack of quality across the group for PL football. | | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:29 - Dec 8 with 3793 views | ibbleobble |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:26 - Dec 8 by itfcsuth |
It isn’t just Muric, goalkeeper errors are always highlighted, but beyond Muric, there is a lack of quality across the group for PL football. |
Of course but Muric has been the consistent weak link. Drop him. | | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:31 - Dec 8 with 3765 views | AYACCA |
Agreed, just not good enough but we have done ourselves a huge favour financially by getting to the prem. No point blaming the players |  | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:32 - Dec 8 with 3755 views | itfcsuth |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:29 - Dec 8 by ibbleobble |
Of course but Muric has been the consistent weak link. Drop him. |
I do agree, think bringing him out for Walton is best for all right now, also agree Walton shouldn’t have been dropped following Liverpool.
Thought it was a strange decision at the time given Hladky got in the time in the almost identical way. | | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:55 - Dec 8 with 3635 views | HighgateBlue |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:24 - Dec 8 by itfcsuth |
Undoubtedly.
Bought too many really good Championship players, without appreciating the gap between Championship/PL.
Look at Cajuste, £10m value, one who looks a real player at PL level, better value abroad than here, and said so at the time were being overcharged for prospect English talent.
Got it horribly wrong in the summer, and will ultimately cost us. |
If that is right, what share of responsibility does Ashton take for that, and does it challenge the orthodox view that he has done an amazing job?
Presumably the Chairman will be holding him to account if so. Oh... |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| There is no need to over analyse on 18:55 - Dec 8 with 3510 views | itfcsuth |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:55 - Dec 8 by HighgateBlue |
If that is right, what share of responsibility does Ashton take for that, and does it challenge the orthodox view that he has done an amazing job?
Presumably the Chairman will be holding him to account if so. Oh... |
I think as a collective everybody will sit down and probably acknowledge they didn’t get the business right.
But it isn’t just a Mark Ashton problem, I suspect he has barely any involvement with actually identifying talent, it’s just a collective acknowledgment we got it wrong. | | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 20:38 - Dec 8 with 3394 views | Trequartista |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:24 - Dec 8 by itfcsuth |
Undoubtedly.
Bought too many really good Championship players, without appreciating the gap between Championship/PL.
Look at Cajuste, £10m value, one who looks a real player at PL level, better value abroad than here, and said so at the time were being overcharged for prospect English talent.
Got it horribly wrong in the summer, and will ultimately cost us. |
Look at the Bournemouth substitute scorers, Unal and Ouattara. I've never heard of them, but they were bought from Getafe and Lorient. They wouldn't have broken the bank to get them. | |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 20:41 - Dec 8 with 3372 views | portmanking |
| There is no need to over analyse on 20:38 - Dec 8 by Trequartista |
Look at the Bournemouth substitute scorers, Unal and Ouattara. I've never heard of them, but they were bought from Getafe and Lorient. They wouldn't have broken the bank to get them. |
This was my argument re. a third senior striker all summer. We could've picked up someone on the continent to 'do a job' in a much savvier, PL-level way than AAH. | | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 20:42 - Dec 8 with 3363 views | sjg |
May as well not bother turning up for the rest of the season then | | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 20:44 - Dec 8 with 3348 views | FromReuserWithLove |
| There is no need to over analyse on 20:38 - Dec 8 by Trequartista |
Look at the Bournemouth substitute scorers, Unal and Ouattara. I've never heard of them, but they were bought from Getafe and Lorient. They wouldn't have broken the bank to get them. |
Around £35m for the pair. |  | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 21:14 - Dec 8 with 3256 views | Broadbent23 |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:01 - Dec 8 by Trequartista |
We bought too many Championship players and not enough players from overseas in my opinion. |
Because of our double promotion it gave us a free hit at the PL. I believe our transfer deals were for the future. Good young championship talent. But as we have found it is not good enough to perform week in week out, the consistency will come in due course. I agree we should have gone shopping for talent around the World Leagues and got a better mix Muhren and Thijssen were unknown to British fans for example. It is something for us to learn in the future. But since the Arab owners started buying PL clubs and more foreign managers came into the PL the player's standards have gone up, creating a bigger gap from the Championship. Even Sir Bobby might have struggled. The woes of many recent Man Utd managers is proof that talent does not always create success. | | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 21:24 - Dec 8 with 3215 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| There is no need to over analyse on 20:38 - Dec 8 by Trequartista |
Look at the Bournemouth substitute scorers, Unal and Ouattara. I've never heard of them, but they were bought from Getafe and Lorient. They wouldn't have broken the bank to get them. |
Bournemouth got promoted to the EPL in 2015, spent 5 seasons there, then took two years to return again. I think they have a lot more cred in potential players' eyes than we do, plus a better scouting set-up than a club like us who've been languishing in lower leagues and financial mismanagement for the best part of two decades. [Post edited 8 Dec 2024 21:25]
|  | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 21:30 - Dec 8 with 3163 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There is no need to over analyse on 20:38 - Dec 8 by Trequartista |
Look at the Bournemouth substitute scorers, Unal and Ouattara. I've never heard of them, but they were bought from Getafe and Lorient. They wouldn't have broken the bank to get them. |
Yes but apparently you only get to sign players from abroad if you had your scouting network up and running for 10 years.
It also doesn't help when you have a very restrictive lists of requirements for players. Must speak English. Culture etc etc. |  |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 21:33 - Dec 8 with 3153 views | bournemouthblue |
| There is no need to over analyse on 21:24 - Dec 8 by Hugoagogo_Reborn |
Bournemouth got promoted to the EPL in 2015, spent 5 seasons there, then took two years to return again. I think they have a lot more cred in potential players' eyes than we do, plus a better scouting set-up than a club like us who've been languishing in lower leagues and financial mismanagement for the best part of two decades. [Post edited 8 Dec 2024 21:25]
|
There's certainly an element of that going on there for sure
The strategy was home nations players really, who had good sell on value |  |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 21:44 - Dec 8 with 3087 views | itfcjoe |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:24 - Dec 8 by itfcsuth |
Undoubtedly.
Bought too many really good Championship players, without appreciating the gap between Championship/PL.
Look at Cajuste, £10m value, one who looks a real player at PL level, better value abroad than here, and said so at the time were being overcharged for prospect English talent.
Got it horribly wrong in the summer, and will ultimately cost us. |
But with Cajuste we’ve got 470 minutes out of him in 14 games, we didn’t have the freedom to bring in players and give them time to get up to speed with the English game and the PL
The clubs that people talk about us to emulate like Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth are so many windows ahead of us; are able to buy foreign players and take 1-2 years to get them ready to start for them and take over from their established players. We just didn’t have that luxury, we are trying to get to that position first |  |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 21:48 - Dec 8 with 3038 views | FrimleyBlue |
| There is no need to over analyse on 21:44 - Dec 8 by itfcjoe |
But with Cajuste we’ve got 470 minutes out of him in 14 games, we didn’t have the freedom to bring in players and give them time to get up to speed with the English game and the PL
The clubs that people talk about us to emulate like Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth are so many windows ahead of us; are able to buy foreign players and take 1-2 years to get them ready to start for them and take over from their established players. We just didn’t have that luxury, we are trying to get to that position first |
What about forest? | |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 10:27 - Dec 9 with 2767 views | Trequartista |
| There is no need to over analyse on 20:44 - Dec 8 by FromReuserWithLove |
Around £35m for the pair. |
Yes and we're paying roughly the same for each pair of Championship players. | |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 10:31 - Dec 9 with 2742 views | itfc_statman |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:01 - Dec 8 by Trequartista |
We bought too many Championship players and not enough players from overseas in my opinion. |
I think you're spot on.
Overseas recruitment is more difficult, with a higher risk, but also a higher ceiling.
We needed to mix it up a little bit and not just spend £100m in one locality.
Of course, overseas requires more adjustment time but if you're signing Championship players who simply aren't good enough, there's no real bonus to signing in England anyway?
But the OP is correct. Our starting 11 is not Premier League quality and that shouldn't surprise anyone. | | | |
| There is no need to over analyse on 10:49 - Dec 9 with 2715 views | algy |
Lack of PL quality in all areas, pitch, benches, technical area. | |
| I was there when McKenna's ITFC won in the Premier League at Home. Our only home win in a year. |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 15:51 - Dec 9 with 2518 views | hoppy |
Why do you think people tend to over analyse? |  |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 16:45 - Dec 9 with 2474 views | Radlett_blue |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:55 - Dec 8 by HighgateBlue |
If that is right, what share of responsibility does Ashton take for that, and does it challenge the orthodox view that he has done an amazing job?
Presumably the Chairman will be holding him to account if so. Oh... |
We've primarily bought very good Championship level players, but largely young players who have the potential to step up & some of whom could be sold on for a good profit. Maybe less risky than buying from overseas, especially if we don't have the scouting network to trawl that market effectively. The problem is that yes, we lack quality, especially from the bench & given our unfortunate run of injuries. Hamadi, for example, isn't good enough yet to be playing at this level. |  |
| |
| There is no need to over analyse on 17:21 - Dec 9 with 2451 views | Bellevue_Blue |
I think horribly wrong is a pretty reactionary and a bit of a stretch here. We had to recruit a team that would gel with the old team and most importantly be assets for the club. Additionally, the double promotion probably means our scouting network is miles behind everyone else and that dictated a certain strategy.
Omari Hutchinson - Been pretty good. Met/ surpassed expectations
Jacob Greaves - Definitely added competition/ solidity. Met expectations
Liam Delap - Now worth 3X what we paid. Surpassed expectations
Jack Clarke - Underwhelming. Not met expectations
Dara O'Shea - Definitely added competition/ solidity. Met expectations
Sammie Szmodics - Been pretty good. Met/ surpassed expectations
Arijanet Muric - Underwhelming. Not met expectations
Chiedozie Ogbene - Injured
Jens Cajuste - Really good. Surpassed expectations
Conor Townsend - N/A
Ben Johnson - Underwhelming. Not met expectations
Kalvin Phillips - Underwhelming. Not met expectations
4 of 12 not met expectations to date and 2 impossible to judge. Jack Clarke struggled to adapt but we know he can be a real asset based on previous form, Muric inconsistent but shows top quality shot stopping, Phillips looks like he won't get back to being the player he was and Ben Johnson is really struggling.
For us to survive we probably needed to be at 10/12 meeting/ exceeding expectations and there is of course time. We just have very little margin for error unfortunately.
The key thing is that if we do go down, we will have the basis of a really really good young team that will happily stay at the club. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
