| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? 17:03 - Dec 8 with 3644 views | Matt_Netherlands |
First off he’s saved our bacon a lot this season. Saves like his one on one block away at spurs for example - huge. But he’s still a bit unpredictable which I just don’t think can give his back line much confidence.
Thought for their first goal he would be criticised if he hadn’t come out, but as it was it looked like he rushed out quickly and was stranded (but like away to City).
Is he a better shot stopper than Walton? I think 100% yes, especially 1v1. But surely Walton has to be banging McKennas door down asking when he gets a chance? Maybe Walton is too nice and too quiet to be doing that?
For what it’s worth, I don’t think we will drop him but I do think another keeper capable of challenging to be number one will be signed in Jan. I thought the plan was always to sign two keepers over the summer anyway? |  | | |  |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:06 - Dec 8 with 2950 views | homer_123 |
It's tough call, genuinely.
He does a lot right, in fact an awful lot. Makes some worldies, saves he has no right to make.
However, as Burnley warned us, when he makes a mistake, it's costly.
I don't see KM changing him anytime soon. |  |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:08 - Dec 8 with 2889 views | ITFC_84 |
It will be an awful, awful decision if Muric is announced between the sticks next Saturday at 1:45pm.
Today (should be!) the very last straw. Cost us way too much. |  | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:08 - Dec 8 with 2895 views | Reus30 |
I think he doesn't provide the confidence in his defenders sometimes and he killed the game for us today, no need to come out for that, our back line was immense today.
After that only one winner, but he made sure of it by timewasting at 1-1 which was idiotic |  | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:10 - Dec 8 with 2871 views | BlueOura |
It's a bit of dilemma really. On the one hand he doesnt deserve to keep his place as he is making too many mistakes, but on the other I dont think we have another keeper that is close to being good enough to play at this level.
I'd be looking to bring another keeper in during the window and moving Walton on personally. |  | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:13 - Dec 8 with 2813 views | ibbleobble |
Walton in. Has been for a while. | | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:15 - Dec 8 with 2780 views | TractorWood |
Lots of people seem to be ignoring that Walton has played about 95 minutes since April 23 at two leagues below.
Muric is erratic and makes mistakes but it sounded like we had a golden chance at 1-0. No one seems to be screaming to drop Szmodics and Delap.
Muric has made some amazing saves this season.
The debate is vapid imo as if we do drop Muric we are left with an average keeper with little experience at a decent level.
Our ridiculous lack of resilience in midfield and upfront are more concerning to me. |  |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:18 - Dec 8 with 2714 views | MVBlue |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:15 - Dec 8 by TractorWood |
Lots of people seem to be ignoring that Walton has played about 95 minutes since April 23 at two leagues below.
Muric is erratic and makes mistakes but it sounded like we had a golden chance at 1-0. No one seems to be screaming to drop Szmodics and Delap.
Muric has made some amazing saves this season.
The debate is vapid imo as if we do drop Muric we are left with an average keeper with little experience at a decent level.
Our ridiculous lack of resilience in midfield and upfront are more concerning to me. |
Walton did fine VS Liverpool. He should get his chance again as a message to main keeper. Happy for a change to see. |  |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:23 - Dec 8 with 2640 views | TractorWood |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:18 - Dec 8 by MVBlue |
Walton did fine VS Liverpool. He should get his chance again as a message to main keeper. Happy for a change to see. |
Yeh he did fine but do you expect a material change in our results by changing keepers? [Post edited 8 Dec 2024 17:23]
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:25 - Dec 8 with 2592 views | GlasgowBlue |
He commands his box well but isn't a better shot stopper than Hladky or Walton. Hs decision making has cost us a lot of points this season so it is definitely time to give Walton a chance. |  |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:26 - Dec 8 with 2577 views | Ryorry |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:23 - Dec 8 by TractorWood |
Yeh he did fine but do you expect a material change in our results by changing keepers? [Post edited 8 Dec 2024 17:23]
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Would have gained at least 1 point & some morale today for sure.
Wasn't there, but sounds like our confidence got shot by his howler. |  |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:40 - Dec 8 with 2437 views | EJP |
Why has he started punching instead of catching? |  | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:49 - Dec 8 with 2326 views | LankHenners |
He's overall a better GK than Hladky and Walton - he's a proper eccentric which means he goes from one end of the scale to the other in terms of brilliance and ridiculousness on a game-to-game basis.
Obviously feels particularly annoying in the aftermath of a game where he makes an error but overall I don't see a point in dropping him. |  |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:51 - Dec 8 with 2300 views | HighgateBlue |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:15 - Dec 8 by TractorWood |
Lots of people seem to be ignoring that Walton has played about 95 minutes since April 23 at two leagues below.
Muric is erratic and makes mistakes but it sounded like we had a golden chance at 1-0. No one seems to be screaming to drop Szmodics and Delap.
Muric has made some amazing saves this season.
The debate is vapid imo as if we do drop Muric we are left with an average keeper with little experience at a decent level.
Our ridiculous lack of resilience in midfield and upfront are more concerning to me. |
Although Walton is perfectly likeable, and has done well enough for us at a lower level, I still have his performance against Fulham in the League Cup burned into my retinas. That was his chance to shine, and he really was pretty calamitous. The evidence of him against Premier League teams is hardly overwhelmingly in his favour.
Losing Hladky was surely a result of KM's decision that we needed an upgrade on him as our no.1 choice. Also it must have been his decision to sign Muric to be Hladky's replacement. KM is accountable for these decisions, and to be fair to the guy, has never shirked responsibility for anything.
I would love us to be able to turn to Hladky now, but sadly we cannot.
Maybe Muric just needs to do a lot of work on decision-making in relation to when to come out, and how he comes out. Palace's goalscorer had done his homework on how Muric comes out in a 1v1 situation (according to his post match comments), and it is clear that it is a weakness.
I find it hard to defend Muric, but I am really not sure that parachuting Walton in would serve any purpose other than a punishment for Muric. |  | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:54 - Dec 8 with 2279 views | RonFearonsHair |
From my viewpoint it looked as though his first instinct was to go and then he hesitated before finally going back to his first decision. A costly split-second of doubt. |  | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:01 - Dec 8 with 2233 views | BlueForYou |
Should be out of here in January! |  | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:02 - Dec 8 with 2223 views | Blaggers12 |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:49 - Dec 8 by LankHenners |
He's overall a better GK than Hladky and Walton - he's a proper eccentric which means he goes from one end of the scale to the other in terms of brilliance and ridiculousness on a game-to-game basis.
Obviously feels particularly annoying in the aftermath of a game where he makes an error but overall I don't see a point in dropping him. |
I think 'overall' is doing heavy lifting here. Muric is proven now to be the most error prone keeper in the league, and his get out of jail saves I would expect most keepers to make a few of those. He's frankly not good enough at this level. | | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:15 - Dec 8 with 2163 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:49 - Dec 8 by LankHenners |
He's overall a better GK than Hladky and Walton - he's a proper eccentric which means he goes from one end of the scale to the other in terms of brilliance and ridiculousness on a game-to-game basis.
Obviously feels particularly annoying in the aftermath of a game where he makes an error but overall I don't see a point in dropping him. |
This situation reminds me a bit of when Lukasz Fabianski played for Arsenal. A few of my Arsenal supporting mates used to call him 'Flappy-hand-ski', and didn't rate him at all, due to his propensity to keep conceding soft goals.
He moved to Swansea, was voted player of the season in his last season with them, earned a move to West Ham, started the first 24 games of last season before injury forced him out of the squad. He has eventually proven himself a solid keeper, but it took time, and it was certainly only once he reached his 30s that the consistency bedded in.
Arsenal took a punt on him when he was 22 and showing lots of potential.
I think young goalies are often a risk, as the footballing brain is the bit that typically takes the longest to develop in any player, and in keepers, the lack of good decision-making is always glaringly obvious.
I'd stick with him for now. But he really needs to work on when to rush out. |  | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:19 - Dec 8 with 2123 views | pointofblue |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:08 - Dec 8 by Reus30 |
I think he doesn't provide the confidence in his defenders sometimes and he killed the game for us today, no need to come out for that, our back line was immense today.
After that only one winner, but he made sure of it by timewasting at 1-1 which was idiotic |
I wouldn't call our backline immense. Burgess and, to an extent, Davis did well today. Johnson and O'Shea on the other hand... | |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:23 - Dec 8 with 2083 views | Ryorry |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:15 - Dec 8 by Hugoagogo_Reborn |
This situation reminds me a bit of when Lukasz Fabianski played for Arsenal. A few of my Arsenal supporting mates used to call him 'Flappy-hand-ski', and didn't rate him at all, due to his propensity to keep conceding soft goals.
He moved to Swansea, was voted player of the season in his last season with them, earned a move to West Ham, started the first 24 games of last season before injury forced him out of the squad. He has eventually proven himself a solid keeper, but it took time, and it was certainly only once he reached his 30s that the consistency bedded in.
Arsenal took a punt on him when he was 22 and showing lots of potential.
I think young goalies are often a risk, as the footballing brain is the bit that typically takes the longest to develop in any player, and in keepers, the lack of good decision-making is always glaringly obvious.
I'd stick with him for now. But he really needs to work on when to rush out. |
Appreciate your thoughtful post, but unfortunately we're not in a posittion to be generous in giving him time. Our job to stay up is already hard enough without him gifting oppos more points. | |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:25 - Dec 8 with 2070 views | TractorWood |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:15 - Dec 8 by Hugoagogo_Reborn |
This situation reminds me a bit of when Lukasz Fabianski played for Arsenal. A few of my Arsenal supporting mates used to call him 'Flappy-hand-ski', and didn't rate him at all, due to his propensity to keep conceding soft goals.
He moved to Swansea, was voted player of the season in his last season with them, earned a move to West Ham, started the first 24 games of last season before injury forced him out of the squad. He has eventually proven himself a solid keeper, but it took time, and it was certainly only once he reached his 30s that the consistency bedded in.
Arsenal took a punt on him when he was 22 and showing lots of potential.
I think young goalies are often a risk, as the footballing brain is the bit that typically takes the longest to develop in any player, and in keepers, the lack of good decision-making is always glaringly obvious.
I'd stick with him for now. But he really needs to work on when to rush out. |
Have an uppie for Flappy-Handski.
Second best pun to a Col U fan I know once calling Didz 'David McGoal-Drought'. | |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:32 - Dec 8 with 2010 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:23 - Dec 8 by Ryorry |
Appreciate your thoughtful post, but unfortunately we're not in a posittion to be generous in giving him time. Our job to stay up is already hard enough without him gifting oppos more points. |
Agreed that we really don't have time on our side, but for me, he is the best option we have. I don't think Walton is better.
Now, if we go in for another keeper in January who has top level experience, maybe so, but I doubt we will be looking at spending that sort of money when we have a real need for quality in other outfield positions.
And I'd be inclined to say if he gets more protection from better outfield defending (that weak right side, for example) he'd arguably be less exposed anyway.
Tough decisions ahead. [Post edited 8 Dec 2024 18:37]
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:32 - Dec 8 with 2006 views | rkc123 |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 17:06 - Dec 8 by homer_123 |
It's tough call, genuinely.
He does a lot right, in fact an awful lot. Makes some worldies, saves he has no right to make.
However, as Burnley warned us, when he makes a mistake, it's costly.
I don't see KM changing him anytime soon. |
When you read about some of the data analysis stuff about goalkeepers though the ability to save efforts some goalkeepers might not is really not that bigger factor in assessing their overall +/- on the team as a whole, his errors in judgment are often big mistakes that cost goals. I can't shake the feeling that we would have more points if we had stuck with Hladky, especially when you consider that the money spent on Muric could have strengthened elsewhere. | | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:34 - Dec 8 with 1989 views | WicklowBlue |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:23 - Dec 8 by Ryorry |
Appreciate your thoughtful post, but unfortunately we're not in a posittion to be generous in giving him time. Our job to stay up is already hard enough without him gifting oppos more points. |
Not exonerating Muric, but in the second half we really struggled to keep possession and there was way too much room between our defence and midfield. Personally I would have liked us to have brought Cajuste on earlier as Bournemouth were passing through lines too easily.
What's the latest on Phillips? |  | | |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:39 - Dec 8 with 1928 views | Ryorry |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:32 - Dec 8 by rkc123 |
When you read about some of the data analysis stuff about goalkeepers though the ability to save efforts some goalkeepers might not is really not that bigger factor in assessing their overall +/- on the team as a whole, his errors in judgment are often big mistakes that cost goals. I can't shake the feeling that we would have more points if we had stuck with Hladky, especially when you consider that the money spent on Muric could have strengthened elsewhere. |
Particularly since Hladky obviously already had an understanding with and confidence of the team members who remain from last season.
Hindsight of course, but choosing to sign Muric looks like the biggest failing in our summer recruitment drive, along with not being able to get in an experienced Prem #9. | |
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| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 19:08 - Dec 8 with 1809 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Can we have a sensible debate about dropping Muric? on 18:39 - Dec 8 by Ryorry |
Particularly since Hladky obviously already had an understanding with and confidence of the team members who remain from last season.
Hindsight of course, but choosing to sign Muric looks like the biggest failing in our summer recruitment drive, along with not being able to get in an experienced Prem #9. |
That was my argument earlier in the season and I got laughed out the room.
I said that there is a trade off between getting a new keeper in and the time it will take for said keeper to build a relationship with his team-mates in a season where every point is going to count. It always takes time to build that up and he is doing that literally in a place where we have no margin for error.
I think Muric is a slightly better keeper than Hladky, in particular when it comes to commanding his area, but he's weaker with his feet and distribution is nowhere near on the same level and he doesn't have the understanding and the confidence of the defenders.
We need better than both Hladky and Muric really, but I too have a niggly feeling that we may have ended up better in Hladky in the short term as there wouldn't have been that bedding in period that we're seeing with Muric.
Then there is this:
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