| £500 a year better off a year 08:22 - Mar 27 with 7332 views | onceablue |
Under Labour.
Who the hell is she referring to.
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| £500 a year better off a year on 11:06 - Mar 27 with 1580 views | Mullet |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:00 - Mar 27 by DJR |
I've said this before but Reeves, Starmer and Streeting come across to me as automatons who lack empathy.
Perhaps it is this that makes them unaware of the consequences of what they are doing, and thus able to do things that are anathema to the Labour movement.
And lurking behind is Morgan McSweeney, who must also take the blame for the political ineptness of what they are doing in relation to carers and the disabled. [Post edited 27 Mar 11:01]
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Starmers career in the judicial system counters that surely?
I’ve been less and less impressed with Streeting of late and how he conducts himself. I can see what you mean because he sounds far too corporate and desperate not to upset the kind of people that would never vote for him or Labour anyway.
Reeves seems to be pilloried like any woman in Labour by the right wing press and the festering sexism they court. I can’t make my mind up about how much of the criticism is fair. As you pointed out with Abbott.
I’d say they maybe lack charisma or the spiv type gregariousness that the Tories and far right rely on. |  |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 11:12 - Mar 27 with 1564 views | OldFart71 |
| £500 a year better off a year on 09:05 - Mar 27 by bluejacko |
So are you saying pensioners should live in the complete dark then🙄 |
Oh course we should. We should now leave the moaning about their lot to this generation. After all they are the only ones to suffer from any hardships. We on the other hand didn't. After WW2 you had everything you needed. Shame really that rationing didn't end until 1954. Toilets were down the yard with no lighting or heating, only the wealthy had their own house and bath time was a tin bath in front of the fire. My first house was a Council flat and I struggled bringing up a wife and child, but unlike some I didn't disappear leaving the state to pay for my child. When eventually in my thirties I got a mortgage and in order to pay for it I worked a 72 hour week. But hey , I've had it easy haven't I. So why should I have Sky tv or any creature comforts. | | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:15 - Mar 27 with 1542 views | OldFart71 |
| £500 a year better off a year on 09:58 - Mar 27 by DJR |
Bit unfair to bring Diane Abbott into the discussion. She is no supporter of the Starmer project, as evidenced by the fact they attempted to prevent her standing as a Labour MP.
As regards your tax calculation, £34 per month works out at an extra £408 per year. Tax at 20% on that is £81.60.
Maybe you have a private pension too, which means you pay more tax because of that, but I assume that pension (which you don't mention) will also go up.
[Post edited 27 Mar 10:08]
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That was a joke. Based on her faux par a few years ago saying she would employed thousands more police and the costs she estimated worked out at £1000 per Copper. | | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:23 - Mar 27 with 1517 views | DJR |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:06 - Mar 27 by Mullet |
Starmers career in the judicial system counters that surely?
I’ve been less and less impressed with Streeting of late and how he conducts himself. I can see what you mean because he sounds far too corporate and desperate not to upset the kind of people that would never vote for him or Labour anyway.
Reeves seems to be pilloried like any woman in Labour by the right wing press and the festering sexism they court. I can’t make my mind up about how much of the criticism is fair. As you pointed out with Abbott.
I’d say they maybe lack charisma or the spiv type gregariousness that the Tories and far right rely on. |
Maybe the issue I have with Starmer is that he came to politics very late and thus maybe lacks a bit of political grounding or nous, thus being too reliant on those behind him.
And those people don't appear to be of the same quality as people like Alastair Campbell.
EDIT: I forgot to say that Rachel from accounts is an example of the sexism you mention. Indeed, I think a recent thread had that in its title. [Post edited 27 Mar 11:59]
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| £500 a year better off a year on 11:23 - Mar 27 with 1516 views | Mullet |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:12 - Mar 27 by OldFart71 |
Oh course we should. We should now leave the moaning about their lot to this generation. After all they are the only ones to suffer from any hardships. We on the other hand didn't. After WW2 you had everything you needed. Shame really that rationing didn't end until 1954. Toilets were down the yard with no lighting or heating, only the wealthy had their own house and bath time was a tin bath in front of the fire. My first house was a Council flat and I struggled bringing up a wife and child, but unlike some I didn't disappear leaving the state to pay for my child. When eventually in my thirties I got a mortgage and in order to pay for it I worked a 72 hour week. But hey , I've had it easy haven't I. So why should I have Sky tv or any creature comforts. |
You sound like you want others to suffer here. I’m not sure you mean to, or maybe you do, but surely if you know how hard life is you should want to make sure others avoid those things or worse? | |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 11:26 - Mar 27 with 1493 views | NedPlimpton |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:12 - Mar 27 by OldFart71 |
Oh course we should. We should now leave the moaning about their lot to this generation. After all they are the only ones to suffer from any hardships. We on the other hand didn't. After WW2 you had everything you needed. Shame really that rationing didn't end until 1954. Toilets were down the yard with no lighting or heating, only the wealthy had their own house and bath time was a tin bath in front of the fire. My first house was a Council flat and I struggled bringing up a wife and child, but unlike some I didn't disappear leaving the state to pay for my child. When eventually in my thirties I got a mortgage and in order to pay for it I worked a 72 hour week. But hey , I've had it easy haven't I. So why should I have Sky tv or any creature comforts. |
You absolutely can have Sky TV, if you can afford it
But if you're so hard up and need the winter fuel allowance, then you should probably prioritise heating your house first before buying an expensive tv subscription
I would very much imagine that's the sort of thing you would say to someone on universal credit who has a sky tv subscription. Or am I wrong? [Post edited 27 Mar 11:30]
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| £500 a year better off a year on 11:35 - Mar 27 with 1444 views | Benters |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:12 - Mar 27 by OldFart71 |
Oh course we should. We should now leave the moaning about their lot to this generation. After all they are the only ones to suffer from any hardships. We on the other hand didn't. After WW2 you had everything you needed. Shame really that rationing didn't end until 1954. Toilets were down the yard with no lighting or heating, only the wealthy had their own house and bath time was a tin bath in front of the fire. My first house was a Council flat and I struggled bringing up a wife and child, but unlike some I didn't disappear leaving the state to pay for my child. When eventually in my thirties I got a mortgage and in order to pay for it I worked a 72 hour week. But hey , I've had it easy haven't I. So why should I have Sky tv or any creature comforts. |
Bravo.👍 |  |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 11:44 - Mar 27 with 1376 views | homer_123 |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:12 - Mar 27 by OldFart71 |
Oh course we should. We should now leave the moaning about their lot to this generation. After all they are the only ones to suffer from any hardships. We on the other hand didn't. After WW2 you had everything you needed. Shame really that rationing didn't end until 1954. Toilets were down the yard with no lighting or heating, only the wealthy had their own house and bath time was a tin bath in front of the fire. My first house was a Council flat and I struggled bringing up a wife and child, but unlike some I didn't disappear leaving the state to pay for my child. When eventually in my thirties I got a mortgage and in order to pay for it I worked a 72 hour week. But hey , I've had it easy haven't I. So why should I have Sky tv or any creature comforts. |
Hang on sec.....on the one hand you state you 'didn't disappear leaving the state to pay for your child.'
Yet in your OP you seem to moan about 'Before Christmas they cut the Winter Fuel Payment so I am £200 down there.' |  |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 11:49 - Mar 27 with 1347 views | rkc123 |
| £500 a year better off a year on 09:17 - Mar 27 by homer_123 |
It's very simple.
Companies can operate within the UK but can easily ensure that from a financial perspective, any profits are taken offshore....it's not difficult.
It's not easy to simply 'tax' them.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't try... |
The example of Costa is a good one for the type of company that I think it would be relatively easy to rework tax law so that they do pay a fair amount of tax based on their profits, largely because the vast majority of their profits come from sales in UK based coffee shops. They couldn't just move manufacturing/offices elsewhere like a lot of big companies that don't rely on a physical presence in the UK, companies like this would be an easy starting place to tighten tax loopholes without the risk of driving business/jobs overseas (at least in my opinion, I have no real knowledge on the subject though so I may be wrong). | | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 12:16 - Mar 27 with 1260 views | ArnieM |
| £500 a year better off a year on 09:17 - Mar 27 by homer_123 |
It's very simple.
Companies can operate within the UK but can easily ensure that from a financial perspective, any profits are taken offshore....it's not difficult.
It's not easy to simply 'tax' them.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't try... |
Its a loophole really isnt it ...It needs to be addressed, because these companies at taking pee frankly ! |  |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 12:48 - Mar 27 with 1203 views | OldFart71 |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:23 - Mar 27 by Mullet |
You sound like you want others to suffer here. I’m not sure you mean to, or maybe you do, but surely if you know how hard life is you should want to make sure others avoid those things or worse? |
I can assure you it has never been in my nature to wish ill/suffering on anyone. I have Grandchildren who no doubt will want to get married and have everything they wish for. I hope they get it and everyone else who is prepared to work and pay their way and for those unable I also wish them the very best. What I don't want is people telling me what I should or shouldn't have as a pensioner. I worked until I was 71. In most respects my own choice and but for worsening health I would still be working as I loved it. Great times with great workmates. I don't want plaudits for working hard, paying my way etc. I still pay tax and my point was not one where I was moaning about my lot. It was one where I explained how someone could reckon I was £500 a year better off. My life consists of going to the pub occasionally when Town are on tv. I don't have Sky Sport. I have a fiver on the horses on a Saturday and I try to keep my garden tidy, but it's becoming a struggle. I have a holiday when I can afford it, but that won't be this year as I have had to have a new roof on my garage, the fence between myself and my neighbour replaced and a leaking conservatory roof repaired. All have been done in the last 6 months or so. So to reiterate, no I definitely have no wish for suffering of any generation and I am sure my Grandparents suffered far more than myself and definitely worked harder. | | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 12:53 - Mar 27 with 1201 views | bluejacko |
| £500 a year better off a year on 09:20 - Mar 27 by Mullet |
I’m not sure Sky is the best way to light your house ironically. But after years of young people hearing they should stop drinking coffee and eating bf avocados or whatnot, it does seem that a lot of pensioners don’t apply / have that applied to them in the same way.
Given they are such a key voting bloc it’s also telling what years of pandering and bribing pensioners does to win elections. That’s a systematic fault not a personal one, but we are back to yesterday’s ideas about deserving and undeserving poor aren’t we?
There seems to be a rife attitude of demanding others are shamed for their spending/choices but people feel their luxuries are sacred and should be factored in. Thats why this stuff gets so personal and emotive. |
Yep wrong way of putting it what I meant was do you believe pensioners should live off the grid in the dark so to speak.👍 | | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 12:59 - Mar 27 with 1185 views | mutters |
| £500 a year better off a year on 12:16 - Mar 27 by ArnieM |
Its a loophole really isnt it ...It needs to be addressed, because these companies at taking pee frankly ! |
Definitely.
A company can set up their HQ or their financial hub in a very tax friendly company and then charge their UK group a fee for using their IP (branding / logo etc) which effectively reduces the UK groups profitability to a very low amount, hence less tax to pay in the UK. The majority of the profits are now exposed in the country where it's tax friendly. |  |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 13:02 - Mar 27 with 1172 views | OldFart71 |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:26 - Mar 27 by NedPlimpton |
You absolutely can have Sky TV, if you can afford it
But if you're so hard up and need the winter fuel allowance, then you should probably prioritise heating your house first before buying an expensive tv subscription
I would very much imagine that's the sort of thing you would say to someone on universal credit who has a sky tv subscription. Or am I wrong? [Post edited 27 Mar 11:30]
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Where did I state I was hard up ? The original post stated "£500 a year better off" I was merely pointing out that if you take what has been taken away, what now costs more and the extra tax I have to pay means that in no way I am £500 a year better off. I don't expect to get away with some pain due to the state of our economy, although what is coming will in part be due to Rachel Reeves. | | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 13:03 - Mar 27 with 1166 views | NedPlimpton |
| £500 a year better off a year on 12:53 - Mar 27 by bluejacko |
Yep wrong way of putting it what I meant was do you believe pensioners should live off the grid in the dark so to speak.👍 |
Literally no one, ever, is saying or has said that | | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 13:11 - Mar 27 with 1123 views | backwaywhen |
| £500 a year better off a year on 08:54 - Mar 27 by OldFart71 |
Let's get a few figures right. I am a pensioner and my increase on the O.A.P. is £34 per month. Before Christmas they cut the Winter Fuel Payment so I am £200 down there. HMRC has informed me due to the personal allowance staying at £12,570 that I will pay £253 more tax. Total now at £450. My Council tax has gone up £8 per month. Total now £530. Sky went up in January by £8 and then another £5 in March. Total now £686. Water up by £1 as I was £96 in credit. Total now £698. BT up by £2.41. Total now £726.92. All this without taking into account food prices. So I am £284.92 down on what I received in the last financial year. That's not taking into account what my fuel bill may be. Before the winter I was in credit by
well over £100. I am now around £30 in credit but my heating has been on 2/3rds less than last year and I am paying 28% more. I presume the £500 better off was worked out by Diane Abbott on her abacus for Rachel Reeves |
Over to you StokieBlue (Red)
Vote Labour vote for change ……short changed ! | | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 13:19 - Mar 27 with 1101 views | Mullet |
| £500 a year better off a year on 12:53 - Mar 27 by bluejacko |
Yep wrong way of putting it what I meant was do you believe pensioners should live off the grid in the dark so to speak.👍 |
No, obviously I’d allow maybe two years state pension then euthanise them all on principle. My mum and dad are milking it frankly and I want to sell the house before the property bubble in North Suffolk pops.
I actually think my generation will not have a state pension and there will be a move to means tested UC type payments. That seems to be the way capitalism is moving, and this country seems to be moving away from social provision practically and ideologically.
The winter fuel debate and free tv license debate before that highlighted how for some reason benefits are seen as entitlements for pensioners by a lot of people. Which makes debates like this incredibly hard. If people could accept a line where pensioners are eligible to pay or not pay for these things it’d be much easier.
Again though if people had the appetite for the “wealth tax” / going after corporations and offshore banking / dismantling the royal family and peerage systems which would make us all so much better off, we’d not be discussing this. | |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 13:26 - Mar 27 with 1086 views | Swansea_Blue |
| £500 a year better off a year on 08:54 - Mar 27 by OldFart71 |
Let's get a few figures right. I am a pensioner and my increase on the O.A.P. is £34 per month. Before Christmas they cut the Winter Fuel Payment so I am £200 down there. HMRC has informed me due to the personal allowance staying at £12,570 that I will pay £253 more tax. Total now at £450. My Council tax has gone up £8 per month. Total now £530. Sky went up in January by £8 and then another £5 in March. Total now £686. Water up by £1 as I was £96 in credit. Total now £698. BT up by £2.41. Total now £726.92. All this without taking into account food prices. So I am £284.92 down on what I received in the last financial year. That's not taking into account what my fuel bill may be. Before the winter I was in credit by
well over £100. I am now around £30 in credit but my heating has been on 2/3rds less than last year and I am paying 28% more. I presume the £500 better off was worked out by Diane Abbott on her abacus for Rachel Reeves |
Sadly, there’s a lot in a similar position as wages in many areas have failed to keep place with inflation essentially since the 2008 global financial crisis and then that was exacerbated by Truss’ impact on lending prices and the wider recent spike in inflation. Just before I left my last role we’d had a pay award of 3 percent when inflation was running at 10-12%. A lot of people have been taking a hit and some will continue to do so. A lot of those people will have enough headroom to absorb real value declines in income. Unfortunately some won’t, which is why I find Labour’s apparent targeting of the most vulnerable a very ugly policy. |  |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 13:28 - Mar 27 with 1081 views | bsw72 |
| £500 a year better off a year on 11:49 - Mar 27 by rkc123 |
The example of Costa is a good one for the type of company that I think it would be relatively easy to rework tax law so that they do pay a fair amount of tax based on their profits, largely because the vast majority of their profits come from sales in UK based coffee shops. They couldn't just move manufacturing/offices elsewhere like a lot of big companies that don't rely on a physical presence in the UK, companies like this would be an easy starting place to tighten tax loopholes without the risk of driving business/jobs overseas (at least in my opinion, I have no real knowledge on the subject though so I may be wrong). |
OK, let's consider Costa . . . despite their obvious physical presence in the UK, the company operates with a highly complex financial structure. Through accounting practices, they can leverage "transfer pricing" to allocate profits to lower-tax jurisdictions. For example, if the market price for coffee beans is £1 per kilogram, Costa might set the transfer price at £1.50 per kilogram when selling to its UK operations. This inflated cost increases expenses for the UK coffee shops, thereby reducing their taxable profits. Consequently, while Costa's UK operations report lower earnings and pay less tax, the additional profit is recognized in the lower-tax jurisdiction, effectively minimizing their overall tax liability.
It's important to note that such practices must comply with local tax laws and international guidelines to avoid scrutiny from tax authorities - Tax Avoidance is legal, if not ethical, versus Tax Evasion. Additionally, while Costa operates in the UK, it is a subsidiary of Coca-Cola, which adds another layer of complexity to its financial arrangements.
The challenge with corporate taxation is that the general public often has a basic understanding based on personal tax or small business taxation. However, corporate taxation involves a much more intricate mix of legal, economic, and political considerations.
And this is just one example (with Costa) in the UK. It’s worth considering how stretched HMRC must be to conduct thorough reviews of corporate tax practices across the entire UK population and all corporations operating here. [Post edited 27 Mar 13:29]
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| £500 a year better off a year on 13:39 - Mar 27 with 1061 views | StokieBlue |
| £500 a year better off a year on 13:11 - Mar 27 by backwaywhen |
Over to you StokieBlue (Red)
Vote Labour vote for change ……short changed ! |
Why are you mentioning me?
Why the weird "(Red)"?
All a bit childish really.
SB |  | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 13:39 - Mar 27 with 1057 views | NedPlimpton |
| £500 a year better off a year on 13:02 - Mar 27 by OldFart71 |
Where did I state I was hard up ? The original post stated "£500 a year better off" I was merely pointing out that if you take what has been taken away, what now costs more and the extra tax I have to pay means that in no way I am £500 a year better off. I don't expect to get away with some pain due to the state of our economy, although what is coming will in part be due to Rachel Reeves. |
I didn't say you were hard up, I was saying "if you were"
The OBR forecast is stating that the average household (not individuals) will be £500 a year better off under this govt by 2029/30, not tomorrow. So whilst I appreciate things might be getting tougher for you at the moment, it's not really relevant to the '£500 a year better off' headline | | | |
| £500 a year better off a year on 14:31 - Mar 27 with 955 views | Ryorry |
| £500 a year better off a year on 13:26 - Mar 27 by Swansea_Blue |
Sadly, there’s a lot in a similar position as wages in many areas have failed to keep place with inflation essentially since the 2008 global financial crisis and then that was exacerbated by Truss’ impact on lending prices and the wider recent spike in inflation. Just before I left my last role we’d had a pay award of 3 percent when inflation was running at 10-12%. A lot of people have been taking a hit and some will continue to do so. A lot of those people will have enough headroom to absorb real value declines in income. Unfortunately some won’t, which is why I find Labour’s apparent targeting of the most vulnerable a very ugly policy. |
It's her rigidity that gets me.
She's got this idee fixee that because Labour have historically been accused of not being able to manage the economy, she has to go in hard & out-tory the tories in order to prove a point. So she's gone in & hard-edge boxed off targets which Labour have traditionally been perceived as "soft" on. She won't backtrack because she's foolishly stubborn & lacks the confidence (which tbf isn't surprising) to do so.
Starmer's a delegator & won't persuade her to rethink because he wants it to be seen that he has confidence in "the first female Chancellor" (which I think has been rather a millstone round her neck). |  |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 16:38 - Mar 27 with 868 views | BlueBadger |
| £500 a year better off a year on 09:05 - Mar 27 by bluejacko |
So are you saying pensioners should live in the complete dark then🙄 |
Perhaps they could cancel their Sky and buy a few less werther's original and stop going to bingo if they're feeling the pinch? |  |
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| £500 a year better off a year on 16:55 - Mar 27 with 837 views | mellowblue |
| £500 a year better off a year on 13:26 - Mar 27 by Swansea_Blue |
Sadly, there’s a lot in a similar position as wages in many areas have failed to keep place with inflation essentially since the 2008 global financial crisis and then that was exacerbated by Truss’ impact on lending prices and the wider recent spike in inflation. Just before I left my last role we’d had a pay award of 3 percent when inflation was running at 10-12%. A lot of people have been taking a hit and some will continue to do so. A lot of those people will have enough headroom to absorb real value declines in income. Unfortunately some won’t, which is why I find Labour’s apparent targeting of the most vulnerable a very ugly policy. |
Don't think you can fully blame Truss for the inflation of 2021/22. Inflation was already climbing when she was appointed and it was double digit Europe-wide as well. She was undoubtably the wrong person at the wrong time though. | | | |
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