By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions. We in turn value your personal details in accordance with our Privacy Policy.
Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Protests in Norwich already on 21:56 - Aug 10 by Nthsuffolkblue
I think we need to close the legal loopholes that allow the super-rich to pay accountants to ensure they pay very little tax. There are plenty of schemes that are designed to allow this. This would provide a lot to fund public services without needing to raise taxation levels, increase Government borrowing or blame immigrants for all our economic woes.
Ensuring illegal tax evasion is recouped as well goes hand-in-hand with this.
Unfortunately the richest are very good at claiming this just isn't possible and it is fairer for the less well-off to pay the burden. Look at the scaremongering over inheritance tax changes that would only actually affect those who are worth well over £1M but people nowhere near that bracket fear it.
Totally agree on your last point, the media whips up fear around any tax changes which aren’t going to affect 99pc of people.
On tax avoidance though - there’s a lot of naivety round that, it’s not like the various governments we’ve had just ignore it. Look at this current administration they are desperate for funds. Tax avoidance by its nature is legal - even us paying into an ISA is avoiding tax. The government are constantly closing loopholes, but it’s very much a case of chasing their tale. New mechanisms are constantly devised to move capital offshore.
The underlying issue there is globalisation - as long as we have jurisdictions willing to drive a race to the bottom, we are going to lose tax take. We need much more international leadership on this point, which was happening under Biden with a Global Minimum Tax system, but it’s hard to see the current US administration continuing work on this.
0
Protests in Norwich already on 07:54 - Aug 11 with 854 views
Protests in Norwich already on 06:11 - Aug 11 by MJallday
I bet life in the 60329006 household is fun.
When you’re not on Twitter, someone’s feed shows up a seemingly random selection of mostly older tweets. A quick glance at her profile throws this up this beauty:
“I’m 50 this year and when I was at school my here was no stabbings , there was no trans kids, there was no autism, there was no food allergies.:. wtf has changed? How many vaccines to children have? How many non natives do we have ? So sad how once a Great Britain has fallen”
Her daughter appears equally angry and appears to be seeing a ‘journalist’ working for VoxPopuli Media (whoever they are). His feed is rammed full of attacks on migrants, often mischaracterising content (US accents and signs in supposed UK ‘incidents’.
I don’t know how you reach/save people like this. I want to feel sympathy for them (they have been radicalised after all), but they’re causing so much damage it’s hard not to just despise them.
Totally agree on your last point, the media whips up fear around any tax changes which aren’t going to affect 99pc of people.
On tax avoidance though - there’s a lot of naivety round that, it’s not like the various governments we’ve had just ignore it. Look at this current administration they are desperate for funds. Tax avoidance by its nature is legal - even us paying into an ISA is avoiding tax. The government are constantly closing loopholes, but it’s very much a case of chasing their tale. New mechanisms are constantly devised to move capital offshore.
The underlying issue there is globalisation - as long as we have jurisdictions willing to drive a race to the bottom, we are going to lose tax take. We need much more international leadership on this point, which was happening under Biden with a Global Minimum Tax system, but it’s hard to see the current US administration continuing work on this.
Broadly I think this is right but are you perhaps conflating personal and corporate taxation in your second paragraph? Very difficult with common reporting standards (CRS) now for individuals to just move money offshore and evade tax.
There was though a huge fiscal transfer in covid from the public to private sector.
So if people are asking "WHERE IS THE MONEY", perhaps looking at the health of private sector balance sheets pre and post covid might be a good place to start. And the increase in dividends and buy backs of certain large UK companies too...
The rest of government debt is either owned by the BoE or pension funds. Which most of us in this thread will profit from.
So, corporate taxation reform is probably the answer to the question in the short term, as you suggest in your last paragraph.
In the long term, they will desperately need to get growth going but these are huge structural issues that have persisted for the last two decades and I don't think can be solved by politicians who have to think in 5 year cycles.
[Post edited 11 Aug 8:54]
0
Protests in Norwich already on 08:48 - Aug 11 with 782 views
Protests in Norwich already on 07:54 - Aug 11 by Swansea_Blue
When you’re not on Twitter, someone’s feed shows up a seemingly random selection of mostly older tweets. A quick glance at her profile throws this up this beauty:
“I’m 50 this year and when I was at school my here was no stabbings , there was no trans kids, there was no autism, there was no food allergies.:. wtf has changed? How many vaccines to children have? How many non natives do we have ? So sad how once a Great Britain has fallen”
Her daughter appears equally angry and appears to be seeing a ‘journalist’ working for VoxPopuli Media (whoever they are). His feed is rammed full of attacks on migrants, often mischaracterising content (US accents and signs in supposed UK ‘incidents’.
I don’t know how you reach/save people like this. I want to feel sympathy for them (they have been radicalised after all), but they’re causing so much damage it’s hard not to just despise them.
Protests in Norwich already on 08:40 - Aug 11 by nrb1985
Broadly I think this is right but are you perhaps conflating personal and corporate taxation in your second paragraph? Very difficult with common reporting standards (CRS) now for individuals to just move money offshore and evade tax.
There was though a huge fiscal transfer in covid from the public to private sector.
So if people are asking "WHERE IS THE MONEY", perhaps looking at the health of private sector balance sheets pre and post covid might be a good place to start. And the increase in dividends and buy backs of certain large UK companies too...
The rest of government debt is either owned by the BoE or pension funds. Which most of us in this thread will profit from.
So, corporate taxation reform is probably the answer to the question in the short term, as you suggest in your last paragraph.
In the long term, they will desperately need to get growth going but these are huge structural issues that have persisted for the last two decades and I don't think can be solved by politicians who have to think in 5 year cycles.
[Post edited 11 Aug 8:54]
I was approaching it from a commercial point of view rather than individual (ISA was just an example). In the corporate world there are many mechanisms for shifting capital to other jurisdictions for ‘tax efficiency’. Back when we had mostly domestic firms that wasn’t so much an issue, but in a global age it’s relatively easy (and there are many legitimate reasons to do so). Unfortunately it very much is a race to the bottom - once a company gets an edge over their competitors, it’s inevitable they will follow.
Perhaps the most effective way to combat this is large scale boycott of the companies. How many people complain about offshoring profits, whilst continuing to fund firms like Amazon.
0
Protests in Norwich already on 09:21 - Aug 11 with 694 views
I was approaching it from a commercial point of view rather than individual (ISA was just an example). In the corporate world there are many mechanisms for shifting capital to other jurisdictions for ‘tax efficiency’. Back when we had mostly domestic firms that wasn’t so much an issue, but in a global age it’s relatively easy (and there are many legitimate reasons to do so). Unfortunately it very much is a race to the bottom - once a company gets an edge over their competitors, it’s inevitable they will follow.
Perhaps the most effective way to combat this is large scale boycott of the companies. How many people complain about offshoring profits, whilst continuing to fund firms like Amazon.
I think that's right at the end of your first paragraph - thus I do think their needs to be a bit more creative thinking, because just trying to tax the money back might not be simple as you say.
I would quite like to see partnerships whereby funding for certain public services is provided by private sector "sponsorship" rather than taxation.
An issue close to my heart for example, is the defunding of youth services. So why not have something like "After school clubs in association with Tesco/Ocado etc" for example.
These large listed companies all have ESG goals now they need to hit so it works for them and they can also build some brand loyalty with youngsters too.
[Post edited 11 Aug 9:22]
0
Protests in Norwich already on 09:34 - Aug 11 with 645 views
Protests in Norwich already on 09:21 - Aug 11 by nrb1985
I think that's right at the end of your first paragraph - thus I do think their needs to be a bit more creative thinking, because just trying to tax the money back might not be simple as you say.
I would quite like to see partnerships whereby funding for certain public services is provided by private sector "sponsorship" rather than taxation.
An issue close to my heart for example, is the defunding of youth services. So why not have something like "After school clubs in association with Tesco/Ocado etc" for example.
These large listed companies all have ESG goals now they need to hit so it works for them and they can also build some brand loyalty with youngsters too.
[Post edited 11 Aug 9:22]
Year of the Depend Adult Undergarment
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Protests in Norwich already on 09:21 - Aug 11 by nrb1985
I think that's right at the end of your first paragraph - thus I do think their needs to be a bit more creative thinking, because just trying to tax the money back might not be simple as you say.
I would quite like to see partnerships whereby funding for certain public services is provided by private sector "sponsorship" rather than taxation.
An issue close to my heart for example, is the defunding of youth services. So why not have something like "After school clubs in association with Tesco/Ocado etc" for example.
These large listed companies all have ESG goals now they need to hit so it works for them and they can also build some brand loyalty with youngsters too.
[Post edited 11 Aug 9:22]
What a bleak outlook. We should be trying to separate public and private entities, not further integrate them.
What happens as soon as ESG becomes unfashionable?
1
Protests in Norwich already on 11:27 - Aug 11 with 481 views
Protests in Norwich already on 11:27 - Aug 11 by bartyg
What a bleak outlook. We should be trying to separate public and private entities, not further integrate them.
What happens as soon as ESG becomes unfashionable?
Trusting private companies to act for the good of society rather than in the sole interest of profit for shareholders has worked tremendously well to date. We've managed to eliminate almost all social and environmental problems by putting our faith in the free market. Long live laissez faire capitalism, I say.
Protests in Norwich already on 11:27 - Aug 11 by bartyg
What a bleak outlook. We should be trying to separate public and private entities, not further integrate them.
What happens as soon as ESG becomes unfashionable?
Having lived in Switzerland for the last 8 years, I can tell you these things work just fine.
The Swiss manage to combine a pretty libertarian, free-market approach to much of the economy with a healthy dose of socialism where it makes sense — nationalised railways and utilities, rent controls, stronger tenant rights, etc. The result is a very enviable standard of living and high degrees of happiness for the general populus.
The answer is pragmatism: take what works from both ends of the spectrum, don’t swing the pendulum wildly the other way.
[Post edited 11 Aug 11:48]
1
Protests in Norwich already on 11:51 - Aug 11 with 394 views
Interestingly I was also going to include in my post the following quote from that article indicating further petrol on the fire from the Tories.
"The Mail on Sunday gave Jenrick – as ever, with the air of a callow opportunist flirting with mob politics – its front-page splash. “I certainly don’t want my children to share a neighbourhood with men from backward countries who broke into Britain illegally, and about whom we know next to nothing,” he said. The accompanying messaging was less than subtle: an inside spread put a picture of Jenrick and his three daughters at what looked like a middle-English fete, next to an image of smiling young men “aboard a boat in France yesterday”.
0
Protests in Norwich already on 11:59 - Aug 11 with 369 views
"At the end of July, the Institute for Public Policy Research published a report to mark the first anniversary of 2024’s riots, which claimed that the loss of communities’ shared spaces – pubs, youth clubs, community centres – can create “tinderbox conditions for violence”.
I can't comment on pubs but I think many of our perceived woes in Britain can be attributed to the closing of youth clubs and community centres. I've seen first hand the damage that has done in parts of London where my nephew is growing up.
Like I wrote in a post above, if govt or local govt can't fund this then I would like to see the private sector pony up the relative pittance it would take to fund this.
0
Protests in Norwich already on 13:35 - Aug 11 with 233 views
One striking point, 14 X posts from Keir Starmer last week and 10 of them about small boat crossings. The below quote is also instructive:
"A study by the University of Birmingham that surveyed thousands of media texts and political documents earlier this year found that that disproportionate focus on small boats shapes public attitudes towards migration, fuelling “a sense of crisis and emergency”"
There's at least one poster on here who could do with digesting that little snippet.
Protests in Norwich already on 11:45 - Aug 11 by nrb1985
Having lived in Switzerland for the last 8 years, I can tell you these things work just fine.
The Swiss manage to combine a pretty libertarian, free-market approach to much of the economy with a healthy dose of socialism where it makes sense — nationalised railways and utilities, rent controls, stronger tenant rights, etc. The result is a very enviable standard of living and high degrees of happiness for the general populus.
The answer is pragmatism: take what works from both ends of the spectrum, don’t swing the pendulum wildly the other way.
[Post edited 11 Aug 11:48]
A lot of European countries do. We just don’t seem capable in the UK. We’ve fully embraced privatisation and outsourcing models for anything that should be working for the betterment of the people, and successive governments seem highly susceptible to corporate lobbying in terms of future planning and spend. I don’t know why we can’t find that balance. If everyone is pissed off with the greed, failing services and growing inequality (possibly for different reasons for the lefties and the righties, but we’re all pissed off), you’d think it would be a vote winner to have policies that work for the people (i.e. that “healthy dose of socialism where it makes sense”). Unfortunately, anyone mentioning such a thing gets labelled as a Marxist (by the press, by the public on social media, etc.).
Protests in Norwich already on 14:27 - Aug 10 by The_Major
Coming up to the 30th anniversary of me living in Nodge, and I can say with a fair degree of certainty that the vast majority of the mouth breathers who will be protesting in Nodge won’t even be from here themselves.
It’s always seemed to me to be a pretty harmonious welcoming place (I mean, they’ve tolerated me all this time, football allegiances and all), and is a pretty progressive place overall – no Reform or even Tory city councillors, strong support for the arts, one of the biggest Pride Days outside of London – plus there are hundreds of youngsters from overseas who go to the UEA and the City College. You can walk down St Stephens Street and hear about 17 different languages sometimes, nobody bats an eyelid in general.
The very first night after the Brexit vote, some scrote went to a shop in Magdalen Street run by a Romanian family, and stuck a bunch of rags that they’d set alight through the letterbox – the family lived in the flat above the shop, and included small children. They escaped unhurt, but there was a lot of damage to their shop. Friends of the family set up a local appeal just to raise £500 to help them get by for a couple of weeks, and within twelve hours or so, it had raised about £30k. Hardly the actions of a community that is anti-immigrant.
I don’t deny that once you get outside the city, some places, particularly towards North Walsham are a mixture of Westeros and Hazzard County, but by and large it’s OK here.
But of course, it’s a question of people coming in to wind things up – these people, along with parts of the media are absolutely desperate to see things kick off like they did last year – you’ve only got to look at what that despicable individual Jenrick is saying on the front of the Daily Blackshirts this very morning to see that. And yet, you know that if, God forbid, something did happen, and one of these hotels were burnt to the ground with people inside, not one, not a single one of these inadequate, cowardly, pathetic creatures who are the ring leaders will take a shred of responsibility. They never do.
You have the case of Rupert Lowe getting worked up that a small boat was heading for the Great Yarmouth beach, but he either lacked the intelligence to think that given the treacherous conditions that an overloaded dinghy faces on just travelling 25 miles or so across the Strait of Dover, it would be unlikely that it went north from Calais to travel about 150 miles instead to head for the Britannia Pier, or he knew damned well that was the case, and raised the alarm to wind people up.
Lowe is nothing more than a treacherous little runt (and I’m sure if you had a chat with some Southampton fans next week, they’d be less then complimentary), but is indulged by the media, so the chances of him shutting the hell up is pretty remote.
Immigration needs to be controlled, I don’t deny that – but people need to wake up, and realise that the vast majority of problems in this country, not to mention the world are caused by billionaires wanting to become even richer, and not by some poor soul willing to risk life and limb on a sea journey – but obviously they’re here to take all the jobs AND all the benefits apparently.
Last thing, a shout out to the moron filmed at a protest yesterday, waving the flags, “concerned” about women and children, and saying that the only hope for the country was the US to take over and make us the 51st state.
So, let me get this straight, oh great patriot, you want us to be ruled by another state, currently led by someone who’s attitude to women isn’t exactly great, and is alleged to have been involved in, or at the very least was aware of, the trafficking of minors.
Righto.
On a slightly different but connected matter. I have always found that Norwich people and Norfolk people are entirely different politically. Norwich were solid remainers, Norfolk voted for leave. Norwich have Labour MPs, Norfolk is/was mostly Blue. My question is why ? I have had it suggested to me that it is because of the UEA brings in younger thinkers but I dont know. What do you think ?
0
Protests in Norwich already on 16:01 - Aug 11 with 146 views
Protests in Norwich already on 15:49 - Aug 11 by Swansea_Blue
A lot of European countries do. We just don’t seem capable in the UK. We’ve fully embraced privatisation and outsourcing models for anything that should be working for the betterment of the people, and successive governments seem highly susceptible to corporate lobbying in terms of future planning and spend. I don’t know why we can’t find that balance. If everyone is pissed off with the greed, failing services and growing inequality (possibly for different reasons for the lefties and the righties, but we’re all pissed off), you’d think it would be a vote winner to have policies that work for the people (i.e. that “healthy dose of socialism where it makes sense”). Unfortunately, anyone mentioning such a thing gets labelled as a Marxist (by the press, by the public on social media, etc.).
Agree and I forget which poster (maybe super Kieran McKenna?) but somebody has said a couple of times the quality of politician in our country and in my lifetime has often left a lot to be desired. I get the feeling the standard is generally better elsewhere. Which may account for some of the issues you outline. Nb I realise there are plenty of good MPs too.
Btw - re Marxist comments, it swings both ways. Look at the comments I’ve had directed at me in this thread for expressing some fairly benign centrist views. Or at least I think they’re centrist!
*oh I would also add that for most of my lifetime we’ve had a Tory government. So things like rental controls and tenants rights aren’t exactly in their wheel house are they! Given they and their chums are the landlords. I also don’t think it’s been helpful that most of the prime ministers they’ve given us have all gone to the same school…
[Post edited 11 Aug 16:45]
1
Protests in Norwich already on 16:05 - Aug 11 with 131 views
One striking point, 14 X posts from Keir Starmer last week and 10 of them about small boat crossings. The below quote is also instructive:
"A study by the University of Birmingham that surveyed thousands of media texts and political documents earlier this year found that that disproportionate focus on small boats shapes public attitudes towards migration, fuelling “a sense of crisis and emergency”"
There's at least one poster on here who could do with digesting that little snippet.
It’s as if the subject and consequences are utterly irrelevant. Some numpty after a focus group has told them that some potential voters hate immigrants and they’ve embraced the idea of pandering to that viewpoint. But the numpty doesn’t seem aware that they’re haemorrhaging support from their base at far greater rates than they’re turning Reform voters.
I can’t reconcile how they’re acting with a Labour government. If they’re not careful, they’ll end up as irrelevant and unelectable as the Tories. I don’t understand how they can’t see it.
They’ve lost me for what it’s worth. I only lent them my vote to make sure the Tories didn’t get in, but I won’t be doing that again unless they change radically and start showing they care about making our lives better.
On a slightly different but connected matter. I have always found that Norwich people and Norfolk people are entirely different politically. Norwich were solid remainers, Norfolk voted for leave. Norwich have Labour MPs, Norfolk is/was mostly Blue. My question is why ? I have had it suggested to me that it is because of the UEA brings in younger thinkers but I dont know. What do you think ?
Partly the university and the arts school, you've got over 20k students in Norwich and quite a lot of them stay on after they graduate. Cities generally have a younger demographic as well compared to more rural areas. Most of the people I know here didn't grow up in Norfolk so have experienced other parts of the country. It's just quite a liberal and welcoming place, but some of that goes back centuries, Norwich has a proud history of welcoming "strangers" and it's got quite a history of political radicalism. So I think it's a combination of factors, basically.
Protests in Norwich already on 16:05 - Aug 11 by Swansea_Blue
It’s as if the subject and consequences are utterly irrelevant. Some numpty after a focus group has told them that some potential voters hate immigrants and they’ve embraced the idea of pandering to that viewpoint. But the numpty doesn’t seem aware that they’re haemorrhaging support from their base at far greater rates than they’re turning Reform voters.
I can’t reconcile how they’re acting with a Labour government. If they’re not careful, they’ll end up as irrelevant and unelectable as the Tories. I don’t understand how they can’t see it.
They’ve lost me for what it’s worth. I only lent them my vote to make sure the Tories didn’t get in, but I won’t be doing that again unless they change radically and start showing they care about making our lives better.
[Post edited 11 Aug 16:07]
I couldn't bring myself to vote for them last year, but that decision was made easier by my constituency being a safe Labour seat anyway. If it had been a Tory/Labour marginal it would have been a much harder decision.
It's odd that they are trying to outdo the parties on the right of them when it comes to immigration. It won't work. Despite their rhetoric, which has also been backed up by more action than the Tories managed, you can see on here that dyed in the wool Tory/Reform voters cannot be won over by Labour. Reform will always have the advantage of not having to enact anything so can make the same moon on a stick promises that conned people into voting for a damaging Brexit. The Tories have no conscience, and also no power to do anything, so can also ramp up their rhetoric too. Labour actually making life harder for immigrants won't make a dent on those on the right, instead it just alienates their own base as you say.
Protests in Norwich already on 16:14 - Aug 11 by Herbivore
Partly the university and the arts school, you've got over 20k students in Norwich and quite a lot of them stay on after they graduate. Cities generally have a younger demographic as well compared to more rural areas. Most of the people I know here didn't grow up in Norfolk so have experienced other parts of the country. It's just quite a liberal and welcoming place, but some of that goes back centuries, Norwich has a proud history of welcoming "strangers" and it's got quite a history of political radicalism. So I think it's a combination of factors, basically.
Mmmm. And Strangers Hall of course.
Interesting, but on the other hand places like Yarmouth and now to a lesser extent Lynn are ports and there is nothing unusual about people from all over the globe wandering about. So what is the difference ? Other than perhaps those in Norwich are more likely to settle I suppose.
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
