| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? 13:57 - Mar 21 with 5729 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Surely it would be standard practice for critical infrastructure, a global aviation hub. Seems very odd for the generators to be situated the same place the fire broke out!
Will be a chaotic and expensive 48 hours. |  | | |  |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:55 - Mar 21 with 1380 views | NeedhamChris |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:16 - Mar 21 by giant_stow |
If initial & obvious suspicions are proved false, I'm sure Putin will dry his eyes eventually. |
This place is mad.
Suggest Delap might have been bought with RW in mind, or that McKenna was expected to get promotion in his first full season - you need an evidence base otherwise your view is torn apart.
Suggest the Russians have launched a state sponsored attack on Heathrow Airport - nah that's fair game and no evidence required.
Bonkers. |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 17:10 - Mar 21 with 1341 views | Steve_M |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:55 - Mar 21 by NeedhamChris |
This place is mad.
Suggest Delap might have been bought with RW in mind, or that McKenna was expected to get promotion in his first full season - you need an evidence base otherwise your view is torn apart.
Suggest the Russians have launched a state sponsored attack on Heathrow Airport - nah that's fair game and no evidence required.
Bonkers. |
Question for you, do you accept that Russia has attacked infrastructure, and Ikea stores, across Europe over the last year or so? |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 17:13 - Mar 21 with 1317 views | NeedhamChris |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 17:10 - Mar 21 by Steve_M |
Question for you, do you accept that Russia has attacked infrastructure, and Ikea stores, across Europe over the last year or so? |
Yes, unquestionably and without a shadow of doubt.
Not sure how that relates to my point though - I although I sense (understandably) that this question was more about working out if I'm a Putin/Russia apologist than it was to engage with my point. I can assure you I am not. | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 17:17 - Mar 21 with 1291 views | giant_stow |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:55 - Mar 21 by NeedhamChris |
This place is mad.
Suggest Delap might have been bought with RW in mind, or that McKenna was expected to get promotion in his first full season - you need an evidence base otherwise your view is torn apart.
Suggest the Russians have launched a state sponsored attack on Heathrow Airport - nah that's fair game and no evidence required.
Bonkers. |
I'm a little baffled by your bafflement, but not to worry. |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 17:34 - Mar 21 with 1239 views | Guthrum |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:00 - Mar 21 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
It's the 4th largest international hub in the world. Heathrow sneezes, global aviation catches a cold. Nearly every large international airport has generators on site. A fire at a substation should not cause a full closure if it's a power issue. |
I'm sure they have generators/backups to keep ATC and the vital safety kit running. But all the other stuff (lightng, computers, air con, catering, etc.) is going to be drawing a huge amount of power on top of that. It's the size of a small town.
There's also the matter of staff and passenger safety. Are you going to let people into a facility operating on limited backup power? Do you want thousands of people turning up if services are cutailed? |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 17:37 - Mar 21 with 1239 views | Guthrum |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:03 - Mar 21 by NeedhamChris |
Think we should wait for some evidence before making accusations like those in the first paragraph around, albeit something we should definitely be investigating. [Post edited 21 Mar 16:05]
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It was half tongue-in-cheek.
Tho there has been a lot of that going on recently, in Poland, Lithuania and Germany. | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 17:52 - Mar 21 with 1207 views | Churchman |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:46 - Mar 21 by Guthrum |
I doubt electric sub-stations and associated infrastructure come cheap. A lot of those hundreds of millions will be covered by insurance, whereas system redundancy must be paid for by the operator. Particularly troublesome where something has grown massively over time, like Heathrow*.
Given that nobody actually wants to pay for anything - particularly taxes - it shouldn't be a surprise we go for the (notionally) cheap option.
* See also the Houses of Parliament, which are likely to burn down (again), flood or be overrun by vermin at any time. |
The Houses of Parliament are 180 years old, were actually cheaply built (not the adornments), not fit for purpose and would have been pulled down 100 years ago but for the iconic appearance. Parliament can actually sit anywhere as the plans made for emptying the place showed when various rebuild schemes were proposed.
Heathrow is the key airport in this country for people and high value freight. If you have a sprawling airport, all the more reason to contingency plan. Other countries manage it. We don’t or just can’t be ars’d.
The cheap option is always the more expensive option. Take roads. Full of holes because a bit of jollop in the autumn when the last bit of jollop disintegrates will do. Forget building properly. It’ll do.
You can do anything if you want to including contingency plan vital infrastructure. Amazing how quickly Lord Khan’s speed cameras went up when he managed to con politicians into accepting his congestion charge zone extension. Overnight. Literally and the Khan cash register was ringing in days - wonder where the money goes?
Sorry, I don’t buy any excuses for Heathrow’s brought on themselves catastrophe. A lot of people have lost a lot of money due to neglect and incompetence.
Everyone knows how important that airport is, especially as it’s taken nearly 60 years to not build a sorely needed additional one - see 1960s Roskill Commission. [Post edited 21 Mar 17:56]
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 18:10 - Mar 21 with 1166 views | WicklowBlue |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 17:52 - Mar 21 by Churchman |
The Houses of Parliament are 180 years old, were actually cheaply built (not the adornments), not fit for purpose and would have been pulled down 100 years ago but for the iconic appearance. Parliament can actually sit anywhere as the plans made for emptying the place showed when various rebuild schemes were proposed.
Heathrow is the key airport in this country for people and high value freight. If you have a sprawling airport, all the more reason to contingency plan. Other countries manage it. We don’t or just can’t be ars’d.
The cheap option is always the more expensive option. Take roads. Full of holes because a bit of jollop in the autumn when the last bit of jollop disintegrates will do. Forget building properly. It’ll do.
You can do anything if you want to including contingency plan vital infrastructure. Amazing how quickly Lord Khan’s speed cameras went up when he managed to con politicians into accepting his congestion charge zone extension. Overnight. Literally and the Khan cash register was ringing in days - wonder where the money goes?
Sorry, I don’t buy any excuses for Heathrow’s brought on themselves catastrophe. A lot of people have lost a lot of money due to neglect and incompetence.
Everyone knows how important that airport is, especially as it’s taken nearly 60 years to not build a sorely needed additional one - see 1960s Roskill Commission. [Post edited 21 Mar 17:56]
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No expert in energy grids, but presumably routing a backup connection to the grid from another substation would be feasible? I presume there are other substations the could fit the bill?
Either way designing critical systems/infrastructure without redundancy plans is poor planning.
Edit: which is something Ireland does exceptionally well...poor planning. [Post edited 21 Mar 18:11]
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 18:18 - Mar 21 with 1133 views | OldFart71 |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:46 - Mar 21 by Guthrum |
I doubt electric sub-stations and associated infrastructure come cheap. A lot of those hundreds of millions will be covered by insurance, whereas system redundancy must be paid for by the operator. Particularly troublesome where something has grown massively over time, like Heathrow*.
Given that nobody actually wants to pay for anything - particularly taxes - it shouldn't be a surprise we go for the (notionally) cheap option.
* See also the Houses of Parliament, which are likely to burn down (again), flood or be overrun by vermin at any time. |
It's overrun by vermin already with two legs. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 18:24 - Mar 21 with 1113 views | Churchman |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 18:18 - Mar 21 by OldFart71 |
It's overrun by vermin already with two legs. |
Agree. Perhaps get rid of them and keep the rats and mice. They can’t do any worse and would save the hard working taxpayer a heck of a lot of money too. They could also replace the mouldering fossils in the HoL. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 18:30 - Mar 21 with 1105 views | Steve_M |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 17:13 - Mar 21 by NeedhamChris |
Yes, unquestionably and without a shadow of doubt.
Not sure how that relates to my point though - I although I sense (understandably) that this question was more about working out if I'm a Putin/Russia apologist than it was to engage with my point. I can assure you I am not. |
No, not at all. Just curious on that one and FWIW I think the prior pattern of attacks makes sabotage a strong possibility.
Equally half of the underground got knocked out by a substation fault back in 2003, so these things can definitely happen. | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 21:04 - Mar 21 with 1022 views | SitfcB |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:03 - Mar 21 by NeedhamChris |
Think we should wait for some evidence before making accusations like those in the first paragraph around, albeit something we should definitely be investigating. [Post edited 21 Mar 16:05]
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Jesus Christ.
It’s not that deep.
This is just the TWTD forum. |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 21:36 - Mar 21 with 1015 views | Rozeeboy74 |
And they want to build another runway?? | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 21:49 - Mar 21 with 1006 views | TractorWood |
LHR is kind of great but we are massively over reliant on it as a country. Basically if you are flying anywhere dimly interesting direct it's LHR or connection. [Post edited 21 Mar 22:15]
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 21:49 - Mar 21 with 1000 views | Lord_Lucan |
I've just read where the sub station was, it was in Nestles Avenue where I once lived, I assumed it was on the airport but it's about three miles away.
We should have built Boris Island. [Post edited 21 Mar 21:50]
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 22:08 - Mar 21 with 980 views | WicklowBlue |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 21:49 - Mar 21 by Lord_Lucan |
I've just read where the sub station was, it was in Nestles Avenue where I once lived, I assumed it was on the airport but it's about three miles away.
We should have built Boris Island. [Post edited 21 Mar 21:50]
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Knocked out about 100k homes lecky too I believe... | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 23:31 - Mar 21 with 912 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:51 - Mar 21 by NeedhamChris |
Please don't play the "I read your post and it wasn't dramatic enough for me so I'm going to respond to the argument I want to have rather than what was posted" card either.
I've said nothing about a court of law. Just some evidence. |
Hard to know what you said when you edit posts.
The hypothesis is reasonable because Putin promised "Chaos and disruption".
Nobody on a football message board has access to the forensic evidence, but it is certainly a plausible cause. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 00:51 - Mar 22 with 848 views | Ryorry |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:47 - Mar 21 by Nutkins_Return |
Playing devil's advocate here a bit but as someone said below, we are not talking about a small amount of back-up power here. Where is the money coming from in the current climate?
It's clearly fairly critical infrastructure from a commercial point of view and the fact they will have it up and running in 24-48hrs is still quite impressive.
You can't just have money to back everything up 100%. It will be largely backed-up for the critical things to bring planes down safely etc but not everything else. It would be hundreds of millions we don't have.
We always seem to expect as a society that everything works perfectly all the time and nothing goes wrong. If it does it's scandalous. |
"Where is the money coming from in the current climate?"
Maybe I'm missing something, but as LHR is a privately run enterprise, how about "from the people who use it to fly into & out of" ?
An extra £20, say, per flight towards new infrastructure wouldn't be a lot on top of yer average ticket I'd have thouight. Or charge a % of the tickets.
Anyway, if yesterday has put some people off flying, that's a plus for the future of the planet. |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 06:30 - Mar 22 with 786 views | Churchman |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 00:51 - Mar 22 by Ryorry |
"Where is the money coming from in the current climate?"
Maybe I'm missing something, but as LHR is a privately run enterprise, how about "from the people who use it to fly into & out of" ?
An extra £20, say, per flight towards new infrastructure wouldn't be a lot on top of yer average ticket I'd have thouight. Or charge a % of the tickets.
Anyway, if yesterday has put some people off flying, that's a plus for the future of the planet. |
Heathrow Airport Holdings Limited is in turn owned by FGP Topco Limited, a consortium owned and led by Ardian (22.61%), Qatar Investment Authority (20.00%), Public Investment Fund (15.01%), GIC (11.20%), Australian Retirement Trust (11.18%), China Investment Corporation (10.00%), Ferrovial S.A. (5.25%), Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (CDPQ) (2.65%), and Universities Superannuation Scheme (USS) (2.10%).
They made £917m profit last year and over £700m the previous year. Shame that all went into shareholders pockets abroad. Nothing like sweating the assets. I doubt there’s any mechanism to make them sweat for the losses they’ve incurred to people and business. You also have to ask how safe Heathrow is if they are skimping on investing to maximise those profits.
All questions to be answered. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 07:37 - Mar 22 with 729 views | Lord_Lucan |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 06:30 - Mar 22 by Churchman |
Heathrow Airport Holdings Limited is in turn owned by FGP Topco Limited, a consortium owned and led by Ardian (22.61%), Qatar Investment Authority (20.00%), Public Investment Fund (15.01%), GIC (11.20%), Australian Retirement Trust (11.18%), China Investment Corporation (10.00%), Ferrovial S.A. (5.25%), Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (CDPQ) (2.65%), and Universities Superannuation Scheme (USS) (2.10%).
They made £917m profit last year and over £700m the previous year. Shame that all went into shareholders pockets abroad. Nothing like sweating the assets. I doubt there’s any mechanism to make them sweat for the losses they’ve incurred to people and business. You also have to ask how safe Heathrow is if they are skimping on investing to maximise those profits.
All questions to be answered. |
I have no idea if this is true or not but I heard on the radio this morning that there were back up generators - but they were in the same location so they were affected in the same way.
One has to say though, UK PLC does seem to be built on the cheap........and this has been allowed to happen under successive governments. | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 07:46 - Mar 22 with 726 views | Churchman |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 07:37 - Mar 22 by Lord_Lucan |
I have no idea if this is true or not but I heard on the radio this morning that there were back up generators - but they were in the same location so they were affected in the same way.
One has to say though, UK PLC does seem to be built on the cheap........and this has been allowed to happen under successive governments. |
Built on the cheap, flogged off cheap. Poundland or Del Boy? I think more Del Boy as he knocked out radios on the cheap that caught fire.
My reading of it was that generators were on the same site (insane), one didn’t work (useless then) and there was insufficient capacity to run the airport. Total waste of time then. No back up. For the only sizeable international airport this country has.. | | | |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 08:02 - Mar 22 with 711 views | noggin |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 16:51 - Mar 21 by NeedhamChris |
Please don't play the "I read your post and it wasn't dramatic enough for me so I'm going to respond to the argument I want to have rather than what was posted" card either.
I've said nothing about a court of law. Just some evidence. |
Boris and Ivan were simply visiting Hillingdon Cathedral. [Post edited 22 Mar 8:09]
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 08:15 - Mar 22 with 682 views | noggin |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 06:30 - Mar 22 by Churchman |
Heathrow Airport Holdings Limited is in turn owned by FGP Topco Limited, a consortium owned and led by Ardian (22.61%), Qatar Investment Authority (20.00%), Public Investment Fund (15.01%), GIC (11.20%), Australian Retirement Trust (11.18%), China Investment Corporation (10.00%), Ferrovial S.A. (5.25%), Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (CDPQ) (2.65%), and Universities Superannuation Scheme (USS) (2.10%).
They made £917m profit last year and over £700m the previous year. Shame that all went into shareholders pockets abroad. Nothing like sweating the assets. I doubt there’s any mechanism to make them sweat for the losses they’ve incurred to people and business. You also have to ask how safe Heathrow is if they are skimping on investing to maximise those profits.
All questions to be answered. |
Ah, but those profits will trickle down and we'll all be fine. | |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 09:22 - Mar 22 with 609 views | bournemouthblue |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 15:07 - Mar 21 by Guthrum |
It was probably the Russians blew up the sub-station, given their recent sabotage shenanigans in Europe.
Plus it's hard to test failure in a system which has to be kept running 24/7. |
I certainly wouldn't rule it out but even if they did, it's a cock up on our part, I use the term 'our' I assume Heathrow is actually a Private Entity but is still critical National Infrastructure
And the same applies to CoVid with China, if it really was a biological weapon then why weren't we prepared for it |  |
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| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 09:57 - Mar 22 with 583 views | Ryorry |
| How doesn’t LHR have back up generators? on 06:30 - Mar 22 by Churchman |
Heathrow Airport Holdings Limited is in turn owned by FGP Topco Limited, a consortium owned and led by Ardian (22.61%), Qatar Investment Authority (20.00%), Public Investment Fund (15.01%), GIC (11.20%), Australian Retirement Trust (11.18%), China Investment Corporation (10.00%), Ferrovial S.A. (5.25%), Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec (CDPQ) (2.65%), and Universities Superannuation Scheme (USS) (2.10%).
They made £917m profit last year and over £700m the previous year. Shame that all went into shareholders pockets abroad. Nothing like sweating the assets. I doubt there’s any mechanism to make them sweat for the losses they’ve incurred to people and business. You also have to ask how safe Heathrow is if they are skimping on investing to maximise those profits.
All questions to be answered. |
Ah. The Thames Water of the skies then 🤬 | |
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