| The difference between now and any time in the past 08:53 - Feb 23 with 2053 views | CopfordBlue |
Is that now it seems near-impossible to build a team in the championship that’s capable of holding their own in the Premier League. The pockets of the established PL clubs are now so deep that they take the players who are good enough from the relegated clubs and the rest of them get bought by the promoted clubs.
There were 3 loanees in our starting 11 yesterday. The player most likely to have made a difference (Enciso) is another one. Despite spending what for us was a huge amount of money on transfers in the summer, to add to a team who got almost 100 points the season before, much of the proven ability/experience we required needed to be borrowed from other clubs.
If we go down ,the 3 or 4 who have proven themselves to be premier league quality will leave in the summer either to become squad players for the established clubs or the big signings of the promoted teams. Even 5 years ago clubs could often hold these players for a season but that just doesn’t seem to happen anymore. Can anyone see Delap or Omari in a Town shirt if we’re back in the Championship next season?
The team we put out yesterday would beat any of the current top 6 in the Championship. Leeds, Sheffield United , Burnley or whoever comes up won’t be able to compete without changing 8 or 9 of their starting 11. As we’ve seen this league is so tough you don’t get time to develop as a team during a premier league season.
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:14 - Feb 23 with 1586 views | homer_123 |
Speaking to an ardent Leeds fan. He's of the opinion they'll come straight back down. |  |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:17 - Feb 23 with 1557 views | Herbivore |
It's telling that the bottom three are starting to get cut adrift now and all of us are newly promoted. Then you look at last season, same thing. And then you look at the Championship and see two relegated sides in the top 3, last season they were three of the top four. The gap is huge and getting bigger. |  |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:19 - Feb 23 with 1540 views | CopfordBlue |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:14 - Feb 23 by homer_123 |
Speaking to an ardent Leeds fan. He's of the opinion they'll come straight back down. |
Both Burnley fans I know feel the same way . They don’t like the football under Parker either so they’re not even enjoying a successful season (although I’ve not spoken to him since their win yesterday). | |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:20 - Feb 23 with 1534 views | ITFCBlues |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:17 - Feb 23 by Herbivore |
It's telling that the bottom three are starting to get cut adrift now and all of us are newly promoted. Then you look at last season, same thing. And then you look at the Championship and see two relegated sides in the top 3, last season they were three of the top four. The gap is huge and getting bigger. |
And the third side in the top 3 is Leeds who got relegated the year before. Parachute payments give you a huge advantage. Not to mention the 100m odd you spend on players.
Despite how poor people believe our recruitment has been, we will still be looking at selling Delap and probably Davis for 60m which buys you 6 or 7 top class championship players. |  |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:22 - Feb 23 with 1516 views | ITFC_Forever |
It’s part of the glaringly obvious chasm we’ve seen between the Prem and the Champ first hand this season.
Premier League greed has effectively given them what they want - a closed shop in all but name. |  |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:22 - Feb 23 with 1514 views | BloomBlue |
Building a squad gradually in the Champ can help. I must check with my Brentford supporting mate, but it was mentioned on the wireless yesterday that Brentford still have 5 players in the team who played for them in the championship. Basically they were purchased on the basis of being first teamers in the PL if they did win promotion meaning they didn't need to buy a full PL team.
Obviously us coming from L1 to Champ to PL is adding to that problem. |  | | |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:24 - Feb 23 with 1499 views | Churchman |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:14 - Feb 23 by homer_123 |
Speaking to an ardent Leeds fan. He's of the opinion they'll come straight back down. |
My Leeds following mate says exactly the same |  | | |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:25 - Feb 23 with 1492 views | Blue_Heath |
What 3 or 4 are premier league quality?
I'd say Delap who is also still very raw but great potential.
Enciso maybe.
Remind me how goals/assists Phillips and Cajuste have got again please? | | | |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:30 - Feb 23 with 1446 views | tractorboy1978 |
As ever, McKenna is the key cog. I think Delap goes whatever league we are in. Beyond that, i think it is up for debate. But assuming McKenna stays, there won't be anyone agitating for a move. Omari seems to have really found his feet now though which could actually be quite annoying for us come the summer. | | | |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:31 - Feb 23 with 1433 views | Benters |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:17 - Feb 23 by Herbivore |
It's telling that the bottom three are starting to get cut adrift now and all of us are newly promoted. Then you look at last season, same thing. And then you look at the Championship and see two relegated sides in the top 3, last season they were three of the top four. The gap is huge and getting bigger. |
Something else we agree on ✅ |  |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:32 - Feb 23 with 1424 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:30 - Feb 23 by tractorboy1978 |
As ever, McKenna is the key cog. I think Delap goes whatever league we are in. Beyond that, i think it is up for debate. But assuming McKenna stays, there won't be anyone agitating for a move. Omari seems to have really found his feet now though which could actually be quite annoying for us come the summer. |
Think with philogene signing. We've covered ourselves if hutchinson does go. Plus we would make a profit on hutch if a club did come in for him.
Philogene reminds me of hutch in his first 6 months here. |  |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:34 - Feb 23 with 1404 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:30 - Feb 23 by tractorboy1978 |
As ever, McKenna is the key cog. I think Delap goes whatever league we are in. Beyond that, i think it is up for debate. But assuming McKenna stays, there won't be anyone agitating for a move. Omari seems to have really found his feet now though which could actually be quite annoying for us come the summer. |
He’s been inconsistent but Omari has had some pretty exceptional games. Spurs away, Man Utd, Chelsea, and scored 3 brilliant goals. Would guess he’ll go to a Brentford type for 30m or whatever and gently bed in. To play the amount of games he’s played, in that role, at his age, would presumably have developed him loads. | | | |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:57 - Feb 23 with 1324 views | CopfordBlue |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:25 - Feb 23 by Blue_Heath |
What 3 or 4 are premier league quality?
I'd say Delap who is also still very raw but great potential.
Enciso maybe.
Remind me how goals/assists Phillips and Cajuste have got again please? |
Delap and Omari clearly are. A few others - Leif, Greaves, O’Shea - have maybe done enough for a newly promoted team to make a bid. They’re all a lot better as a result of a season of PL experience.
I’m not saying Philips and Cajuste are good enough as a pairing at this level but they’re better equipped than Morsy, Luongo, Taylor, Humphreys or the players we had last season in central midfield. [Post edited 23 Feb 9:59]
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:45 - Feb 23 with 1216 views | cressi |
We went a bit Forest bought a lot of players much of a mucher. If McKenna A team played his B team nothing in it should have got 6 good players instead of 12 average ones. | | | |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:49 - Feb 23 with 1189 views | Herbivore |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:45 - Feb 23 by cressi |
We went a bit Forest bought a lot of players much of a mucher. If McKenna A team played his B team nothing in it should have got 6 good players instead of 12 average ones. |
That's easier said than done. Six proven quality Prem players would have cost a fortune in wages as well as fees and those kinds of players would have better options open to them than Ipswich. | |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:53 - Feb 23 with 1170 views | ITFCBlues |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:45 - Feb 23 by cressi |
We went a bit Forest bought a lot of players much of a mucher. If McKenna A team played his B team nothing in it should have got 6 good players instead of 12 average ones. |
6 good PL players, costing 30-40m each and then kept Jackson, AAH and Harness as squad options perhaps? | |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:54 - Feb 23 with 1164 views | Dubtractor |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:49 - Feb 23 by Herbivore |
That's easier said than done. Six proven quality Prem players would have cost a fortune in wages as well as fees and those kinds of players would have better options open to them than Ipswich. |
That's where that argument falls down, isn't it?
We'd all like to have signed a better quality of 'premier league ready' player, but those players will have had better options than a relegation favourite.
And we DID sign a number of players with premier league experience, but it's still not been good enough.
I agree fully with the OP. Doesn't make me any less frustrated with some of our performances, but you only need to look at the bottom 3 this season and last to see that there is a real issue with the gap in quality between the 2 divisions. |  |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:55 - Feb 23 with 1156 views | pointofblue |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:20 - Feb 23 by ITFCBlues |
And the third side in the top 3 is Leeds who got relegated the year before. Parachute payments give you a huge advantage. Not to mention the 100m odd you spend on players.
Despite how poor people believe our recruitment has been, we will still be looking at selling Delap and probably Davis for 60m which buys you 6 or 7 top class championship players. |
I wouldn't be surprised if Davis stays. He hasn't been that impressive this year, and I'm not sure who would take a gamble on him. Maybe one of the promoted three, taking the same approach as us?
On current performances I think we'll sell Delap and Hutchinson for a profit. Teams will be interested in O'Shea but not sure if any of them will be interested in paying what we did for him. Can't see who else would be deemed good enough for a PL squad. | |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:57 - Feb 23 with 1140 views | Blue_Heath |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 09:57 - Feb 23 by CopfordBlue |
Delap and Omari clearly are. A few others - Leif, Greaves, O’Shea - have maybe done enough for a newly promoted team to make a bid. They’re all a lot better as a result of a season of PL experience.
I’m not saying Philips and Cajuste are good enough as a pairing at this level but they’re better equipped than Morsy, Luongo, Taylor, Humphreys or the players we had last season in central midfield. [Post edited 23 Feb 9:59]
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Leif and Greaves are not yet and O'Shea now has back to back releagtions, yes I know he's not the only one to blame but the fact we are bottom 3 shows we are not premier league quality. Looking at stats only Delap is. | | | |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:59 - Feb 23 with 1127 views | Dubtractor |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:55 - Feb 23 by pointofblue |
I wouldn't be surprised if Davis stays. He hasn't been that impressive this year, and I'm not sure who would take a gamble on him. Maybe one of the promoted three, taking the same approach as us?
On current performances I think we'll sell Delap and Hutchinson for a profit. Teams will be interested in O'Shea but not sure if any of them will be interested in paying what we did for him. Can't see who else would be deemed good enough for a PL squad. |
"Can't see who else would be deemed good enough for a PL squad."
Just for reference, Burnley had a very similar season to us last year, and still sold over £100m of players in the Summer. | |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 11:01 - Feb 23 with 1111 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:45 - Feb 23 by cressi |
We went a bit Forest bought a lot of players much of a mucher. If McKenna A team played his B team nothing in it should have got 6 good players instead of 12 average ones. |
Why didn't McKenna think of that. He must be kicking himself. The point is the 'definite' if there ever is such a thing, 'good' players wouldn't need to come to a team likely to struggle and head straight down, so what ever we then choose is a gamble, our gambles didn't fully pay off, but could and do have potential down the line. Other more expensive experienced gambles still likely to fail, but wouldn't leave us much potential down the line either.
It must be very hard to juggle available players with what you need, do we add a Philogene who we know wants to come and are aware of his qualities u21 international etc. or do we think, right we need a centre mid battler or whatever and go down to the list and end up with an unknown or even a known lesser player for the sake of it.
Again, I'm not saying we did well in transfers or were perfect, I'm just aware that the reality is ridiculously difficult and it's not necessarily anything we've done wrong overall, just that the gambles we had to take didn't pay off entirely, which was to be expected. |  | | |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 11:03 - Feb 23 with 1083 views | Herbivore |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:54 - Feb 23 by Dubtractor |
That's where that argument falls down, isn't it?
We'd all like to have signed a better quality of 'premier league ready' player, but those players will have had better options than a relegation favourite.
And we DID sign a number of players with premier league experience, but it's still not been good enough.
I agree fully with the OP. Doesn't make me any less frustrated with some of our performances, but you only need to look at the bottom 3 this season and last to see that there is a real issue with the gap in quality between the 2 divisions. |
I'd also argue the players we've signed with Prem experience haven't really looked any better than those with limited experience at this level.
We needed to strengthen but in doing that we've lost some of the harmony and fluidity of our play, we've had to bed in a huge number of players to give us the technical and athletic qualities needed to compete at this level but that's come at a cost. We've also not been helped by injuries, be interested to see how the injury league table is looking but we were second behind Brighton early doors and our situation hasn't exactly improved on that front.
All of those things provide some mitigation for why it's been such a struggle, but ultimately it comes down to the financial doping of the Prem making it a closed shop. When Bournemouth have got players like Justin Kluivert playing for them and Fulham can sign someone like Smith-Rowe and not always play him every week, it shows what we're up against. You can't build a side to genuinely compete in one or two windows but you won't get more than that as you'll be relegated by the next transfer window.
Saints and Leicester both have way more Prem experience than us in their squads and prior to last season had benefited from Prem finances for years. They aren't competing any more effectively than we are. It's massively depressing. But if we go down, which looks very likely, we'll be miles better than the rest of the Championship and will probably come back up. Then we'll probably go down again. The 17 teams who have all now had at least 2.5 seasons in the Prem are only going to get stronger and sides coming up just won't be able to survive unless one of those sides implodes somehow. Wolves looked like they might but they've got too much quality and look like pulling themselves out of it. | |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 11:04 - Feb 23 with 1076 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:59 - Feb 23 by Dubtractor |
"Can't see who else would be deemed good enough for a PL squad."
Just for reference, Burnley had a very similar season to us last year, and still sold over £100m of players in the Summer. |
2 players to prem sides.
2 players to ipswich
The others to bundesliga. And other leagues.
Similar to what ours will be really
Delap. Maybe hutch. Oshea? But that's it really. | |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 11:06 - Feb 23 with 1063 views | pointofblue |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 10:59 - Feb 23 by Dubtractor |
"Can't see who else would be deemed good enough for a PL squad."
Just for reference, Burnley had a very similar season to us last year, and still sold over £100m of players in the Summer. |
£50m of that was for two players in Odobert and Berge - see Hutchinson and Delap. A further £20m from us for Muric and O'Shea. Not sure who the equivalent is but we certainly won't be getting £8m for Palmer, Muric or Walton. Then they flogged a few players to the foreign market; I can't see that being the case for us. | |
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| The difference between now and any time in the past on 11:13 - Feb 23 with 1007 views | Axeldalai_lama |
| The difference between now and any time in the past on 11:06 - Feb 23 by pointofblue |
£50m of that was for two players in Odobert and Berge - see Hutchinson and Delap. A further £20m from us for Muric and O'Shea. Not sure who the equivalent is but we certainly won't be getting £8m for Palmer, Muric or Walton. Then they flogged a few players to the foreign market; I can't see that being the case for us. |
Do we need to? It's not a target to hit! We don't need to make £100 million in sales, isn't it better we don't? We *could* sell o Shea Greaves Davis Philogene even szmodic, Clarke, etc etc, for less than we paid but still, I dunno £10m a piece. The 'failed' signings premier league wise will be fine in the championship, that's the point isn't it? Inevitably sell a few and keep the rest and push on and up, hopefully. | | | |
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