| This City points deduction. 09:42 - Apr 11 with 2240 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
It's going to save us soooooo much money!
When is the announcement due? |  |
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| This City points deduction. on 09:48 - Apr 11 with 2183 views | SitfcB |
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| This City points deduction. on 09:54 - Apr 11 with 2135 views | _clive_baker_ |
We won't need it, Cunha's got a 4 game ban. |  | | |
| This City points deduction. on 10:26 - Apr 11 with 2006 views | Linners |
| This City points deduction. on 09:48 - Apr 11 by SitfcB |
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So they get found guilty during one season (potentially) yet the points deduction (if any) comes into effect in a different season? Imagine a scenario where the team in 18th next season stays up because of it...I imagine our owners might consult a lawyer or two... |  | | |
| This City points deduction. on 10:29 - Apr 11 with 1975 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| This City points deduction. on 10:26 - Apr 11 by Linners |
So they get found guilty during one season (potentially) yet the points deduction (if any) comes into effect in a different season? Imagine a scenario where the team in 18th next season stays up because of it...I imagine our owners might consult a lawyer or two... |
Although my heart's with you, my head has to disagree.
These charges relate to over a decade of (alleged) offences, but probably none relate to this season. So, the teams with potential claims are those in the years that it directly affected them.
In reality this is a complex mess, and who knows where it will ultimately lead. |  | | |
| This City points deduction. on 10:32 - Apr 11 with 1948 views | BseaBlue |
Same time as the Lazio friendly... |  | | |
| This City points deduction. on 10:34 - Apr 11 with 1932 views | berkstractorboy |
| This City points deduction. on 10:26 - Apr 11 by Linners |
So they get found guilty during one season (potentially) yet the points deduction (if any) comes into effect in a different season? Imagine a scenario where the team in 18th next season stays up because of it...I imagine our owners might consult a lawyer or two... |
If none of the charges are for this season then I think it would be argued we shouldn't benefit.
It will be a total nightmare as the charges span a few season so how do you work our which clubs were truly impacted by City breaking the rules. To save this scenario whatever points punishment comes, if any, it will be manipulated so City never in danger of going down in any of the seasons since the charges started so the EPL can say that no team were actually punished by relegation when they should have stayed up.
Then of course all the other clubs over each season may claim to have lost a place of prize money each season where City should have been deducted points and finished below them hence the clubs are due money as compensation for lost income (impacting their own PSR).
It's just so so complex.
Really these things need to be charged and dealt with inside the same season so the outcome affects those in the same league not another team that was relegated and maybe shouldn't have been. | | | |
| This City points deduction. on 10:39 - Apr 11 with 1885 views | _clive_baker_ |
| This City points deduction. on 10:29 - Apr 11 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Although my heart's with you, my head has to disagree.
These charges relate to over a decade of (alleged) offences, but probably none relate to this season. So, the teams with potential claims are those in the years that it directly affected them.
In reality this is a complex mess, and who knows where it will ultimately lead. |
You're right, and the speed at which this rule breaking gets punished makes it all the more complex. How do you begin to quantify how much they benefitted from cheating? And it's probably not the sides in 18th that can have the biggest grumbles when it comes to clubs like Man City, its the clubs that finished 2nd in the Premier league or beaten in cup finals etc and potentially denied titles, financial gain, 'brand' equity etc.
I think Leicester can feel pretty shafted. They finished 4 points below Forest in 22/23 and with a better GD. Forest cheated that year, for which they were punished the following season with a 4 point penalty. If that cheating was worth 4 points it would've sent them down in the period in question and kept Leicester up. Mind you Leicester also cheated in the same season, so they don't have a leg to stand on.
Its a complex mess indeed. | | | |
| This City points deduction. on 10:51 - Apr 11 with 1754 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| This City points deduction. on 09:54 - Apr 11 by _clive_baker_ |
We won't need it, Cunha's got a 4 game ban. |
So funny but it hurts so much. |  |
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| This City points deduction. on 10:51 - Apr 11 with 1754 views | hype313 |
| This City points deduction. on 10:26 - Apr 11 by Linners |
So they get found guilty during one season (potentially) yet the points deduction (if any) comes into effect in a different season? Imagine a scenario where the team in 18th next season stays up because of it...I imagine our owners might consult a lawyer or two... |
This goes back 15 years, so whoever finishes 18th next season will behind a queue of clubs armed with Lawyers.
It's an absolute mess, which is why it's taken so long, maybe why the PL are dragging their heels, they know an absolute sh1tstorm is awaiting them in the eventuality that City get found guilty. |  |
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| This City points deduction. on 11:24 - Apr 11 with 1546 views | NeedhamChris |
| This City points deduction. on 09:54 - Apr 11 by _clive_baker_ |
We won't need it, Cunha's got a 4 game ban. |
Hey Texters! | |
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| This City points deduction. on 11:46 - Apr 11 with 1434 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| This City points deduction. on 10:26 - Apr 11 by Linners |
So they get found guilty during one season (potentially) yet the points deduction (if any) comes into effect in a different season? Imagine a scenario where the team in 18th next season stays up because of it...I imagine our owners might consult a lawyer or two... |
The allegations relate to 2009 -2018, so there's no reason the points deduction needs to be this season.
I think it makes sense to give such a points deduction at the start of a season. And perhaps the Premier League feel an appeal is less likely if City have a chance of staying up.
Of course.... they have to be found guilty first. |  |
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| This City points deduction. on 11:46 - Apr 11 with 1432 views | OldFart71 |
| This City points deduction. on 10:39 - Apr 11 by _clive_baker_ |
You're right, and the speed at which this rule breaking gets punished makes it all the more complex. How do you begin to quantify how much they benefitted from cheating? And it's probably not the sides in 18th that can have the biggest grumbles when it comes to clubs like Man City, its the clubs that finished 2nd in the Premier league or beaten in cup finals etc and potentially denied titles, financial gain, 'brand' equity etc.
I think Leicester can feel pretty shafted. They finished 4 points below Forest in 22/23 and with a better GD. Forest cheated that year, for which they were punished the following season with a 4 point penalty. If that cheating was worth 4 points it would've sent them down in the period in question and kept Leicester up. Mind you Leicester also cheated in the same season, so they don't have a leg to stand on.
Its a complex mess indeed. |
Surely as with a court fine it's expected to be paid when the verdict is announced. So no retrospective points deduction that would affect teams relegated in past seasons and even when whatever penalties are given they will be open to challenges by City which could drag on for many seasons. | | | |
| This City points deduction. on 11:48 - Apr 11 with 1415 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| This City points deduction. on 10:29 - Apr 11 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Although my heart's with you, my head has to disagree.
These charges relate to over a decade of (alleged) offences, but probably none relate to this season. So, the teams with potential claims are those in the years that it directly affected them.
In reality this is a complex mess, and who knows where it will ultimately lead. |
Agreed, the period of the alleged offences is 2009-2018. | |
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| This City points deduction. on 12:41 - Apr 11 with 1233 views | Basuco |
| This City points deduction. on 11:46 - Apr 11 by OldFart71 |
Surely as with a court fine it's expected to be paid when the verdict is announced. So no retrospective points deduction that would affect teams relegated in past seasons and even when whatever penalties are given they will be open to challenges by City which could drag on for many seasons. |
You are assuming that the Premier League is run according to a hard set of rules and regulations, it is not, it is a loose interpretation of vague words based on which club they are referring to and what outcome they wish to present at a given time. |  | | |
| This City points deduction. on 12:50 - Apr 11 with 1191 views | The_Major |
I suspect it'll break this afternoon following news of a sighting of Gabriel Batistuta at Playford Road. |  | | |
| This City points deduction. on 13:12 - Apr 11 with 1101 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| This City points deduction. on 11:46 - Apr 11 by OldFart71 |
Surely as with a court fine it's expected to be paid when the verdict is announced. So no retrospective points deduction that would affect teams relegated in past seasons and even when whatever penalties are given they will be open to challenges by City which could drag on for many seasons. |
There will end up being two parts to this.
This first is (reasonably) straightforward, and that is the punishment handed out if found guilty. That will be applied at the time of the punishment being announced one would think, and subject to potential appeal of course. Those ITK suggest that this has to be a large points deduction, as a fine won't be material for ManC. There may also be multiple punishments, as there is an array of different offences in the charges. So maybe we see transfer embargos, titles stripped, etc, etc.
The second element is the really hot sh1tstorm - legal action from those clubs that feel they were materially impacted by their actions. Lost titles, knocked out of / losing in the cups, relegation (maybe harder to claim, but if - for example - it could be argued that all games involving ManC should be considered null & void, how does that re-order the table in previous years), etc And that's without even considering the more indirect impact - how might their actions have influenced some transfers?
The implications are massive. [Post edited 11 Apr 13:15]
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| This City points deduction. on 13:54 - Apr 11 with 985 views | Pinewoodblue |
| This City points deduction. on 13:12 - Apr 11 by SuffolkPunchFC |
There will end up being two parts to this.
This first is (reasonably) straightforward, and that is the punishment handed out if found guilty. That will be applied at the time of the punishment being announced one would think, and subject to potential appeal of course. Those ITK suggest that this has to be a large points deduction, as a fine won't be material for ManC. There may also be multiple punishments, as there is an array of different offences in the charges. So maybe we see transfer embargos, titles stripped, etc, etc.
The second element is the really hot sh1tstorm - legal action from those clubs that feel they were materially impacted by their actions. Lost titles, knocked out of / losing in the cups, relegation (maybe harder to claim, but if - for example - it could be argued that all games involving ManC should be considered null & void, how does that re-order the table in previous years), etc And that's without even considering the more indirect impact - how might their actions have influenced some transfers?
The implications are massive. [Post edited 11 Apr 13:15]
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One possible punishment is bring kicked out of the Premier League.
It would be better for this to happen this season as Man City playing 38 meaningless games next season would damage the reputation of the Premier League.
It is by no means certain Town will finish 18th, Leicester have a reputation for falling in the sh1te and coming out smelling of roses.
Should Man City win any appeal it would be better to have 21 clubs in next season Premier League, with an extra couple of fixtures for each club. |  |
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| This City points deduction. on 14:05 - Apr 11 with 956 views | SenatorBlue |
| This City points deduction. on 13:54 - Apr 11 by Pinewoodblue |
One possible punishment is bring kicked out of the Premier League.
It would be better for this to happen this season as Man City playing 38 meaningless games next season would damage the reputation of the Premier League.
It is by no means certain Town will finish 18th, Leicester have a reputation for falling in the sh1te and coming out smelling of roses.
Should Man City win any appeal it would be better to have 21 clubs in next season Premier League, with an extra couple of fixtures for each club. |
Imagine if they "technically" won the title next season, only to be relegated. That would make a mockery of the whole season, and they'd live off it forever more. Straw clutching, but I can't see it being anything other than this season, or never. [Post edited 11 Apr 14:05]
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| This City points deduction. on 14:40 - Apr 11 with 862 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| This City points deduction. on 13:54 - Apr 11 by Pinewoodblue |
One possible punishment is bring kicked out of the Premier League.
It would be better for this to happen this season as Man City playing 38 meaningless games next season would damage the reputation of the Premier League.
It is by no means certain Town will finish 18th, Leicester have a reputation for falling in the sh1te and coming out smelling of roses.
Should Man City win any appeal it would be better to have 21 clubs in next season Premier League, with an extra couple of fixtures for each club. |
They could be kicked out, but most experts seem to think this is unlikely. It also means that the EFL would have to accept them. A massive points deduction is more likely (than being kicked out), relegating them (in which case there is no need for the EFL to accept them).
There won't a decision / penalty soon enough to be applied this season - nothing is expected until the summer, by which time clubs will be committed to a strategy for the league they will be in. | | | |
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