| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is 23:05 - Apr 9 with 9338 views | NeedhamChris |
Given his agent was such a tough negotiator, can't imagine he's left a prized managerial asset locked in too tightly. |  |
| |  |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 16:09 - Apr 10 with 1520 views | blueasfook |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 14:38 - Apr 10 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Blimey, first post today, that's a long time to be plucking up the courage to dive in! |
the prospect of being downvoted and ridiculed maybe put him off all that time? |  |
| |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 16:12 - Apr 10 with 1506 views | Keno |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 14:31 - Apr 10 by PhilTWTD |
Poster has been registered for more than a decade! |
that is new for some of us |  |
| |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 16:24 - Apr 10 with 1459 views | Wickets |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 23:27 - Apr 9 by JammyDodgerrr |
Nah, I think if anything is going to happen it will be sorted quickly, either way. |
Well I just hope your right because obviously we need it sorted quickly one way or another . |  | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 16:43 - Apr 10 with 1425 views | positivity |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 16:09 - Apr 10 by blueasfook |
the prospect of being downvoted and ridiculed maybe put him off all that time? |
maybe there should be a message when you sign up:-
"if you make ill-informed, troll-y posts, you should expect a few down-arrows, if you're too sensitive to cope with this; maybe stick to truth"? | |
| |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 16:44 - Apr 10 with 1414 views | blueasfook |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 16:12 - Apr 10 by Keno |
that is new for some of us |
I am a veteran of 25 years. I want a gold watch or something | |
| |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 15:27 - Apr 11 with 1261 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 23:27 - Apr 9 by JammyDodgerrr |
Nah, I think if anything is going to happen it will be sorted quickly, either way. |
Didn't think it'd be this early but I'll take it! |  |
| |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:19 - Apr 11 with 1170 views | darkhorse28 |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 13:59 - Apr 10 by Steve_M |
It was a bizarre decision to keep the manager who had got us two promotions in two seasons as our best bet at trying to stay up?
I think other clubs will look at the context of ITFC this season rather more than you have when assessing whether they still think McKenna is a good manager. |
Giving him a champions league contract not keeping him. You disagree? | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:31 - Apr 11 with 1139 views | darkhorse28 |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 13:59 - Apr 10 by Steve_M |
It was a bizarre decision to keep the manager who had got us two promotions in two seasons as our best bet at trying to stay up?
I think other clubs will look at the context of ITFC this season rather more than you have when assessing whether they still think McKenna is a good manager. |
You do know owner will be objective, and not emotionally invested like we are.
As an owner. He’s spent £150 million, the most of any club in that position, touted his services whilst under contract last summer, to secure the 5th best contact in the league, and one of the best in Europe, having only managed at EFL level, that’s unprecedented.
He’s taken that record level of investment and coached a group to get measurably worse the longer they’ve been together, culminating in one league win at home all season, one of the lowest points totals ever, and a new club record for consecutive home defeats.., which hasn’t ended yet.
The talent ID has been truly awful, and owners don’t like setting fire to £100 million plus if we exclude Delap.
In all seriousness - as good as last season was, would you give him a job in the EPL??? You’d need to be bonkers, there isn’t an owner in the world would take that risk.., and why have the group got worse the longer they’ve been together?? .., it’s a bizarre level of blind faith. I wonder if some fans never saw our genuinely talented teams, and are so starved of success they think this is what it looks like.., we’ll be a long time out of the EPL if our talent ID doesn’t improve 100 fold.., clubs no bigger than us like Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, are leagues ahead of us, and spending much less too.., except Brighton. The funny thing is, none of these are opinions.
They’re not conjecture. They’re measures. Metrics, the optics of how we’ve actually done over an entire season. The religious like conviction to failure, won’t help us become an elite club again.., it’s the opposite. We need drastic improvement in areas KM seems to acknowledge as obvious weaknesses. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:35 - Apr 11 with 1133 views | Herbivore |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:31 - Apr 11 by darkhorse28 |
You do know owner will be objective, and not emotionally invested like we are.
As an owner. He’s spent £150 million, the most of any club in that position, touted his services whilst under contract last summer, to secure the 5th best contact in the league, and one of the best in Europe, having only managed at EFL level, that’s unprecedented.
He’s taken that record level of investment and coached a group to get measurably worse the longer they’ve been together, culminating in one league win at home all season, one of the lowest points totals ever, and a new club record for consecutive home defeats.., which hasn’t ended yet.
The talent ID has been truly awful, and owners don’t like setting fire to £100 million plus if we exclude Delap.
In all seriousness - as good as last season was, would you give him a job in the EPL??? You’d need to be bonkers, there isn’t an owner in the world would take that risk.., and why have the group got worse the longer they’ve been together?? .., it’s a bizarre level of blind faith. I wonder if some fans never saw our genuinely talented teams, and are so starved of success they think this is what it looks like.., we’ll be a long time out of the EPL if our talent ID doesn’t improve 100 fold.., clubs no bigger than us like Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, are leagues ahead of us, and spending much less too.., except Brighton. The funny thing is, none of these are opinions.
They’re not conjecture. They’re measures. Metrics, the optics of how we’ve actually done over an entire season. The religious like conviction to failure, won’t help us become an elite club again.., it’s the opposite. We need drastic improvement in areas KM seems to acknowledge as obvious weaknesses. |
No, they're opinions. And sh!t ones at that. |  |
| |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:46 - Apr 11 with 1118 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:19 - Apr 11 by darkhorse28 |
Giving him a champions league contract not keeping him. You disagree? |
Your critical thinking is somewhat lacking.
Let’s break this down. We kept him. By definition that is ‘keeping him’. | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:51 - Apr 11 with 1113 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:31 - Apr 11 by darkhorse28 |
You do know owner will be objective, and not emotionally invested like we are.
As an owner. He’s spent £150 million, the most of any club in that position, touted his services whilst under contract last summer, to secure the 5th best contact in the league, and one of the best in Europe, having only managed at EFL level, that’s unprecedented.
He’s taken that record level of investment and coached a group to get measurably worse the longer they’ve been together, culminating in one league win at home all season, one of the lowest points totals ever, and a new club record for consecutive home defeats.., which hasn’t ended yet.
The talent ID has been truly awful, and owners don’t like setting fire to £100 million plus if we exclude Delap.
In all seriousness - as good as last season was, would you give him a job in the EPL??? You’d need to be bonkers, there isn’t an owner in the world would take that risk.., and why have the group got worse the longer they’ve been together?? .., it’s a bizarre level of blind faith. I wonder if some fans never saw our genuinely talented teams, and are so starved of success they think this is what it looks like.., we’ll be a long time out of the EPL if our talent ID doesn’t improve 100 fold.., clubs no bigger than us like Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, are leagues ahead of us, and spending much less too.., except Brighton. The funny thing is, none of these are opinions.
They’re not conjecture. They’re measures. Metrics, the optics of how we’ve actually done over an entire season. The religious like conviction to failure, won’t help us become an elite club again.., it’s the opposite. We need drastic improvement in areas KM seems to acknowledge as obvious weaknesses. |
Not only is much of this conjecture, but much of it is just plain wrong.
Of the other clubs you listed, take a look at what they’ve spent over the past few seasons, and the value of the squads. They are a country mile ahead of us.
This seriously verges on trolling. [Post edited 11 Apr 22:35]
| | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:55 - Apr 11 with 1107 views | darkhorse28 |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 14:05 - Apr 10 by jasondozzell |
Don't agree with this at all. He's not been poor. Okay, he's fallen short of his target but he's had us competitive and easily the best of the promoted sides. A lot of bad luck too. We've played some really good football against top sides and should have beaten Villa, Fulham, United etc.
I think his stock is still very, very high. I am just hoping we keep him. Feels like we will but you never know.
If you're in the football industry, he's on your list. |
Hmm at what level. He spent £150 million, you say we aren’t poor, we’ve won ONE home game all season, set a club record for home defeats. And will be relegated with one of the lowest ever points totals, not having a go, because I agree we were largely competitive the first half of the season, but we’ve also got progressively worse.., I think we define what poor looks like, I think poor is exceptionally generous.., because he gave us a great season last season, the best journey .., but at a significantly lower level than this.
No lremker league club will short list again.., not unless he shows massive improvement .., owners like their money.., we’ve set fire to £100 million on players everyone knows won’t ever be good enough for this level, Johnson, Greaves, Muric, Clarke, Philogene, Hutchinson (as much as I love the guy) they haven’t even been close to competative.., and I’d add KM has coached them far worse.., and there is obvious talent in the group, Hutch and Phil.., why have they played significantly better at U-21 than under KM? .., maybe a slightly lower level, but we haven’t got the best form any player this year except Delap .., that should be a worry.., a confused mess of coaching, one tactic, and troublesome team selections at times.., we’ve never started the same 11 until Wolves.., that shows how KM still hasn’t worked out our best side.., it’s April.
I bet the emotional investment, last season was one of the best in decades, but we need to be honest with ourselves, he’s stunk this league out by every single metric.., and he can’t keep shouting ‘rookie’ he was at Man Itd for years.., and that was why clubs were interested, because he should have been able to make the step if he was good enough.., the tide has gone out now, he’s naked, and as a measure, he’s not at this level, or even close to it. (And I wouldn’t mention Southampton or Leiscter) we spent more than them combined, and even Southampton beat us at home and we haven’t beaten either of them this year. Time will tell on KM I guess.., would just be nice if he was honest about the consequences of his salary, and £150 million spent.., because it’s defining our next gen years if we’re honest.., we’ve missed a generational opportunity, and I don’t think many supporters realise the consequences (yet). | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:02 - Apr 11 with 1093 views | Trequartista |
Very very well protected i would think. £57.43 if we're relegated. |  |
| |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:19 - Apr 11 with 1081 views | darkhorse28 |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 16:43 - Apr 10 by positivity |
maybe there should be a message when you sign up:-
"if you make ill-informed, troll-y posts, you should expect a few down-arrows, if you're too sensitive to cope with this; maybe stick to truth"? |
It’s your level of factional crap that keeps many from posting (I imagine). I don’t know how Phil does it, should have been knighted decades ago for putting up with people’s need to be intolerant.
Does the idea you might be wrong frighten you? (That’s rhetorical).
My OP point wasn’t about McKenna staying, obviously I think we’re all glad he did.., it was about giving him a contract at that level, Brighton obviously thought for world class level salaries, they can get a manger proven to be that level.
KM has one good season in league one, and one exceptionally good season at championship level.
Most owners and CEO’s would walk away from that risk, when it’s such a big leap in quality and skills required.
If we don’t walk away at 5th best paid in the league, and one of the best paid in world football, where do you say no?? It was a big risk.
Do you think Brighton are kicking themselves, or thinking the dodged a bullet? (That’s rhetorical again)
And I’m 51…, spent six months with Sir Bobby in Portugal, and won’t be posting to be popular, or for likes, or to be intentionally controversial.., just my views, others are available, stick to posting what you think gets you most approval and validation, if that’s what you need. Let other people have their opinions, learn some respect and some tolerance, we all want success, nodding along isn’t always the answer. | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:28 - Apr 11 with 1064 views | darkhorse28 |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:35 - Apr 11 by Herbivore |
No, they're opinions. And sh!t ones at that. |
£130 million net spend, club record home defeats, one home win all season, no signing good enough except the obvious, measurably worse the longer the season progresses.
One of them is conjecture.., the rest, just measures.
Doesn’t matter how you feel about them, they’re facts. No point crying over it, we need to improve in talent ID especially, otherwise what will change?
You going to cry and cry us into being elite again? | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:35 - Apr 11 with 1053 views | Horsham |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:31 - Apr 11 by darkhorse28 |
You do know owner will be objective, and not emotionally invested like we are.
As an owner. He’s spent £150 million, the most of any club in that position, touted his services whilst under contract last summer, to secure the 5th best contact in the league, and one of the best in Europe, having only managed at EFL level, that’s unprecedented.
He’s taken that record level of investment and coached a group to get measurably worse the longer they’ve been together, culminating in one league win at home all season, one of the lowest points totals ever, and a new club record for consecutive home defeats.., which hasn’t ended yet.
The talent ID has been truly awful, and owners don’t like setting fire to £100 million plus if we exclude Delap.
In all seriousness - as good as last season was, would you give him a job in the EPL??? You’d need to be bonkers, there isn’t an owner in the world would take that risk.., and why have the group got worse the longer they’ve been together?? .., it’s a bizarre level of blind faith. I wonder if some fans never saw our genuinely talented teams, and are so starved of success they think this is what it looks like.., we’ll be a long time out of the EPL if our talent ID doesn’t improve 100 fold.., clubs no bigger than us like Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, are leagues ahead of us, and spending much less too.., except Brighton. The funny thing is, none of these are opinions.
They’re not conjecture. They’re measures. Metrics, the optics of how we’ve actually done over an entire season. The religious like conviction to failure, won’t help us become an elite club again.., it’s the opposite. We need drastic improvement in areas KM seems to acknowledge as obvious weaknesses. |
This is total horse sh it no pun intended.
‘The owner’ were owned by a pension fund and numerous others. Horse sh it.
‘The owner spent….’ Just for one of the rare times in the last 25 years, no the owners didn’t spend. The money came from the club’s premier league revenue.
I’m bored now but the rest is horse sh it too. |  | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:42 - Apr 11 with 1038 views | darkhorse28 |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 14:31 - Apr 10 by PhilTWTD |
Poster has been registered for more than a decade! |
I don’t know how you do it Phil. You deserve a medal the size of a dustbin lid. I used to get the physical fanzine, and have followed almost daily ever since, a great source of information, and a wonderful resource, there should be an MBE for community services at the very least.., but honestly, what is wrong with people?
I’m liberal minded .., and I’ve spent years sticking up for this forum, when it’s often described as a liberal echo chamber of factional hatred and intolerance, but it’s true isn’t it. Lots of reductive tribal crap at least, it’s like football is just a vague proxy for some people.
There can only be one narrative, and ad hominem attacks are normal, any alternative views aren’t tolerated ., not even 1% .., it’s like a rabbit hole of confirmation bias and a living breathing homage to ‘lord of the flies’ .., I didn’t even post for engagement, just to vent at selling the best asset we’ve had in decades for half his market value. Anyway, good luck buddy, keep fighting the good fight.., and I’ll try again in another decade .., it’s like as a society, we’ve 100% lost the ability to just agree to disagree.., I blame Brexit (that will get an up vote as a curtain bow). | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:42 - Apr 11 with 1034 views | Herbivore |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:28 - Apr 11 by darkhorse28 |
£130 million net spend, club record home defeats, one home win all season, no signing good enough except the obvious, measurably worse the longer the season progresses.
One of them is conjecture.., the rest, just measures.
Doesn’t matter how you feel about them, they’re facts. No point crying over it, we need to improve in talent ID especially, otherwise what will change?
You going to cry and cry us into being elite again? |
No, I'm going to laugh and laugh at you being a massive bell-piece instead I reckon. A minute ago it was £150m, your "facts" have already lost £20m in value. | |
| |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:51 - Apr 11 with 1022 views | darkhorse28 |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:46 - Apr 11 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Your critical thinking is somewhat lacking.
Let’s break this down. We kept him. By definition that is ‘keeping him’. |
I think you might have missed the OP and reply.
We could have let him go at that level of risk, or kept him without that level of spend.., only Brighton know the answer to that…, but can’t imagine their decision is keeping them up at night.
Us. Less so. £5 million a year off PSR and muddy thinking at best. | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:54 - Apr 11 with 1013 views | NthQldITFC |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:31 - Apr 11 by darkhorse28 |
You do know owner will be objective, and not emotionally invested like we are.
As an owner. He’s spent £150 million, the most of any club in that position, touted his services whilst under contract last summer, to secure the 5th best contact in the league, and one of the best in Europe, having only managed at EFL level, that’s unprecedented.
He’s taken that record level of investment and coached a group to get measurably worse the longer they’ve been together, culminating in one league win at home all season, one of the lowest points totals ever, and a new club record for consecutive home defeats.., which hasn’t ended yet.
The talent ID has been truly awful, and owners don’t like setting fire to £100 million plus if we exclude Delap.
In all seriousness - as good as last season was, would you give him a job in the EPL??? You’d need to be bonkers, there isn’t an owner in the world would take that risk.., and why have the group got worse the longer they’ve been together?? .., it’s a bizarre level of blind faith. I wonder if some fans never saw our genuinely talented teams, and are so starved of success they think this is what it looks like.., we’ll be a long time out of the EPL if our talent ID doesn’t improve 100 fold.., clubs no bigger than us like Forest, Brighton, Bournemouth, Fulham, Brentford, are leagues ahead of us, and spending much less too.., except Brighton. The funny thing is, none of these are opinions.
They’re not conjecture. They’re measures. Metrics, the optics of how we’ve actually done over an entire season. The religious like conviction to failure, won’t help us become an elite club again.., it’s the opposite. We need drastic improvement in areas KM seems to acknowledge as obvious weaknesses. |
The 'owner'? "an owner"? "He?"
Can I clarify, which club are you talking about?
I mean... |  |
| |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 23:01 - Apr 11 with 992 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:42 - Apr 11 by darkhorse28 |
I don’t know how you do it Phil. You deserve a medal the size of a dustbin lid. I used to get the physical fanzine, and have followed almost daily ever since, a great source of information, and a wonderful resource, there should be an MBE for community services at the very least.., but honestly, what is wrong with people?
I’m liberal minded .., and I’ve spent years sticking up for this forum, when it’s often described as a liberal echo chamber of factional hatred and intolerance, but it’s true isn’t it. Lots of reductive tribal crap at least, it’s like football is just a vague proxy for some people.
There can only be one narrative, and ad hominem attacks are normal, any alternative views aren’t tolerated ., not even 1% .., it’s like a rabbit hole of confirmation bias and a living breathing homage to ‘lord of the flies’ .., I didn’t even post for engagement, just to vent at selling the best asset we’ve had in decades for half his market value. Anyway, good luck buddy, keep fighting the good fight.., and I’ll try again in another decade .., it’s like as a society, we’ve 100% lost the ability to just agree to disagree.., I blame Brexit (that will get an up vote as a curtain bow). |
This is definitely your only account on here. What was your previously banned name champ? |  | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 23:22 - Apr 11 with 945 views | darkhorse28 |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 21:51 - Apr 11 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Not only is much of this conjecture, but much of it is just plain wrong.
Of the other clubs you listed, take a look at what they’ve spent over the past few seasons, and the value of the squads. They are a country mile ahead of us.
This seriously verges on trolling. [Post edited 11 Apr 22:35]
|
In Wolves’ case they had three years where they spent crocs £15 million combined.
But it’s not just the money. It’s the quality.
Wolves have Mendez, Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, Fulham, Forest (who did it in one transfer window, so it can be done, albeit by the skin of their teeth).
What did Mitoma cost, direct from Japan, for £3 million. Mbeuno, he was £7 million. There are scores and scores of examples.
They all have talent if networks which are exceptional, and global. How many players have Brighton signed for £10 million or less that they’ve sold for ten fold their investment?
We didn’t have a global reach, and it’s now a minimum requirement at this level, it’s not desirable, it’s 100% essential to have any chance of survival.
We had Ashton, so we had to pay over the odds, for English based talent, that simply isn’t good enough.
Mitoma and Mbeuno for a combined £10 million or Clarke, Philogene for a combined £30 million. That must be £120 million V’s £20 million now, didn’t Brighton turn down £70 million for Mitoma?
That’s why they’re in Europe and we’ll be playing Wrexham…, it’s quality and price…, they get exceptional value, higher quality, lower prices.
We paid more for lower quality, because we only operate in the EFL for recruitment. | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 23:36 - Apr 11 with 915 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 22:51 - Apr 11 by darkhorse28 |
I think you might have missed the OP and reply.
We could have let him go at that level of risk, or kept him without that level of spend.., only Brighton know the answer to that…, but can’t imagine their decision is keeping them up at night.
Us. Less so. £5 million a year off PSR and muddy thinking at best. |
Nope, nothing missed, and in the context of your post my reply stands.
You also have your figures wrong https://www.givemesport.com/premier-league-managers-salary/
I suspect there will be a relegation reduction clause also. | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 23:49 - Apr 11 with 892 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 23:22 - Apr 11 by darkhorse28 |
In Wolves’ case they had three years where they spent crocs £15 million combined.
But it’s not just the money. It’s the quality.
Wolves have Mendez, Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, Fulham, Forest (who did it in one transfer window, so it can be done, albeit by the skin of their teeth).
What did Mitoma cost, direct from Japan, for £3 million. Mbeuno, he was £7 million. There are scores and scores of examples.
They all have talent if networks which are exceptional, and global. How many players have Brighton signed for £10 million or less that they’ve sold for ten fold their investment?
We didn’t have a global reach, and it’s now a minimum requirement at this level, it’s not desirable, it’s 100% essential to have any chance of survival.
We had Ashton, so we had to pay over the odds, for English based talent, that simply isn’t good enough.
Mitoma and Mbeuno for a combined £10 million or Clarke, Philogene for a combined £30 million. That must be £120 million V’s £20 million now, didn’t Brighton turn down £70 million for Mitoma?
That’s why they’re in Europe and we’ll be playing Wrexham…, it’s quality and price…, they get exceptional value, higher quality, lower prices.
We paid more for lower quality, because we only operate in the EFL for recruitment. |
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1/
Unlike other, more established clubs, we’ve not had assets to sell. Years in L1, and passing through the Championship in a season has resulted in no time to develop a squad, or players that can be sold for a good return.
Wolves - over half a billion spent on players over that period, helped by having years to turn players for a good profit.
Forest - yes they managed a lot in one season, but only by ignoring PSR, and had that points deduction relegated them, they would probably be in serious financial difficulty now.
Your perspective is very selective, and twisted. | | | |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 10:46 - Apr 12 with 718 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| I wonder what McKennas relegation release clause is on 16:09 - Apr 10 by blueasfook |
the prospect of being downvoted and ridiculed maybe put him off all that time? |
Certainly overcome that fear if that was the case! |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
