| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! 08:53 - Feb 24 with 7471 views | Asa |
Absolutely love Kieran. He will forever be a club legend. I also wouldn't have wanted the guy replaced if we'd have gone down with Southampton's record this season. Absolutely he's earned his chance and deserves loyalty and I hope he'll be here for years to come because I believe he's going to go right to the very top in the long term.
However ...
We went into this season off the back of a joke of a League One season. Almost 100 points and goals and we absolutely dominated every match we played pretty much. We were insane. McKenna was a genius.
We went into this season off the back of a joke of a Championship season. Almost 100 points and goals and in many games we were second best in terms of possession and chances. But the genius of McKenna again got the team spirit sky high, patterns of play were brilliant, every knew their jobs and he got an extra 10-20 % out of every player as we stormed our way to promotion again.
This year was going to be different. We either went into the season with some players we loved that were, through no fault of their own, not going to cut it in the top flight, or we make wholesale changes to bring in quality and lose a bit of the soul and spirit initially and the new players have to get up to speed with the system.
We were always going to get a few hammerings. We were always going to be down there. The gulf is huge. We were always going to have signings that didn't work out.
However, I honestly expected that, whilst Kieran isn't going to come in as a young coach and consistently out-think Emery, Guardiola, Slot and Arteta from day one, that McKenna's ability alone would be worth 10 points over this season.
That a 20 or 25 point haul would be 30 or 35 because of his tactically ability and that we'd spot weaknesses, stop the opponents exploiting ours and I've not really seen that from him this season. Of course it's bloody difficult all things considered.
Spurs were pretty poor and aimless earlier in the season and we were great. Tactically you could say we were good. Chelsea owed a lot to Delap being out of this world, albeit the tactically side wasn't bad.
So in summary, Kieran is a god, I love him, I want him to stay, he will learn and not having a pop at all, but I thought that no matter what the squad, players, season looked like, him alone might eek out a little bit more than what we've seen from the squad. That's been probably the biggest disappointment for me.
He's not as ready for this level as I thought he'd be, which is fine. He will be. But I did think we'd be sat here in February talking about 5 or 6 McKenna masterclasses that had totally outwitted opposition managers on the way to big wins, rather than what you could say has been 1 or maybe 2.
He's probably where he should be in his coaching journey and maybe I just expect too much of him based on the last two seasons but I do think he's on his way to being a phenomenal manager and thought he'd (possibly unfairly so) be a little bit closer to that at this stage than perhaps the reality suggests. [Post edited 24 Feb 9:20]
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 11:14 - Feb 24 with 1423 views | Steve_M |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:51 - Feb 24 by LankHenners |
Last para is nail on the head. It's a boring answer and one people seem to shy away from because they either enjoy being critical or frankly still haven't grasped just how tough our task has been.
Not to write the season off or deny we could have done certain things better/differently at times but I'm fairly comfortable in the belief that our main reason for 'failure' is that everyone else is just a lot better than us. |
Yes, and because we have been so good for the majority of the last two seasons the search for explanations is even more frantic than usual.
Particularly galling all round after a performance that really should have seen more than it did - albeit one that illustrates where we've just not been good enough this season. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 11:27 - Feb 24 with 1390 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 11:12 - Feb 24 by HighgateBlue |
I agree with large parts of this, but I never like "which was always going to be the case" when it doesn't seem to chime with what was being said at the time. It implies that we are definitely going down (which we probably will, but it's not quite done yet), and that we were always going to go down. Well, the main TWTD poll is a question of whether at the half way point we will go down, and 60% of fans even at that stage thought that we would stay up. I really don't think it was always a given that we would go down. For me, we had a better Championship promotion squad than Luton did, spent an awful lot more than Luton did, and for some reason are not getting the points at this stage of the season that Luton had. So looking at it with today's eyes, I think our current position is a disappointment compared with what could have been the case. I agree that it was always going to be difficult, but I can't agree that it was as foregone as you seem to imply. |
Fair rebuttal.
The point I'm making at the end is about the the quality of players. It was always going to be the case that we had a squad that was weaker than almost all of the league. Given the wage budget, the quick promotions, lack of parachute money etc.
We needed to do something very special to stay up this year with so many factors against us. And we have had a fair crack at it been very unlucky in multiple instances and come out on the wrong side of a lot of fine margins. We might still stay up who knows. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 11:33 - Feb 24 with 1383 views | Herbivore |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:42 - Feb 24 by Funge |
Agreed, for some reason I'd purged that from my mind.
Grotty old day, that. |
Mate, it's no mystery why you've purged that from your memory. We got battered and it could have been even worse. Newcastle were excellent that day to be fair. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 11:35 - Feb 24 with 1377 views | Herbivore |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 11:03 - Feb 24 by Pinewoodblue |
A good team is greater than the sum of its component parts.
We have had too many match by match changes this season. |
Being third from bottom and only 5 points from Wolves, you could argue that we are greater than the sum of our parts despite the changes (many of which have been informed). | |
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| He’s been on wrong side of luck, margins, and squad quality gap, BUT on 12:16 - Feb 24 with 1337 views | unstableblue |
I really hope that the excellent remuneration package, young family in Suffolk, new training ground. And probably drop in his reputation due to results. Means he stays, has a championship promotion, and another crack at the premier league with us - with an improved squad.
Jaden, Clarke, Greaves, OShea, have improved our squad.
I do think Kieran has been on the wrong side of luck/margins - the freak kitchen sink injury for Axel being a great example. The Leicester penalty. Clarke hitting the post at Fulham. Injuries at key times. Ridiculous red card for Axel at Villa Park - he’d have kept Son out on Saturday simple as that.
But I think the squad quality gap was much bigger than expected. Your Fulham’s, Brentford’s, Bournemouth’s who’ve we’ve given good games to - just have so much attacking quality.
But Kieran has made a few mistakes - Godfrey was always going to struggle with just Jaden ahead of him. Not brining subs on early enough. Switching out Muric sooner.
He’ll learn and develop - and I hope he does it with us. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 12:22 - Feb 24 with 1310 views | cressi |
Firstly a wonderful two yrs in league 1 and the championship which I'm greatful to McKenna staff and the owners . Since the early days of McKenna there are 4 of us that travel together I've never believed his god unlike some, remember Cook brought a lot of those players in McKenna moulded into a team.
For me this season the recruitment has been poor and McKenna not tactically astute only has one way of playing has never played a two strikers even when chasing a game . I also question his loyalty and if the big boss from the USA had not come over and gave him the big bucks he would not be here. For me the ownership of the club are far more important than Mr McKenna . | | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 12:25 - Feb 24 with 1294 views | carlo88 |
We were never going to take in sixteen new players this season and expect a new, committed team to emerge quickly. I think we would have done as well, maybe better, with just half of them. |  | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 12:28 - Feb 24 with 1267 views | cressi |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 12:25 - Feb 24 by carlo88 |
We were never going to take in sixteen new players this season and expect a new, committed team to emerge quickly. I think we would have done as well, maybe better, with just half of them. |
To many who are much of a mucher not enough rough tough physical premier league players . | | | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 12:35 - Feb 24 with 1251 views | hoppy |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:02 - Feb 24 by PioneerBlue |
I hadn’t appreciated how far ahead teams had gotten themselves. I knew it was going to be difficult and some players would make it and others wouldnt. I knew it would be a challenge to not be relegated but it’s surprised me how near but far we are from being able to compete game to game given we’ve spent a massive chunk of change to not quite compete successfully.
Back to your OP.
There will of course be mistakes and things we could or should have done differently but football is alchemy not only logic. We’ve had a lot of injuries in the wrong positions at the wrong time. It’s likely we didn’t quite get the balance right in target positions and acquisitions in Aug and Jan, it’s likely we didn’t quite get the structure, set up for fast transition, and in game tactics right in many games.
We can unpick all that in May! We still need the team to go and finish the season with as much professional pride and courage as they can, lots for the club to play for although it might not be a place in the PL. [Post edited 24 Feb 9:15]
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There is one very simple factor that mustn't be forgotten regarding how far ahead teams had got themselves...
Since Fulham, Bournemouth and Forest got promoted at the end of 2021/22 season, ALL the 17 teams above us have remained in the Premier League, so have the benefit of consistency and squad improvement over that time - which now equates to 6 transfer windows. We've had 2 transfer windows at this level, to try and compete.
We're 5 points plus goal difference behind one of those currently, so it's certainly not all over yet for this season, but while the bottom 3 come up and go down and come up again, the other 17 clubs just continue to get stronger. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 12:51 - Feb 24 with 1225 views | RobTheMonk |
We must have lost about 10 points at least from really bad individual errors or shocking refs.
I do think we just rolled over against Liverpool and City though and some of that is how we setup to play. |  | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 12:55 - Feb 24 with 1212 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 12:22 - Feb 24 by cressi |
Firstly a wonderful two yrs in league 1 and the championship which I'm greatful to McKenna staff and the owners . Since the early days of McKenna there are 4 of us that travel together I've never believed his god unlike some, remember Cook brought a lot of those players in McKenna moulded into a team.
For me this season the recruitment has been poor and McKenna not tactically astute only has one way of playing has never played a two strikers even when chasing a game . I also question his loyalty and if the big boss from the USA had not come over and gave him the big bucks he would not be here. For me the ownership of the club are far more important than Mr McKenna . |
"McKenna not tactically astute only has one way of playing has never played a two strikers even when chasing a game . I also question his loyalty and if the big boss from the USA had not come over and gave him the big bucks he would not be here"
Is this a serious post ? | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:11 - Feb 24 with 1190 views | _clive_baker_ |
It’s hard to know when there’s so many variables at play if we’re over or under indexing or about right. Ultimately, as others have said, the premier league is brutal. We’ve got no right to be drawing home and away with Villa and beating Spurs or Chelsea. Yes there’s been some dogs of performances and poor results, but most of our players wouldn’t get near most of the sides at this level, that’s the reality. You could argue finishing above the other 2 sides we came up with would be an achievement in itself, but bridging that gap to an Everton / Palace / Wolves is a step too far for reasons way outside of McKenna’s control. You don’t do what he did last season without having a lot about you and there’s enough evidence and credit in the bank to suggest he’s part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
Stick with it, we’ve got a better squad than we have had in decades, and while it’s not enough for the premier league at the moment we need to be careful not to self sabotage and be too reactionary. We’re going down, but we’ve got every chance of being very competitive next season and having a great season. Progression isn’t always linear, we don’t have a cheat code to do what no club has ever managed to do in the modern game. We’ve taken a few big steps forward, we’ll likely take a step back but be starting there from a much higher base than we were 18 months back when Leeds & West Brom were pulling us apart at times.
Also when all is said and done as a supporter it’s about pride and enjoyment. We’ve had more of that in the last few years than arguably any other club in the country. Stick together, let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. |  | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:11 - Feb 24 with 1183 views | Herbivore |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 12:55 - Feb 24 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
"McKenna not tactically astute only has one way of playing has never played a two strikers even when chasing a game . I also question his loyalty and if the big boss from the USA had not come over and gave him the big bucks he would not be here"
Is this a serious post ? |
Calls manager not tactically astute, suggests chucking two men up top. You couldn't make it up really. | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:14 - Feb 24 with 1162 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:11 - Feb 24 by Herbivore |
Calls manager not tactically astute, suggests chucking two men up top. You couldn't make it up really. |
Utterly bonkers.
Also I am not sure where this notion that all top managers have a plan B which is a completely unique gameplan has come from. It is total nonsense. More often than not it is tweaks to an existing system to find spaces on the pitch. Which McKenna does CONSTANTLY. | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:28 - Feb 24 with 1141 views | southnorfolkblue |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 10:23 - Feb 24 by jasondozzell |
Understand your reasoning but I just don't agree. I think if you'd ask him himself, he might well say that this season and having us top of the promoted sides, within touching distance of safety after three quarters of season , with some outstanding wins and some excellent performances against top sides is his biggest achievement to date.
It's all about context. |
Some outstanding wins...it's 3 all season in the league.
Biggest issue for me is the muddled thinking on recruitment. Latte Lath gets done if we don't waste time on Broja and leave it to the last minute. Godfrey signing made no sense with Axel only days from return. We didn't need Philogene who is another right footed player that wants to cut in from the left, when our central midfield was crying out to be revamped as they're Our central either ageing or can't stay fit. Net result is that the squad looks completely unbalanced.
I'm not saying that this is the reason we're going down because the gulf is massive, but I don't think we've recruited well across the board. | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:32 - Feb 24 with 1133 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:11 - Feb 24 by _clive_baker_ |
It’s hard to know when there’s so many variables at play if we’re over or under indexing or about right. Ultimately, as others have said, the premier league is brutal. We’ve got no right to be drawing home and away with Villa and beating Spurs or Chelsea. Yes there’s been some dogs of performances and poor results, but most of our players wouldn’t get near most of the sides at this level, that’s the reality. You could argue finishing above the other 2 sides we came up with would be an achievement in itself, but bridging that gap to an Everton / Palace / Wolves is a step too far for reasons way outside of McKenna’s control. You don’t do what he did last season without having a lot about you and there’s enough evidence and credit in the bank to suggest he’s part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
Stick with it, we’ve got a better squad than we have had in decades, and while it’s not enough for the premier league at the moment we need to be careful not to self sabotage and be too reactionary. We’re going down, but we’ve got every chance of being very competitive next season and having a great season. Progression isn’t always linear, we don’t have a cheat code to do what no club has ever managed to do in the modern game. We’ve taken a few big steps forward, we’ll likely take a step back but be starting there from a much higher base than we were 18 months back when Leeds & West Brom were pulling us apart at times.
Also when all is said and done as a supporter it’s about pride and enjoyment. We’ve had more of that in the last few years than arguably any other club in the country. Stick together, let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. |
Nailed it. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:33 - Feb 24 with 1133 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:11 - Feb 24 by _clive_baker_ |
It’s hard to know when there’s so many variables at play if we’re over or under indexing or about right. Ultimately, as others have said, the premier league is brutal. We’ve got no right to be drawing home and away with Villa and beating Spurs or Chelsea. Yes there’s been some dogs of performances and poor results, but most of our players wouldn’t get near most of the sides at this level, that’s the reality. You could argue finishing above the other 2 sides we came up with would be an achievement in itself, but bridging that gap to an Everton / Palace / Wolves is a step too far for reasons way outside of McKenna’s control. You don’t do what he did last season without having a lot about you and there’s enough evidence and credit in the bank to suggest he’s part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
Stick with it, we’ve got a better squad than we have had in decades, and while it’s not enough for the premier league at the moment we need to be careful not to self sabotage and be too reactionary. We’re going down, but we’ve got every chance of being very competitive next season and having a great season. Progression isn’t always linear, we don’t have a cheat code to do what no club has ever managed to do in the modern game. We’ve taken a few big steps forward, we’ll likely take a step back but be starting there from a much higher base than we were 18 months back when Leeds & West Brom were pulling us apart at times.
Also when all is said and done as a supporter it’s about pride and enjoyment. We’ve had more of that in the last few years than arguably any other club in the country. Stick together, let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water. |
They should pin this at the top of the forum. | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 14:48 - Feb 24 with 1052 views | Herbivore |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:14 - Feb 24 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Utterly bonkers.
Also I am not sure where this notion that all top managers have a plan B which is a completely unique gameplan has come from. It is total nonsense. More often than not it is tweaks to an existing system to find spaces on the pitch. Which McKenna does CONSTANTLY. |
You must have missed all those times Pep has chucked Ruben Dias up top and launched it long into him. Oh wait, you haven't because in real life football that doesn't happen because it doesn't work against quality football teams. | |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 14:54 - Feb 24 with 1039 views | mellowblue |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 09:52 - Feb 24 by portmanking |
You're right in that most of that post is nonsense - apart from the physicality part. Given McKenna knew the level, I am surprised we didn't go for at least 2-3 bulkier players with more of a presence. At times it almost looks like doping, given how much stronger every established PL players looks compared with ours. |
We were a little unlucky in that 2 of our bulker players are losing their legs, Luongo and Morsy. If those guys were a few years younger, could have made a difference. | | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 14:54 - Feb 24 with 1035 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 14:48 - Feb 24 by Herbivore |
You must have missed all those times Pep has chucked Ruben Dias up top and launched it long into him. Oh wait, you haven't because in real life football that doesn't happen because it doesn't work against quality football teams. |
That's quite am our there example herbz lol.
One thing I will say on this situation is I have defo seen orem clubs this season use 2 and 3 strikers when chasing a game. Rather than just a like for like swap. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 15:15 - Feb 24 with 1012 views | ITFCSG |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:28 - Feb 24 by southnorfolkblue |
Some outstanding wins...it's 3 all season in the league.
Biggest issue for me is the muddled thinking on recruitment. Latte Lath gets done if we don't waste time on Broja and leave it to the last minute. Godfrey signing made no sense with Axel only days from return. We didn't need Philogene who is another right footed player that wants to cut in from the left, when our central midfield was crying out to be revamped as they're Our central either ageing or can't stay fit. Net result is that the squad looks completely unbalanced.
I'm not saying that this is the reason we're going down because the gulf is massive, but I don't think we've recruited well across the board. |
Totally agree on recruitment which is the biggest issue for our current predicament.
1. Fixation on signing 10s for out-of-the-world prices even though we have a glut of players in this position
2. Over-obsession on certain players (Latte Lath, Broja, Philogene, Downes) causes us to lose out on others
3. Inability to recruit from abroad due to lack of proper overseas scouting network / McK's preference of home nations players
4. Muric. Enough said.
Also, even though I admit that the quality of the Prem are streets above the Champ and League One, I have not so far seen any "genius" from McK to change the game around this season unlike the previous two. No tactical changes and change of formation even if we are chasing the match. Instead it is "like-for-like" substitutions every week and teams have long sussed us out. All our return fixtures (with the exception of Villa and Fulham) have seen us worse off the first. Southampton was really the worst, I had no idea what the team and manager were thinking.
Being young isn't really an exception. Dino Mick has plenty of experience but I doubt anyone would want him back now. Hürzeler is 7 years younger than McKenna and look at his tactics when they played us at PR. In the second half he purposely had his team to sit back and draw us out and hit on the counter after realising the high press they employed in the first half wasn't going anywhere. Also, he is able to work with a team of international players from across the world effectively even though English isn't even his first language.
For all the praise McK gets bringing us from League One to the Prem, he is still a long way from being a genius or the messiah many people love to think he is. | | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 15:21 - Feb 24 with 1002 views | JakeITFC |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 15:15 - Feb 24 by ITFCSG |
Totally agree on recruitment which is the biggest issue for our current predicament.
1. Fixation on signing 10s for out-of-the-world prices even though we have a glut of players in this position
2. Over-obsession on certain players (Latte Lath, Broja, Philogene, Downes) causes us to lose out on others
3. Inability to recruit from abroad due to lack of proper overseas scouting network / McK's preference of home nations players
4. Muric. Enough said.
Also, even though I admit that the quality of the Prem are streets above the Champ and League One, I have not so far seen any "genius" from McK to change the game around this season unlike the previous two. No tactical changes and change of formation even if we are chasing the match. Instead it is "like-for-like" substitutions every week and teams have long sussed us out. All our return fixtures (with the exception of Villa and Fulham) have seen us worse off the first. Southampton was really the worst, I had no idea what the team and manager were thinking.
Being young isn't really an exception. Dino Mick has plenty of experience but I doubt anyone would want him back now. Hürzeler is 7 years younger than McKenna and look at his tactics when they played us at PR. In the second half he purposely had his team to sit back and draw us out and hit on the counter after realising the high press they employed in the first half wasn't going anywhere. Also, he is able to work with a team of international players from across the world effectively even though English isn't even his first language.
For all the praise McK gets bringing us from League One to the Prem, he is still a long way from being a genius or the messiah many people love to think he is. |
I don't think it is ridiculous to argue that McKenna is doing a better job with his resources than Hürzeler is with his. McKenna may not have got results for all of his tactical changes this season but to say he's just stuck to the tried and tested during games is frankly nonsense. |  | | |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 15:27 - Feb 24 with 973 views | FifeITFC |
I always went into this season with the thought that we'd end up going down. If we survived, outstanding.
But in reality I felt we would go down NOT because we were bad, but because it's been a big jump too quickly from League 1 to Premier. Even if we hadn't had that spell in League 1, we had been out of the top flight for such a long time that the gulf has become absolutely huge.
I don't just mean on the pitch, but off it too. Look at the amount of work that's been needed on and off the pitch during the summer with upgrades etc.
There's just been so much done and needed to be done to just get us to compete on a similar playing field.
But... saying that, I feel we've acquited ourselves - on the whole - very well and we'll become much stronger for it. The Premiership money is new money to us, compared to a Wolves, Southampton, Leicester, Leeds etc. It will make us stronger for it.
I have no doubt McKennna is still the man for the job and the team will still need to continually strengthen and improve (as would any club) but ultimately I don't think we've disgraced ourselves whatsoever.
I would rather be in our position than, say, Southampton etc are. |  |
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 16:05 - Feb 24 with 890 views | Herbivore |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 15:21 - Feb 24 by JakeITFC |
I don't think it is ridiculous to argue that McKenna is doing a better job with his resources than Hürzeler is with his. McKenna may not have got results for all of his tactical changes this season but to say he's just stuck to the tried and tested during games is frankly nonsense. |
We were also the better side the first 15 mins of the second half against Brighton, with Burns missing a decent chance. They scored with their first meaningful attack but should have been down to 10 men before then after Pedro's assault on Walton, which could have contributed to him letting a soft goal in. After that they just sh!thoused their way through the last 25 minutes and nicked another goal out of nothing. It wasn't exactly a tactical masterclass. [Post edited 24 Feb 16:06]
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| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 16:19 - Feb 24 with 871 views | itfcjoe |
| Massive disclaimer here, so hear me out! on 13:28 - Feb 24 by southnorfolkblue |
Some outstanding wins...it's 3 all season in the league.
Biggest issue for me is the muddled thinking on recruitment. Latte Lath gets done if we don't waste time on Broja and leave it to the last minute. Godfrey signing made no sense with Axel only days from return. We didn't need Philogene who is another right footed player that wants to cut in from the left, when our central midfield was crying out to be revamped as they're Our central either ageing or can't stay fit. Net result is that the squad looks completely unbalanced.
I'm not saying that this is the reason we're going down because the gulf is massive, but I don't think we've recruited well across the board. |
I don't see that the squad looks unbalanced, bar the issue we've had on the RW where Burns did his cruciate just after Enciso and Philogene signed we basically just have 2 players per position with a couple of spares in there to help. |  |
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