| Kier starmer only wants 13:39 - Mar 13 with 5219 views | onceablue |
People to like him he comes across as so sad and desperate
He is the most unpopular PM of all time
People who loathe him
Pensioners
Farmers
15,300 NHS England staff.
Anyone trying to achieve good things in life and leave family members and leave inheritance to their family
Business Owners
Polls suggest if there was another election now labour may finish 3rd or even 4th |  | | |  |
| Kier starmer only wants on 15:31 - Mar 13 with 1339 views | NedPlimpton |
You say he only wants people to like him and then list a load of people who you believe loathe him.
Genuine question... Who do you think he is trying to get to like him and what has he done to those people to be liked? |  | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 15:31 - Mar 13 with 1331 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Exactly- if we are talkng well paid people on PAYE they probably are paying a decent wedge. Those who live off their wealth and take their income in lower (or not taxed) ways are not. A billionaire who borrows from a bank against equity they hold to use as a means of income, is most definitely not paying their fair share. | | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 15:43 - Mar 13 with 1286 views | Tonytown |
| Kier starmer only wants on 14:29 - Mar 13 by onceablue |
So how much should the rich pay?
Let’s look at taxes
The current higher tax rate is double the basic rate.
Isn’t double enough for you should it be treble?
You have to let people have ambition to earn more money without penalising them too much.
No ambition no growth |
You are Nigel Farage and I claim £5 | | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 15:59 - Mar 13 with 1233 views | jontysnut |
| Kier starmer only wants on 14:15 - Mar 13 by onceablue |
The wealthiest have always paid their fair share as individuals
That’s why we have a higher tax rate
Those living in bigger houses pay more council tax but don’t receive any more services
Those buying bigger houses pay more stamp duty
Those buying big cars pay more road tax but don’t drive on any better roads than anyone else.
A lot of so called wealthy people have private medical insurance which saves the NHS money
This labour ideal that those with the broadest should bear the brunt like they haven’t been doing this for many years in any case |
The ONS has shown that "the poorest 10% of households paid on average 48% of their income in tax in 2022/23. The richest 10% of households, however, paid on average just 39% of their income in tax. Council tax is a key source of disproportionate taxation, with the poorest 10% paying 7% while the richest 10% pay just 1.2%".
Broad shoulders indeed |  | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 16:04 - Mar 13 with 1224 views | Tonytown |
Utter bilge | | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 16:05 - Mar 13 with 1222 views | Tonytown |
| Kier starmer only wants on 14:15 - Mar 13 by onceablue |
The wealthiest have always paid their fair share as individuals
That’s why we have a higher tax rate
Those living in bigger houses pay more council tax but don’t receive any more services
Those buying bigger houses pay more stamp duty
Those buying big cars pay more road tax but don’t drive on any better roads than anyone else.
A lot of so called wealthy people have private medical insurance which saves the NHS money
This labour ideal that those with the broadest should bear the brunt like they haven’t been doing this for many years in any case |
Are you really this dim?? | | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 16:51 - Mar 13 with 1142 views | positivity |
that's odd, i was sure someone was saying they were 3rd or 4th! | |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 16:53 - Mar 13 with 1134 views | Pinewoodblue |
Possibly also the least likely to vote in next local elections. |  |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 18:33 - Mar 13 with 1042 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Kier starmer only wants on 14:15 - Mar 13 by onceablue |
The wealthiest have always paid their fair share as individuals
That’s why we have a higher tax rate
Those living in bigger houses pay more council tax but don’t receive any more services
Those buying bigger houses pay more stamp duty
Those buying big cars pay more road tax but don’t drive on any better roads than anyone else.
A lot of so called wealthy people have private medical insurance which saves the NHS money
This labour ideal that those with the broadest should bear the brunt like they haven’t been doing this for many years in any case |
I’m afraid you fail to understand how the wealthiest don’t always pay their fair share of tax. It helps to define what “fair share” means. I would define it as people paying an equivalent overall personal tax rate. So, irrespective of income, everyone should be paying roughly the same %age - say 20%. That seems fair to me (and generous to the rich, who could afford to pay a higher rate).
Now, in response to a couple of your points and how personal tax rates aren’t always equal (or “fair”)::
1. Higher tax rate. You mean income tax rate here. One of the key things about tax is where the money comes from. For high salary earners being paid through PAYE they do pay a higher rate, and will have high personal tax rates as a result. They are paying their fair share (arguably more than their fair share). But a lot of wealthy people don’t get their income from a salary. Investments and capital gains are taxed at a lower rates, meaning someone whose income comes from these sources is likely to end up with a personal tax rate below that of someone on the minimum wage. And the wealthy can afford offshore holdings in low/no tax regimes.
3. Stamp duty. There are loopholes that allow people to gift all or part of the value of a house. This is a common tactic used to buy houses for kids or other family members. Gifting helps minimise tax in other ways too (e.g. by reducing the value of one’s estate thereby reducing later inheritance tax liabilities). This is pretty minor (as are you examples of council tax and medical insurance. The main one is income). |  |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 18:35 - Mar 13 with 1029 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Kier starmer only wants on 16:05 - Mar 13 by Tonytown |
Are you really this dim?? |
‘Poorly informed’ would be better, but yes unfortunately. | |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 18:58 - Mar 13 with 992 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Your list suddenly has me liking him more. |  |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 19:39 - Mar 13 with 939 views | Ryorry |
| Kier starmer only wants on 13:45 - Mar 13 by Mullet |
Blimey that’s a lot of right wing propaganda nonsense.
Maggie was ousted by her own party for a start, let alone being hated by most decent folk. Anyone who doesn’t hate what the last 4 or 5 Tories did needs their head examining too.
You’ve just listed massive groups of people with no evidence or subtly at all. The “farmers” most affected by this government aren’t even real farmers, they’re land barons who wanted a tax dodge and have got caught out. They’re the ones driving up the price of land and trying to drag more people in to having pay.
Whilst I don’t agree with everything this guy says the gist of it is fairly good. Have a read and let me know why he’s so wrong. |
“The “farmers” most affected by this government aren’t even real farmers”.
Untrue if you mean the farmers *worst* affected, who will be the small/medium genuinely family farms, many of whom will have to sell land to pay their new IHT bill, rendering them uneconomical. The most likely buyers of those parcels of land will be the large, corporate farms who profit from economies of scale. |  |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 19:51 - Mar 13 with 916 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Kier starmer only wants on 19:39 - Mar 13 by Ryorry |
“The “farmers” most affected by this government aren’t even real farmers”.
Untrue if you mean the farmers *worst* affected, who will be the small/medium genuinely family farms, many of whom will have to sell land to pay their new IHT bill, rendering them uneconomical. The most likely buyers of those parcels of land will be the large, corporate farms who profit from economies of scale. |
small farms wont be affected at all. Only ones worth millions. | | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:00 - Mar 13 with 895 views | Ryorry |
Just for the record, I’m a pensioner living in a farming community, and I don’t “loathe” KS in the slightest.
I did however loathe the corrupt, lazy, greedy, incompetent, selfish, amoral, uncaring, serially lying Johnson though. And Truss. You? | |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 20:03 - Mar 13 with 877 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Kier starmer only wants on 14:22 - Mar 13 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
Not kink-shaming you onceablue, but surely these incessant posts where you're roundly mocked has got to be a humiliation fetish? |
You are kink-shaming them.
And they love it! | | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:09 - Mar 13 with 866 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Kier starmer only wants on 19:39 - Mar 13 by Ryorry |
“The “farmers” most affected by this government aren’t even real farmers”.
Untrue if you mean the farmers *worst* affected, who will be the small/medium genuinely family farms, many of whom will have to sell land to pay their new IHT bill, rendering them uneconomical. The most likely buyers of those parcels of land will be the large, corporate farms who profit from economies of scale. |
I suspect in reality the impact isn’t going to be significant for anyone with at least an average sized farm. With the standard IHT allowances for a farm owned by a couple, the farms would need to be worth over £3M before any IHT is payable. That’s well over average size. And even then, any IHT is only at 20% rather than the normal 40%. And then the beneficiaries will be able to pay any IHT in instalments over 10 years.
The new rules are still very generous compared to the rest of us. Obviously it’s not as generous as now though, so the outrage is understandable. | |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 20:12 - Mar 13 with 861 views | Ryorry |
| Kier starmer only wants on 19:51 - Mar 13 by redrickstuhaart |
small farms wont be affected at all. Only ones worth millions. |
A small farm of 100 acres is worth a million.
It’s the value of their land - which some people seem unable to grasp is their *business asset*, not a luxury they can sell. No land, no business. No other business has to pay IHT on their *business* assets.
Anyway, this specific topic has been discussed twice before and I don’t want to derail the thread. | |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 20:16 - Mar 13 with 850 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:12 - Mar 13 by Ryorry |
A small farm of 100 acres is worth a million.
It’s the value of their land - which some people seem unable to grasp is their *business asset*, not a luxury they can sell. No land, no business. No other business has to pay IHT on their *business* assets.
Anyway, this specific topic has been discussed twice before and I don’t want to derail the thread. |
I fully understand. I have seen many farms accounts. Most are heavily leveraged because rather than paying tax, they plough the money into more land with secured loans.
They are mostly capable, I suggest, of doing similar to pay an IHT bill. The idea that you can just pass down a multi million pound asset without the tax that everyone else pays when passing such a business on, is clearly problematic (on the assumption you agree with inheritance tax at all- which is another debate).
A married farming couple can pass on 3m before they pay anythign at all. They can also gift / tax plan etc. | | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:26 - Mar 13 with 834 views | Ryorry |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:16 - Mar 13 by redrickstuhaart |
I fully understand. I have seen many farms accounts. Most are heavily leveraged because rather than paying tax, they plough the money into more land with secured loans.
They are mostly capable, I suggest, of doing similar to pay an IHT bill. The idea that you can just pass down a multi million pound asset without the tax that everyone else pays when passing such a business on, is clearly problematic (on the assumption you agree with inheritance tax at all- which is another debate).
A married farming couple can pass on 3m before they pay anythign at all. They can also gift / tax plan etc. |
Many farmers are single (or widowed unfortunately). Yer average medium sized farm is probably c. 350? acres (can’t remember exact figure). I’m sure you can see the problem; and we should all be concerned about losing the smaller farms, esp the mixed ones, to the larger corporate ones which favour monocultures and their profits over biodiversity and the environment. | |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 20:28 - Mar 13 with 829 views | Mullet |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:12 - Mar 13 by Ryorry |
A small farm of 100 acres is worth a million.
It’s the value of their land - which some people seem unable to grasp is their *business asset*, not a luxury they can sell. No land, no business. No other business has to pay IHT on their *business* assets.
Anyway, this specific topic has been discussed twice before and I don’t want to derail the thread. |
The drive against it is driven by the land barons like Clarkson and Lowe who are the ones driving up the price of farmland - the misinformation and knock on effect of the IHT is the problem. Not the tax itself.
It’s ironic that Brexit has done more to damage the industry than this ever could. |  |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 20:29 - Mar 13 with 823 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:26 - Mar 13 by Ryorry |
Many farmers are single (or widowed unfortunately). Yer average medium sized farm is probably c. 350? acres (can’t remember exact figure). I’m sure you can see the problem; and we should all be concerned about losing the smaller farms, esp the mixed ones, to the larger corporate ones which favour monocultures and their profits over biodiversity and the environment. |
If I inherited a £4m asset, I would be happy enough to pay 300k tax on it, mortgaged over 25 years. | | | |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:30 - Mar 13 with 816 views | J2BLUE |
| Kier starmer only wants on 14:15 - Mar 13 by onceablue |
The wealthiest have always paid their fair share as individuals
That’s why we have a higher tax rate
Those living in bigger houses pay more council tax but don’t receive any more services
Those buying bigger houses pay more stamp duty
Those buying big cars pay more road tax but don’t drive on any better roads than anyone else.
A lot of so called wealthy people have private medical insurance which saves the NHS money
This labour ideal that those with the broadest should bear the brunt like they haven’t been doing this for many years in any case |
'We'. lol |  |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 20:40 - Mar 13 with 792 views | Ryorry |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:28 - Mar 13 by Mullet |
The drive against it is driven by the land barons like Clarkson and Lowe who are the ones driving up the price of farmland - the misinformation and knock on effect of the IHT is the problem. Not the tax itself.
It’s ironic that Brexit has done more to damage the industry than this ever could. |
Agree with your first paragraph.
There are much better ways to tackle that problem though, than making the small/medium family farm owners feel that they would have to sell up (as I’ve heard many say); some outlined on here by a poster who’s himself a farmer.
I’ve also outlined alternatives like covenances on land stipulating it cay only be used for agriculture; fit and proper person requirements (eg only those currently engaged in agricultural work can buy or rent it etc.) | |
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| Kier starmer only wants on 20:42 - Mar 13 with 788 views | itfcjoe |
| Kier starmer only wants on 20:12 - Mar 13 by Ryorry |
A small farm of 100 acres is worth a million.
It’s the value of their land - which some people seem unable to grasp is their *business asset*, not a luxury they can sell. No land, no business. No other business has to pay IHT on their *business* assets.
Anyway, this specific topic has been discussed twice before and I don’t want to derail the thread. |
Well they can hand the business down to their children early, like any other family business would have to do to not pay IHT. |  |
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