| Why we didn't 22:08 - Sep 17 with 5174 views | Ipswich24 |
Offer Burgess a 3 year deal is beyond me. The guy is immense. |  |
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| Why we didn't on 08:41 - Sep 18 with 1104 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Why we didn't on 00:44 - Sep 18 by bournemouthblue |
Cam reads the game better, has a very underated left foot and a good football brain
The shelf is higher for Greaves certainly, let's hope this season really brings him on and the relationship with O'Shea flourishes |
What he's brought to Swansea on top of much needed height in both boxes is his leadership, organisation and communication. He's the de facto captain on the pitch every time he plays, even though their actual captain is next to him. He never stops organising and talking. They love him down here already. I'm pleased for him. He needs to play in the WC year and as much as it weakens our squad he would have been wasted sitting on the bench every week.
Losing his and Morsy's leadership qualities was certainly a blow for us, but we'll get there. I'm certainly feeling a lot more positive after a 5-0! |  |
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| Why we didn't on 09:07 - Sep 18 with 1028 views | bournemouthblue |
| Why we didn't on 00:45 - Sep 18 by Swailsey |
I keep hearing that for Greaves (I said it a few times myself at the start) but I’m really yet to see it.
Let’s hope it happens soon! |
He's a bit faster and better on the deck but his all round game isn't quite as good currently, hopefully he can develop
Aerially both Greaves and O'Shea are very strong for Championship level and should really be chipping in with some goals |  |
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| Why we didn't on 09:18 - Sep 18 with 1003 views | SheffordBlue |
| Why we didn't on 09:07 - Sep 18 by bournemouthblue |
He's a bit faster and better on the deck but his all round game isn't quite as good currently, hopefully he can develop
Aerially both Greaves and O'Shea are very strong for Championship level and should really be chipping in with some goals |
I think the area where Greaves is already showing he is quite a way ahead is his ability to break forward confidently with the ball at his feet. Many have concerns about us playing with a 2 man midfield but he is now regularly becoming the third man in certain phases of play - he currently has more touches per 90 in the middle third of the pitch than anyone other than Ali, Young, Nunez and Humpreys, with all of those having limited minutes so far.
He's also 'broken the lines' a few times already this season by taking on a man or just running into the space the opposition aren't expecting a CB to be. With us being likely to face a number of low blocks this season this sort of contribution is going to be important I think. |  |
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| Why we didn't on 09:20 - Sep 18 with 997 views | Steve_M |
| Why we didn't on 08:29 - Sep 18 by Churchman |
Agree with that. I can fully understand why he wanted regular first team football, especially with his international career. He is in his late 20s now. He knows his career is finite and shining his @rse on the car seats clearly isn’t for him. Same for Chaplin, who is a terrific player. I wanted both to stay.
However, players come and go. All part of the cycle of life and very few players hold the same attachment to a football club as supporters, however many times they kiss the badge.
I was simply pleased to see him score those goals last night. A game for him to remember. As it goes, whilst he was great in the air I didn’t think his general defending was at its best. He was lucky with the offside - he’d have been sent off otherwise. Lucky Forest were wasteful too. They could have easily won that at a canter.
Had they done so the opportunity to rubbish Greaves (is he being promoted up the hate target list order after Philogene’s performance last week?) wouldn’t have happened.
Is Greaves a better player? In my view, and clearly McKenna’s, yes. McKenna’s playing him over Burgess has nothing to do with his fee (a reported £15m + add ons). To imply that, as one or two have, is to suggest McKenna is weak or that somebody else is picking the team. Neither is correct. Let’s face it, McKenna didn’t hang around binning Muric once his confidence collapsed.
Is he £18m better than Burgess is an interesting question. Going on the reported initial figure of £15m it makes him 20 times better than Burgess whose fee was £750k in 2021 (bargain!). Of course he isn’t so that makes Greaves a waste of money. Or does it?
Times have changed in four years and so has this club and the pond it’s fishing in. Buying from Accrington Stanley as a L1 club is not the same as where we were a year ago and neither is the market. For example, look at what Birmingham lobbed out last season and many a non-Premier League club this.
My view - forget what players used to cost. It’s irrelevant. I do think we paid top dollar for him for the reason you give. However, that’s not his fault and I believe he will prove worthy of that in a settled side that wins games (god willing) and grows. [Post edited 18 Sep 8:30]
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To add to which, I think it's also worth remembering that Burgess's first season here wasn't great and even as recently as January 2023 he was blundering around in the fog at Oxford. The improvement in his form from that point onwards was epic and I'm pleased he's started well at Swansea.
Having seen that career arc with Burgess, and differently with Kayden Jackson and Janoi Donacien, then the rush to criticise Philogene and Greaves seems short-sighted to me as well. |  |
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| Why we didn't on 09:39 - Sep 18 with 963 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Why we didn't on 09:07 - Sep 18 by bournemouthblue |
He's a bit faster and better on the deck but his all round game isn't quite as good currently, hopefully he can develop
Aerially both Greaves and O'Shea are very strong for Championship level and should really be chipping in with some goals |
I think many forget how much development Burgess has had under KM, when he first came he was imo at least, this typical tall lumpy CB who struggled with anyone who unbalanced him onto his right foot and his passing was suspect. He flourished over the seasons under KM and became more solid balancing wise, and his passing was much improved.
We are starting to see the signs with Greaves, it's been a slow burner and we must not forget he's had to develop under KM in the prem last season, that's vastly different to developing in league 1 and the championship with KM.
When you think back to whittaker v burgess for example when we played plymouth a while ago, he tore Burgess a new one, but I know he wouldn't face the same issues now.
Greaves has 4 years on Burgess, so if km can develop Greaves as much as he developed Burgess, we have one hell of a player on our books. |  |
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| Why we didn't on 13:16 - Sep 18 with 810 views | braveblue |
| Why we didn't on 22:25 - Sep 17 by Nutkins_Return |
Agreed. He wanted and needed to play. As simple as that. |
Graves has the potential to improve and be a premier league player. Sadly, Burgess probably does not. We bought potential. That’s why he was playing for Hull. Burgess is still a very good Championship player. But we need to have better next time to stay up. | | | |
| Why we didn't on 13:35 - Sep 18 with 787 views | stonojnr |
| Why we didn't on 08:00 - Sep 18 by bsw72 |
Because the club committing to a 3 year deal with a solid championship defender coming up to his 30th birthday makes absolutely no sense from a football or business aspect, especially a club with clear PL ambitions.
This is just supporter bias in practice, and we have seen it with a lot of the group who achieved double promotions, and even those loanees in cameo roles.
It is not unusal that when a popular player is absent (injured/dropped/rested/left the club) fans often remember their best moments and fill the gap with idealised expectations, making them seem better than they usually were.
This is driven by common cognitive biases: the halo effect where one or two key positive impressions colour overall judgmen, the fact that these standout highlights are easier to recall and are remembered more positively, confirmation and ingroup bias where fans favour evidence that supports their belief and scarcity principle, again where absence increases perceived value. Ingroup bias has been a huge thing with the Ipswich 22-24 squad and fan perception, and I think has hindered acceptance to a number of new players into the squad.
The simple truth is that Burgess was a good player for us, but is not the future to build on and was not good enough to earn that 3 year deal. |
It's like that game Greaves got subbed for Burgess ive cited before they both were as bad as each other, both made mistakes that conceded goals. One player was people's motm the other was given pelters for it.
I bet you can't guess which was which ;)
I get it he was instrumental to the promotion team experience we all had, he became a fan favourite just like Wolfie and Chappers and Broadhead but to claim burgess is like some footballing god of a defender is taking even TWTD blue tinted specs to the limits. | | | |
| Why we didn't on 13:48 - Sep 18 with 756 views | bartyg |
| Why we didn't on 00:13 - Sep 18 by Swailsey |
I’d argue there’s some truth in it though.
There’s no way Greaves has looked worth around 18x the amount Cam was.
He had a good season for Hull, but was pretty poor for us last year and cost us directly lots of goals. This year he’s had one good day so far; but I’d swap for Cam in a heartbeat. |
Diminishing returns |  | | |
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| Why we didn't on 13:57 - Sep 18 with 719 views | Everydayblue |
| Why we didn't on 23:28 - Sep 17 by MVBlue |
Had a habit of scoring important goals didn't he? |
Never felt so relieved , as to when he powered in that header to make it 2-0, Bolton away, I think. During that L1 run in.. I was a nervous wreck at 1-0.
I really started to believe after that game. And the rest is history.
Burgess and Morsy were my favourite players in that double promotion group.
Two players you could really count on in a dog fight. And we had plenty of dog fights in L1.
Burgess, so committed to the cause. With X-RAYS to prove it. | | | |
| Why we didn't on 19:59 - Sep 18 with 433 views | chicoazul |
| Why we didn't on 09:20 - Sep 18 by Steve_M |
To add to which, I think it's also worth remembering that Burgess's first season here wasn't great and even as recently as January 2023 he was blundering around in the fog at Oxford. The improvement in his form from that point onwards was epic and I'm pleased he's started well at Swansea.
Having seen that career arc with Burgess, and differently with Kayden Jackson and Janoi Donacien, then the rush to criticise Philogene and Greaves seems short-sighted to me as well. |
It’s almost as if those loud voices on here are the stupidest and learn nothing whatsoever from our recent history. |  |
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| Why we didn't on 20:47 - Sep 18 with 368 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Why we didn't on 00:45 - Sep 18 by Swailsey |
I keep hearing that for Greaves (I said it a few times myself at the start) but I’m really yet to see it.
Let’s hope it happens soon! |
Greaves is already having a good season. I think he's playing well and his relationship with O'Shea gets better by the game. | |
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| Why we didn't on 20:55 - Sep 18 with 349 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Why we didn't on 00:13 - Sep 18 by Swailsey |
I’d argue there’s some truth in it though.
There’s no way Greaves has looked worth around 18x the amount Cam was.
He had a good season for Hull, but was pretty poor for us last year and cost us directly lots of goals. This year he’s had one good day so far; but I’d swap for Cam in a heartbeat. |
So good he joined Swansea. |  |
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| Why we didn't on 20:58 - Sep 18 with 341 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Why we didn't on 09:39 - Sep 18 by FrimleyBlue |
I think many forget how much development Burgess has had under KM, when he first came he was imo at least, this typical tall lumpy CB who struggled with anyone who unbalanced him onto his right foot and his passing was suspect. He flourished over the seasons under KM and became more solid balancing wise, and his passing was much improved.
We are starting to see the signs with Greaves, it's been a slow burner and we must not forget he's had to develop under KM in the prem last season, that's vastly different to developing in league 1 and the championship with KM.
When you think back to whittaker v burgess for example when we played plymouth a while ago, he tore Burgess a new one, but I know he wouldn't face the same issues now.
Greaves has 4 years on Burgess, so if km can develop Greaves as much as he developed Burgess, we have one hell of a player on our books. |
Spot on. And FWIW, he still struggles with anyone who unbalances him onto his right foot. That was obvious last night, but he reads the game so well he hasn’t been exposed in the Championship this season. We’re lucky we can have a conversation about whether Greaves or Cam is best without there being a clear winner (Greaves for me on age and potential). We’re well placed with what we have.
Notwithstanding that, Cam has been immense for Swansea so far. I’ve seen most of their home games and he’s stood out a mile as a defender and a leader. It’s added a bit of extra interest for me surrounded by my weird Swansea supporting family if nothing else! We’re lucky with O’Shea and Greaves and we’re moving on. As an ex-player he’s in a good place that should help him with the WC finals coming in the summer, and I’m sure we all wish him well. Everyone wins. | |
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| Why we didn't on 21:13 - Sep 18 with 314 views | olimar |
| Why we didn't on 23:28 - Sep 17 by MVBlue |
Had a habit of scoring important goals didn't he? |
Struggling to remember any goals he scored for us other than the admittedly massive one at Coventry and the 2nd one at Bolton., which obivously sealed the win.
Think there was one v Sheff Weds at home I seem to remember. | | | |
| Why we didn't on 22:40 - Sep 18 with 196 views | lambo77 |
| Why we didn't on 00:45 - Sep 18 by Swailsey |
I keep hearing that for Greaves (I said it a few times myself at the start) but I’m really yet to see it.
Let’s hope it happens soon! |
might be out on a limb with this but have always felt we need players to max our leage position now, not for some maybe position in our future. | | | |
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