Forum | And now, the glass half empty by itfc_bucks

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And now, the glass half empty 10:50 - Jun 19 with 2725 views

Realistically, I'm not convinced we're any stronger in the Championship than we were last time out and, frankly, we had a season build on tremendous team spirit and a boatload of luck (except for penalties, which we're apparently not allowed anymore).

Is Greaves an upgrade on Cam?

We're weaker in the middle of the park (as it stands) than last time out.

We have a plethora of lightweight wingers, who despite the hype, I'm far from convinced by.

Long term injuries to Burns and Ogbene, who might never get back to where they were.

Our forward line has more than a few concerns in terms of both talent and availability.

I'm sure we'll make signings, but let's really not get ahead of ourselves...

-14

And now, the glass half empty on 10:54 - Jun 19 with 2210 views

Wacko

Everyone praises Burgess despite his "difficult first season" in League One. Greaves had his first season for a brand new club in the hardest league in the world. And the year before that he was in the Championship Team of the Season. Greaves is miles better than Burgess, he's better now, and will be much better in the future.

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And now, the glass half empty on 10:55 - Jun 19 with 2188 views

Herbivore

I disagree with pretty much everything you've said here. And the first part of your last line kind of renders the rest of your post pointless. We will be making signings, the squad we have now isn't the one we'll be going into the season with.

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And now, the glass half empty on 10:58 - Jun 19 with 2152 views

tractorboy1978

Alternatively:

We have 3 players that made Championship team of the season in 23/24
We have the player who got the most assists in 23/24
We have the top scorer from 23/24
We have the keeper with the joint most clean sheets from 23/24
We have 6 players that scored 10+ goals in 23/24

And now, the glass half empty on 10:59 - Jun 19 with 2133 views

itfc_bucks

And now, the glass half empty on 10:55 - Jun 19 by Herbivore
I disagree with pretty much everything you've said here. And the first part of your last line kind of renders the rest of your post pointless. We will be making signings, the squad we have now isn't the one we'll be going into the season with.

I think my point is more about the rampant expectation that we'll walk off with the league.

I have genuine concerns we'll be ineffective in attack and we looked a real mess in our own third.

I also didn't mention that the goalkeeping department still has major questions. I'm far from convinced about any of our three senior keepers.

-2

And now, the glass half empty on 10:59 - Jun 19 with 2123 views

J2BLUE

Yea....no.

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:00 - Jun 19 with 2100 views

BseaBlue

Championship Season 23/24:

Szmodics: 27 goals
Jack Clarke: 15 goals
Conor Chaplin: 13 goals
Nathan Broadhead: 13 goals
Jaden Philogene: 12 goals
Omari Hutchinson: 10 goals

That's 90 goals between 6 players that are all still here, plus Greaves who was in the team of the year! When people talk about a Championship cheat code team, this is why so your argument doesn't add up at all.

The only area we are probably slightly weaker is centre mid but Morsy is still here at present and we will most certainly strengthen.

And now, the glass half empty on 11:05 - Jun 19 with 2046 views

LankHenners

And now, the glass half empty on 10:59 - Jun 19 by itfc_bucks
I think my point is more about the rampant expectation that we'll walk off with the league. I have genuine concerns we'll be ineffective in attack and we looked a real mess in our own third. I also didn't mention that the goalkeeping department still has major questions. I'm far from convinced about any of our three senior keepers.

"the rampant expectation that we'll walk off with the league"

There have been far more pearl clutching posts like this than there have been actual ones about walking the league.

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:09 - Jun 19 with 1996 views

Wacko

And now, the glass half empty on 10:58 - Jun 19 by tractorboy1978
Alternatively: We have 3 players that made Championship team of the season in 23/24 We have the player who got the most assists in 23/24 We have the top scorer from 23/24 We have the keeper with the joint most clean sheets from 23/24 We have 6 players that scored 10+ goals in 23/24

And Manager of the Year

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:12 - Jun 19 with 1972 views

_clive_baker_

Our 1st choice keeper at the start of that season (barring injury) is now our 2nd or arguably 3rd.

Clarke is probably surplus now, Woolf is likely on the bench, Davis unchanged but a couple of years older, stronger and more experienced. O'Shea was a premier league player that season and now he's ours. Greaves was in the Championship team of the season and now he's ours too.

The midfield options then were Morsy, Taylor, Ball, Luongo, we'll be significantly upgraded vs. that come kick off in August.

Burns, Chaplin, Broadhead, Omari, Hirst still here. Plus Philogene, J. Clarke and Szmodics who were some of the best players that season. Szmodics in the team of the year, Philogene and Clarke 2 of the best young players at that level.

Look who we've lost since this time 2 years ago when the squad was announced for the Championship season: Ball, Edmundson, Evans, Burgess, Ladapo, Harness, Jackson, Aluko, Leigh, Donacien, Ahadme. Where are any of them now? How many would you want back? Aside from Burgess there isn't a single regrettable one.

We're streets ahead of where we were then, and still have the summer to improve further.

And now, the glass half empty on 11:15 - Jun 19 with 1936 views

positivity

And now, the glass half empty on 10:59 - Jun 19 by itfc_bucks
I think my point is more about the rampant expectation that we'll walk off with the league. I have genuine concerns we'll be ineffective in attack and we looked a real mess in our own third. I also didn't mention that the goalkeeping department still has major questions. I'm far from convinced about any of our three senior keepers.

the three senior keepers?

muric, who was the best goalkeeper in the league 22-23
palmer, most clean sheets in 23-24
walton, excellent back-up

i doubt anyone's got a better 3

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:16 - Jun 19 with 1925 views

StokieBlue

And now, the glass half empty on 10:59 - Jun 19 by itfc_bucks
I think my point is more about the rampant expectation that we'll walk off with the league. I have genuine concerns we'll be ineffective in attack and we looked a real mess in our own third. I also didn't mention that the goalkeeping department still has major questions. I'm far from convinced about any of our three senior keepers.

"I have genuine concerns we'll be ineffective in attack and we looked a real mess in our own third."

What are you basing this on though? Our attack is the same as the one that got promoted but with a few extra and better players added.

We looked a mess because we were playing world class players and now have two of the best championship defenders from the last few years.

No logic or context in your post really.

SB

And now, the glass half empty on 11:17 - Jun 19 with 1905 views

Herbivore

And now, the glass half empty on 10:59 - Jun 19 by itfc_bucks
I think my point is more about the rampant expectation that we'll walk off with the league. I have genuine concerns we'll be ineffective in attack and we looked a real mess in our own third. I also didn't mention that the goalkeeping department still has major questions. I'm far from convinced about any of our three senior keepers.

The "rampant expectation that we'll walk the league" doesn't exist. The only time anyone mentions walking the league is when the likes of yourself decide to start threads telling us that everyone thinks we'll walk the league but we probably won't. Most fans think we should be amongst the favourites. The bookies also have us amongst the favourites.

There are reasons why, one being we have a very good squad for the level (our reserves battered an in form Coventry away in the cup, remember) and a very good manager. We also have parachute payments which give us a big financial advantage over others. Six of the eight sides finishing top 4 over the last two seasons have had parachute payments. It's increasingly common for relegated teams to bounce straight back. There's good grounds for why we're considered strong contenders, but that is not the same as saying we are going to walk the league.

Your concerns seem to be based on us struggling in the Prem, but all newly promoted sides struggle in the Prem these days. And in terms of being ineffective in attack, we scored in a lot of games last season, against Prem defences. We scored a bucketful last time at this level. Your concerns seem to be based on nothing concrete.

As for the keeper situation, Palmer and Muric were both amongst the top few keepers at this level when playing here. So while they may not be Prem standard, that's not a concern for this season. All three of our senior keepers are plenty good enough for the Championship.

[Post edited 19 Jun 11:28]

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:17 - Jun 19 with 1900 views

dirtyboy

As I see it.

Keep this squad and add one quality midfielder to replace Luongo (or Cajuste from season gone) and one quality striker to replace Kieffer Moore (or Delap from season gone) and we're doing pretty darn well IMO.

Obviously keeping who we have is key, losing Tuanzebe would be my biggest concern.

And now, the glass half empty on 11:17 - Jun 19 with 1901 views

Bellevue_Blue

It's amazing what a tough PL season can do ...

We've become accustomed to using this term 'lightweight wingers' for incredibly skilful players because they got pushed around a bit at the top level.

Can we all just remind ourselves how good this group are?

Broady - 17G/A goals in last Champ campaign
Clarke - 19 G/A in his last Champ season
Philogene - 18 G/A in one Champ season and regular England U21 international
Hutchinson - 5 G/A in the PL, 16 G/A in one Champ season and England U21 most influential player
Burns - 10 G/A in his last Champ season
Ogbene - 7 G/A in his last full season as a PL player

Just the 80 Goal contributions across our 'lightweight wingers' in their last Championship campaigns.

I know we have moved on a little bit but please take a moment to reflect on the best playing squad we have had in 20 odd years!

And now, the glass half empty on 11:18 - Jun 19 with 1901 views

Illinoisblue

I share your concerns over the midfield but “boatload of luck”??? Examples please of this luck. No team gets up via autos due to luck.

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:18 - Jun 19 with 1890 views

squiz

And now, the glass half empty on 11:09 - Jun 19 by Wacko
And Manager of the Year

Mckenna is now the 2nd longest serving manager in the division. Only behind Phil Parkinson at Wrexham.

KOA were talking about the number of new managers in the championship this year. Currently 8 teams will start with new managers in August (9 if Ruud goes at Leicester).

9 more teams have had their managers less than a year.

Stability is our superpower as Mark Ashton would say

And now, the glass half empty on 11:30 - Jun 19 with 1735 views

itfcjoe

Squad at end of summer window in 2023 compared to now

GK -Hladky, Walton, Slicker
RB - Clarke, Donacien, WIlliams
LB - Davis
RCB - Woolfenden
LCB - Burgess, Edmundson
RCM - Ball, Morsy
LCM - Evans, Luongo, Taylor
RW - Burns, Jackson
R10 - Aluko, Chaplin, Hutchinson
L10 - Broadhead, Harness
ST - Hirst, Ladapo, Scarlett

Squad now

GK - Muric, Palmer, Slicker, Walton
RB - Johnson, (Tuanzebe), Clarke
LB - Davis, Townsend
RCB - O'Shea, Woolfenden
LCB - Greaves
RCM - Morsy
LCM - Taylor
RW - Philogene, Ogbene, Burns
R10 - Chaplin, Hutchinson
L10 - Broadhead, J.Clarke, Szmodics
ST - Hirst, Al-Hamadi

GK
The situation is a bit of a muddle, but we started that season with people wanting to go to the loan market to sign a keeper when Walton got injured. Talent wise we have 3 guys easily capable of being a number 1 in the Championship. In Muric's last season there he was in the team of the season. In 23/34 Palmer jointly won the golden glove with 18 clean sheets.
Verdict - Stronger

RB
Much of a muchness, had Williams been able to be available all season then he looked like he could be better than Johnson, but he wasn't. Tuanzebe signed after window shut, and is still not signed for next season
Verdict - Roughly the same

LB
Leif Davis is better than he was, we now have an excellent back up
Verdict - Stronger

RCB
Woolfenden has improved, O'Shea is better than him
Verdict - Stronger

LCB
At the moment it probably looks a bit weaker as not much between Burgess and Greaves and Edmundson was a good back up
Verdict - Weaker

RCM
Much of a muchness, Morsy has improved but no back up
Verdict - The same

LCM
Weaker currently
Verdict - Weaker

RW
Burns was far and away key man here, Jackson not really up to much, now Burns is prob number 3 in the pecking order
Verdict - Stronger

R10
Omari has gone on to a different level and if he stays will be the best player in the league
Verdict - Stronger

L10
Ridiculous difference - Marcus Harness replaced by Jack Clarke and Sam Szmodics. Ludicrous
Verdict - Stronger

ST
A lot riding on Hirst currently, but he looks like a top quality striker now when 2 years ago he was seen as a flop in the CHampionship having had 2 failed loans there
Verdict - About the same

Bearing in mind we haven't signed anyone yet, and will likely bring in 8-10 new players, every single one of those positions will be far stronger than they were in at this stage in 23/24

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:31 - Jun 19 with 1728 views

Herbivore

And now, the glass half empty on 11:18 - Jun 19 by Illinoisblue
I share your concerns over the midfield but “boatload of luck”??? Examples please of this luck. No team gets up via autos due to luck.

There's a narrative developing among some fans that 2023/24 was some kind of massive one-off fluke. It's very odd. I was at every home game that season, and bar a handful of exceptions, we battered most sides. For every deflection in our favour you can point to one that went against us. And don't get me started on our lack of penalties.

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:35 - Jun 19 with 1684 views

TRUE_BLUE123

Might as well not bother then eh?

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:37 - Jun 19 with 1677 views

bsw72

It's June. Calm down. Most other teams are in the same situation, without the funding.

And now, the glass half empty on 11:37 - Jun 19 with 1672 views

BlueBadger

Are you worried we haven’t made a signing yet? by BlueBadger 18 Jun 18:17
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Invest NOW in shares in firms making incontinence products, because the amount of wet beds and soiled nappies this summer is already HUGE.

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And now, the glass half empty on 11:40 - Jun 19 with 1655 views

SuffolkPunchFC

Many independent people consider our squad for next season as being exceptionally strong, and I concur with this view. It's been described as the '23/24 all stars' team by some - and there is some justification in that.

It is certainly much stronger on paper than what we had coming into the Championship from L1. We don't know who else we will lose, or what new signings there will be, but if we keep most of those recruits from the Championship 23/24 teams, we will be way ahead of where we were the season before last.

It's true that the players didn't gel as well as was needed last season, but injuries prevented any consistence in the squad selection, and many key players were out for extended periods. If we get a good pre-season, and avoid key injuries, the potential for next season is high. And we'll be less impacted by many injuries in the Championship, as the quality in depth will be good at this level (and was not in the PL)

And now, the glass half empty on 12:02 - Jun 19 with 1455 views

ArnieM

And now, the glass half empty on 11:12 - Jun 19 by _clive_baker_

I agree with you on all that youve posted . My only major concern is our apparent lack of physicality in the squads. We often seem to struggle against the more physical sides. Next season will be tough I think .

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-1

And now, the glass half empty on 12:06 - Jun 19 with 1431 views

Herbivore

And now, the glass half empty on 12:02 - Jun 19 by ArnieM
I agree with you on all that youve posted . My only major concern is our apparent lack of physicality in the squads. We often seem to struggle against the more physical sides. Next season will be tough I think .

Why will we find it tough? If anything, we've added physicality to the squad since we last played at this level. We got bullied at times in the Prem but that's night and day compared to the Championship.

[Post edited 19 Jun 12:07]

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And now, the glass half empty on 12:10 - Jun 19 with 1371 views

cressi

The are a few concerns momentum is a big thing and the winning habit. It is ultra important we get the right players in, in the right areas big season and pre season ahead for Ashton, McKenna and whoever involved.

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