| Ashton, Werhun & Probert 20:58 - Feb 1 with 6706 views | itfcsuth |
and of course McKenna must take his share of responsibility in identifying players.
But we have looked like amateurs amongst the big boys in the transfer market.
Significant lack of quality, due diligence done, overpriced transfer fees and long terms contracts. Had our pants pulled down left right and centre.
You live and die by your recruitment, and it doesn’t need a huge over analyse as to why we will likely fall short of safety. |  | | |  |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:08 - Feb 2 with 1695 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 22:51 - Feb 1 by davblue |
It’s all really easy when you put it like that…
I’m sure your high level of expertise in that area is wasted in whatever day job you currently do.
We all know the club was run down in all areas, so it’s not much of a leap to suggest that we’ve been left behind in the scouting arena and there would be work to do there.
Could we have utilised the foreign market more, yeah I’m sure we could have have done, but that is no guarantee, look at what Norwich done, got a load of foreign guys for half the price and I can’t recall many of them being a success.
As I said I don’t think we can fully judge whether there has been poor recruitment until further down the line. For this year it’s easy to say it’s been poor but these are a younger group who could grow with us rather than a group of older players.
Did we expect to stay up this year, for me me no, I hoped we would but that’s all. |
I agree with the vast majority you say, especially on how run down the club had become.
For me we have signed to many young players with potential. As you point out, they may develop, but not between now and next week. In my opinion to much focus has been on sell-on value, a pair of experienced old hands would do this team a world of good. |  | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:08 - Feb 2 with 1696 views | Tootingblue |
It's the lack of balance in recruitment that will have cost us. The obsession with buying young players, presumably with a resale value, together with an overload of physically weak attacking players, who get brushed off the ball too easily has been poor. We've been crying out for 2 or 3 physically stronger, more seasoned premier league campaigners all season. A Butcher/Mowbray style centre back and a midfield general was the minimum requirement, even if the investment was short-term for 1 or 2 seasons. And don't get me started on the Goalkeeping position. Anyone could make a mistake with the recruitment but not owning the problem and correcting it in the January window is unforgiveable. | | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:21 - Feb 2 with 1655 views | ITFCBlues |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:08 - Feb 2 by Tootingblue |
It's the lack of balance in recruitment that will have cost us. The obsession with buying young players, presumably with a resale value, together with an overload of physically weak attacking players, who get brushed off the ball too easily has been poor. We've been crying out for 2 or 3 physically stronger, more seasoned premier league campaigners all season. A Butcher/Mowbray style centre back and a midfield general was the minimum requirement, even if the investment was short-term for 1 or 2 seasons. And don't get me started on the Goalkeeping position. Anyone could make a mistake with the recruitment but not owning the problem and correcting it in the January window is unforgiveable. |
How much would 2 or 3 seasoned PL players cost, 90-100m? Should we have done that and kept the likes of Harness, Jackson and Ball?
I think this is what some fans fail to grasp.
Not to mention, a short term signing like those mentioned means that we don't get long term benefits of the PL money. [Post edited 2 Feb 10:22]
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:45 - Feb 2 with 1629 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:01 - Feb 2 by Reuser_is_God |
As good as Cajuste is I find the fact he still cant play more than 60 minutes a bit pathetic really. |
Yep and presumably why Brentford didn’t take him. | | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:58 - Feb 2 with 1607 views | Ryorry |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:21 - Feb 2 by ITFCBlues |
How much would 2 or 3 seasoned PL players cost, 90-100m? Should we have done that and kept the likes of Harness, Jackson and Ball?
I think this is what some fans fail to grasp.
Not to mention, a short term signing like those mentioned means that we don't get long term benefits of the PL money. [Post edited 2 Feb 10:22]
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Could have done with KJ and Harness yesterday, at least they’d have been prepared to run at Soton in the last 20 minutes yesterday.
As I said a couple of weeks ago, we’re really missing Chappers. |  |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 22:59 - Feb 2 with 1506 views | davblue |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:08 - Feb 2 by Blue_In_Boston |
I agree with the vast majority you say, especially on how run down the club had become.
For me we have signed to many young players with potential. As you point out, they may develop, but not between now and next week. In my opinion to much focus has been on sell-on value, a pair of experienced old hands would do this team a world of good. |
Yeah but if we want experience premier league players they tend to come at a cost that might have been too much for us.
Agree with you though some experience in the forward areas and at the back would have helped somewhat without question. |  | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 08:45 - Feb 3 with 1360 views | itfcjoe |
Easy to say, but what was the alternative? What players at similar sized clubs have we missed out on that we should have signed instead?
The difference is when top Champ players go to teams like Bournemouth, Brighton or Brentford - they go into settled PL quality squads and are drip fed game time. We haven't had that option to do that so they are having to learn along the way.
The squad is in a fantastic position for where we are next year, all these players will have all this added experience and will be much better off for it.
GK and CM are the 2 areas where we've got it wrong - Muric and Phillips the 2 errors that have seriously cost us [Post edited 3 Feb 8:55]
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 08:48 - Feb 3 with 1333 views | SomethingBlue |
How do you know what due diligence was done? | |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 08:54 - Feb 3 with 1302 views | itfcjoe |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 10:58 - Feb 2 by Ryorry |
Could have done with KJ and Harness yesterday, at least they’d have been prepared to run at Soton in the last 20 minutes yesterday.
As I said a couple of weeks ago, we’re really missing Chappers. |
Harness or Jackson couldn't even get into the team to start games when we are inL1, they are currently playing for a bottom 3 Championship side - they would be hopeless in the Premier League | |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 09:04 - Feb 3 with 1260 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 08:45 - Feb 3 by itfcjoe |
Easy to say, but what was the alternative? What players at similar sized clubs have we missed out on that we should have signed instead?
The difference is when top Champ players go to teams like Bournemouth, Brighton or Brentford - they go into settled PL quality squads and are drip fed game time. We haven't had that option to do that so they are having to learn along the way.
The squad is in a fantastic position for where we are next year, all these players will have all this added experience and will be much better off for it.
GK and CM are the 2 areas where we've got it wrong - Muric and Phillips the 2 errors that have seriously cost us [Post edited 3 Feb 8:55]
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Completely agree.
Without wishing to go on about it, the Muric error was obvious very early and I’m surprised they haven’t taken it on the chin. I’m sure it’s hard to find them but we had literally 6 months plus to find a goalkeeper and knew that on promotion we’d be needing at least 1. | | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 11:58 - Feb 3 with 1161 views | LeoMuff |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 07:28 - Feb 2 by smithy69 |
Imagine writing of players who are 20 - who have played less than 10 games in the premier league
I remember when people said harry kane was the worst player in the world and league 2 standard. With experience comes performances and growth . Writing off England under 21 players after such little time - is ridiculous
Some of our fanbase are just thick |
Especially as we have a prime example in Delap, 3 average/poor championship loans then rips up the prem in a struggling side. |  |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 12:25 - Feb 3 with 1123 views | OldFart71 |
Amazing how all these experts come out of the woodwork now we are up the creek without a paddle. Every player Philogene maybe the exception, was greeted with what a great signing. Now we are sitting in the bottom three all bar a couple were bad buys. Even Davis who was a top man is now out of his depth. Unfortunately every team being promoted is going to come up against inflated prices as those selling know promotion to the Prem means mega millions. If we wanted to compete with the big boys how far would £120 million go ? You'd be lucky to get two players and Town needed a dozen and seeing as you are restricted by how many Senior players, loans etc you can have we would not have got the full amount of players needed. Added to this is the fact that not many believed we would go from Division One to the Premier League in two seasons. Just like horse racing not many go from Handicaps to Group One races and it's obvious to all that the Premier League is now Group One where even clubs spending many millions more than Town struggle to put two wins together. | | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 12:40 - Feb 3 with 1067 views | itfcsuth |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 08:45 - Feb 3 by itfcjoe |
Easy to say, but what was the alternative? What players at similar sized clubs have we missed out on that we should have signed instead?
The difference is when top Champ players go to teams like Bournemouth, Brighton or Brentford - they go into settled PL quality squads and are drip fed game time. We haven't had that option to do that so they are having to learn along the way.
The squad is in a fantastic position for where we are next year, all these players will have all this added experience and will be much better off for it.
GK and CM are the 2 areas where we've got it wrong - Muric and Phillips the 2 errors that have seriously cost us [Post edited 3 Feb 8:55]
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Have a broader recruitment process than the best Championship players, at vastly inflated prices, would have been a better alternative.
We knew the gap was huge, it’s no secret and previous teams promoted teams have shown this.
We had to recruit better quality, and that comes down to due diligence.
To replace a good Championship team, with another good Championship team, to end up back in the Championship, for the cost of £150m does not appeal to me as a smart strategy. | | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 12:44 - Feb 3 with 1057 views | Smoresy |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 21:07 - Feb 1 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Our recruitment strategy is as dated as the title 'data dashboard'.
We seem to just buy well known young players, at very, very full prices. |
Fullest of full for sure. We must have been the only club on earth willing to spend £8m on Ogbene, £10m on Szmodics, £20m on Hutchinson, £20m on Philogene.
A couple of those may still exceed their transfer cost in time though. My main worry is if we can keep hold onto these players in the Championship, to avoid "cashing in" significant losses in the summer. | | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 13:01 - Feb 3 with 1016 views | itfcjoe |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 12:40 - Feb 3 by itfcsuth |
Have a broader recruitment process than the best Championship players, at vastly inflated prices, would have been a better alternative.
We knew the gap was huge, it’s no secret and previous teams promoted teams have shown this.
We had to recruit better quality, and that comes down to due diligence.
To replace a good Championship team, with another good Championship team, to end up back in the Championship, for the cost of £150m does not appeal to me as a smart strategy. |
Leicester and Soton have had a decade in the PL, are miles ahead of us off the pitch and who of their signings would you swap for ours?
The point basically boils down to "we should have signed better players" with no allowance for the situation we were actually in and 20/20 hindsight | |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 13:14 - Feb 3 with 973 views | Ryorry |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 08:54 - Feb 3 by itfcjoe |
Harness or Jackson couldn't even get into the team to start games when we are inL1, they are currently playing for a bottom 3 Championship side - they would be hopeless in the Premier League |
I didn’t say we should have kept them, I said that at least they’d have run at Soton for the last 20 minutes yesterday, therefore we could have done with them at that point in that game. | |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 16:05 - Feb 3 with 927 views | itfcsuth |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 13:01 - Feb 3 by itfcjoe |
Leicester and Soton have had a decade in the PL, are miles ahead of us off the pitch and who of their signings would you swap for ours?
The point basically boils down to "we should have signed better players" with no allowance for the situation we were actually in and 20/20 hindsight |
I wouldn't have taken much from Southampton or Leicester, maybe the odd one - Ramsdale, Buonanotte but nothing really, hence the reason they are down the bottom with us.
This whole teams are ahead of us, we are bottom of the pack is great, but a little bit of a get out excuse.
We've spent £150m, which isn't pocket change, and it is our own fault that we haven't bought in the correct quality of player, or really looked further afield than the Championship.
We recruited poorly, it has significantly cost us, and there does need to eb accountability for that, because getting to the PL is a difficult task, getting out of the Championship is a difficult task - it feels like a opportunity wasted - that is my disappointment. | | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 16:11 - Feb 3 with 912 views | itfcjoe |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 16:05 - Feb 3 by itfcsuth |
I wouldn't have taken much from Southampton or Leicester, maybe the odd one - Ramsdale, Buonanotte but nothing really, hence the reason they are down the bottom with us.
This whole teams are ahead of us, we are bottom of the pack is great, but a little bit of a get out excuse.
We've spent £150m, which isn't pocket change, and it is our own fault that we haven't bought in the correct quality of player, or really looked further afield than the Championship.
We recruited poorly, it has significantly cost us, and there does need to eb accountability for that, because getting to the PL is a difficult task, getting out of the Championship is a difficult task - it feels like a opportunity wasted - that is my disappointment. |
So you wouldn't really have taken any of the players who were available to newly promoted clubs, but would have found some other better ones somewhere in the world instead? | |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 16:22 - Feb 3 with 853 views | hype313 |
A PL regular who is decent would cost £50m plus £80-100k a week in wages, we're not fishing in the same waters as other established PL clubs, so we're having to go a rung down.
I think sometimes we need a dose of reality to where we are, you can question the signings by all means but we're after a specific type of player.
I'm not sure a bunch of mercenaries would've been the answer either.
As for Harness and KJ, lovely guys, but could barely get into the team in L1. |  |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 16:31 - Feb 3 with 808 views | tractordownsouth |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 21:02 - Feb 1 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
I agree the recruitment has been poor, it seemed illogical to bring in that many Championship players for that sort of money. We’d finished streets ahead of Hull, Sunderland, Blackburn and co. and that’s where we recruited from alongside Burnley, who were absolutely dire in the Premier League. We could have kept what we had and got away with bringing in just Delap, Hutch and Cajuste and we’d probably have the same amount of points we have now. |
Where else were we going to recruit from? It's pretty standard for newly promoted teams to pick up the star players from the Championship and relegated PL clubs. We were never going to attract regular starters from elsewhere in the PL.
We didn't really look abroad but that's more of a consequence of being promoted to this level before being able to establish those scouting networks, because until the visa rules changed in 2023 they would have been pointless. |  |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 18:27 - Feb 3 with 742 views | You_Bloo_Right |
It was all downhill for them after Resurrection Shuffle. |  |
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| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 18:31 - Feb 3 with 734 views | itfctilidie |
Scouts can't be paid nowhere near as much as players. In hindsight we would have been better off using the phillips money to chuck at a couple of scouts doubling/trebling their wage. This would have opened up some markets for us and we could have earned the spent money back in transfer fees (i.e signing a 12m winger from Germany rather than Jack Clarke for example). Hindsight is a lovely thing though. |  | | |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 18:46 - Feb 3 with 713 views | Horsham |
| Ashton, Werhun & Probert on 21:20 - Feb 1 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I think they'll be good in the Champ, but I'm not sure there's much profit on the prices we've paid, aside from Delap (buyback speculation aside).
I guess we suffer from a lack of overseas scouting knowledge. |
There doesn’t have to be profit on what we’ve bought if it either keeps us up or it gets us up next season. They’ll have more than paid for themselves in either of those scenarios. |  | | |
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