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Had the 'pleasure' of listening to Zia Yussuf (remember him? He's the one who originally tried to resign from Reform because they were too racist, but was somehow convinced by Führage to stay...) trying to defend Reform's new immigration policy on R4 this morning.
It's scary how much of their rationale doesn't even stand up to the most basic of scrutiny, but will no doubt be lapped up by their target demographic.
For example, claiming that immediate deportation of illegal immigrants will reduce the burden on the NHS, pensions, and welfare system. My understanding was that, by virtue of their being illegal migrants, they wouldn't even be able to access pensions or the welfare system?
I would be incredibly interested, and perhaps there is some out there, in reading research that looks closely into the link between the effect that the pandemic (and it's effects on pushing people to be isolated and become overly reliant on social media) has had on the rapid increase of open facism and radicalisation in the UK and across the world.
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Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:31 - Aug 26 with 738 views
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:22 - Aug 26 by blueasfook
When did Farage implore people to set hotels on fire? I must have missed that.
Farage & Reform would be far less of a threat if the mainstream parties & their supporters had a really good think about why they have been getting so much traction, rather than simply badmouthing him as a Nazi.
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:31 - Aug 26 by Radlett_blue
Farage & Reform would be far less of a threat if the mainstream parties & their supporters had a really good think about why they have been getting so much traction, rather than simply badmouthing him as a Nazi.
Quite. But hey, he eats babies... or something.
"Blueas is a great guy, one of the best." - Donald Trump
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:19 - Aug 26 by glasso
No, just to set hotels full of people on fire and that sort of thing.
Much more pleasant.
We accept that Farage is a nasty little hate preacher but he didn't direct people to set fire to hotels where thankfully no one was killed. That can be laid at the door of Tommy Robinson.
I'd say there is a massive difference between Farage and Gerry Adams, who was an Officer Commanding in an organisation responsible for the murder of over 600 innocent civilians and nearly 1000 troops and police officers.
I think people are losing all sense of objectivity if they are comparing Farage to Gerry Adams. That of course is just my opinion.
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 12:23 - Aug 26 by Guthrum
I think there's less chance of that happening. It's a very big jump from getting five seats to the 300+ required to form anything like a stable government.
They're fighting against the electoral system, which rewards regional concentration over absolute voting numbers. Also habitual tribalism, which will still lead many on the milder right to vote Conservative.
On top of which, single-person movements have never done well in UK politics. So far, Farage's record on keeping his parliamentary group together has not been outstanding, losing two of the five-plus-a-byelection-winner (a third of his MPs) to fallings-out or scandal.
Sure, they are occasionally topping polls, but that means little this far out from a General Election. A lot can happen in three and a half years.
Agree with all that, but I said he'd be PM, not that Reform would win the election.
I think those two things might be different.
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Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:36 - Aug 26 with 693 views
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 12:48 - Aug 26 by noggin
Just been reading a social media rant by an old friend and his wife, who now live in Australia. The gist of it was that immigrants are committing all the crime in Australia and now 2 police officers have been shot dead (apparently these things never happened before all the immigrants arrived). He also stated that his post will likely be removed because "white people don't have freedom of speech." He provided zero evidence for his crime 'statistic' and it has now been confirmed that the suspect for the shooting, is a white Australian. Of course, he won't Revise his post or even admit that he was wrong.
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:34 - Aug 26 by GlasgowBlue
We accept that Farage is a nasty little hate preacher but he didn't direct people to set fire to hotels where thankfully no one was killed. That can be laid at the door of Tommy Robinson.
I'd say there is a massive difference between Farage and Gerry Adams, who was an Officer Commanding in an organisation responsible for the murder of over 600 innocent civilians and nearly 1000 troops and police officers.
I think people are losing all sense of objectivity if they are comparing Farage to Gerry Adams. That of course is just my opinion.
[Post edited 26 Aug 13:35]
I think you've misread that my tongue was firmly placed in my cheek there. Although the Farage riots is an interesting comparison given the times we live in.
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:35 - Aug 26 by Linners
Agree with all that, but I said he'd be PM, not that Reform would win the election.
I think those two things might be different.
That is the Conservative Party's one route to avoid obliteration - merge with Reform & make Farage leader. This would frighten off many moderate Conservatives, but it might seem better than obliteration.
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:31 - Aug 26 by Radlett_blue
Farage & Reform would be far less of a threat if the mainstream parties & their supporters had a really good think about why they have been getting so much traction, rather than simply badmouthing him as a Nazi.
True, he's more old money fascist exploiting the poor and desperate akin to Moseley and Powell. Although I think the fact he openly lies, berates and exploits people via the media is thinking about that isnt it?
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:35 - Aug 26 by Linners
Agree with all that, but I said he'd be PM, not that Reform would win the election.
I think those two things might be different.
I'm not at all convinced that Reform will even exist by the next election. Farage will make a deal with the Tories and disband Reform in exchange for becoming leader of the opposition. That's my guess anyway.
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Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:58 - Aug 26 with 572 views
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:31 - Aug 26 by Radlett_blue
Farage & Reform would be far less of a threat if the mainstream parties & their supporters had a really good think about why they have been getting so much traction, rather than simply badmouthing him as a Nazi.
It’s the economy.
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Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 14:06 - Aug 26 with 531 views
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:31 - Aug 26 by Radlett_blue
Farage & Reform would be far less of a threat if the mainstream parties & their supporters had a really good think about why they have been getting so much traction, rather than simply badmouthing him as a Nazi.
The right have done a brilliant job on identity politics (if that’s the right term). If the opposition or their supporters do point out the issues affecting the UK they get smeared and ridiculed as Marxists. Even someone relatively benign political views who would just like to see a slightly fairer world with more opportunities for future generations is considered to be on the far left.
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:58 - Aug 26 by eireblue
It’s the economy.
Support for right wing populists has been growing in most of the developed West. Yes, it's a function of low economic growth & increased inequality (especially USA & UK). In Europe, poor demographics, which are almost inescapable, mean that these conditions are likely to worsen, almost irrespective of who's in charge & what they do. Tax increases are unpopular, especially with those who have to pay them, but governments are also unwilling to scale back entitlements. The huge increase in immigration & the inability of European governments to deal with it has provided a convenient lightning rod.
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:22 - Aug 26 by blueasfook
When did Farage implore people to set hotels on fire? I must have missed that.
He’s too clever for that and has got a core support to say the racist bits out loud. Much like Trump didn’t personally storm the Capitol, Farage just fans the flames without crossing the line.
It doesn’t really matter what labels people attach to him. That’s all a distraction. The bottom line is he preaches from a place of intolerance and division. It’s a shame people don’t see through it or are so full of hatred themselves that they associate with it.
And that’s all before we get into the fact that he’s never worked for the people he’s supposed to represent. Rarely turned up as an MEP, didn’t do his committee work, now he barely mentions his constituency when he can be bothered to turn up the Parliament. His councillors are car crashes and have no idea what they’re doing.
He’s solely a grifter. If we elect in Reform, things will get worse for normal people (as they have after his last big grift of Brexit).
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 14:08 - Aug 26 by Radlett_blue
Support for right wing populists has been growing in most of the developed West. Yes, it's a function of low economic growth & increased inequality (especially USA & UK). In Europe, poor demographics, which are almost inescapable, mean that these conditions are likely to worsen, almost irrespective of who's in charge & what they do. Tax increases are unpopular, especially with those who have to pay them, but governments are also unwilling to scale back entitlements. The huge increase in immigration & the inability of European governments to deal with it has provided a convenient lightning rod.
Yep.
Poor demographics can be helped with things like free movement and joined up migration programs, whilst also assisting people in other countries.
It is the blame someone else strategy.
All the way back to Spinoza, to paraphrase, humans are more easily motivated by feels rather than reals, and that is being exploited.
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Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 14:26 - Aug 26 with 448 views
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:22 - Aug 26 by blueasfook
When did Farage implore people to set hotels on fire? I must have missed that.
He sails close to the wind, and in my view knows what he is doing.
This was his response before any rioting broke out.
Hitting out at Mr Farage’s response, Brendan Cox said: “Imagine your response to the death of three children being to peddle conspiracy theories that incite a riot.
“This is why Farage deserves the label far-right. Everyone who is associated with him, has normalised him or promoted him should be ashamed. This is vile.”
And here is evidence of Farage championing Lucy Connolly who tweeted.
"Mass deportation now, set fire to all the f****** hotels full of the bastards for all I care… if that makes me racist so be it.”
[Post edited 26 Aug 14:54]
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Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 15:02 - Aug 26 with 356 views
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 12:14 - Aug 26 by Dubtractor
The extent to which the BBC cover Farage, compared to any other leader, is mad. He gets way more coverage than Badenoch or Ed Davey for example.
This feels relevant.
Reform UK, which has a grand total of four MPs, was just given an uninterrupted platform for an hour and a half on the BBC and Sky News channels, in order to talk about its plans for mass deportations
When was the last time the Greens (with four MPs) or the Lib Dems (with 72) were given the same?
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 14:08 - Aug 26 by Radlett_blue
Support for right wing populists has been growing in most of the developed West. Yes, it's a function of low economic growth & increased inequality (especially USA & UK). In Europe, poor demographics, which are almost inescapable, mean that these conditions are likely to worsen, almost irrespective of who's in charge & what they do. Tax increases are unpopular, especially with those who have to pay them, but governments are also unwilling to scale back entitlements. The huge increase in immigration & the inability of European governments to deal with it has provided a convenient lightning rod.
If you cared about both income inequality and reducing immigration, who would you vote for? The party which promises to address one of those things or neither of them?
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Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 16:11 - Aug 26 with 193 views
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 15:16 - Aug 26 by chantryblueboy
If you cared about both income inequality and reducing immigration, who would you vote for? The party which promises to address one of those things or neither of them?
None of the ones in Parliament at the moment.
All parties, including Reform, are pro immigration to support the needs of the economy.
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Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 16:18 - Aug 26 with 169 views
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 15:16 - Aug 26 by chantryblueboy
If you cared about both income inequality and reducing immigration, who would you vote for? The party which promises to address one of those things or neither of them?
If you care about income inequality why would you want to curb immigration? Are the elderly native population going to plug the job market? Are the party who wants to privatise the NHS and skim off everything for their millionaire mates?
Especially when Reform is headed by men who have either emigrated for financial gain or in zias case is the descendant of immigrants?
Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 13:22 - Aug 26 by blueasfook
When did Farage implore people to set hotels on fire? I must have missed that.
You mean specifically saying 'go out and do it,' or spending years cultivating hatred among a certain section of dimwitted people that a little dog-whistle here and there is enough to set them off?
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Reform are dangerous - pt. 2,675,823 on 17:07 - Aug 26 with 15 views
I find it astonishing that a relatively small number of people trying to access this country gets far more political attention than the economy, nhs, social care, climate change etc. Similarly, we seem to spend huge amounts of time on identity politics. It’s almost as if the bigger issues are too difficult to solve so we’ll squabble about these instead.
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