| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? 13:57 - Mar 21 with 5230 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Surely it would be standard practice for critical infrastructure, a global aviation hub. Seems very odd for the generators to be situated the same place the fire broke out!
Will be a chaotic and expensive 48 hours. |  | | |  |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:06 - Mar 21 with 3314 views | WicklowBlue |
On the radio this morning they explained LHR does have generators to keep ATC, runways and lights etc working.
But LHR is a sprawl of buildings and facilities with not much natural light and generators would not keep the terminals, check in desks and other passenger facilities running.
The commentator was more damming in that there was a single point of failure and that like most infrastructure in the UK was run on a shoestring budget. (Their words not mine) |  | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:09 - Mar 21 with 3297 views | Churchman |
Given the chronic lack of investment in everything I’m kind of not surprised. Airline capacity in this country has been maxed out for years. Nobody is interested. Nobody sees it as important, yet if you are serious about growing an economy, a sure fire way of doing it is investing in infrastructure - as opposed to the Reeves method of crippling business.
The big laugh is to be had on the BBC report where somebody said the back up worked perfectly, but lacked the capacity to run the airport. So it isn’t a back up is it, ya dope!!! How thick can you get?
How an international airport can be run like the shed on Cape Verde is beyond me. Perhaps if all the additional costs caused by this were totted up and applied to those responsible and Heathrow airport they might be a little more interested.
If they don’t know what back up is, they can always go to just about any decent airport in the world and find out, if they can find anywhere to fly from. |  | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:28 - Mar 21 with 3234 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:06 - Mar 21 by WicklowBlue |
On the radio this morning they explained LHR does have generators to keep ATC, runways and lights etc working.
But LHR is a sprawl of buildings and facilities with not much natural light and generators would not keep the terminals, check in desks and other passenger facilities running.
The commentator was more damming in that there was a single point of failure and that like most infrastructure in the UK was run on a shoestring budget. (Their words not mine) |
A single point of failure is mental. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:44 - Mar 21 with 3187 views | itfc_bucks |
Heathrow uses as much electricity as a small town.
Backup generators wouldn't touch the sides of the demand. |  | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:54 - Mar 21 with 3120 views | Churchman |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:44 - Mar 21 by itfc_bucks |
Heathrow uses as much electricity as a small town.
Backup generators wouldn't touch the sides of the demand. |
I’m sure every major airport in the world and many smaller ones have a form of back up. If we could back up a radar system that was being bombed 85 years ago in WW2, I’m sure providing a little bit of back up leccy if necessary isn’t the hardest thing in the world to do.
You’d have thought given the potential cost there would have been some sort of contingency planning for something so vital, but nah, good old on the cheap Britain. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:54 - Mar 21 with 3113 views | DarkBrandon |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:44 - Mar 21 by itfc_bucks |
Heathrow uses as much electricity as a small town.
Backup generators wouldn't touch the sides of the demand. |
I’ve got a charging bank they could use if that’s any help to them. I can charge up my phone 5-6 times with that baby [Post edited 21 Mar 14:55]
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:55 - Mar 21 with 3104 views | TresBonne |
We got water, we got cups, we got coffee, we got receipts, we got sugar - but we got no power.
The lord in his almighty wisdom has decided to take the power from us, so me got no choice but to close, EARLY! |  | | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:59 - Mar 21 with 3079 views | EuanTown |
Good job these sort of things are tested to see if they work. You would not want the ruskies getting wind of how to bring old blighty to its knees would you. |  | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:00 - Mar 21 with 3075 views | Guthrum |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:06 - Mar 21 by WicklowBlue |
On the radio this morning they explained LHR does have generators to keep ATC, runways and lights etc working.
But LHR is a sprawl of buildings and facilities with not much natural light and generators would not keep the terminals, check in desks and other passenger facilities running.
The commentator was more damming in that there was a single point of failure and that like most infrastructure in the UK was run on a shoestring budget. (Their words not mine) |
Redundancy of systems is expensive, twice the infrastructure requirement. Is that justified for something which, while massively inconvenient, doesn't threaten human lives or national security? |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:07 - Mar 21 with 3021 views | Guthrum |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:59 - Mar 21 by EuanTown |
Good job these sort of things are tested to see if they work. You would not want the ruskies getting wind of how to bring old blighty to its knees would you. |
It was probably the Russians blew up the sub-station, given their recent sabotage shenanigans in Europe.
Plus it's hard to test failure in a system which has to be kept running 24/7. | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:11 - Mar 21 with 2952 views | Churchman |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:00 - Mar 21 by Guthrum |
Redundancy of systems is expensive, twice the infrastructure requirement. Is that justified for something which, while massively inconvenient, doesn't threaten human lives or national security? |
Sky: The financial loss could be in the region of "hundreds of millions of pounds", according to the founder of Endau Analytics, an aviation industry advisory firm.
How much does it cost to put contingency infrastructure in? After all, it’s coming off a grid isn’t it? If you just bury your head in the sand as we are world leaders at, you are still left with the problem, even after they’ve put a new bit of B&Q fuse wire in and invested in a small fire blanket from Poundland. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:38 - Mar 21 with 2814 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
Was supposed to fly this morning, hoping tomorrow. It's beyond comprehension that Heathrow doesn't have a back up power source |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:46 - Mar 21 with 2764 views | Guthrum |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:11 - Mar 21 by Churchman |
Sky: The financial loss could be in the region of "hundreds of millions of pounds", according to the founder of Endau Analytics, an aviation industry advisory firm.
How much does it cost to put contingency infrastructure in? After all, it’s coming off a grid isn’t it? If you just bury your head in the sand as we are world leaders at, you are still left with the problem, even after they’ve put a new bit of B&Q fuse wire in and invested in a small fire blanket from Poundland. |
I doubt electric sub-stations and associated infrastructure come cheap. A lot of those hundreds of millions will be covered by insurance, whereas system redundancy must be paid for by the operator. Particularly troublesome where something has grown massively over time, like Heathrow*.
Given that nobody actually wants to pay for anything - particularly taxes - it shouldn't be a surprise we go for the (notionally) cheap option.
* See also the Houses of Parliament, which are likely to burn down (again), flood or be overrun by vermin at any time. | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:47 - Mar 21 with 2763 views | Nutkins_Return |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:06 - Mar 21 by WicklowBlue |
On the radio this morning they explained LHR does have generators to keep ATC, runways and lights etc working.
But LHR is a sprawl of buildings and facilities with not much natural light and generators would not keep the terminals, check in desks and other passenger facilities running.
The commentator was more damming in that there was a single point of failure and that like most infrastructure in the UK was run on a shoestring budget. (Their words not mine) |
Playing devil's advocate here a bit but as someone said below, we are not talking about a small amount of back-up power here. Where is the money coming from in the current climate?
It's clearly fairly critical infrastructure from a commercial point of view and the fact they will have it up and running in 24-48hrs is still quite impressive.
You can't just have money to back everything up 100%. It will be largely backed-up for the critical things to bring planes down safely etc but not everything else. It would be hundreds of millions we don't have.
We always seem to expect as a society that everything works perfectly all the time and nothing goes wrong. If it does it's scandalous. | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:47 - Mar 21 with 2758 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:07 - Mar 21 by Guthrum |
It was probably the Russians blew up the sub-station, given their recent sabotage shenanigans in Europe.
Plus it's hard to test failure in a system which has to be kept running 24/7. |
Very, very likely that this was more "chaos and disruption" on the day that one of the UK newspapers had "Starmer threatens Putin" as it's headline.
Along with a Russian ship's Captain smacking into a barge carrying NATO/USAF fuel supplies, anchors from Russian and Chinese ships "accidentally" snapping power lines and internet connections, remote railway substations catching fire across Europe, Ukrainian owned businesses being firebombed etc etc.
The question that I am asking is whether Heathrow could have remained open, but that it was actually closed on security grounds because of the fear of, or even intelligence suggesting, additional asymmetric attacks which would have jeopardised safety. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:49 - Mar 21 with 2747 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:47 - Mar 21 by Nutkins_Return |
Playing devil's advocate here a bit but as someone said below, we are not talking about a small amount of back-up power here. Where is the money coming from in the current climate?
It's clearly fairly critical infrastructure from a commercial point of view and the fact they will have it up and running in 24-48hrs is still quite impressive.
You can't just have money to back everything up 100%. It will be largely backed-up for the critical things to bring planes down safely etc but not everything else. It would be hundreds of millions we don't have.
We always seem to expect as a society that everything works perfectly all the time and nothing goes wrong. If it does it's scandalous. |
There is nothing impressive about this, trust me. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:52 - Mar 21 with 2736 views | Parky |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 14:55 - Mar 21 by TresBonne |
We got water, we got cups, we got coffee, we got receipts, we got sugar - but we got no power.
The lord in his almighty wisdom has decided to take the power from us, so me got no choice but to close, EARLY! |
Give me oil in my lamp, keep me burning, give me oil in my lamp, I pray | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:00 - Mar 21 with 2708 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:46 - Mar 21 by Guthrum |
I doubt electric sub-stations and associated infrastructure come cheap. A lot of those hundreds of millions will be covered by insurance, whereas system redundancy must be paid for by the operator. Particularly troublesome where something has grown massively over time, like Heathrow*.
Given that nobody actually wants to pay for anything - particularly taxes - it shouldn't be a surprise we go for the (notionally) cheap option.
* See also the Houses of Parliament, which are likely to burn down (again), flood or be overrun by vermin at any time. |
It's the 4th largest international hub in the world. Heathrow sneezes, global aviation catches a cold. Nearly every large international airport has generators on site. A fire at a substation should not cause a full closure if it's a power issue. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:03 - Mar 21 with 2690 views | NeedhamChris |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:07 - Mar 21 by Guthrum |
It was probably the Russians blew up the sub-station, given their recent sabotage shenanigans in Europe.
Plus it's hard to test failure in a system which has to be kept running 24/7. |
Think we should wait for some evidence before making accusations like those in the first paragraph around, albeit something we should definitely be investigating. [Post edited 21 Mar 16:05]
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:04 - Mar 21 with 2677 views | NeedhamChris |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:52 - Mar 21 by Parky |
Give me oil in my lamp, keep me burning, give me oil in my lamp, I pray |
That was an expected flashback to primary school assembly | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:12 - Mar 21 with 2616 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:03 - Mar 21 by NeedhamChris |
Think we should wait for some evidence before making accusations like those in the first paragraph around, albeit something we should definitely be investigating. [Post edited 21 Mar 16:05]
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Please don't play the "Putin is innocent until he is proven Guilty in a Court of Law" card!
It's a perfectly reasonable hypothesis, given that he promised "Chaos and Disruption" for the European nations that supported Ukraine with weapons. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:16 - Mar 21 with 2598 views | giant_stow |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:03 - Mar 21 by NeedhamChris |
Think we should wait for some evidence before making accusations like those in the first paragraph around, albeit something we should definitely be investigating. [Post edited 21 Mar 16:05]
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If initial & obvious suspicions are proved false, I'm sure Putin will dry his eyes eventually. |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:36 - Mar 21 with 2530 views | Steve_M |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:12 - Mar 21 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Please don't play the "Putin is innocent until he is proven Guilty in a Court of Law" card!
It's a perfectly reasonable hypothesis, given that he promised "Chaos and Disruption" for the European nations that supported Ukraine with weapons. |
Yes, exactly. Given recent events across Europe then as likely sabotage as not.
Which is rather worrying as so much of our infrastructure is not built with that kind of malicious threat in mind. |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:51 - Mar 21 with 2468 views | NeedhamChris |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:12 - Mar 21 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Please don't play the "Putin is innocent until he is proven Guilty in a Court of Law" card!
It's a perfectly reasonable hypothesis, given that he promised "Chaos and Disruption" for the European nations that supported Ukraine with weapons. |
Please don't play the "I read your post and it wasn't dramatic enough for me so I'm going to respond to the argument I want to have rather than what was posted" card either.
I've said nothing about a court of law. Just some evidence. | |
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