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Have to say, I'm liking the noises coming out of the new Green Party leader. Seems to be a decent chap with his head screwed on (absolutely made mincemeat of Ed Balls the other day, although I appreciate that's not too difficult).
Whilst green issues are obviously huge, I tended to think that's all they stood for, but I'm now (from hearing a few bits from Polanski) realising there's much more to them (that I like). Particularly over taxing the rich. Could they be the alternative that Corbyn's party wants to be? And could they, under this new charasmatic and intelligent leader, be a challenge to Reform in terms of seats, given they're only one behind them currently?
I don't know why the Beeb (and others, but you expect better from the Beeb) give so much airtime to Farage. It's certainly not proportional to the amount of seats they have - they get way more coverage than the Greens, for example, who are only getting more now due to appointing a new leader.
Unfortunately not enough people care about green issues in this country (not enough to vote for them at least) so if their scope is seen to be wider, could they be the 'surprise package' at the next election? This country is crying out for a decent alternative but I have to say I didn't expect it to come from The Greens.
That’s the biggest issue. It doesn’t matter how good Green and LibDem politicians and policies are, they will only get a tiny fraction of the coverage that Reform and Farage always have had and will continue to get.
That’s the biggest issue. It doesn’t matter how good Green and LibDem politicians and policies are, they will only get a tiny fraction of the coverage that Reform and Farage always have had and will continue to get.
It could be that the political landscape has changed way more radically than we realise as yet.
I certainly think that young uns are less wedded to their family / local traditional political orientation (in a very big way) and respond to soundbites and personalities more. Obviously that's not a good thing, particularly when the party that's best at soundbites and personalities lacks responsibility or a moral compass, but there's no escaping the reality that ALL parties who want to compete have to do soundbites and personalities now - which rules out a Starmer-led Labour, in my opinion.
The T*ries are already dead probably, and Labour must either reconfigure or split or go the same way. A good proportion of those young uns are well aware of the immense difficulties they face in their near futures from environmental and social/economic collapses - if Polanski (or even a similar 'Labour' leader) can connect with them (as well as with older, open-minded voters) and get out in the open a brave and honest dialogue about the big changes to our way of life which we absolutely need to embrace, then there's still some hope.
People of all ages (but particularly the young) feel hopeless at the moment, knowing or half-knowing what the future holds, but if we're brave enough to have a go at rebooting our economic system we can give our kids a little hope, or at least go down knowing that we tried.
Reform v The Greens on 08:53 - Sep 7 by NthQldITFC
It could be that the political landscape has changed way more radically than we realise as yet.
I certainly think that young uns are less wedded to their family / local traditional political orientation (in a very big way) and respond to soundbites and personalities more. Obviously that's not a good thing, particularly when the party that's best at soundbites and personalities lacks responsibility or a moral compass, but there's no escaping the reality that ALL parties who want to compete have to do soundbites and personalities now - which rules out a Starmer-led Labour, in my opinion.
The T*ries are already dead probably, and Labour must either reconfigure or split or go the same way. A good proportion of those young uns are well aware of the immense difficulties they face in their near futures from environmental and social/economic collapses - if Polanski (or even a similar 'Labour' leader) can connect with them (as well as with older, open-minded voters) and get out in the open a brave and honest dialogue about the big changes to our way of life which we absolutely need to embrace, then there's still some hope.
People of all ages (but particularly the young) feel hopeless at the moment, knowing or half-knowing what the future holds, but if we're brave enough to have a go at rebooting our economic system we can give our kids a little hope, or at least go down knowing that we tried.
I've really noticed the noise (in a good way) that Polanski has been making.
I wonder if that's what's needed to tackle the likes of Farage. He lies and cheats, in terms of playing the political game fairly, so trying to take him on by playing by the normal rules is doomed to failure. So having an active agitator/campaigner taking him on seems worth a try!
[Post edited 7 Sep 9:14]
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
Reform v The Greens on 08:53 - Sep 7 by NthQldITFC
It could be that the political landscape has changed way more radically than we realise as yet.
I certainly think that young uns are less wedded to their family / local traditional political orientation (in a very big way) and respond to soundbites and personalities more. Obviously that's not a good thing, particularly when the party that's best at soundbites and personalities lacks responsibility or a moral compass, but there's no escaping the reality that ALL parties who want to compete have to do soundbites and personalities now - which rules out a Starmer-led Labour, in my opinion.
The T*ries are already dead probably, and Labour must either reconfigure or split or go the same way. A good proportion of those young uns are well aware of the immense difficulties they face in their near futures from environmental and social/economic collapses - if Polanski (or even a similar 'Labour' leader) can connect with them (as well as with older, open-minded voters) and get out in the open a brave and honest dialogue about the big changes to our way of life which we absolutely need to embrace, then there's still some hope.
People of all ages (but particularly the young) feel hopeless at the moment, knowing or half-knowing what the future holds, but if we're brave enough to have a go at rebooting our economic system we can give our kids a little hope, or at least go down knowing that we tried.
Reform v The Greens on 08:53 - Sep 7 by NthQldITFC
It could be that the political landscape has changed way more radically than we realise as yet.
I certainly think that young uns are less wedded to their family / local traditional political orientation (in a very big way) and respond to soundbites and personalities more. Obviously that's not a good thing, particularly when the party that's best at soundbites and personalities lacks responsibility or a moral compass, but there's no escaping the reality that ALL parties who want to compete have to do soundbites and personalities now - which rules out a Starmer-led Labour, in my opinion.
The T*ries are already dead probably, and Labour must either reconfigure or split or go the same way. A good proportion of those young uns are well aware of the immense difficulties they face in their near futures from environmental and social/economic collapses - if Polanski (or even a similar 'Labour' leader) can connect with them (as well as with older, open-minded voters) and get out in the open a brave and honest dialogue about the big changes to our way of life which we absolutely need to embrace, then there's still some hope.
People of all ages (but particularly the young) feel hopeless at the moment, knowing or half-knowing what the future holds, but if we're brave enough to have a go at rebooting our economic system we can give our kids a little hope, or at least go down knowing that we tried.
I think the worst thing that the Labour Party could do is split, a broad church approach is the best approach for socialism (like democracy and marriage, a terrible idea but better than all the alternatives.) Starmer is far too centralising in his manner of managing the party though (probably as a result of the phoney claims of antisemitism as all pervasive in the party when in fact it was isolated pockets and the correction was too slow) and a leader with broader appeal to both left and right is needed (not just for the party but for the State and that type of leader is only likely to be found in the Labour Party.)
On the subject of airtime for The Green Party I think the BBC need to be reminded that they gave Jimmy Saville a lot of airtime and look what came out there, they were unbalanced in their prime time entertainment moral sensibilities and they have become unbalanced by Farage in their political sensibilities.
That’s the biggest issue. It doesn’t matter how good Green and LibDem politicians and policies are, they will only get a tiny fraction of the coverage that Reform and Farage always have had and will continue to get.
In that respect, having a media-savvy leader could be a major advantage for the Greens. Pro-actively grabbing the headlines, rather then being too carefully bland (Labour), too stridently imitative (Conservatives), or just gently jocular (LibDems).
There is also the necessity to paint themselves as the solution to people's individual/household/financial problems, not just abstractly "saving the planet". The skill of Farage's UKIP/Reform has been disguising themselves to appeal to the dissatisfied and dienfranchised. The Greens need to do similarly, not concentrate on the unappealing message of depriving ourselves to halt Climate Change*.
* Edit: Something like "Green industry for economic growth" might be a good start, being careful to base this in economically deprived areas.
That looks excellent Rob. I'll sit down for a proper look through with my 'layman's' eyes later, to do it justice. First question: What / how broad is your target audience?
I also liked the sounds coming from the new Greens leader. My one concern is that I understand he has some historical baggage that when appropriate will be used against him and will shout over anything good he has to say. I think the Greens often get a hard time on QT. At least I seem to recall their last leader did. I don't see that changing, whereas Reform guests seem to be able to ramble on their sh1te until they run out of things to say. The new season of QT will be equal parts interesting and infuriating if the beebs current Reform love in continues.
Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.
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Reform v The Greens on 10:57 - Sep 7 with 1313 views
I also liked the sounds coming from the new Greens leader. My one concern is that I understand he has some historical baggage that when appropriate will be used against him and will shout over anything good he has to say. I think the Greens often get a hard time on QT. At least I seem to recall their last leader did. I don't see that changing, whereas Reform guests seem to be able to ramble on their sh1te until they run out of things to say. The new season of QT will be equal parts interesting and infuriating if the beebs current Reform love in continues.
His baggage is the reason I have nagging concerns about his impact and long term chances. Politicians on the left have to be squeaky clean in a way those on the right do not. I am concerned there is a lack of rationality in his political belief of leaving NATO, though I appreciate he has struck a different tone since, citing Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It does concern me about his wider approach, and whether he'll reach for Utopia before achieving manageable gains. If there was an election tomorrow I would probably still vote for the Greens but, for the moment, I had more enthusiasm in doing so at the last election. Hopefully this will change.
Going to be interesting if a by election comes up in a Labour held constituency, especially if Corbyn’s new party makes up ground giving a three way split.
Will give an idea of how splitting the socialist minded vote is likely to impact going forward. Have a feeling it isn’t going to be good and Reform will benefit. Not by the left switching to Reform but simply splitting the left and letting someone else in.
It was the split on the right that lead to Starmer getting such a big majority.
Reform v The Greens on 10:36 - Sep 7 by NthQldITFC
That looks excellent Rob. I'll sit down for a proper look through with my 'layman's' eyes later, to do it justice. First question: What / how broad is your target audience?
People like you who take a systems approach to these problems and are prepared to conscientiously do the sci-comms work. Michael Mann gave a talk to the Global Systems Institute back in June. He basically said the gloves have to come off and we need to start debunking much of the nonsense put out there in the MSM. I have a tiny minority on here who post the most egregious nonsense when it comes to emissions data, climate impacts and economic modelling.
The collaboration with the Institute and Faculty of Actuaries will hopefully bring onboard professionals from business and finance. The insurance sector is currently miles ahead of the rest.
I have to admit it looks bloomin' scary when you have the middle ground people still banging on about net-zero 2050 and you compare it to this analysis. It would be interesting to know how this analysis makes you feel. I been involved in transdisciplinary work for a while now and that can include people with little formal education, right up to full professors. I guess we need to get engagement about the genuine urgency of the situation without people losing all hope.
Thanks for taking the time to have a look at the dashboard.
[Post edited 7 Sep 11:30]
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Reform v The Greens on 11:37 - Sep 7 with 1162 views
Reform v The Greens on 11:15 - Sep 7 by pointofblue
His baggage is the reason I have nagging concerns about his impact and long term chances. Politicians on the left have to be squeaky clean in a way those on the right do not. I am concerned there is a lack of rationality in his political belief of leaving NATO, though I appreciate he has struck a different tone since, citing Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It does concern me about his wider approach, and whether he'll reach for Utopia before achieving manageable gains. If there was an election tomorrow I would probably still vote for the Greens but, for the moment, I had more enthusiasm in doing so at the last election. Hopefully this will change.
What baggage? I've heard his backstory and nothing sounds too dodgy to me, but I haven't delved deeper.
Reform v The Greens on 11:15 - Sep 7 by pointofblue
His baggage is the reason I have nagging concerns about his impact and long term chances. Politicians on the left have to be squeaky clean in a way those on the right do not. I am concerned there is a lack of rationality in his political belief of leaving NATO, though I appreciate he has struck a different tone since, citing Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It does concern me about his wider approach, and whether he'll reach for Utopia before achieving manageable gains. If there was an election tomorrow I would probably still vote for the Greens but, for the moment, I had more enthusiasm in doing so at the last election. Hopefully this will change.
Agree.
He has to appeal to the mainstream as well as the people who want the left wing utopia and those people generally seem to want 100% purity. The second he waters it down a bit to appeal more broadly he will be a pathetic flag shagging fraud.
His comments on NATO are incredibly naïve. On paper, you wouldn't argue but in the real world it comes across as very naïve.
I predict the Greens and Corbyn's party will have about 10 MPs between them and be largely irrelevant.
The only thing that will change that (IMO) is if this starts (or ends) as a battle of coalitions with Reform and Tories versus everyone else. The sad thing about that is it wouldn't take much for the Tories to take another step or two to align with Reform where as the other parties would take an eternity to reach a deal
Tax tax tax. More tax, ever more tax. This is the only solution politicians ever offer. I thought income tax was temporary and would finish after the Napoleonic wars. That’s what they said after all.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
He has to appeal to the mainstream as well as the people who want the left wing utopia and those people generally seem to want 100% purity. The second he waters it down a bit to appeal more broadly he will be a pathetic flag shagging fraud.
His comments on NATO are incredibly naïve. On paper, you wouldn't argue but in the real world it comes across as very naïve.
I predict the Greens and Corbyn's party will have about 10 MPs between them and be largely irrelevant.
The only thing that will change that (IMO) is if this starts (or ends) as a battle of coalitions with Reform and Tories versus everyone else. The sad thing about that is it wouldn't take much for the Tories to take another step or two to align with Reform where as the other parties would take an eternity to reach a deal
Have you considered that maybe he doesn't have to shift to the right? Left wing economics continue to be broadly popular.
I'd typed more but your sneering post has really wound me up. God forbid people consider that better may be possible
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Reform v The Greens on 12:00 - Sep 7 with 1024 views
Tax tax tax. More tax, ever more tax. This is the only solution politicians ever offer. I thought income tax was temporary and would finish after the Napoleonic wars. That’s what they said after all.
Rachel Reeves will probably take your breaths after the next budget.
I KNEW that would be the thing you were thinking of. And he completely debunked it (as I alluded to in the OP, destroying Ed Balls in the process);
Anything else?
And will people hear? I apologise as I probably didn't phrase it properly but his "baggage" is why I'm concerned he won't breakthrough - as said, left wing politicians have to be so squeaky clean compared to those on the right not to be dismissed.
I hate Balls' "Oh you might take votes away from Labour and let the Conservatives/Reform in" though. Maybe Labour should be busier fighting for votes themselves rather than expecting the rest of the left to bow down because the alternative is worse. Especially as Labour is little different now to the centralist Tories anyway.
He has to appeal to the mainstream as well as the people who want the left wing utopia and those people generally seem to want 100% purity. The second he waters it down a bit to appeal more broadly he will be a pathetic flag shagging fraud.
His comments on NATO are incredibly naïve. On paper, you wouldn't argue but in the real world it comes across as very naïve.
I predict the Greens and Corbyn's party will have about 10 MPs between them and be largely irrelevant.
The only thing that will change that (IMO) is if this starts (or ends) as a battle of coalitions with Reform and Tories versus everyone else. The sad thing about that is it wouldn't take much for the Tories to take another step or two to align with Reform where as the other parties would take an eternity to reach a deal
"...people who want the left wing utopia and those people generally seem to want 100% purity."
You have a chap up the thread talking about doughnut economics which would require the economy reducing to fit inside scientifically determined planetary boundaries. This pejorative labelling is just plain false. It won't be utopia, far from it.
You also assume a fixed system. There aren't going to be any climate impacts between now and 2029? The economic policies of the Labour Party aren't going to drive people further into debt and poverty?
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Reform v The Greens on 12:44 - Sep 7 with 784 views
we're going to have your party and the greens competing over the same 10% of votes. plus you can throw the muslim vote people into the mix. there will doubtless be some constituencies where that 10% (if they actually bother to vote) may swing the result away from labour, but the idea that it will draw voters who are choosing between the main parties and reform is nonsense. but in terms of corbyn or polanski we'll have to wait and see which own jones and russell brand are going to endorse.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Reform v The Greens on 12:46 - Sep 7 with 757 views
"...people who want the left wing utopia and those people generally seem to want 100% purity."
You have a chap up the thread talking about doughnut economics which would require the economy reducing to fit inside scientifically determined planetary boundaries. This pejorative labelling is just plain false. It won't be utopia, far from it.
You also assume a fixed system. There aren't going to be any climate impacts between now and 2029? The economic policies of the Labour Party aren't going to drive people further into debt and poverty?
I was talking about other people and their idea of a left wing utopia.
I am not sure what your second paragraph is about? Perhaps you could expand.
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