| And now, the glass half empty 10:50 - Jun 19 with 5292 views | itfc_bucks |
Realistically, I'm not convinced we're any stronger in the Championship than we were last time out and, frankly, we had a season build on tremendous team spirit and a boatload of luck (except for penalties, which we're apparently not allowed anymore).
Is Greaves an upgrade on Cam?
We're weaker in the middle of the park (as it stands) than last time out.
We have a plethora of lightweight wingers, who despite the hype, I'm far from convinced by.
Long term injuries to Burns and Ogbene, who might never get back to where they were.
Our forward line has more than a few concerns in terms of both talent and availability.
I'm sure we'll make signings, but let's really not get ahead of ourselves... |  | | |  |
| And now, the glass half empty on 12:12 - Jun 19 with 1351 views | baxterbasics |
Striker shortage aside, we have a monster attack full of Championship bossmen. Provided the injury situation improves and none of our AMs want away (particular nod to Omari) then we should be fine. |  |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 12:23 - Jun 19 with 1319 views | Parmigiano |
| And now, the glass half empty on 12:12 - Jun 19 by baxterbasics |
Striker shortage aside, we have a monster attack full of Championship bossmen. Provided the injury situation improves and none of our AMs want away (particular nod to Omari) then we should be fine. |
Absolutely.
And even if Omari does go, we still have Clarke, Philogene, Broadhead, Szmodics, Chaplin, Burns and Ogbene fighting for three positions. Which is ridiculous. All seven would walk into every other team in the league. |  | | |
| And now, the glass half empty on 12:42 - Jun 19 with 1248 views | Coastalblue |
This is so Ipswich/Suffolk.
For the first time in years and years we go into a season arguably stronger for the league we're about to compete in than most of our rivals and there's doom and gloom?
If you can't enjoy this current era then maybe a different interest?
As for no stronger than last time out, I disagree but last time out we got automatic promotion. |  |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 12:56 - Jun 19 with 1188 views | baxterbasics |
| And now, the glass half empty on 12:42 - Jun 19 by Coastalblue |
This is so Ipswich/Suffolk.
For the first time in years and years we go into a season arguably stronger for the league we're about to compete in than most of our rivals and there's doom and gloom?
If you can't enjoy this current era then maybe a different interest?
As for no stronger than last time out, I disagree but last time out we got automatic promotion. |
It's not something we are used to, being favourites, so it's taking a bit of adjusting! | |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 13:18 - Jun 19 with 1148 views | Lord_Lucan |
Half empty or half full?
Same same
Anyway, as a borderline alcoholic it's panic stations either way. |  |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 13:19 - Jun 19 with 1128 views | BiGDonnie |
So, instead of getting ahead of ourselves we should be uber negative and start with the moaning? |  |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 13:26 - Jun 19 with 1118 views | NthQldITFC |
| And now, the glass half empty on 11:30 - Jun 19 by itfcjoe |
Squad at end of summer window in 2023 compared to now
GK -Hladky, Walton, Slicker
RB - Clarke, Donacien, WIlliams
LB - Davis
RCB - Woolfenden
LCB - Burgess, Edmundson
RCM - Ball, Morsy
LCM - Evans, Luongo, Taylor
RW - Burns, Jackson
R10 - Aluko, Chaplin, Hutchinson
L10 - Broadhead, Harness
ST - Hirst, Ladapo, Scarlett
Squad now
GK - Muric, Palmer, Slicker, Walton
RB - Johnson, (Tuanzebe), Clarke
LB - Davis, Townsend
RCB - O'Shea, Woolfenden
LCB - Greaves
RCM - Morsy
LCM - Taylor
RW - Philogene, Ogbene, Burns
R10 - Chaplin, Hutchinson
L10 - Broadhead, J.Clarke, Szmodics
ST - Hirst, Al-Hamadi
GK
The situation is a bit of a muddle, but we started that season with people wanting to go to the loan market to sign a keeper when Walton got injured. Talent wise we have 3 guys easily capable of being a number 1 in the Championship. In Muric's last season there he was in the team of the season. In 23/34 Palmer jointly won the golden glove with 18 clean sheets.
Verdict - Stronger
RB
Much of a muchness, had Williams been able to be available all season then he looked like he could be better than Johnson, but he wasn't. Tuanzebe signed after window shut, and is still not signed for next season
Verdict - Roughly the same
LB
Leif Davis is better than he was, we now have an excellent back up
Verdict - Stronger
RCB
Woolfenden has improved, O'Shea is better than him
Verdict - Stronger
LCB
At the moment it probably looks a bit weaker as not much between Burgess and Greaves and Edmundson was a good back up
Verdict - Weaker
RCM
Much of a muchness, Morsy has improved but no back up
Verdict - The same
LCM
Weaker currently
Verdict - Weaker
RW
Burns was far and away key man here, Jackson not really up to much, now Burns is prob number 3 in the pecking order
Verdict - Stronger
R10
Omari has gone on to a different level and if he stays will be the best player in the league
Verdict - Stronger
L10
Ridiculous difference - Marcus Harness replaced by Jack Clarke and Sam Szmodics. Ludicrous
Verdict - Stronger
ST
A lot riding on Hirst currently, but he looks like a top quality striker now when 2 years ago he was seen as a flop in the CHampionship having had 2 failed loans there
Verdict - About the same
Bearing in mind we haven't signed anyone yet, and will likely bring in 8-10 new players, every single one of those positions will be far stronger than they were in at this stage in 23/24 |
Excellent response, based on actual facts and considered assessments rather than angst. |  |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 13:32 - Jun 19 with 1093 views | Reuser_is_God |
| And now, the glass half empty on 11:31 - Jun 19 by Herbivore |
There's a narrative developing among some fans that 2023/24 was some kind of massive one-off fluke. It's very odd. I was at every home game that season, and bar a handful of exceptions, we battered most sides. For every deflection in our favour you can point to one that went against us. And don't get me started on our lack of penalties. |
Also, the OP referred to how difficult the championship is (rightly so) then contradicts themselves by saying it was due to luck that we went up last time. |  |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 13:48 - Jun 19 with 1062 views | TheBoyBlue |
Greaves will be an upgrade on Burgess, he's got 5 years on him and started fantastically last season, it was a pity that injury disrupted his season. Although I am sorry to see Cam go.
Philogene and Clarke have already shown how good they are in the Championship and are an upgrade on what we had and several years to get better too. It's whether they're up to the Premier League that was the issue, although as mentioned there is time to get better and besides I thought Clarke improved as the season grew.
You're right about Ogbene and Burns, that is always the danger after big injuries, but both of them could be like new signings at the start of next season, just without the need to settle in!
I imagine that we are looking to improve all round and this time round we will be far more attractive to the type of signings we want than we were two years ago when we'd only just come up from League 1.
None of this is to say we are guaranteed to go straight back up or even to be in with a chance, you never ever know in football and life in general. So much could happen. But I would say we are far better placed for a promotion push than we have been for many years, possibly ever. | |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 14:01 - Jun 19 with 1036 views | Vaughan8 |
Give it a couple of games (if even pre season ones) before you come out with this nonsense.
Just like people who do the "pick your team for the first game" nonsense.
Chill out. We don't know who is coming in/out yet. Those lightweight winders should be very good players in this league.
The Championship you get away with more, and get more opportunities. The gulf in class from PL to Championship works both ways.
I'll put my neck on the line and say players like Johnson, who were lrgely exposed in the PL, will be very good players in the league.....! [Post edited 19 Jun 14:01]
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| And now, the glass half empty on 09:47 - Jun 20 with 875 views | glasso |
What a bizarre take.
A good number of the first XI from last time around, still here. Strengthened with about 5 players who tore up the league last time around. Players and manager all have a season of Prem experience under their belt. Loads more money in the bank.
Yeah, we're probably relegation candidates.
Nobody with a brain is saying we'll walk the league. It's the Championship, and one of the reasons it's the best league in the world is that nobody knows what'll happen every year. But we should be up there or thereabouts.
It's mad that the same doom-mongers who say we were unprepared for the huge leap up to the Premier League, have suddenly forgotten that the Premier League is a huge step up and are basing their opinions on how we fared last season. | | | |
| And now, the glass half empty on 10:08 - Jun 20 with 849 views | Churchman |
It might help you in the angst department to look at the thread on worst loanees. Dross that was in some cases so bad it was funny. Then during Mick’s time he was having to take punts on Polish Pete, ‘Cokey’ (real bloke), Southend’s finest Anthony Wordsworth and dear old Frank Nouble. It’s all about perspective. Look at what we have now compared to that time?
We got the luck we deserved in 2023/24. No more no less, like every other team. We were promoted because we were the second best team and actually wiped the floor with a lot of the opposition. Please don’t denigrate that team and put anything to luck. It just isn’t true.
Others in this thread have looked at what we have and had then - overall we are stronger in the majority of areas. Do we need that midfield strengthening? Of course, not least because we’ve lost Luongo. But let’s not soak those bedsheets just yet - it’s only 20th June. [Post edited 20 Jun 12:14]
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| And now, the glass half empty on 11:22 - Jun 20 with 787 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
It's important to look at it more at the end of the transfer window than the start - and factor in that there may be 1 or 2 that will still need recruiting in the January window.
But although you've taken a battering on downvotes, I take your point on the team spirit that will have taken a confidence hit last season and will need a steady start to restore the higher levels.
We are also weaker in the middle of the park - but I don't think this will be a problem by the end of August.
I also take your point about the wingers. They weren't convincing last season, but perhaps the step up and fitting into a different role asked of them was all a bit too much leaving most of us less convinced. Their best performances have come in a Sunderland and Hull shirt respectively and sometimes it doesn't work out at another club the same way, but let's hope they can put in their best performances at Ipswich next season. If not, things don't always work out as expected and that's football.
Give it time, the squad will shape up over the summer. [Post edited 20 Jun 11:24]
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| And now, the glass half empty on 11:39 - Jun 20 with 746 views | OldFart71 |
The time to make any assumptions on where we are isn't right now. Lots of players have left, maybe a couple more might, but until we see who is brought in and when we are half a dozen games into the season we will all be able to make a more viable assumption of where we may end up.
But the Championship is a long gruelling season with many three games a week that is why it is essential we get in robust strong running players interspersed with tricky talented players and the cover we have for those is of a similar standard. | | | |
| And now, the glass half empty on 12:09 - Jun 20 with 696 views | Sharkey |
| And now, the glass half empty on 12:42 - Jun 19 by Coastalblue |
This is so Ipswich/Suffolk.
For the first time in years and years we go into a season arguably stronger for the league we're about to compete in than most of our rivals and there's doom and gloom?
If you can't enjoy this current era then maybe a different interest?
As for no stronger than last time out, I disagree but last time out we got automatic promotion. |
Shouldn't that be 'for the first time in three years..."? |  | | |
| And now, the glass half empty on 12:26 - Jun 20 with 669 views | baxterbasics |
| And now, the glass half empty on 11:31 - Jun 19 by Herbivore |
There's a narrative developing among some fans that 2023/24 was some kind of massive one-off fluke. It's very odd. I was at every home game that season, and bar a handful of exceptions, we battered most sides. For every deflection in our favour you can point to one that went against us. And don't get me started on our lack of penalties. |
"There's a narrative developing among some fans that 2023/24 was some kind of massive one-off fluke."
I agree it was not fluke or 'spawny' season like some other fans tried to suggest it was at the time.
But there was an element of certain things coming together and just working out in our favour for a change, which was nice. (Leeds falling apart, for example). Even if KM keeps working magic at this level and we have a good season ahead, I can't see us having a season quite like 23/24 again in terms of the achievement. Feels like a once-in-a-generation event. | |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 13:11 - Jun 20 with 602 views | Churchman |
| And now, the glass half empty on 12:26 - Jun 20 by baxterbasics |
"There's a narrative developing among some fans that 2023/24 was some kind of massive one-off fluke."
I agree it was not fluke or 'spawny' season like some other fans tried to suggest it was at the time.
But there was an element of certain things coming together and just working out in our favour for a change, which was nice. (Leeds falling apart, for example). Even if KM keeps working magic at this level and we have a good season ahead, I can't see us having a season quite like 23/24 again in terms of the achievement. Feels like a once-in-a-generation event. |
Things come together because you make them come together. That includes finding a replacement for our centre forward who we lost for half the season. The team was motivated, got on, were fit, had momentum and belief. That was a result good of management and in Hutchinson’s case good recruitment.
Leeds fell apart because they weren’t good enough to get the job done. They didn’t deserve anything more than they got in the play offs - and let’s face it, they were given a bye to the final, having only to stroll past the sorry shower up the road.
Luck plays no part in a 46 game season, any more than it does in the Premier League. For every good thing that happens there will be a kick in the gonads another time. We were relegated by a country mile last season because we were not good enough in any aspect. Simple as that.
We are in a different position to two years ago, but there is no reason why we shouldn’t have a good crack at the Championship again this year. It’s up to the owners, those running the club directly, manager and players. | | | |
| And now, the glass half empty on 13:16 - Jun 20 with 585 views | baxterbasics |
| And now, the glass half empty on 13:11 - Jun 20 by Churchman |
Things come together because you make them come together. That includes finding a replacement for our centre forward who we lost for half the season. The team was motivated, got on, were fit, had momentum and belief. That was a result good of management and in Hutchinson’s case good recruitment.
Leeds fell apart because they weren’t good enough to get the job done. They didn’t deserve anything more than they got in the play offs - and let’s face it, they were given a bye to the final, having only to stroll past the sorry shower up the road.
Luck plays no part in a 46 game season, any more than it does in the Premier League. For every good thing that happens there will be a kick in the gonads another time. We were relegated by a country mile last season because we were not good enough in any aspect. Simple as that.
We are in a different position to two years ago, but there is no reason why we shouldn’t have a good crack at the Championship again this year. It’s up to the owners, those running the club directly, manager and players. |
Guess that's all just a long winded way of saying
"The table doesn't lie!" | |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 13:23 - Jun 20 with 566 views | Churchman |
| And now, the glass half empty on 13:16 - Jun 20 by baxterbasics |
Guess that's all just a long winded way of saying
"The table doesn't lie!" |
Yep! 😃 | | | |
| And now, the glass half empty on 13:45 - Jun 20 with 545 views | Nutkins_Return |
If it helps rest your mind I can confirm you are just completely misunderstanding the calibre we had and the calibre we have now based on having seen them perform in completely different leagues.
The only thing we need is to fill the gaps with real quality e.g CM and Striking gaps. Squad whilst we will be miles stronger come close if window then last time in champ.
Best squad though does not equal promotion 100% of course. Taking off my jokingly patronising tone the bit we have to get back is the winning spirit. | |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 18:39 - Jun 20 with 413 views | PioneerBlue |
I do so hope Mark Ashton and KMck are checking this thread. It is important they know there are bunch of people with a range of views as to how strong the squad is going into the new season. I’m sure, what with all the hoohar of being promoted and relegated, all the infrastructure projects, working towards Cat1 academy and putting spades in the ground for a world class performance centre, and of course the hours spent coaching the team that it’s highly likely to have passed them by that the squad is in dire need of a total rebuild 🤦🏻♂️ | |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 18:45 - Jun 20 with 402 views | mellowblue |
Make your judgement when the window shuts, bit premature as clearly there are going to be quite a few changes made to the squad. | | | |
| And now, the glass half empty on 09:51 - Jun 21 with 242 views | darkhorse28 |
As things stand. You’ve 100% hit the nail on the head…, but it makes people feel bad, so if you can just say relegation is progress and toe the line please.
Cajuste, Phillips, Delap, O’Shea, Hutchinson, Tuenzabe, all won’t be here in August, and they’re our best players.
Muric, Clarke, Johnson and a plethora of players costing £150 million will be here.
And it’s hardly controversial to say our legacy group from before, are much older and in many cases know motivationally they won’t ever play at EPL level again because they’re too old, and not good enough.
Oh, and the manager is currently in conversations about leaving AGAIN.
But it’s progress…, we’re moving forwards, the emporer isn’t baked, he’s wearing something shiny, because any honest conversations, about legitimate concerns, feel bad.
The logical conclusion of the fears play out if we have to replace Ashton and McKenna and start the project again…, that’s one possible outcome.
Another is McKenna had money, can attract the right players and fix the issues,
I think we need to remember, he created them though, 700 lightweight wingers, whom he wants to play as inverted 10’s.., and spend years coaching that, and ONE player in a squad of 26 who can play his crucial double pivot roles, and he’s 34 …, and ven if we’re kind to KM (and we should be) that is woeful planning, truly woeful, it’s like his ego never processed that we might be relegated, and he believed his own hype.
Now we pay the price. As a group. | | | |
| And now, the glass half empty on 10:35 - Jun 21 with 216 views | Herbivore |
| And now, the glass half empty on 09:51 - Jun 21 by darkhorse28 |
As things stand. You’ve 100% hit the nail on the head…, but it makes people feel bad, so if you can just say relegation is progress and toe the line please.
Cajuste, Phillips, Delap, O’Shea, Hutchinson, Tuenzabe, all won’t be here in August, and they’re our best players.
Muric, Clarke, Johnson and a plethora of players costing £150 million will be here.
And it’s hardly controversial to say our legacy group from before, are much older and in many cases know motivationally they won’t ever play at EPL level again because they’re too old, and not good enough.
Oh, and the manager is currently in conversations about leaving AGAIN.
But it’s progress…, we’re moving forwards, the emporer isn’t baked, he’s wearing something shiny, because any honest conversations, about legitimate concerns, feel bad.
The logical conclusion of the fears play out if we have to replace Ashton and McKenna and start the project again…, that’s one possible outcome.
Another is McKenna had money, can attract the right players and fix the issues,
I think we need to remember, he created them though, 700 lightweight wingers, whom he wants to play as inverted 10’s.., and spend years coaching that, and ONE player in a squad of 26 who can play his crucial double pivot roles, and he’s 34 …, and ven if we’re kind to KM (and we should be) that is woeful planning, truly woeful, it’s like his ego never processed that we might be relegated, and he believed his own hype.
Now we pay the price. As a group. |
Get back to the Pink 'Un, mate. |  |
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| And now, the glass half empty on 15:07 - Jun 21 with 121 views | darkhorse28 |
| And now, the glass half empty on 11:30 - Jun 19 by itfcjoe |
Squad at end of summer window in 2023 compared to now
GK -Hladky, Walton, Slicker
RB - Clarke, Donacien, WIlliams
LB - Davis
RCB - Woolfenden
LCB - Burgess, Edmundson
RCM - Ball, Morsy
LCM - Evans, Luongo, Taylor
RW - Burns, Jackson
R10 - Aluko, Chaplin, Hutchinson
L10 - Broadhead, Harness
ST - Hirst, Ladapo, Scarlett
Squad now
GK - Muric, Palmer, Slicker, Walton
RB - Johnson, (Tuanzebe), Clarke
LB - Davis, Townsend
RCB - O'Shea, Woolfenden
LCB - Greaves
RCM - Morsy
LCM - Taylor
RW - Philogene, Ogbene, Burns
R10 - Chaplin, Hutchinson
L10 - Broadhead, J.Clarke, Szmodics
ST - Hirst, Al-Hamadi
GK
The situation is a bit of a muddle, but we started that season with people wanting to go to the loan market to sign a keeper when Walton got injured. Talent wise we have 3 guys easily capable of being a number 1 in the Championship. In Muric's last season there he was in the team of the season. In 23/34 Palmer jointly won the golden glove with 18 clean sheets.
Verdict - Stronger
RB
Much of a muchness, had Williams been able to be available all season then he looked like he could be better than Johnson, but he wasn't. Tuanzebe signed after window shut, and is still not signed for next season
Verdict - Roughly the same
LB
Leif Davis is better than he was, we now have an excellent back up
Verdict - Stronger
RCB
Woolfenden has improved, O'Shea is better than him
Verdict - Stronger
LCB
At the moment it probably looks a bit weaker as not much between Burgess and Greaves and Edmundson was a good back up
Verdict - Weaker
RCM
Much of a muchness, Morsy has improved but no back up
Verdict - The same
LCM
Weaker currently
Verdict - Weaker
RW
Burns was far and away key man here, Jackson not really up to much, now Burns is prob number 3 in the pecking order
Verdict - Stronger
R10
Omari has gone on to a different level and if he stays will be the best player in the league
Verdict - Stronger
L10
Ridiculous difference - Marcus Harness replaced by Jack Clarke and Sam Szmodics. Ludicrous
Verdict - Stronger
ST
A lot riding on Hirst currently, but he looks like a top quality striker now when 2 years ago he was seen as a flop in the CHampionship having had 2 failed loans there
Verdict - About the same
Bearing in mind we haven't signed anyone yet, and will likely bring in 8-10 new players, every single one of those positions will be far stronger than they were in at this stage in 23/24 |
Leif isn’t a better player, he still can’t do the basics of getting goal side.
Only now, rather than having a really high ceiling, and nobody knowing if he can step up, everyone can see that at the minute, hie’s miles away from the level.
In his own words, it’s massively affected his confidence.
He won’t be close to his 23/24 numbers, still a cracking attacking player in there and athlete, but imagine he’ll be working VERY hard of the defensive side because he’s SO far off the standard.
And GK Muric is ace worse than any of our League One group, and Palmer is a modest upgrade, golden gloves don’t really tell a picture and he has more mistakes in him than Vlad, but he’s more of a presence too, maybe a slight edge.
Some of the attacking threats you mention won’t be here in August…, we’ll sell Clarke if we can find a buyer and very sadly Hutchinson won’t be here - £35 million looks a bargain and only other clubs PSR could save us there.., probably Leeds or Brentford bound.
The biggest problem I don’t think is quality.
It’s that the legacy group sweated blood for their BIG chance.., now they know they won’t get another, they aren’t good enough, and they won’t be at those levels, that’s how motivation works.
A 1% drop in our 23/24 motivation and we wouldn’t have gone up, not even close, we were the fine margins on so many results it was a crazy ride.
McKenna has his work cut out…, which is why he’s currently trying to leverage a move to Brentford, which is really poor on his part. | | | |
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