| Europe snubbed 14:31 - Feb 17 with 3033 views | blueasfook |
Sergei Lavrov says Europe will have "no role" in Ukraine peace negotiations. I assume the Americans are ok with that. Well and truly hung out to dry by Trump. We should start cosying up to China to piss him off. |  |
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| Europe snubbed on 14:35 - Feb 17 with 2674 views | homer_123 |
Moreover, nor do Ukraine. |  |
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| Europe snubbed on 14:36 - Feb 17 with 2661 views | blueasfook |
| Europe snubbed on 14:35 - Feb 17 by homer_123 |
Moreover, nor do Ukraine. |
Yep, but unlikely that Ukraine will agree to any deal unilaterally done between US and Russia | |
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| Europe snubbed on 14:37 - Feb 17 with 2651 views | mutters |
It's clear that we all need to leave these negotiations to the big boys and we can all sit at the kiddies tables and eat chicken nuggets
The arrogance of both the US and Russia here is particularly galling |  |
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| Europe snubbed on 14:38 - Feb 17 with 2634 views | Churchman |
See BlueJacko’s thread for a view on that.
Ukraine is only to be in the room to pour the drinks. He’ll certainly have no say whatsoever on anything and will probably even have to ask permission to go to the toilet.
Just musing, but I wonder if the deal has already been done and this is just window dressing? |  | | |
| Europe snubbed on 14:40 - Feb 17 with 2603 views | iamatractorboy |
Those photos that Putin has of [REDACTED] being [REDACTED] on by [REDACTED] must be really good. |  | | |
| Europe snubbed on 14:43 - Feb 17 with 2578 views | NthQldITFC |
But neither Ukraine nor some sort of nascent European Defence Alliance is under any obligation to take any notice of what a couple of pariah states might think they are 'deciding'. Similarly with a similar Axis in the ME. |  |
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| Europe snubbed on 14:43 - Feb 17 with 2575 views | blueasfook |
| Europe snubbed on 14:38 - Feb 17 by Churchman |
See BlueJacko’s thread for a view on that.
Ukraine is only to be in the room to pour the drinks. He’ll certainly have no say whatsoever on anything and will probably even have to ask permission to go to the toilet.
Just musing, but I wonder if the deal has already been done and this is just window dressing? |
Quite possibly. I wouldn't bet against "Art of the Deal" Trump giving half of Ukraine away in exchange for some cheap fossil fuels. | |
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| Europe snubbed on 14:50 - Feb 17 with 2503 views | tonybied |
One thing is for sure, the world is becoming an a much more unstable place again. It's been relatively stable since the end of the Cold War so most of those under 45-50 don't have much memory of the world being on edge.
Being 45 myself I don't really have comprehension for that period of history (I was born into it but was too young and ignorant to worry about it) but the way allegiances seem to be falling by the wayside or changing worries me quite a lot, I feel we may not be too far off another war that engulfs much of the larger powers of the world.
Maybe I'm just being dragged in by the sensationalist 24/7 news-driven world we seem to live in nowadays but everything that's happened over the last few years has me anxious, especially now with Trumps bully-boy antics being added to the mix. [Post edited 17 Feb 14:51]
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| Europe snubbed on 14:51 - Feb 17 with 2490 views | JakeITFC |
| Europe snubbed on 14:50 - Feb 17 by tonybied |
One thing is for sure, the world is becoming an a much more unstable place again. It's been relatively stable since the end of the Cold War so most of those under 45-50 don't have much memory of the world being on edge.
Being 45 myself I don't really have comprehension for that period of history (I was born into it but was too young and ignorant to worry about it) but the way allegiances seem to be falling by the wayside or changing worries me quite a lot, I feel we may not be too far off another war that engulfs much of the larger powers of the world.
Maybe I'm just being dragged in by the sensationalist 24/7 news-driven world we seem to live in nowadays but everything that's happened over the last few years has me anxious, especially now with Trumps bully-boy antics being added to the mix. [Post edited 17 Feb 14:51]
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The bad news is that Russia, Israel and USA are all on the same side, and it is increasingly clear that it isn't ours. |  | | |
| Europe snubbed on 14:57 - Feb 17 with 2429 views | blueasfook |
| Europe snubbed on 14:50 - Feb 17 by tonybied |
One thing is for sure, the world is becoming an a much more unstable place again. It's been relatively stable since the end of the Cold War so most of those under 45-50 don't have much memory of the world being on edge.
Being 45 myself I don't really have comprehension for that period of history (I was born into it but was too young and ignorant to worry about it) but the way allegiances seem to be falling by the wayside or changing worries me quite a lot, I feel we may not be too far off another war that engulfs much of the larger powers of the world.
Maybe I'm just being dragged in by the sensationalist 24/7 news-driven world we seem to live in nowadays but everything that's happened over the last few years has me anxious, especially now with Trumps bully-boy antics being added to the mix. [Post edited 17 Feb 14:51]
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I think a uk defence chief recently said he sees the world now in a pre-war period rather than post war as we were for the second half of the 20th century. US/China/Russia/Middle East/North Korea so many potential tricky situations that could majorly kick off | |
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| Europe snubbed on 15:03 - Feb 17 with 2394 views | Horsham |
Have come to the conclusion that everything has been pretty well negotiated already between Russia and its bitch in Washington. |  | | |
| Europe snubbed on 15:35 - Feb 17 with 2286 views | SaffronWaldenBlues |
He wasn't much cop at Spurs tho. |  |
| An East Anglian Town overtaken by Londoners |
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| Europe snubbed on 15:40 - Feb 17 with 2254 views | Plums |
We should (all of Europe) start to demand US based businesses such as Amazon and Starbucks that operate here on a near FOC basis start paying tax so we can pay for our defence.
We need to start talking the Angry Orange's language. [Post edited 17 Feb 15:40]
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| Europe snubbed on 16:36 - Feb 17 with 2114 views | bsw72 |
The only positive to grasp for is the fact it may bring some of the European powers closer together again after all the vitriol of the last 10 years . . . |  | | |
| Europe snubbed on 16:49 - Feb 17 with 2056 views | WeWereZombies |
| Europe snubbed on 16:36 - Feb 17 by bsw72 |
The only positive to grasp for is the fact it may bring some of the European powers closer together again after all the vitriol of the last 10 years . . . |
Indeed, I think that has happened to some extent in the last week. And it would have a good feeling about it if only the prospects were not so grim.
As for the OP, it's just Lavrov being Lavrov, he's been full of these cheap shots for years. |  |
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| Europe snubbed on 18:23 - Feb 17 with 1868 views | Guthrum |
I read it a bit differently to that. More him saying "there is no point Europe being there if they just want the war to continue" - i.e. are unprepared to hand Russia victory on a plate. |  |
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| Europe snubbed on 18:33 - Feb 17 with 1832 views | blueasfook |
| Europe snubbed on 18:23 - Feb 17 by Guthrum |
I read it a bit differently to that. More him saying "there is no point Europe being there if they just want the war to continue" - i.e. are unprepared to hand Russia victory on a plate. |
You may be right. Easier to pull the wool over Trump's eyes. European leaders won't be so easily conned, and will want far more for Ukraine from any deal. | |
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| Europe snubbed on 19:47 - Feb 17 with 1634 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Europe snubbed on 16:49 - Feb 17 by WeWereZombies |
Indeed, I think that has happened to some extent in the last week. And it would have a good feeling about it if only the prospects were not so grim.
As for the OP, it's just Lavrov being Lavrov, he's been full of these cheap shots for years. |
You spelled full of sh1t, incorrectly. |  | | |
| Europe snubbed on 21:25 - Feb 17 with 1425 views | LeoMuff |
Lavrov is quite the troll really, but I’m pretty sure the USA and Russia would love that. However I can’t see Ukraine agreeing to any fait accompli as they will be shafted.
It’s tricky as without the USA Ukraine will lose, Trump just wants it over and to stop payments. |  |
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| Europe snubbed on 21:37 - Feb 17 with 1387 views | DJR |
It is paywalled, and I can't vouch for it, but this suggests Trump is seeking to scr8w Ukraine more than militarily and territorially.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan
Revealed: Trump’s confidential plan to put Ukraine in a stranglehold
Panic in Kyiv as US president demands higher share of GDP than Germany’s First World War reparations
Donald Trump’s demand for a $500bn (£400bn) “payback” from Ukraine goes far beyond US control over the country’s critical minerals... |  | | |
| Europe snubbed on 21:56 - Feb 17 with 1287 views | The_Major |
| Europe snubbed on 21:37 - Feb 17 by DJR |
It is paywalled, and I can't vouch for it, but this suggests Trump is seeking to scr8w Ukraine more than militarily and territorially.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan
Revealed: Trump’s confidential plan to put Ukraine in a stranglehold
Panic in Kyiv as US president demands higher share of GDP than Germany’s First World War reparations
Donald Trump’s demand for a $500bn (£400bn) “payback” from Ukraine goes far beyond US control over the country’s critical minerals... |
Saw mentioned as well that Ukraine has massive lithium deposits. Which no doubt would be used in a Tesla battery. |  | | |
| Europe snubbed on 22:01 - Feb 17 with 1261 views | Churchman |
| Europe snubbed on 21:37 - Feb 17 by DJR |
It is paywalled, and I can't vouch for it, but this suggests Trump is seeking to scr8w Ukraine more than militarily and territorially.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/02/17/revealed-trump-confidential-plan
Revealed: Trump’s confidential plan to put Ukraine in a stranglehold
Panic in Kyiv as US president demands higher share of GDP than Germany’s First World War reparations
Donald Trump’s demand for a $500bn (£400bn) “payback” from Ukraine goes far beyond US control over the country’s critical minerals... |
Given Trumps agreement is with Putin they will make the decisions if they’ve not already been made. If the tea boy objects it’ll be all the worse for his former country.
Russia gets the territory and a turning of a blind eye to future territorial demands (the rump of Ukraine, Baltics Poland and Finland), US gets the mineral rights and payment. As deals go, brilliant for America, dream fulfilled for Putin. If you were them, isn’t that what you’d go for? | | | |
| Europe snubbed on 23:19 - Feb 17 with 1148 views | WeWereZombies |
| Europe snubbed on 21:56 - Feb 17 by The_Major |
Saw mentioned as well that Ukraine has massive lithium deposits. Which no doubt would be used in a Tesla battery. |
But this could be a bargaining chip (sorry, sorry) for Ukraine. If Musk wants access to that lithium without risking countless booby traps then he is going to have to put some support behind the victims in this war. | |
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| Europe snubbed on 23:21 - Feb 17 with 1143 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Europe snubbed on 15:03 - Feb 17 by Horsham |
Have come to the conclusion that everything has been pretty well negotiated already between Russia and its bitch in Washington. |
Trump thinks he can annex Greenland, Gaza and Canada. Is it any surprise that he thinks he can annex Ukraine and split it between himself and Putin too?
The reality is that he cannot do any of these things. The question is more does he actually think he can do any of them or what is his actual gameplay in claiming he will? It's just very odd hearing a western world leader spout off rubbish all the time. |  |
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| Europe snubbed on 00:18 - Feb 18 with 1040 views | Churchman |
| Europe snubbed on 23:21 - Feb 17 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Trump thinks he can annex Greenland, Gaza and Canada. Is it any surprise that he thinks he can annex Ukraine and split it between himself and Putin too?
The reality is that he cannot do any of these things. The question is more does he actually think he can do any of them or what is his actual gameplay in claiming he will? It's just very odd hearing a western world leader spout off rubbish all the time. |
Why can’t he do these things? In trumpworld where the strong become best buddies, why not carve up spheres of influence? As long as China is at the table, who is to stop them?
Just think of Gillray’s Plum Pudding in Danger with Napoleon and Pitt carving up the world.human nature, power, greed and control doesn’t change. | | | |
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