| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! 08:53 - Feb 24 with 7503 views | Asa |
Absolutely love Kieran. He will forever be a club legend. I also wouldn't have wanted the guy replaced if we'd have gone down with Southampton's record this season. Absolutely he's earned his chance and deserves loyalty and I hope he'll be here for years to come because I believe he's going to go right to the very top in the long term.
However ...
We went into this season off the back of a joke of a League One season. Almost 100 points and goals and we absolutely dominated every match we played pretty much. We were insane. McKenna was a genius.
We went into this season off the back of a joke of a Championship season. Almost 100 points and goals and in many games we were second best in terms of possession and chances. But the genius of McKenna again got the team spirit sky high, patterns of play were brilliant, every knew their jobs and he got an extra 10-20 % out of every player as we stormed our way to promotion again.
This year was going to be different. We either went into the season with some players we loved that were, through no fault of their own, not going to cut it in the top flight, or we make wholesale changes to bring in quality and lose a bit of the soul and spirit initially and the new players have to get up to speed with the system.
We were always going to get a few hammerings. We were always going to be down there. The gulf is huge. We were always going to have signings that didn't work out.
However, I honestly expected that, whilst Kieran isn't going to come in as a young coach and consistently out-think Emery, Guardiola, Slot and Arteta from day one, that McKenna's ability alone would be worth 10 points over this season.
That a 20 or 25 point haul would be 30 or 35 because of his tactically ability and that we'd spot weaknesses, stop the opponents exploiting ours and I've not really seen that from him this season. Of course it's bloody difficult all things considered.
Spurs were pretty poor and aimless earlier in the season and we were great. Tactically you could say we were good. Chelsea owed a lot to Delap being out of this world, albeit the tactically side wasn't bad.
So in summary, Kieran is a god, I love him, I want him to stay, he will learn and not having a pop at all, but I thought that no matter what the squad, players, season looked like, him alone might eek out a little bit more than what we've seen from the squad. That's been probably the biggest disappointment for me.
He's not as ready for this level as I thought he'd be, which is fine. He will be. But I did think we'd be sat here in February talking about 5 or 6 McKenna masterclasses that had totally outwitted opposition managers on the way to big wins, rather than what you could say has been 1 or maybe 2.
He's probably where he should be in his coaching journey and maybe I just expect too much of him based on the last two seasons but I do think he's on his way to being a phenomenal manager and thought he'd (possibly unfairly so) be a little bit closer to that at this stage than perhaps the reality suggests. [Post edited 24 Feb 9:20]
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:02 - Feb 24 with 4731 views | PioneerBlue |
I hadn’t appreciated how far ahead teams had gotten themselves. I knew it was going to be difficult and some players would make it and others wouldnt. I knew it would be a challenge to not be relegated but it’s surprised me how near but far we are from being able to compete game to game given we’ve spent a massive chunk of change to not quite compete successfully.
Back to your OP.
There will of course be mistakes and things we could or should have done differently but football is alchemy not only logic. We’ve had a lot of injuries in the wrong positions at the wrong time. It’s likely we didn’t quite get the balance right in target positions and acquisitions in Aug and Jan, it’s likely we didn’t quite get the structure, set up for fast transition, and in game tactics right in many games.
We can unpick all that in May! We still need the team to go and finish the season with as much professional pride and courage as they can, lots for the club to play for although it might not be a place in the PL. [Post edited 24 Feb 9:15]
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:05 - Feb 24 with 4696 views | JakeITFC |
I think you just had unfair expectations to be quite honest. We are going to get relegated but I honestly think we have presented ourselves as a competitive Premier League team from the get go and have maybe had six or seven games where we’ve genuinely been outclassed.
The whole club will be better for this experience. |  | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:09 - Feb 24 with 4644 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
You might have a point, but honestly I think the real reason is the gulf is so huge. And it's even bigger for us because we came straight through the Champ which means several players (before Jan) were starters in League 1... AND we don't have any parachute payments to address matters like the other promoted teams have.
So, given the tools he has to work with, I'm not sure you can say he's not as ready for this level as you thought he'd be, because he's only been tested at this level with these players, restrictions and circumstances. Maybe, say he'd taken the Palace or Brighton jobs, he would have got those extra 10 points due to the players being better. He's not a magician, he can only play the hand he's dealt, and maybe these players just aren't quite up to it even with the genius of McKenna.
But, of course, he is still young and inexperienced, so I suspect it's a bit of both. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:11 - Feb 24 with 4623 views | Funge |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:05 - Feb 24 by JakeITFC |
I think you just had unfair expectations to be quite honest. We are going to get relegated but I honestly think we have presented ourselves as a competitive Premier League team from the get go and have maybe had six or seven games where we’ve genuinely been outclassed.
The whole club will be better for this experience. |
Good post.
Outclassed vs City twice, and Liverpool at Anfield. Spam/ Everton/ Palace we were noticeably 2nd best, too. (Even the Spam/ Everton games, we had moments early on...)
Pretty much every other game we've been competitive in; as mentioned many times before, there's just no room for any error, whatsoever, in this league.
Factor in a few mistakes, Muric having the brain of an egg, and a right-hand side that has been, it seems, injured or sent off all season; here we are.
Fully agree with your last line. [Post edited 24 Feb 9:12]
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:12 - Feb 24 with 4610 views | Herbivore |
Despite our spending, at the start of the season we had the lowest squad value in the league. It was always going to take a lot for us to stay up, including a bit of luck that we've not really had (loads of injuries, poor officiating etc.) and the frustration is that a lot of the time we've looked not far off it but just not quite good enough to turn draws into wins or to get ahead in games when we're on top. We've definitely been punished for mistakes harshly, our xG against is better than 5 or 6 sides but we've conceded 0.39 goals per game more than we should have (that's 10 goals overall) while simultaneously underperforming against our own (admittedly low) xG.
Could McKenna have done more? Impossible to say really. He'll be working 12 hours a day every day to try and keep us competitive but the quality of the league is so ridiculous that it's a huge uphill battle. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:17 - Feb 24 with 4509 views | bobbyramsey |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:09 - Feb 24 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You might have a point, but honestly I think the real reason is the gulf is so huge. And it's even bigger for us because we came straight through the Champ which means several players (before Jan) were starters in League 1... AND we don't have any parachute payments to address matters like the other promoted teams have.
So, given the tools he has to work with, I'm not sure you can say he's not as ready for this level as you thought he'd be, because he's only been tested at this level with these players, restrictions and circumstances. Maybe, say he'd taken the Palace or Brighton jobs, he would have got those extra 10 points due to the players being better. He's not a magician, he can only play the hand he's dealt, and maybe these players just aren't quite up to it even with the genius of McKenna.
But, of course, he is still young and inexperienced, so I suspect it's a bit of both. |
This.
Would KM have been "better" if given "better" players. |  | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:19 - Feb 24 with 4490 views | Asa |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:11 - Feb 24 by Funge |
Good post.
Outclassed vs City twice, and Liverpool at Anfield. Spam/ Everton/ Palace we were noticeably 2nd best, too. (Even the Spam/ Everton games, we had moments early on...)
Pretty much every other game we've been competitive in; as mentioned many times before, there's just no room for any error, whatsoever, in this league.
Factor in a few mistakes, Muric having the brain of an egg, and a right-hand side that has been, it seems, injured or sent off all season; here we are.
Fully agree with your last line. [Post edited 24 Feb 9:12]
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Absolutely.
We've been outclassed in very few. Even Saturday, in a hammering, we could easily have been well in front at the break with a bit of luck or concentration.
We've had a lot of injuries, some shocking goalkeeping displays and are still in touch.
So definitely a lot of merit in all the replies and it's just likely that I underestimated the gulf and believed McKenna alone would make more of a difference turning the games we've competed in into a few more wins. | | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:32 - Feb 24 with 4359 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:05 - Feb 24 by JakeITFC |
I think you just had unfair expectations to be quite honest. We are going to get relegated but I honestly think we have presented ourselves as a competitive Premier League team from the get go and have maybe had six or seven games where we’ve genuinely been outclassed.
The whole club will be better for this experience. |
This.
Think for the most part Mckenna has set us up well, gameplan has been good and you've seen that play out.
Ultimately we just don't have the players to always make these performances count. Whereas, almost every other team in the division have 2 or 3 players who could win a game on their own.
I have pointed this out on a few threads. I think people are overcomplicating why we are where we are. We are in the relegation zone ultimately because our players are just not as good. Which was always going to be the case. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:34 - Feb 24 with 4327 views | bazza |
He’s trying to play top 4 football With championship players, some of which are completely light weight, I agree he’s got bags of credit in the bank, but we should have taken more of a look at Fulham palace wolves Brentford Bournemouth and gone a bit more for the physicality, we are just to lightweight. |  | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:47 - Feb 24 with 4235 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:34 - Feb 24 by bazza |
He’s trying to play top 4 football With championship players, some of which are completely light weight, I agree he’s got bags of credit in the bank, but we should have taken more of a look at Fulham palace wolves Brentford Bournemouth and gone a bit more for the physicality, we are just to lightweight. |
"He’s trying to play top 4 football With championship players"
What does this even mean? What is the top 4 football you speak of. | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:52 - Feb 24 with 4187 views | portmanking |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:47 - Feb 24 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
"He’s trying to play top 4 football With championship players"
What does this even mean? What is the top 4 football you speak of. |
You're right in that most of that post is nonsense - apart from the physicality part. Given McKenna knew the level, I am surprised we didn't go for at least 2-3 bulkier players with more of a presence. At times it almost looks like doping, given how much stronger every established PL players looks compared with ours. | | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:00 - Feb 24 with 4101 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:52 - Feb 24 by portmanking |
You're right in that most of that post is nonsense - apart from the physicality part. Given McKenna knew the level, I am surprised we didn't go for at least 2-3 bulkier players with more of a presence. At times it almost looks like doping, given how much stronger every established PL players looks compared with ours. |
I think it is certainly something we would have benefitted from.
I would expect going forward our scouting networks to continue to improve. The club will learn. I think it is clear that the midfield room will need an overhaul in the summer so interested to see what happens there.
Supposing we went down, I would like to think if we were able to bounce back up, we would be needing less players in that transfer window so could focus on maybe 3/4 who fit this description | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:02 - Feb 24 with 4061 views | Herbivore |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:32 - Feb 24 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
This.
Think for the most part Mckenna has set us up well, gameplan has been good and you've seen that play out.
Ultimately we just don't have the players to always make these performances count. Whereas, almost every other team in the division have 2 or 3 players who could win a game on their own.
I have pointed this out on a few threads. I think people are overcomplicating why we are where we are. We are in the relegation zone ultimately because our players are just not as good. Which was always going to be the case. |
The injury list we've been carrying more or less all season had also meant we've not had the quality on the bench to either change games or see them out in the final 20 minutes. That was something we've had the last two seasons and it won us a lot of points, but for quite a while we had Al Hamidi as our only fit second striker who isn't good enough for this level currently, and often only one decent number 10/wide forward option. The right side has also been decimated in a way we couldn't have predicted, both our wingers out for the season and Tuanzebe out for an extended period with a freak injury. The gods are not smiling on us. | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:05 - Feb 24 with 4044 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:02 - Feb 24 by Herbivore |
The injury list we've been carrying more or less all season had also meant we've not had the quality on the bench to either change games or see them out in the final 20 minutes. That was something we've had the last two seasons and it won us a lot of points, but for quite a while we had Al Hamidi as our only fit second striker who isn't good enough for this level currently, and often only one decent number 10/wide forward option. The right side has also been decimated in a way we couldn't have predicted, both our wingers out for the season and Tuanzebe out for an extended period with a freak injury. The gods are not smiling on us. |
Yep good point.
We signed 2 players for a very specific role and both of them had season ending injuries. How is your luck. | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:07 - Feb 24 with 4006 views | Steve_M |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:12 - Feb 24 by Herbivore |
Despite our spending, at the start of the season we had the lowest squad value in the league. It was always going to take a lot for us to stay up, including a bit of luck that we've not really had (loads of injuries, poor officiating etc.) and the frustration is that a lot of the time we've looked not far off it but just not quite good enough to turn draws into wins or to get ahead in games when we're on top. We've definitely been punished for mistakes harshly, our xG against is better than 5 or 6 sides but we've conceded 0.39 goals per game more than we should have (that's 10 goals overall) while simultaneously underperforming against our own (admittedly low) xG.
Could McKenna have done more? Impossible to say really. He'll be working 12 hours a day every day to try and keep us competitive but the quality of the league is so ridiculous that it's a huge uphill battle. |
"Could McKenna have done more? Impossible to say really. He'll be working 12 hours a day every day to try and keep us competitive but the quality of the league is so ridiculous that it's a huge uphill battle."
I wonder what his thoughts on that are, I suspect he's pretty rigorous in his self-criticism. Certainly, we've not got as much PL experience on the pitch as we would have liked and, whilst Muric isn't the reincarnation of Andy Marshall, big errors have not reapid our investment there.
That said I think you Jake and Funge are right here it's the gap rather than our failings that have been the big problem. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:08 - Feb 24 with 3993 views | Pinewoodblue |
The good news, should we fall short over the next 12 games, is Kieran will be here next year.
I’m sure Kieran has only one thing on his mind and that is 3 points at Old Trafford.
Hopefully he won’t make too many changes, would be nice to have a settled starting eleven. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:16 - Feb 24 with 3929 views | Bluefields |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:11 - Feb 24 by Funge |
Good post.
Outclassed vs City twice, and Liverpool at Anfield. Spam/ Everton/ Palace we were noticeably 2nd best, too. (Even the Spam/ Everton games, we had moments early on...)
Pretty much every other game we've been competitive in; as mentioned many times before, there's just no room for any error, whatsoever, in this league.
Factor in a few mistakes, Muric having the brain of an egg, and a right-hand side that has been, it seems, injured or sent off all season; here we are.
Fully agree with your last line. [Post edited 24 Feb 9:12]
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Got murdered v Newcastle | | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:23 - Feb 24 with 3883 views | jasondozzell |
Understand your reasoning but I just don't agree. I think if you'd ask him himself, he might well say that this season and having us top of the promoted sides, within touching distance of safety after three quarters of season , with some outstanding wins and some excellent performances against top sides is his biggest achievement to date.
It's all about context. |  | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:42 - Feb 24 with 3808 views | Funge |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:16 - Feb 24 by Bluefields |
Got murdered v Newcastle |
Agreed, for some reason I'd purged that from my mind.
Grotty old day, that. | | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:45 - Feb 24 with 3788 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:07 - Feb 24 by Steve_M |
"Could McKenna have done more? Impossible to say really. He'll be working 12 hours a day every day to try and keep us competitive but the quality of the league is so ridiculous that it's a huge uphill battle."
I wonder what his thoughts on that are, I suspect he's pretty rigorous in his self-criticism. Certainly, we've not got as much PL experience on the pitch as we would have liked and, whilst Muric isn't the reincarnation of Andy Marshall, big errors have not reapid our investment there.
That said I think you Jake and Funge are right here it's the gap rather than our failings that have been the big problem. |
The PL experience we did sign has either spent too long injured or not performed.
I am quite surprised at the lack of heat Kalvin Phillips has felt. There is a good argument he has been our worst signing in terms of expectations vs delivery. He was presumably signed as our nailed on starter that was going to play 35+ PL games and turn in a 7/10 performance week in, week out.
Ben Johnson was signed on a big contract presumably as our first choice RB, but McKenna seemed to work out within about 5 minutes he wasn't up to it and it is only really injuries to Ogbene and Burns that mean he's even getting minutes. | | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:45 - Feb 24 with 3772 views | SitfcB |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:05 - Feb 24 by JakeITFC |
I think you just had unfair expectations to be quite honest. We are going to get relegated but I honestly think we have presented ourselves as a competitive Premier League team from the get go and have maybe had six or seven games where we’ve genuinely been outclassed.
The whole club will be better for this experience. |
Agreed.
In reality we should be rock bottom and performing worse than Southampton. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:51 - Feb 24 with 3743 views | LankHenners |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:32 - Feb 24 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
This.
Think for the most part Mckenna has set us up well, gameplan has been good and you've seen that play out.
Ultimately we just don't have the players to always make these performances count. Whereas, almost every other team in the division have 2 or 3 players who could win a game on their own.
I have pointed this out on a few threads. I think people are overcomplicating why we are where we are. We are in the relegation zone ultimately because our players are just not as good. Which was always going to be the case. |
Last para is nail on the head. It's a boring answer and one people seem to shy away from because they either enjoy being critical or frankly still haven't grasped just how tough our task has been.
Not to write the season off or deny we could have done certain things better/differently at times but I'm fairly comfortable in the belief that our main reason for 'failure' is that everyone else is just a lot better than us. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 11:03 - Feb 24 with 3661 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:51 - Feb 24 by LankHenners |
Last para is nail on the head. It's a boring answer and one people seem to shy away from because they either enjoy being critical or frankly still haven't grasped just how tough our task has been.
Not to write the season off or deny we could have done certain things better/differently at times but I'm fairly comfortable in the belief that our main reason for 'failure' is that everyone else is just a lot better than us. |
A good team is greater than the sum of its component parts.
We have had too many match by match changes this season. | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 11:10 - Feb 24 with 3542 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:45 - Feb 24 by tractorboy1978 |
The PL experience we did sign has either spent too long injured or not performed.
I am quite surprised at the lack of heat Kalvin Phillips has felt. There is a good argument he has been our worst signing in terms of expectations vs delivery. He was presumably signed as our nailed on starter that was going to play 35+ PL games and turn in a 7/10 performance week in, week out.
Ben Johnson was signed on a big contract presumably as our first choice RB, but McKenna seemed to work out within about 5 minutes he wasn't up to it and it is only really injuries to Ogbene and Burns that mean he's even getting minutes. |
Phillips has played more minutes this season than he did in 2 years
Why anyone thought he'd be an immediate impact is a bit strange.
Ben Johnson for me is the biggest disappointment. Well that and Muric |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 11:12 - Feb 24 with 3555 views | HighgateBlue |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:32 - Feb 24 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
This.
Think for the most part Mckenna has set us up well, gameplan has been good and you've seen that play out.
Ultimately we just don't have the players to always make these performances count. Whereas, almost every other team in the division have 2 or 3 players who could win a game on their own.
I have pointed this out on a few threads. I think people are overcomplicating why we are where we are. We are in the relegation zone ultimately because our players are just not as good. Which was always going to be the case. |
I agree with large parts of this, but I never like "which was always going to be the case" when it doesn't seem to chime with what was being said at the time. It implies that we are definitely going down (which we probably will, but it's not quite done yet), and that we were always going to go down. Well, the main TWTD poll is a question of whether at the half way point we will go down, and 60% of fans even at that stage thought that we would stay up. I really don't think it was always a given that we would go down. For me, we had a better Championship promotion squad than Luton did, spent an awful lot more than Luton did, and for some reason are not getting the points at this stage of the season that Luton had. So looking at it with today's eyes, I think our current position is a disappointment compared with what could have been the case. I agree that it was always going to be difficult, but I can't agree that it was as foregone as you seem to imply. |  | | |
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