| Where we are at 10:47 - Mar 9 with 6973 views | JakeITFC |
I thought yesterday was a microcosm of our season - very competitive, had chances, gave up chances and were probably on the wrong side of a tight game that could have gone our way. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve come away from a game this year feeling that way and it must be brutal for the team to be on the wrong side of it so often.
Honestly I think we probably are the 18th best team in this division so it isn’t really a sob story because it’s a fair reflection of where we are and where we should be. What I would say is that McKenna is right in his reflections (as he so often is) - for whatever reason we are still a team finding our feet at the level, integrating new players and trying new things out. Our front four is full of young and supremely talented individuals who are doing different things than what they’ve had to do previously and will be better for the experience and I think our general defending (and goalkeeping) is much improved. I really do see players and the general team getting better and it’s testament to good coaching and general management that they are still putting in confident and competitive performances like yesterday.
I come on here and it feels like a bit of a doomsday mood when I just don’t share that same negativity at all (and also feel that the general mood of fans at the game yesterday reflects my opinion on that). Relegation will be sad but definitely isn’t anywhere near the end of the road and you’d fancy whoever we have in charge (hopefully McKenna but who knows) would have a very good young squad to have a real crack at the Championship with next year. |  | | |  |
| Where we are at on 18:36 - Mar 9 with 1479 views | SamWhiteUK |
POTY |  | | |
| Where we are at on 19:18 - Mar 9 with 1447 views | billlm |
| Where we are at on 17:44 - Mar 9 by TractorWood |
I'm calling it out early and frequently. On this very thread:
Something terribly wrong( no divine right footballs football) if we're not a front runner,
We should look a very good footballing side in the championship, |
Maybe I misinterpret you,
I don't think we will walk it,
Said anything can happen in football,
But we should be there or there abouts, |  | | |
| Where we are at on 19:24 - Mar 9 with 1442 views | Herbivore |
| Where we are at on 18:21 - Mar 9 by TractorWood |
There is a seismic difference between be up there in the odds market at the start of the season and our fan base expecting it. You know this but are conveniently ignoring. Lots of happy clappers talk about entitlement in the fan base.
This is entitlement in plain sight. Anyone who thinks in March we are just going be in the mix next year because we are massive in a league where our otherwise best effort is basically scraping playoffs once a decade has probably forgotten the 20 years of drawing with Wednesday et al. I certainly haven't. |
I don't think you've really responded to my points here and a lot of what you say makes little sense. Nobody has said we'll be in the mix because we're massive. Nobody thinks we're going to walk the Championship. This season isn't even over yet.
But it's a simple fact that relegated sides are at a huge advantage in the Championship these days, they have strong squads and massive parachute payments that give them an unfair advantage over other sides. There's a reason Sheffield United and Burnley are right up there, despite squad and manager turnover. There's a reason Leeds, Saints, and Leicester were top 4 when we went up, even with turnover of squad and manager. I get that you're on a massive negativity trip but you're making stuff up and turning a blind eye to reality. |  |
| |
| Where we are at on 21:47 - Mar 9 with 1361 views | TractorWood |
| Where we are at on 19:24 - Mar 9 by Herbivore |
I don't think you've really responded to my points here and a lot of what you say makes little sense. Nobody has said we'll be in the mix because we're massive. Nobody thinks we're going to walk the Championship. This season isn't even over yet.
But it's a simple fact that relegated sides are at a huge advantage in the Championship these days, they have strong squads and massive parachute payments that give them an unfair advantage over other sides. There's a reason Sheffield United and Burnley are right up there, despite squad and manager turnover. There's a reason Leeds, Saints, and Leicester were top 4 when we went up, even with turnover of squad and manager. I get that you're on a massive negativity trip but you're making stuff up and turning a blind eye to reality. |
Not really sure what points of yours I've ignored. You've just said bookies will have us high up, which is true. I understand that we will be up there in the odds at the start of the season. That is right and logical.
Reality? We are going down having spent £150m badly, bar Delap.
I don't think our squad is materially (key word) better than the one got us promoted. Particularly with likely departures and those who will likely stay.
What I take issue with is our fan base just expecting us to be up there. We've pulled off a massive, incredible upset in doing back to back. If McKenna goes I think we'll be back where we've spent 15 of the last 20 years. Scrapping around. [Post edited 9 Mar 21:49]
|  |
| |
| Where we are at on 21:55 - Mar 9 with 1328 views | BarcaBlue |
| Where we are at on 21:47 - Mar 9 by TractorWood |
Not really sure what points of yours I've ignored. You've just said bookies will have us high up, which is true. I understand that we will be up there in the odds at the start of the season. That is right and logical.
Reality? We are going down having spent £150m badly, bar Delap.
I don't think our squad is materially (key word) better than the one got us promoted. Particularly with likely departures and those who will likely stay.
What I take issue with is our fan base just expecting us to be up there. We've pulled off a massive, incredible upset in doing back to back. If McKenna goes I think we'll be back where we've spent 15 of the last 20 years. Scrapping around. [Post edited 9 Mar 21:49]
|
There's little to suggest that we'll be scrapping around for the next 15 to 20 years, that's just your very obvious negative bias. The club is in a much stronger place, not just financially but right through the structure of the club. |  | | |
| Where we are at on 21:59 - Mar 9 with 1316 views | Herbivore |
| Where we are at on 21:47 - Mar 9 by TractorWood |
Not really sure what points of yours I've ignored. You've just said bookies will have us high up, which is true. I understand that we will be up there in the odds at the start of the season. That is right and logical.
Reality? We are going down having spent £150m badly, bar Delap.
I don't think our squad is materially (key word) better than the one got us promoted. Particularly with likely departures and those who will likely stay.
What I take issue with is our fan base just expecting us to be up there. We've pulled off a massive, incredible upset in doing back to back. If McKenna goes I think we'll be back where we've spent 15 of the last 20 years. Scrapping around. [Post edited 9 Mar 21:49]
|
As I said, you're on a negative trip for some reason and that comes across here. Not materially better than last season? I can't agree with that at all, the squad is WAY stronger now than it was. There's nothing to suggest we'll fall away and become a middling Championship side if we go down. And I'll repeat again, nobody is saying the Championship will be a walk in the park but all the evidence suggests that we should be a strong contender coming down from the Prem. | |
| |
| Where we are at on 22:28 - Mar 9 with 1257 views | TractorWood |
| Where we are at on 21:59 - Mar 9 by Herbivore |
As I said, you're on a negative trip for some reason and that comes across here. Not materially better than last season? I can't agree with that at all, the squad is WAY stronger now than it was. There's nothing to suggest we'll fall away and become a middling Championship side if we go down. And I'll repeat again, nobody is saying the Championship will be a walk in the park but all the evidence suggests that we should be a strong contender coming down from the Prem. |
II did say including likely departuers. It's not way stronger if Delap goes. Morsy and Luongo made us tick last time and they'll both be 33/34. Cajuste, Philips and Enciso will all return. Parachutes are amazing but we'll have to fight to not overpay and get them right first time.
Philogene and Clarke are not massively better than Burns and Omari. Imo, perhaps a different debate. Ogbene should help but bad injury.
Taylor and Broadhead both involved peripherally. Both drift in and out of form and impact.
Woolfy looks our best cb at the mo. Johnson would be an asset in championship. Need to get a bit more out of Szmodics but like him.
I applaud your positivity but I just can't see any evidence bar the bookies will fancy us through largely historical pattern.
The massive question is if McKenna goes our DNA will surely change. You'd surely expect wholesale change in playing staff as McKenna favours small technical players who gegen press and recycle the ball. | |
| |
| Where we are at on 22:43 - Mar 9 with 1231 views | Herbivore |
| Where we are at on 22:28 - Mar 9 by TractorWood |
II did say including likely departuers. It's not way stronger if Delap goes. Morsy and Luongo made us tick last time and they'll both be 33/34. Cajuste, Philips and Enciso will all return. Parachutes are amazing but we'll have to fight to not overpay and get them right first time.
Philogene and Clarke are not massively better than Burns and Omari. Imo, perhaps a different debate. Ogbene should help but bad injury.
Taylor and Broadhead both involved peripherally. Both drift in and out of form and impact.
Woolfy looks our best cb at the mo. Johnson would be an asset in championship. Need to get a bit more out of Szmodics but like him.
I applaud your positivity but I just can't see any evidence bar the bookies will fancy us through largely historical pattern.
The massive question is if McKenna goes our DNA will surely change. You'd surely expect wholesale change in playing staff as McKenna favours small technical players who gegen press and recycle the ball. |
Do you not wonder why the bookies will fancy us or why so many relegated sides have ended up in the top 4 or 5 the following season in recent years? It's because parachute payments and a year of Prem money gives those sides a huge advantage over other teams at that level.
Have to agree to disagree on the squad not being stronger. I think arguing it's not is a pretty wild take personally.
And if McKenna does go, it'll be disappointing but it won't kill us. Do you think we're really likely to go for a manager with a totally different philosophy? The way we play isn't that uncommon these days. And most of the other recently relegated sides have changed manager and still competed at the top. [Post edited 10 Mar 7:44]
| |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Where we are at on 22:47 - Mar 9 with 1226 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Could not agree with the post more. 10/10
I have been staggered coming on here this season at times and people acting like the sky is falling down because we are losing (in the most part) tight games against much better teams than we are. Nobody likes losing, I dont like losing, I consider myself far from a 'happy clapper' but it is just about being realistic to where we are at as a club, and frankly that is a bit ahead of schedule and probably not fully ready for the Prem yet. I think McKenna has tried everything to find a formula to turn those losses to draws/draws in to wins (despite some suggesting he doesn't tweak) but when it comes down to it. We just dont have that extra bit of individual quality and experience to get over the line. Frustrating but understandable.
As for next season, I haven't actually see anyone say we will walk the championship but make no mistake we will be THE most attractive club to join outside of the premier league with or without McKenna (hopefully with). When was the last time we could say that. We have the base of a really strong and proven championship squad and we will likely be watching our team compete at the top of the division again.
Let's just embrace these last 10 games for what they are and see what happens. Ready to go again next year. [Post edited 9 Mar 23:03]
|  |
| |
| Where we are at on 23:00 - Mar 9 with 1205 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Where we are at on 21:47 - Mar 9 by TractorWood |
Not really sure what points of yours I've ignored. You've just said bookies will have us high up, which is true. I understand that we will be up there in the odds at the start of the season. That is right and logical.
Reality? We are going down having spent £150m badly, bar Delap.
I don't think our squad is materially (key word) better than the one got us promoted. Particularly with likely departures and those who will likely stay.
What I take issue with is our fan base just expecting us to be up there. We've pulled off a massive, incredible upset in doing back to back. If McKenna goes I think we'll be back where we've spent 15 of the last 20 years. Scrapping around. [Post edited 9 Mar 21:49]
|
The fanbase expecting us to be up there isn't really that worth taking an issue of ?
We are likely to be 1 of only 3 teams with parachute money, the other 2 not being run the best. With a squad of players who are proven top level championship players and have also played a full season in the premier league having in the most part performed pretty well against much better teams. It is completely logical that we will be fighting at the top end of the champ.
If we aren't then something has gone pretty wrong. | |
| |
| Where we are at on 23:13 - Mar 9 with 1183 views | StNeotsBlue |
| Where we are at on 22:28 - Mar 9 by TractorWood |
II did say including likely departuers. It's not way stronger if Delap goes. Morsy and Luongo made us tick last time and they'll both be 33/34. Cajuste, Philips and Enciso will all return. Parachutes are amazing but we'll have to fight to not overpay and get them right first time.
Philogene and Clarke are not massively better than Burns and Omari. Imo, perhaps a different debate. Ogbene should help but bad injury.
Taylor and Broadhead both involved peripherally. Both drift in and out of form and impact.
Woolfy looks our best cb at the mo. Johnson would be an asset in championship. Need to get a bit more out of Szmodics but like him.
I applaud your positivity but I just can't see any evidence bar the bookies will fancy us through largely historical pattern.
The massive question is if McKenna goes our DNA will surely change. You'd surely expect wholesale change in playing staff as McKenna favours small technical players who gegen press and recycle the ball. |
If we do go down the squad should be pretty strong for the Championship, look at the Coventry game where we'd made 10 changes. Coventry have won 9 of their last 10 games in the league. |  | | |
| Where we are at on 07:23 - Mar 10 with 1015 views | PioneerBlue |
I like this thread. I must have now blocked all the voices that I don’t need to hear from! 10 games to go, plenty to work towards, the wins have been so few there is a real chance of achieving a back to back and breaking some ground on our way out of this league. Points to gain, player development to continue, learnings to take into next season no matter what league. If it is inevitable that we end in the champ next season, there is work to do this summer, manager and coach change is a possibly, and for players some sales are expected but we will start from a strong base, still reorg is on the horizon to ensure we’ve got the right quality, depth and cohesiveness for a title shot, we know the Champ is a hard slog.
Striker and Midfield will be important areas of focus, that we know, what we don’t know is who else gets sold/ leaves.
Muric
Burgess
DOS
Leif
Mass
Omari
Delap
If we can minimise squad churn for a summer and not have to wait until Aug to conclude transfer business we could be in a strong position to start the new season. |  |
| |
| Where we are at on 07:42 - Mar 10 with 991 views | rfretwell |
| Where we are at on 18:36 - Mar 9 by BarcaBlue |
Both Leicester and Southampton will be looking for new managers you'd feel. Important we can hold on to McKenna as the players he's brought in seem very much in his style and the continuity / development should stand us in good stead if / when we go down.
I don't think it's quite clear yet which players we'll lose, and which we'll try to move on. Delap seems to be the only one we can really be sure of at the moment. |
Delap won't want to leave his best mate Slicker. They love playing wall golf against each other in their flat. To be fair Delap is brilliant at it! | | | |
| Where we are at on 09:07 - Mar 10 with 948 views | itfcjoe |
Yep, we are the 18th best team in the league - I think with even a smidgeon more luck we could be 7 or 8 points better off......but the reality is had Wolves not totally shat the bed we'd be 17 points from safety rather than 7 such is the levels between the squads.
We've made a few errors in the market, most notably in the Goalkeeping department which felt a ticking time bomb with both VH and CW OOC last summer and we tried to go early and it has really hurt us. We didn't get the momentum when we needed it at the start of the season with not being able to turn a Fulham, Villa, Leicester, Man U game at home from1 point into 3 when all could have gone that way.
The right hand side has really hurt us - Axel being injured 3 times now, Johnson not looking right for the RB spot, Godfrey coming in to cover and looking hopeless there, Burns and Ogbene as uniquely profiled players getting awful injuries. Funnily that is an area where we did target PL experienced players [CO, BJ & BG] and none have been any better than the 'Championship All Stars' elsewhere on the pitch some are now criticising us for!
Missing Szmodics and Chaplin and their experience has really hurt too
We've been very competitive, and all our players and signings will be far better for this experience - we've seen that Jack Clarke has now finally got to grips at this level as an example.
There will be some churn in the summer, just have to hope that if McKenna is one of those then it is done early so we can hit the ground running for the start of pre season one way or another. |  |
| |
| Where we are at on 09:41 - Mar 10 with 908 views | itfcjoe |
| Where we are at on 18:21 - Mar 9 by TractorWood |
There is a seismic difference between be up there in the odds market at the start of the season and our fan base expecting it. You know this but are conveniently ignoring. Lots of happy clappers talk about entitlement in the fan base.
This is entitlement in plain sight. Anyone who thinks in March we are just going be in the mix next year because we are massive in a league where our otherwise best effort is basically scraping playoffs once a decade has probably forgotten the 20 years of drawing with Wednesday et al. I certainly haven't. |
What do you want fans to think then?
That everyone who knows about football will put us as one of the overwhelming favourites to go up but fans should think that anything above 12th is a good season?
The pressure will be well and truly on, promotion will be the goal and falling short will be a failure in nearly all circumstances | |
| |
| Where we are at on 09:41 - Mar 10 with 908 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Where we are at on 22:28 - Mar 9 by TractorWood |
II did say including likely departuers. It's not way stronger if Delap goes. Morsy and Luongo made us tick last time and they'll both be 33/34. Cajuste, Philips and Enciso will all return. Parachutes are amazing but we'll have to fight to not overpay and get them right first time.
Philogene and Clarke are not massively better than Burns and Omari. Imo, perhaps a different debate. Ogbene should help but bad injury.
Taylor and Broadhead both involved peripherally. Both drift in and out of form and impact.
Woolfy looks our best cb at the mo. Johnson would be an asset in championship. Need to get a bit more out of Szmodics but like him.
I applaud your positivity but I just can't see any evidence bar the bookies will fancy us through largely historical pattern.
The massive question is if McKenna goes our DNA will surely change. You'd surely expect wholesale change in playing staff as McKenna favours small technical players who gegen press and recycle the ball. |
We didn't have Delap, Cajuste, Phillips or Enciso last season though. Other than Delap, we have no idea who will leave if we go down, we can only speculate. I'd say Tuanzebe, O'Shea, Omari, Davis are the only other possible departures we would be bothered about. None of the others are getting another PL move. We are going to want to keep the bulk of this squad together though and I can't see all of them leaving. But even if they did, we would be recruiting at a level well above where we were recruiting in the summer of 2023.
We need to recruit in the centre of midfield and we would need to replace Delap but other than that we have a squad packed full of players have been unequivocally huge successes at Championship level. The likes of Clarke, Philogene, Greaves, Ogbene, Szmodics will be excellent in that division. | | | |
| Where we are at on 09:46 - Mar 10 with 874 views | textbackup |
| Where we are at on 09:41 - Mar 10 by tractorboy1978 |
We didn't have Delap, Cajuste, Phillips or Enciso last season though. Other than Delap, we have no idea who will leave if we go down, we can only speculate. I'd say Tuanzebe, O'Shea, Omari, Davis are the only other possible departures we would be bothered about. None of the others are getting another PL move. We are going to want to keep the bulk of this squad together though and I can't see all of them leaving. But even if they did, we would be recruiting at a level well above where we were recruiting in the summer of 2023.
We need to recruit in the centre of midfield and we would need to replace Delap but other than that we have a squad packed full of players have been unequivocally huge successes at Championship level. The likes of Clarke, Philogene, Greaves, Ogbene, Szmodics will be excellent in that division. |
A little off topic, but am I right in thinking Blackburn played Szmodics as a lone striker, and that’s where he got 25/30 goals from? |  |
| |
| Where we are at on 09:49 - Mar 10 with 859 views | itfcjoe |
| Where we are at on 22:43 - Mar 9 by Herbivore |
Do you not wonder why the bookies will fancy us or why so many relegated sides have ended up in the top 4 or 5 the following season in recent years? It's because parachute payments and a year of Prem money gives those sides a huge advantage over other teams at that level.
Have to agree to disagree on the squad not being stronger. I think arguing it's not is a pretty wild take personally.
And if McKenna does go, it'll be disappointing but it won't kill us. Do you think we're really likely to go for a manager with a totally different philosophy? The way we play isn't that uncommon these days. And most of the other recently relegated sides have changed manager and still competed at the top. [Post edited 10 Mar 7:44]
|
Squad this year vs last year
Hladky, Walton vs Palmer, Walton
Tuanzebe, Clarke vs Tuanzebe, Johnson, Clarke
O'Shea, Woolfenden, Greaves, Burgess vs Woolfenden, Burgess, Edmundson
Davis vs Davis, Townsend
Morsy, Luongo, Taylor vs Morsy, Luongo, Taylor
Ogbene, Burns, Philogene vs Burns, Jackson
Chaplin, Omari vs Chaplin
Broadhead, Clarke, Szmodics vs Broadhead, Harness
Delap, Hirst vs Hirst, Al-Hamadi
It's basically improved in every area, and we'll have money to spend when we go down and access to bring in up to 5 loan players from the PL | |
| |
| Where we are at on 09:54 - Mar 10 with 812 views | portmanking |
| Where we are at on 09:49 - Mar 10 by itfcjoe |
Squad this year vs last year
Hladky, Walton vs Palmer, Walton
Tuanzebe, Clarke vs Tuanzebe, Johnson, Clarke
O'Shea, Woolfenden, Greaves, Burgess vs Woolfenden, Burgess, Edmundson
Davis vs Davis, Townsend
Morsy, Luongo, Taylor vs Morsy, Luongo, Taylor
Ogbene, Burns, Philogene vs Burns, Jackson
Chaplin, Omari vs Chaplin
Broadhead, Clarke, Szmodics vs Broadhead, Harness
Delap, Hirst vs Hirst, Al-Hamadi
It's basically improved in every area, and we'll have money to spend when we go down and access to bring in up to 5 loan players from the PL |
I can't believe anyone would suggest our squad will be *weaker* next year than the 23/24 squad.
That's just ridiculous. We had Jackson, Harness, Ladapo, Ball, Donacien as our back up players in 23/24. None of whom would get a look in with next season's squad (when fully fit).
I think it's worth acknowledging that central midfield will need a major overhaul in the summer, but if we know that, you can be sure McKenna, Ashton and co. will already be locking in their targets if relegation is confirmed. I think if we can add some poise and physicality in the double pivot area, coupled with a similar (ideally better?) version of Hirst, we will be a serious force next year. | | | |
| Where we are at on 09:55 - Mar 10 with 805 views | itfcjoe |
| Where we are at on 09:46 - Mar 10 by textbackup |
A little off topic, but am I right in thinking Blackburn played Szmodics as a lone striker, and that’s where he got 25/30 goals from? |
He mostly played behind Gallagher as a 10 | |
| |
| Where we are at on 09:56 - Mar 10 with 793 views | JakeITFC |
| Where we are at on 09:46 - Mar 10 by textbackup |
A little off topic, but am I right in thinking Blackburn played Szmodics as a lone striker, and that’s where he got 25/30 goals from? |
Played there sometimes but mostly as a second forward (behind Gallagher who we were in for from Blackburn). | | | |
| Where we are at on 10:05 - Mar 10 with 750 views | SomethingBlue |
| Where we are at on 09:54 - Mar 10 by portmanking |
I can't believe anyone would suggest our squad will be *weaker* next year than the 23/24 squad.
That's just ridiculous. We had Jackson, Harness, Ladapo, Ball, Donacien as our back up players in 23/24. None of whom would get a look in with next season's squad (when fully fit).
I think it's worth acknowledging that central midfield will need a major overhaul in the summer, but if we know that, you can be sure McKenna, Ashton and co. will already be locking in their targets if relegation is confirmed. I think if we can add some poise and physicality in the double pivot area, coupled with a similar (ideally better?) version of Hirst, we will be a serious force next year. |
We will be well set – but as you suggest, just how well set depends on exactly who we sign in midfield. We need two very good players in there, but they need to be able to form a winning relationship in the Morsy-Luongo mould very quickly too and that's something of an intangible. If we get that right we should be fine for a serious push at top two, but it's not at all easy. [Post edited 10 Mar 10:05]
| |
| |
| Where we are at on 10:05 - Mar 10 with 739 views | unbelievablue |
| Where we are at on 10:05 - Mar 10 by SomethingBlue |
We will be well set – but as you suggest, just how well set depends on exactly who we sign in midfield. We need two very good players in there, but they need to be able to form a winning relationship in the Morsy-Luongo mould very quickly too and that's something of an intangible. If we get that right we should be fine for a serious push at top two, but it's not at all easy. [Post edited 10 Mar 10:05]
|
Still pretty hopeful we could sign Downes. |  |
| |
| Where we are at on 10:05 - Mar 10 with 738 views | mellowblue |
| Where we are at on 09:56 - Mar 10 by JakeITFC |
Played there sometimes but mostly as a second forward (behind Gallagher who we were in for from Blackburn). |
Correct. I never understood the purchase of Szmodics as he just does not fit the 10 role and was unlikely to get in ahead of Hirst and Delap in the lone role . He is primarily a second striker. He would work a lot better in a 3-5-2 for example. But Mckenna loves 3-1 frontline and will not deviate from it. | | | |
| Where we are at on 10:07 - Mar 10 with 735 views | textbackup |
| Where we are at on 10:05 - Mar 10 by SomethingBlue |
We will be well set – but as you suggest, just how well set depends on exactly who we sign in midfield. We need two very good players in there, but they need to be able to form a winning relationship in the Morsy-Luongo mould very quickly too and that's something of an intangible. If we get that right we should be fine for a serious push at top two, but it's not at all easy. [Post edited 10 Mar 10:05]
|
Could we have one in the building, sort of, ready to go… in Cam Humphries? By all accounts he’s had a hell of a season in L1, and could make that step up (with better players around him) | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
