| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again 17:10 - Dec 14 with 5829 views | ReusersTown |
Seems we've got the usual situation where those that have stuck their colours to the mast about Muric are more desperate to be right than do what is right for the team.
You might also want to keep your powder dry, it looks like a big deflection off Clarke to me. |  | | |  |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 04:57 - Dec 15 with 1262 views | Swailsey |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 17:29 - Dec 14 by textbackup |
I know enough to read the facts that he’s cost us points this season.
That’s why I’m uncomfortable watching him in goal. If that’s ok. |
Mad that you’ve got 7 downvotes for an unprovocative, reasonable post. People on both sides of this debate are losing their common sense. |  |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 07:33 - Dec 15 with 1214 views | USA |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 17:22 - Dec 14 by ReusersTown |
It's more than fans just being annoyed though isn't it, he's been targeted to the point questions are being put to McKenna. As I've said it also took a big deflection, but those who in an talking about obviously don't want to acknowledge that. [Post edited 14 Dec 2024 17:24]
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I don’t believe the questions being put to McKenna are due to fan pressure. Journalists can see the same glaring errors and the journalists as well as their readers want to know the answers to such questions. That’s why the questions are asked. | |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 07:44 - Dec 15 with 1205 views | powinswitch |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 23:49 - Dec 14 by textbackup |
Of course, however, does it really matter?
He won’t read it, fans discuss things.
It’s not the end of the world |
Does it really matter. Yes, I think it does. It feeds an agenda that a small percentage have that Muric is not good enough. That then feeds a nervous energy in the stadium when he has the ball at his feet.
KMcK has built back to back promotions on playing the ball from the back. Muric did that very poorly against Man City. Since then, I’d suggest he has been a very good keeper. I think posts from people like you, digging him out constantly reveal a lack of football knowledge. The first goal versus Bournemouth, and the Wolves equaliser both come down our right, as have others. I’d look there in this instance Not for a scapegoat (or even an escaped goat). But to see if there is a pattern.
But more than that I’d trust KMcK’s selections, processes and tactics. And I’d be supportive of the players and team. And not look for that fabled scapegoat, which sadly Muric is proving to be | | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 07:58 - Dec 15 with 1157 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 04:57 - Dec 15 by Swailsey |
Mad that you’ve got 7 downvotes for an unprovocative, reasonable post. People on both sides of this debate are losing their common sense. |
It wasn’t a reasonable point though. Texters is only considering Muric’s mistakes, and not those times he’s saved us points. He kept us in the game yesterday after their equaliser (which wasn’t an error).
I didn’t downvote it, but it was a one-sided view. |  |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:20 - Dec 15 with 1113 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 07:44 - Dec 15 by powinswitch |
Does it really matter. Yes, I think it does. It feeds an agenda that a small percentage have that Muric is not good enough. That then feeds a nervous energy in the stadium when he has the ball at his feet.
KMcK has built back to back promotions on playing the ball from the back. Muric did that very poorly against Man City. Since then, I’d suggest he has been a very good keeper. I think posts from people like you, digging him out constantly reveal a lack of football knowledge. The first goal versus Bournemouth, and the Wolves equaliser both come down our right, as have others. I’d look there in this instance Not for a scapegoat (or even an escaped goat). But to see if there is a pattern.
But more than that I’d trust KMcK’s selections, processes and tactics. And I’d be supportive of the players and team. And not look for that fabled scapegoat, which sadly Muric is proving to be |
I think the issue about his distribution is a valid criticism. We’ve lost something by not being able to consistently play out under pressure. There’s no guarantee that Hladky would have been better in the PL of course, as the quality of the press is higher. I suspect he would have been, but we’ll never know. Now we go long more and the ball just comes back. It puts us more in the back foot.
But he’s made a string of saves of a quality I never saw Hladky make. | |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:25 - Dec 15 with 1103 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:20 - Dec 15 by Swansea_Blue |
I think the issue about his distribution is a valid criticism. We’ve lost something by not being able to consistently play out under pressure. There’s no guarantee that Hladky would have been better in the PL of course, as the quality of the press is higher. I suspect he would have been, but we’ll never know. Now we go long more and the ball just comes back. It puts us more in the back foot.
But he’s made a string of saves of a quality I never saw Hladky make. |
People are quick to say he can't pass. But he played some lovely balls out when under pressure. What doesn't help him quite often is the limited availability around him. There were times in that final 10 where he had the ball. Clarke hasn't dropped. Neither had oshea. So there were no right sided passes on which isn't great for a right footed keeper. |  |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:31 - Dec 15 with 1089 views | powinswitch |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:20 - Dec 15 by Swansea_Blue |
I think the issue about his distribution is a valid criticism. We’ve lost something by not being able to consistently play out under pressure. There’s no guarantee that Hladky would have been better in the PL of course, as the quality of the press is higher. I suspect he would have been, but we’ll never know. Now we go long more and the ball just comes back. It puts us more in the back foot.
But he’s made a string of saves of a quality I never saw Hladky make. |
Yes the argument about distribution might be valid. But it’s not only about the man on the ball. It is also about the way his 10 team mates make themselves available for the ball, and the standard of the press. It’s not purely about Muric, these other factors are valid too. In my opinion, listening to 9ne or two ignorant idiots round me shout get rid when he has the ball at his feet does not help. And clearly is at odds with what KMcK is building our game on.
He does have a part to play in the distribution issue and I don’t deny that. He has played the ball to people who have been under big pressure. But there is just more to it than him alone. | | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:46 - Dec 15 with 1057 views | SheffordBlue |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:31 - Dec 15 by powinswitch |
Yes the argument about distribution might be valid. But it’s not only about the man on the ball. It is also about the way his 10 team mates make themselves available for the ball, and the standard of the press. It’s not purely about Muric, these other factors are valid too. In my opinion, listening to 9ne or two ignorant idiots round me shout get rid when he has the ball at his feet does not help. And clearly is at odds with what KMcK is building our game on.
He does have a part to play in the distribution issue and I don’t deny that. He has played the ball to people who have been under big pressure. But there is just more to it than him alone. |
I had a little look into his pass completion rates this morning versus other Prem keepers who had played more than 5 games.
Overall Pass Completion - Average 72.9% - Muric 72.1% - Rank 15/23
Short (5-15 yards) - Average 98.9% - Muric 100% - Rank joint 1st
Medium (15-30 yards) Average 97.8% - Muric 96.6% - Rank 19/23
Long (30+ yards) - Average 43.2% - Muric 41.5% - Rank 14/23
I suspect people will pick out of that what they want. Overall I'd suggest his pass completion rates are fairly close to the average and even in the rankings he's by no means the worst of the bunch. The medium range ones are probably where the greatest risk comes from as if he messes it up then typically the opposition are in a decent attacking position. In total he's completed 171 of 177 passes in that range. | |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:49 - Dec 15 with 1047 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:31 - Dec 15 by powinswitch |
Yes the argument about distribution might be valid. But it’s not only about the man on the ball. It is also about the way his 10 team mates make themselves available for the ball, and the standard of the press. It’s not purely about Muric, these other factors are valid too. In my opinion, listening to 9ne or two ignorant idiots round me shout get rid when he has the ball at his feet does not help. And clearly is at odds with what KMcK is building our game on.
He does have a part to play in the distribution issue and I don’t deny that. He has played the ball to people who have been under big pressure. But there is just more to it than him alone. |
Oh, agreed. Playing out from the back needs them all and will be a lot harder this year than last. Muric’s only one link. He does also play out well at times, as others have said, so it not a particularly weakness. I just felt that Hladky was calmer. | |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:51 - Dec 15 with 1037 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:31 - Dec 15 by powinswitch |
Yes the argument about distribution might be valid. But it’s not only about the man on the ball. It is also about the way his 10 team mates make themselves available for the ball, and the standard of the press. It’s not purely about Muric, these other factors are valid too. In my opinion, listening to 9ne or two ignorant idiots round me shout get rid when he has the ball at his feet does not help. And clearly is at odds with what KMcK is building our game on.
He does have a part to play in the distribution issue and I don’t deny that. He has played the ball to people who have been under big pressure. But there is just more to it than him alone. |
As I said above its the speed of which your players move around that decides how good a keepers distribution is..
Hladky had it easy last season. He knew when he got the ball. Wolfy. Burgess dropped. Leif dropped. Morsy dropped. He could pinball the ball around.
This season muric hasn't had the luxury of a settled backing so he doesn't trust or know where his defenders are. | |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:53 - Dec 15 with 1034 views | Mullet |
Tbh they can do one. Sick of people desperate to dig him and others out before a ball is kicked.
Especially when they don’t even watch the play, the build up etc. Same as when Ali missed today - the fact he did well to get through and the defender knocked him off balance seemed to be oblivious to a few. |  |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 09:06 - Dec 15 with 998 views | powinswitch |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:46 - Dec 15 by SheffordBlue |
I had a little look into his pass completion rates this morning versus other Prem keepers who had played more than 5 games.
Overall Pass Completion - Average 72.9% - Muric 72.1% - Rank 15/23
Short (5-15 yards) - Average 98.9% - Muric 100% - Rank joint 1st
Medium (15-30 yards) Average 97.8% - Muric 96.6% - Rank 19/23
Long (30+ yards) - Average 43.2% - Muric 41.5% - Rank 14/23
I suspect people will pick out of that what they want. Overall I'd suggest his pass completion rates are fairly close to the average and even in the rankings he's by no means the worst of the bunch. The medium range ones are probably where the greatest risk comes from as if he messes it up then typically the opposition are in a decent attacking position. In total he's completed 171 of 177 passes in that range. |
Thanks for finding those. As you say. People will read what they want. There are other stats about shots saved, crosses claimed etc. Muric scores very well. Not got the time to find them as her indoors apparently has better things for us to do than discuss ‘supporters’ digging out one of their own. Constantly | | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 09:10 - Dec 15 with 984 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 04:51 - Dec 15 by ibbleobble |
That’s the problem for me, the “room for improvement”. At 26 we’ve looked at Muric as a good investment at £10m because he could have a long career here and get better-and-better. A no brainer really from an investment point-of-view but the reality is, he will make mistakes as he’s got a lot of work to do to grow into being the finished article. In our position knowing the tough season we’ll have, more experience would have been a better bet.
If we can ride the next 6 - 10 games without any more calamities he’ll get stronger in the second half of the season but that’s a big IF and a gamble. Gambling at this level is very uncharacteristic of us, which is odd and raises question marks over the policy for me. |
I don't see that he has a lot of work to do at all. His weakness is he has the occasional brain fart but he's an excellent goalkeeper in most respects.
Superb at dealing with crosses - best crosses stopped % in Europe. Already stopped 2 more crosses this season than Hladky did in the whole of last season.
Top 10 in the league for pass completion
Top 10 in the league for goals expected to concede vs goals conceded
4th in the league for his save %
He's performing better than Aaron Ramsdale on every metric from the stats I can see. Southampton paid twice as much for him! | | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 09:15 - Dec 15 with 958 views | Churchman |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 08:51 - Dec 15 by FrimleyBlue |
As I said above its the speed of which your players move around that decides how good a keepers distribution is..
Hladky had it easy last season. He knew when he got the ball. Wolfy. Burgess dropped. Leif dropped. Morsy dropped. He could pinball the ball around.
This season muric hasn't had the luxury of a settled backing so he doesn't trust or know where his defenders are. |
I think lack of a settled defence/team is a good point. I would add that Hladky was getting found out a bit second half of last season and the effectiveness of his playing out from the back reduced.
The sheer speed and skill with which players press is a different level in the Premier League. I don’t think it would have been a lot different with Hladky, but who knows - that aspect of his game is better than Muric in my view.
Passing or playing out from the back in the way teams do scares the heck out of me, but I guess unless you are going to play hoofball it’s the only way to do it.
So is Muric a better keeper? Yes. He’s a big bloke and has a certain presence. He will come for the ball and can make stunning saves. He has an error in him but he is only 26. Young for a goalkeeper, so hopefully he will improve. |  | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 09:16 - Dec 15 with 949 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 09:10 - Dec 15 by tractorboy1978 |
I don't see that he has a lot of work to do at all. His weakness is he has the occasional brain fart but he's an excellent goalkeeper in most respects.
Superb at dealing with crosses - best crosses stopped % in Europe. Already stopped 2 more crosses this season than Hladky did in the whole of last season.
Top 10 in the league for pass completion
Top 10 in the league for goals expected to concede vs goals conceded
4th in the league for his save %
He's performing better than Aaron Ramsdale on every metric from the stats I can see. Southampton paid twice as much for him! |
Not forgetting we made him busier than he needed to be yesterday. The goal shouldn't have even been able to be made. Then the flow of shots after. | |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:12 - Dec 15 with 914 views | Swailsey |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 07:58 - Dec 15 by Swansea_Blue |
It wasn’t a reasonable point though. Texters is only considering Muric’s mistakes, and not those times he’s saved us points. He kept us in the game yesterday after their equaliser (which wasn’t an error).
I didn’t downvote it, but it was a one-sided view. |
But on balance Texters believes he has cost us more than he’s saved. Surely people are allowed opinions without always having to show all their workings all the time? | |
| Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:26 - Dec 15 with 875 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:12 - Dec 15 by Swailsey |
But on balance Texters believes he has cost us more than he’s saved. Surely people are allowed opinions without always having to show all their workings all the time? |
So do I, some of his decision making is off the scale.
Just because a goalie is capable of making some decent saves when called upon doesn't mean he is necessarily up to the standard we need. |  |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:31 - Dec 15 with 855 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:26 - Dec 15 by Lord_Lucan |
So do I, some of his decision making is off the scale.
Just because a goalie is capable of making some decent saves when called upon doesn't mean he is necessarily up to the standard we need. |
You have to take into account statistical evidence though surely? I get that it's frustrating when he has a brain fart moment, but I really don't see how you can argue he hasn't been up to the standard required when he's been the 4th best shot stopper in the league and the best at collecting crosses in Europe. | | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:39 - Dec 15 with 825 views | ibbleobble |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 09:10 - Dec 15 by tractorboy1978 |
I don't see that he has a lot of work to do at all. His weakness is he has the occasional brain fart but he's an excellent goalkeeper in most respects.
Superb at dealing with crosses - best crosses stopped % in Europe. Already stopped 2 more crosses this season than Hladky did in the whole of last season.
Top 10 in the league for pass completion
Top 10 in the league for goals expected to concede vs goals conceded
4th in the league for his save %
He's performing better than Aaron Ramsdale on every metric from the stats I can see. Southampton paid twice as much for him! |
I take those stats with a pinch of salt given who we are and where we are in this league. His confidence isn’t there at the moment. Whether that be because he was a bit part player in a relegation side or whether it’s inexperience I’m not sure but he looks petrified and nervous at times and that needs to change quickly as I have no doubt it’s the cause of some irrational decision making.
Like I’ve said before though, he does have good attributes but do we have the time to nurture him this season? It’s a gamble for me. | | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:40 - Dec 15 with 823 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:31 - Dec 15 by tractorboy1978 |
You have to take into account statistical evidence though surely? I get that it's frustrating when he has a brain fart moment, but I really don't see how you can argue he hasn't been up to the standard required when he's been the 4th best shot stopper in the league and the best at collecting crosses in Europe. |
Yes, it would certainly make a difference, much like the amount of times Hladiky (sp) gained us attacking chances by playing it from the back despite the odd clanger.
Where did you get the figures from? | |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:49 - Dec 15 with 808 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:39 - Dec 15 by ibbleobble |
I take those stats with a pinch of salt given who we are and where we are in this league. His confidence isn’t there at the moment. Whether that be because he was a bit part player in a relegation side or whether it’s inexperience I’m not sure but he looks petrified and nervous at times and that needs to change quickly as I have no doubt it’s the cause of some irrational decision making.
Like I’ve said before though, he does have good attributes but do we have the time to nurture him this season? It’s a gamble for me. |
‘but do we have the time to nurture him this season?’
Clearly McKenna thinks so as he continues to pick him every week. |  |
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| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:58 - Dec 15 with 785 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 10:39 - Dec 15 by ibbleobble |
I take those stats with a pinch of salt given who we are and where we are in this league. His confidence isn’t there at the moment. Whether that be because he was a bit part player in a relegation side or whether it’s inexperience I’m not sure but he looks petrified and nervous at times and that needs to change quickly as I have no doubt it’s the cause of some irrational decision making.
Like I’ve said before though, he does have good attributes but do we have the time to nurture him this season? It’s a gamble for me. |
"I take those stats with a pinch of salt". Haha. Why is who we are relevant?
4th best save % so number of saves is irrelevant.
Best % of crosses taken/stopped (in PL and Europe) so number of crosses faced is irrelevant.
8th best goals conceded vs expected to be conceded. Who we are is irrelevant in this stat.
10th best long range (over 40 yards) pass completion %. So how many long balls have been played is irrelevant. I included this stat because people have moaned his long range passing is cr@p.
All taken from: https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats | | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 11:00 - Dec 15 with 783 views | DJR |
This is Stuart Watson's take.
"Praise for Muric
When Matheus Cunha's angled shot flashed inside the near post for 1-1, the social media meltdown over keeper Aro Muric started.
Unlike the goals conceded at the death against Brentford and Bournemouth though, this one was hardly a howler. It was a shot hit with real venom. Harry Clarke sliding in to try and rectify the situation wouldn't have made it easy to read either. Several Wolves players being allowed to head the ball forwards in the build-up was arguably the bigger issue.
Given the intense spotlight put on him over the last few days, I thought Muric showed really good character in this game.
I lost count of the number of strong punches over traffic and confident high catches he made. He was cool with the ball at his feet and he made some smart stops when called upon too.
To me, it feels like some are almost willing him to fail now in order to vindicate their own entrenched view point. That's sad."
And this is from Alex Jones' player rating.
"Commanded his area well and made five good saves. Unfortunately, he should have done better for Wolves' equaliser as he was beaten at his near post. The win means that will be quickly forgotten." |  | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 11:29 - Dec 15 with 730 views | mrfixit426 |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 11:00 - Dec 15 by DJR |
This is Stuart Watson's take.
"Praise for Muric
When Matheus Cunha's angled shot flashed inside the near post for 1-1, the social media meltdown over keeper Aro Muric started.
Unlike the goals conceded at the death against Brentford and Bournemouth though, this one was hardly a howler. It was a shot hit with real venom. Harry Clarke sliding in to try and rectify the situation wouldn't have made it easy to read either. Several Wolves players being allowed to head the ball forwards in the build-up was arguably the bigger issue.
Given the intense spotlight put on him over the last few days, I thought Muric showed really good character in this game.
I lost count of the number of strong punches over traffic and confident high catches he made. He was cool with the ball at his feet and he made some smart stops when called upon too.
To me, it feels like some are almost willing him to fail now in order to vindicate their own entrenched view point. That's sad."
And this is from Alex Jones' player rating.
"Commanded his area well and made five good saves. Unfortunately, he should have done better for Wolves' equaliser as he was beaten at his near post. The win means that will be quickly forgotten." |
Alex Jones' player ratings are generally laughable and bear no resemblance to what has actually happens on the pitch. He only seems to see and base his ratings on "moments. And you can forget him paying any attention to what players do off the ball, which is arguably more important than what they do on it. |  | | |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 11:46 - Dec 15 with 695 views | DJR |
| Lot of people desperate to dig out Muric again on 11:29 - Dec 15 by mrfixit426 |
Alex Jones' player ratings are generally laughable and bear no resemblance to what has actually happens on the pitch. He only seems to see and base his ratings on "moments. And you can forget him paying any attention to what players do off the ball, which is arguably more important than what they do on it. |
To be fair to him, it's all a bit subjective and I think he has to get it "into print" early in the evening, along with everything else he has to do.
On the KIngs of Anglia podcasts, he talks a lot of sense. | | | |
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