| These Canadian tariffs 10:03 - Mar 6 with 2372 views | nodge_blue |
In my endless watching odyssey of YouTube videos yesterday on Trump, I learned that only Congress should be imposing tariffs. Only the Cold War time granted a limited power to the president to do so should there be a national emergency.
So Trump immediately abuses that and says that it's a drugs crisis. That gives him a thin veil of legality. But as someone else pointed out, the amount of captured fentanyl coming from the Canadian border last year was about a suitcase full.
So Canada cant win because its cant prevent any drugs or illegal immigrants at all coming over its border. And of course thats not the real reason for the tariffs anyway - it's a tool to impose pressure on them to joining the USA. Which clearly won't happen.
How can his acolytes like Karoline Leavitt and Marco Rubio wear the cross of Christ and know they are telling lies? Rubio even had the lent cross painted on his forehead yesterday like he's some medieval monk.
It will be "interesting" to see the justification for tariffs imposed on the EU or the UK.
[Post edited 6 Mar 10:05]
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| These Canadian tariffs on 10:08 - Mar 6 with 2321 views | giant_stow |
Interesting theological question there. Personally, I'd tend to agree with the point implied in your question, but then again, no one's perfect and even the most holy make mistakes.
On the wider point, it sounds like the Canadians are truely pissed off and who can blame them. That man is causing so much damage. To everything. |  |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 10:08 - Mar 6 with 2317 views | redrickstuhaart |
Its what he does time and again. A greater version of what Boris used to do. Break the normal rules and conventions until it becomes normalised. Verbally slaughter anyone who speaks against it.
The man is a compulsive liar and, I have to assume, either extremely stupid and being led by very sinister forces, or very clever and purposely spouting the lies in order to normalise certain narratives.
See also "$8m for transgender mice"- this is real!" |  | | |
| These Canadian tariffs on 10:18 - Mar 6 with 2257 views | nodge_blue |
| These Canadian tariffs on 10:08 - Mar 6 by giant_stow |
Interesting theological question there. Personally, I'd tend to agree with the point implied in your question, but then again, no one's perfect and even the most holy make mistakes.
On the wider point, it sounds like the Canadians are truely pissed off and who can blame them. That man is causing so much damage. To everything. |
Karoline Leavitt is something else. She is a confident and supremely assured speaker. But the way she defends the indefensible is beyond me.
They ask her a question about Canada and she just defers to the number of US deaths from drugs without acknowledging Canada is a tiny, tiny contributor. | |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 10:27 - Mar 6 with 2226 views | Basuco |
My thoughts were, if all Canadian goods are now 25% more expensive, Americans now have to either pay 25% more fore them or pay for the more expensive American products. Also it gives American companies freedom to raise their prices and still be able to undercut imports.
Is this what making America great again means, more profits for American companies and higher prices for ordinary Americans? [Post edited 6 Mar 10:31]
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| These Canadian tariffs on 10:46 - Mar 6 with 2129 views | Guthrum |
Because they are libertarian social conservatives* masquerading as Christians for the support from similar in the Bible Belt. That's why they make such a big show of it (Matthew ch6 v5).
* There's quite a lot of paradoxical inconsistency in that position. |  |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 10:49 - Mar 6 with 2107 views | Guthrum |
| These Canadian tariffs on 10:27 - Mar 6 by Basuco |
My thoughts were, if all Canadian goods are now 25% more expensive, Americans now have to either pay 25% more fore them or pay for the more expensive American products. Also it gives American companies freedom to raise their prices and still be able to undercut imports.
Is this what making America great again means, more profits for American companies and higher prices for ordinary Americans? [Post edited 6 Mar 10:31]
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Yes.
Tho I don't think it's deliberate. Trump seems to think tariffs are a tax paid by the company exporting into the USA rather than the importer and which somehow will not be passed on to consumers. | |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 11:00 - Mar 6 with 2079 views | tonybied |
| These Canadian tariffs on 10:27 - Mar 6 by Basuco |
My thoughts were, if all Canadian goods are now 25% more expensive, Americans now have to either pay 25% more fore them or pay for the more expensive American products. Also it gives American companies freedom to raise their prices and still be able to undercut imports.
Is this what making America great again means, more profits for American companies and higher prices for ordinary Americans? [Post edited 6 Mar 10:31]
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I imagine in the long term this "may" actually work, it's not as dumb as some think. Initially, "ordinary Americans" will be forced to pay inflated prices for American-produced products, but, eventually, it'll probably mean this'll create the need for more new American companies to be established. That will eventually mean more competition, forcing prices back down but still keeping the American money in the American market.
It's a whole lot of pain for Americans and the rest of the world to suffer to get to that stage though. It also ostracizes your closest allies, which will most likely go on to have other adverse reactions. |  | | |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:15 - Mar 6 with 1995 views | StokieBlue |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:00 - Mar 6 by tonybied |
I imagine in the long term this "may" actually work, it's not as dumb as some think. Initially, "ordinary Americans" will be forced to pay inflated prices for American-produced products, but, eventually, it'll probably mean this'll create the need for more new American companies to be established. That will eventually mean more competition, forcing prices back down but still keeping the American money in the American market.
It's a whole lot of pain for Americans and the rest of the world to suffer to get to that stage though. It also ostracizes your closest allies, which will most likely go on to have other adverse reactions. |
This is the Trump view but in the real world it's unlikely to happen for various reasons:
- Will people want to work in low skill manufacturing jobs?
- Even with the tariffs, cost are likely still more to make in the US.
- There is a finite limit to how cheap things can be produced unless you're expecting Americans to work for a tiny wage.
- Will companies be willing to provide the setup costs for new facilities when the tariffs will likely be dropped at some point and they immediately become uncompetitive with regards to costs and pricing?
So whilst it sounds good, in reality it's unlikely to produce the endgame you've outlined.
SB |  | | |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 11:17 - Mar 6 with 1988 views | StokieBlue |
Some rumblings from Canada about turning off the power they provide to states like Michigan and New York.
Doubt it will happen but demonstrates how close the countries are linked and the folly of Trump's aggressive stance.
SB | | | |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:22 - Mar 6 with 1934 views | DanTheMan |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:15 - Mar 6 by StokieBlue |
This is the Trump view but in the real world it's unlikely to happen for various reasons:
- Will people want to work in low skill manufacturing jobs?
- Even with the tariffs, cost are likely still more to make in the US.
- There is a finite limit to how cheap things can be produced unless you're expecting Americans to work for a tiny wage.
- Will companies be willing to provide the setup costs for new facilities when the tariffs will likely be dropped at some point and they immediately become uncompetitive with regards to costs and pricing?
So whilst it sounds good, in reality it's unlikely to produce the endgame you've outlined.
SB |
I think you're both right, it can bring jobs and strengthen your local industries but they have to be there and ready to expand with a comparable labour force.
We didn't see that happen the first time they tried this with steel, in fact that sector just continued to lose jobs anyway and because they used way more steel than they produced it just ending up hitting all the other industries and costing them jobs as well.
Tariffs have to be well thought out and prepared for which isn't something you would usually say about Trumps policies. |  |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 11:31 - Mar 6 with 1849 views | Basuco |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:22 - Mar 6 by DanTheMan |
I think you're both right, it can bring jobs and strengthen your local industries but they have to be there and ready to expand with a comparable labour force.
We didn't see that happen the first time they tried this with steel, in fact that sector just continued to lose jobs anyway and because they used way more steel than they produced it just ending up hitting all the other industries and costing them jobs as well.
Tariffs have to be well thought out and prepared for which isn't something you would usually say about Trumps policies. |
Another unknown is if tariffs create an anti American product attitude in the Countries where they are applied and American exports are reduced as a result. | | | |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:35 - Mar 6 with 1790 views | nodge_blue |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:00 - Mar 6 by tonybied |
I imagine in the long term this "may" actually work, it's not as dumb as some think. Initially, "ordinary Americans" will be forced to pay inflated prices for American-produced products, but, eventually, it'll probably mean this'll create the need for more new American companies to be established. That will eventually mean more competition, forcing prices back down but still keeping the American money in the American market.
It's a whole lot of pain for Americans and the rest of the world to suffer to get to that stage though. It also ostracizes your closest allies, which will most likely go on to have other adverse reactions. |
But their western way of living means they cant ever produce goods as cheaply as other countries. Theres a reason all our industry went abroad. Marks and Spencer's used to just sell British clothing but when people stopped buying it because the price was too high they had to about turn.
It's ironic that part of me would like to see a return to less reliance on global supply chains and more produced at home. But prices will never be forced back down to primark levels if we do that - cos no one would be working for £2 an hour to make a t shirt. | |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 12:00 - Mar 6 with 1673 views | giant_stow |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:17 - Mar 6 by StokieBlue |
Some rumblings from Canada about turning off the power they provide to states like Michigan and New York.
Doubt it will happen but demonstrates how close the countries are linked and the folly of Trump's aggressive stance.
SB |
Interesting. Would be pretty nuclear, but Trump's behaviour deserves it. | |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 12:07 - Mar 6 with 1647 views | Herbivore |
| These Canadian tariffs on 12:00 - Mar 6 by giant_stow |
Interesting. Would be pretty nuclear, but Trump's behaviour deserves it. |
Think some of it is also wind powered and possibly geothermal. |  |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 12:55 - Mar 6 with 1496 views | tonybied |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:15 - Mar 6 by StokieBlue |
This is the Trump view but in the real world it's unlikely to happen for various reasons:
- Will people want to work in low skill manufacturing jobs?
- Even with the tariffs, cost are likely still more to make in the US.
- There is a finite limit to how cheap things can be produced unless you're expecting Americans to work for a tiny wage.
- Will companies be willing to provide the setup costs for new facilities when the tariffs will likely be dropped at some point and they immediately become uncompetitive with regards to costs and pricing?
So whilst it sounds good, in reality it's unlikely to produce the endgame you've outlined.
SB |
Not saying I agree with the plan, or even that I think it'll work but just trying to point out that it's just a crazy idea, rather than a bat sh*t crazy idea!  | | | |
| These Canadian tariffs on 13:18 - Mar 6 with 1446 views | Guthrum |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:00 - Mar 6 by tonybied |
I imagine in the long term this "may" actually work, it's not as dumb as some think. Initially, "ordinary Americans" will be forced to pay inflated prices for American-produced products, but, eventually, it'll probably mean this'll create the need for more new American companies to be established. That will eventually mean more competition, forcing prices back down but still keeping the American money in the American market.
It's a whole lot of pain for Americans and the rest of the world to suffer to get to that stage though. It also ostracizes your closest allies, which will most likely go on to have other adverse reactions. |
The US domestic market is pretty sizeable, but they risk turning their backs on billions of consumers in the export sphere. Including an awful lot of those buying industrial/medical/military-level high tech. | |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 14:08 - Mar 6 with 1297 views | Churchman |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:00 - Mar 6 by tonybied |
I imagine in the long term this "may" actually work, it's not as dumb as some think. Initially, "ordinary Americans" will be forced to pay inflated prices for American-produced products, but, eventually, it'll probably mean this'll create the need for more new American companies to be established. That will eventually mean more competition, forcing prices back down but still keeping the American money in the American market.
It's a whole lot of pain for Americans and the rest of the world to suffer to get to that stage though. It also ostracizes your closest allies, which will most likely go on to have other adverse reactions. |
History says it won't work at all. There are several reasons and limitless examples why.
Most things are not wholly made in one country by one manufacturer. It’s not cost effective and there are no economies of scale. Even Panasonic gave up making TVs entirely from their parts.
Production often means components or goods passing between several countries several times. It’s not done to keep truck drivers happy, it’s done because it’s the most cost effective way to do it. It’s what a global economy and tariff free trade is all about.
In America, who is actually going to make cheap components for complex products in a way that they can compete with say China? They might be able to do it if they close their economy, Russia style or invade Mexico and Canada and treat them as slave states, but even then without competition their industry will die.
At the end of the war Zeiss had two centres of producing optics. One in the west, the other near Leipzig. One invested to be competitive, the other didn’t need to with a captive market. The day the wall came down, East Germany Zeiss was bankrupt. That’s an extreme example of protectionism and closed borders.
America played with tariffs in the first half of 20c. It led to the Great Recession. Ok the rest of the world might have suffered more, but the bread lines in the US were long. It didn’t end with the New Deal. It ended with producing military hardware for the U.K. (paid for through the nose!) first, then themselves when they rearmed.
In your first paragraph, you suggest high prices might mean more entrants. Maybe, but that depends on volumes and more importantly barriers to entry. If a company has a monopoly it will do anything to keep it.
Tariffs don’t work. They never have. Invading other countries and stealing all their assets works far better. Until people start realising you are just an orange maniac with a liking for rich people and make up. |  | | |
| These Canadian tariffs on 14:20 - Mar 6 with 1253 views | bluester |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:35 - Mar 6 by nodge_blue |
But their western way of living means they cant ever produce goods as cheaply as other countries. Theres a reason all our industry went abroad. Marks and Spencer's used to just sell British clothing but when people stopped buying it because the price was too high they had to about turn.
It's ironic that part of me would like to see a return to less reliance on global supply chains and more produced at home. But prices will never be forced back down to primark levels if we do that - cos no one would be working for £2 an hour to make a t shirt. |
"But prices will never be forced back down to primark levels if we do that - cos no one would be working for £2 an hour to make a t shirt."
That wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing. Higher prices could encourage better quality and sustainability over cheap, throw away fashion. This might be a good time to move away from the US model of rampant consumerism and more towards a balanced economic model, one less driven by aggressive capitalism like the US system. I'd also like to include in that, for the French - 2 hour lunches, the Spanish - Siestas and for us - pints at lunchtime. | | | |
| These Canadian tariffs on 15:11 - Mar 6 with 1164 views | Kropotkin123 |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:00 - Mar 6 by tonybied |
I imagine in the long term this "may" actually work, it's not as dumb as some think. Initially, "ordinary Americans" will be forced to pay inflated prices for American-produced products, but, eventually, it'll probably mean this'll create the need for more new American companies to be established. That will eventually mean more competition, forcing prices back down but still keeping the American money in the American market.
It's a whole lot of pain for Americans and the rest of the world to suffer to get to that stage though. It also ostracizes your closest allies, which will most likely go on to have other adverse reactions. |
Or, as US consumers find alternative options, Canadian companies feel forced to set up production and manufacturing plants in the US, shifting Canadian companies and jobs to America. |  |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 15:32 - Mar 6 with 1112 views | OldFart71 |
A think Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee they have with their pancakes for breakfast. If they have eggs they are already about $9 a dozen. Trump is a disgusting human being. He purports to want peace in Gaza and peace in the Ukraine. Yeah, he certainly wants peace. A piece of Gaza and a piece of the Ukraine. He along with Putin is holding large swathes of the world to ransom as Putin won't have European or Nato troops along the border between the Ukraine and Russia and won't negotiate with anyone other than Trump. Trump wants minerals from the Ukraine to pay for the "help" they have given and won't talk with Zalensky unless he signs the agreement without guarantees. I appreciate Trump wants to see other Nato countries paying their fair share and I see where he is coming from with regards to the imbalance of goods in and out of the US. But America will only be considered Great in Countries other than America if they show compassion, speak with civility and stop behaving like school yard bully boys. | | | |
| These Canadian tariffs on 15:43 - Mar 6 with 1079 views | Kropotkin123 |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:17 - Mar 6 by StokieBlue |
Some rumblings from Canada about turning off the power they provide to states like Michigan and New York.
Doubt it will happen but demonstrates how close the countries are linked and the folly of Trump's aggressive stance.
SB |
This was Doug Ford, who called a snap election in order to get a mandate to fight Trump's trade war. I don't think it is possible in the way he outlines, but he could definitely take steps to increase the price on it to create a similar impact. He's already gone further than the government on other issues.
Eg, government = tax on the sale of American Red state Alcohol.
Ontario = illegal to restock American Alcohol.
Jack Daniels = Crying about this, saying it is worse than tariffs
me = Pick up the phone to Trump then Jack.
I heard rumours at work that the car industry (Ford, et al.) had rung up Trump and changes that favour Canada were coming there, which is the point of the Canadian responses. I hadn't taken the time to read up on this yet. | |
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| These Canadian tariffs on 16:00 - Mar 6 with 1042 views | Kropotkin123 |
| These Canadian tariffs on 13:18 - Mar 6 by Guthrum |
The US domestic market is pretty sizeable, but they risk turning their backs on billions of consumers in the export sphere. Including an awful lot of those buying industrial/medical/military-level high tech. |
I'm speaking to a few companies about a PaaS. No tariffs on this at the moment. But I will be getting them to write either deferral of payments or ability to pay monthly at the annualised rate if tariffs are in place on their service. If not, I'll move to another PaaS.
I'm also looking to see if any Canadian companies can fill our needs.
In my negotiation I've asked them for their plans if the trade war impacts our payments to them. So we'll see what they say. But, yeah, it is already impacting American businesses because we can't trust their government. [Post edited 6 Mar 16:08]
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| These Canadian tariffs on 17:08 - Mar 6 with 956 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| These Canadian tariffs on 11:00 - Mar 6 by tonybied |
I imagine in the long term this "may" actually work, it's not as dumb as some think. Initially, "ordinary Americans" will be forced to pay inflated prices for American-produced products, but, eventually, it'll probably mean this'll create the need for more new American companies to be established. That will eventually mean more competition, forcing prices back down but still keeping the American money in the American market.
It's a whole lot of pain for Americans and the rest of the world to suffer to get to that stage though. It also ostracizes your closest allies, which will most likely go on to have other adverse reactions. |
Analogous ( with the emphasis on anal ) to Brexit then. Sunny uplands on the way. |  | | |
| These Canadian tariffs on 18:14 - Mar 6 with 903 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Trump and his colleagues are far from the only people to have used Christian belief as a political tool. Much as all Christians are from perfect, I don't think Christian belief comes into many of their thinking. |  |
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