| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read 08:36 - May 31 with 5228 views | Bellevue_Blue |
Finally we can all put this one to bed.
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:25 - May 31 with 973 views | pointofblue |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:02 - May 31 by Horsham |
He also said ‘hell yeah’ when asked if players would only leave on our terms.
I’m not really sure why Ashton was so bullish at the time as it didn’t need to be said. That was a mistake in my opinion. |
Agree with this. It's not as though it would affect the club's bargaining position. Perhaps he was protecting Delap, as the criticism seemed to go up a notch when the release clause became more widely known. | |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:36 - May 31 with 962 views | Trequartista |
I've been wanging on about this. Happy to know we will get future dividends (unless he stays for the length of his potential 9 year contract at Chelsea!), so that's put to bed for me.
[Post edited 31 May 13:37]
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:37 - May 31 with 937 views | Trequartista |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:02 - May 31 by Horsham |
He also said ‘hell yeah’ when asked if players would only leave on our terms.
I’m not really sure why Ashton was so bullish at the time as it didn’t need to be said. That was a mistake in my opinion. |
I thought hell yeah was Ed Miliband standing up to Putin | |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:38 - May 31 with 933 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:02 - May 31 by Horsham |
He also said ‘hell yeah’ when asked if players would only leave on our terms.
I’m not really sure why Ashton was so bullish at the time as it didn’t need to be said. That was a mistake in my opinion. |
If I wanted to be pedantic (and I do), then you could argue that Delap 'left on our terms'. It just happens that those terms were agreed at the time he was signed.
We accepted those sign-on terms, and he has now left on that basis - which the club and owners knew from the point they agreed to sign him. Those were the agreed terms. We have not been forced to sell him at anything less than the terms we agreed from the start. | | | |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:39 - May 31 with 931 views | Trequartista |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 09:00 - May 31 by Metal_Hacker |
Kind of what the sensible folk knew already |
I don't remember any posters on here replying to the "well protected" question, with "it means future dividends" unless I've missed it. | |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:45 - May 31 with 922 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:39 - May 31 by Trequartista |
I don't remember any posters on here replying to the "well protected" question, with "it means future dividends" unless I've missed it. |
I can't be bothered to search through all the threads/posts (there have been hundreds of them if you'd not noticed), but many of us have posted that until we know the details of the contracts, we won't know what else might be part of the transfer that could be construed as 'well protected'. And yes, the potential that a future sell-on clause to benefit us was suggested more than once. | | | |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:55 - May 31 with 902 views | Trequartista |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:45 - May 31 by SuffolkPunchFC |
I can't be bothered to search through all the threads/posts (there have been hundreds of them if you'd not noticed), but many of us have posted that until we know the details of the contracts, we won't know what else might be part of the transfer that could be construed as 'well protected'. And yes, the potential that a future sell-on clause to benefit us was suggested more than once. |
Strange you didn't mention the sell on that when you replied to my direct question a couple of days ago
(No subject) (n/t) by SuffolkPunchFC 29 May 20:42You’d have to ask MA that question.
For what it’s worth (and it’s down to perspective), we’ve had Delap’s services for a season, and now get £27M back into the coffers for further player investment. That’s pretty good protection for what was an unproven player last summer.
Far too many people have inflated expectations with the benefit of hindsight.
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:55 - May 31 with 902 views | Horsham |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:38 - May 31 by SuffolkPunchFC |
If I wanted to be pedantic (and I do), then you could argue that Delap 'left on our terms'. It just happens that those terms were agreed at the time he was signed.
We accepted those sign-on terms, and he has now left on that basis - which the club and owners knew from the point they agreed to sign him. Those were the agreed terms. We have not been forced to sell him at anything less than the terms we agreed from the start. |
To be absolutely clear I’m not saying the deal for Delap was a bad deal.
If you context the Delap deal versus the others we did in terms of ROI it absolutely spanks every other transfer we did this season and would be up there with the best we’ve ever done. It would be nice if it had been better but I presume we did what we could.
But I’d maintain that Ashton could have done a lot better with the well protected interview. |  | | |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:06 - May 31 with 883 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:55 - May 31 by Trequartista |
Strange you didn't mention the sell on that when you replied to my direct question a couple of days ago
(No subject) (n/t) by SuffolkPunchFC 29 May 20:42You’d have to ask MA that question.
For what it’s worth (and it’s down to perspective), we’ve had Delap’s services for a season, and now get £27M back into the coffers for further player investment. That’s pretty good protection for what was an unproven player last summer.
Far too many people have inflated expectations with the benefit of hindsight.
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Why repeat things that have been said many time before - there is a huge problem with people making multiple threads about the same thing (again, if you hadn't noticed), and I'm not going to waste my time writing the same thing time and time again if people can't be bothered to search through the other threads. [Post edited 31 May 12:29]
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:11 - May 31 with 863 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:55 - May 31 by Horsham |
To be absolutely clear I’m not saying the deal for Delap was a bad deal.
If you context the Delap deal versus the others we did in terms of ROI it absolutely spanks every other transfer we did this season and would be up there with the best we’ve ever done. It would be nice if it had been better but I presume we did what we could.
But I’d maintain that Ashton could have done a lot better with the well protected interview. |
My comment was a 'little' tongue-in-cheek 
But I do agree, in the interview he was maybe a little too ambiguous, and it did result in allowing people to set their expectations badly. | | | |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:15 - May 31 with 851 views | Trequartista |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:06 - May 31 by SuffolkPunchFC |
Why repeat things that have been said many time before - there is a huge problem with people making multiple threads about the same thing (again, if you hadn't noticed), and I'm not going to waste my time writing the same thing time and time again if people can't be bothered to search through the other threads. [Post edited 31 May 12:29]
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I agree, I think there is certainly some doubling-down going on here! | |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:23 - May 31 with 851 views | Guthrum |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 11:36 - May 31 by Trequartista |
I've been wanging on about this. Happy to know we will get future dividends (unless he stays for the length of his potential 9 year contract at Chelsea!), so that's put to bed for me.
[Post edited 31 May 13:37]
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Even if he did, there could perhaps be some top-ups for things like appearances, international call-ups, etc. We don't (and likely never will*) know the exact structure of the trigger arrangement, when the fee has to be paid, sell-on clause and and any additions.
* Unless Delap writes a very detailed memoir, or it ends up in court for some reason. |  |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:30 - May 31 with 825 views | Trequartista |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:23 - May 31 by Guthrum |
Even if he did, there could perhaps be some top-ups for things like appearances, international call-ups, etc. We don't (and likely never will*) know the exact structure of the trigger arrangement, when the fee has to be paid, sell-on clause and and any additions.
* Unless Delap writes a very detailed memoir, or it ends up in court for some reason. |
The £30m clause was common knowledge though. Agree you don't really hear when top-ups are triggered, but sometimes they become apparent e.g. when a player is left out as they are 1 appearance away from a trigger, or a payment turns up in the club accounts. | |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:44 - May 31 with 794 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:15 - May 31 by Trequartista |
I agree, I think there is certainly some doubling-down going on here! |
b) insert a sell-on of 50% of any future sales
Well, no by SuffolkPunchFC 10 Apr 11:22OK, so I don't think it's as simple as this - Herbivore and I disagree on this, but amicably closed it out as agreeing to disagree [wink].
In my opinion (with some experience of writing complex contracts, albeit not football contracts), it will depend on any other related clauses.
If there is a clause that says something like :
'In the event of the club being relegated at the end of season 2024/25, and the club receiving an unconditional offer for the player of at least £30,000,000, then said player may enter negotiations of personal terms, and on successful conclusion of personal terms, must be released from their contract with the club"
If this clause stands in isolation, then Delap will be sold at £30M, and no more - even if other clubs show interest.
However, there may be other clauses that are triggered by the release clause, for example :
"In the event of x.x.x Release Clause, the club has the right to :
a) solicit improved offers from other clubs
b) insert a sell-on of 50% of any future sales
c) ... "
The language would be far more intricate as a legal document, but you'll get the gist of what I'm suggestion.
This is all speculation on my part, and we'll have to wait to see what happens with any sale, but no-one can really have any idea of how a Delep sale will go without having the FULL contract in front of them. Snippets that may have been released to the media are just that - small headlines in isolation.
I'm not trying to put positive spin on the situation - just adding some balance, and suggesting that nothing can be concluded without intimate knowledge of the entire contract(s).
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 13:05 - May 31 with 766 views | Trequartista |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:44 - May 31 by SuffolkPunchFC |
b) insert a sell-on of 50% of any future sales
Well, no by SuffolkPunchFC 10 Apr 11:22OK, so I don't think it's as simple as this - Herbivore and I disagree on this, but amicably closed it out as agreeing to disagree [wink].
In my opinion (with some experience of writing complex contracts, albeit not football contracts), it will depend on any other related clauses.
If there is a clause that says something like :
'In the event of the club being relegated at the end of season 2024/25, and the club receiving an unconditional offer for the player of at least £30,000,000, then said player may enter negotiations of personal terms, and on successful conclusion of personal terms, must be released from their contract with the club"
If this clause stands in isolation, then Delap will be sold at £30M, and no more - even if other clubs show interest.
However, there may be other clauses that are triggered by the release clause, for example :
"In the event of x.x.x Release Clause, the club has the right to :
a) solicit improved offers from other clubs
b) insert a sell-on of 50% of any future sales
c) ... "
The language would be far more intricate as a legal document, but you'll get the gist of what I'm suggestion.
This is all speculation on my part, and we'll have to wait to see what happens with any sale, but no-one can really have any idea of how a Delep sale will go without having the FULL contract in front of them. Snippets that may have been released to the media are just that - small headlines in isolation.
I'm not trying to put positive spin on the situation - just adding some balance, and suggesting that nothing can be concluded without intimate knowledge of the entire contract(s).
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I don't think that thread is a reply to the "well protected" question, and I hadn't seen that post, and I can only go on your direct reply to me (and others on that thread) from two days ago.
But I'm not a doubler-downer (if that's a word) so what I will say is that is a very good post you made in April, particularly the detail about how a clause might work. I had assumed a sell-on would be a new negotiation for the new contract, and hadn't considered it might be baked into the current contract (which would make the "we are protected" rather than "we will be protected" make more sense). [Post edited 31 May 13:06]
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 13:24 - May 31 with 726 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 10:07 - May 31 by _clive_baker_ |
Appreciate your post is tongue in cheek but being a chartered accountant doesn’t give anyone any knowledge of the intricacies of football contracts, especially when armed with the same limited information as anyone else.
I say this as a chartered accountant myself. |
I knew a chartered accountant once and he was always constipated.
Luckily, he could work it out with a pencil. |  |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 15:56 - May 31 with 657 views | BlueBadger |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 13:24 - May 31 by Swansea_Blue |
I knew a chartered accountant once and he was always constipated.
Luckily, he could work it out with a pencil. |
'Vorderman's manoeuvre' we call that round here. |  |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 16:07 - May 31 with 646 views | Herbivore |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 09:52 - May 31 by pointofblue |
I understand why we had to agree to the deal. I wish Ashton hadn't spouted that "well protected" line as we look anything but. |
In what way are we not well protected? Circa £10m in profit in one year after relegation and a further sell on I would say looks pretty well protected. Well protected doesn't mean we're getting absolute maximum value for him, but the chances of that died when we went down even if he'd not had a release clause. |  |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 17:33 - May 31 with 549 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 16:07 - May 31 by Herbivore |
In what way are we not well protected? Circa £10m in profit in one year after relegation and a further sell on I would say looks pretty well protected. Well protected doesn't mean we're getting absolute maximum value for him, but the chances of that died when we went down even if he'd not had a release clause. |
To me it looks as well protected as it possibly could've been. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 17:45 - May 31 with 536 views | PhilTWTD |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 12:30 - May 31 by Trequartista |
The £30m clause was common knowledge though. Agree you don't really hear when top-ups are triggered, but sometimes they become apparent e.g. when a player is left out as they are 1 appearance away from a trigger, or a payment turns up in the club accounts. |
I've wondered whether Liam might have been left out of the last two starting line-ups as a result of a milestone being hit. As you say, we'll probably not know. |  | | |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 17:48 - May 31 with 518 views | PioneerBlue |
It could be a very long burn. He is unlikely to see out his career at Chelsea, if the trajectory is worth talking about he’s likely to be sold for a few quid at some stage when we might get a bit more cash. | |
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 19:18 - May 31 with 460 views | Trequartista |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 17:45 - May 31 by PhilTWTD |
I've wondered whether Liam might have been left out of the last two starting line-ups as a result of a milestone being hit. As you say, we'll probably not know. |
If I had to bet I'd say no.
Firstly the milestone would have to only be games started rather than appearances which would be a bit odd, but not unheard of. It would also be odd to not be a number divisible by 10, or at least 5, and he's started 32 matches (all league starts).
Secondly I think Hirst needing more game time to develop him for next season was a valid reason. [Post edited 31 May 19:19]
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| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 19:31 - May 31 with 450 views | PhilTWTD |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 19:18 - May 31 by Trequartista |
If I had to bet I'd say no.
Firstly the milestone would have to only be games started rather than appearances which would be a bit odd, but not unheard of. It would also be odd to not be a number divisible by 10, or at least 5, and he's started 32 matches (all league starts).
Secondly I think Hirst needing more game time to develop him for next season was a valid reason. [Post edited 31 May 19:19]
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I don't disagree, 33 wouldn't be an obvious figure but you never know where a negotiation might stop. But I think LD had been absent from training while he met clubs and Hirst was needing game time, as you say. | | | |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 22:48 - May 31 with 317 views | stonojnr |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 09:00 - May 31 by Metal_Hacker |
Kind of what the sensible folk knew already |
well admittely they were norwich fans so the sensible folk part is already gone, but I had to listen to a group of norwich fans in the pub today gloat that we'd lost millions on the deal, they presumably get all their "facts" from the pinkun.
but its the classic example of the facts dont matter to some if it suits their agenda on it, and there was no correcting them on it, and I suspect alot of the "dont like Ashton town fans" will be similar.
quite frankly even if we'd broke even on the deal Id have been more than happy, as alot of people forget the reaction when we signed him. | | | |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 10:31 - Jun 1 with 157 views | only_one_sir_bobby |
| Ashton on Delap release clause and 'well protected' line ... free to read on 19:31 - May 31 by PhilTWTD |
I don't disagree, 33 wouldn't be an obvious figure but you never know where a negotiation might stop. But I think LD had been absent from training while he met clubs and Hirst was needing game time, as you say. |
It could also have been a % of league starts being the milestone, as well as certain number of appearances total.
So for instance, say part of the clause was to start more than 85% of league games, that would equate to 33 games. How many did LD start? 32.... | | | |
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