Forum | Solution to the small boats crisis apparently by bluelagos

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Solution to the small boats crisis apparently 15:59 - Sep 25 with 3056 views

They seem to be arguing making us all use digital ID will stop people using boats to claim asylum in the Uk.

Any excuse for some authoritarian stretch of the state into our personal lives eh.

Poll:

This new lockdown poll - what you reckon?

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 18:48 - Sep 25 with 1067 views

Swansea_Blue

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:27 - Sep 25 by BlueForYou

The correct answer is boats facing in the opposite direction! Nearly every country in Europe are getting tough on illegal migration now except us. That's going to attract even more illegals to book a boat trip. Just cannot see how forcing law abiding UK citizens to accept ID Cards is in any way stopping the problem. There has always been a huge opposition to ID Cards, & this is bringing them in through the back door. Can't see this happening personally.

I don’t think you’re right about irregular migration (these people aren’t doing anything illegal by claiming asylum). We’re returning more than ever after sorting out new return agreements. We’re also harming our own economy in order to get all migration down and it is significantly down.

I’d be surprised if a digital ID card makes any difference, so agree on that point.

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 19:15 - Sep 25 with 1018 views

Cheltenham_Blue

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 17:09 - Sep 25 by bluelagos
So it's about enforcing the laws of employment? Not sure why OAPs, the retired and children are mandated to.have them... Blunt instrument for solving a problem that it won't solve...

"OAPs, the retired and children are mandated to.have them..."

Sorry the retired and OAPs already have government issued ID, but where is the legislation to say that the U16s will be required to carry the proposed ID Cards?

I mean if we're going worry about authoritarianism, best not to engage in disinformation which is page one of the authoritarianism playbook.

Poll:

Is it more annoying when builders

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 19:31 - Sep 25 with 984 views

bluelagos

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 19:15 - Sep 25 by Cheltenham_Blue
"OAPs, the retired and children are mandated to.have them..." Sorry the retired and OAPs already have government issued ID, but where is the legislation to say that the U16s will be required to carry the proposed ID Cards? I mean if we're going worry about authoritarianism, best not to engage in disinformation which is page one of the authoritarianism playbook.

Eh?

I'm retired and I dont have an ID card. Am unaware of any complulsory ID cards for children either.

Poll:

This new lockdown poll - what you reckon?

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 19:33 - Sep 25 with 977 views

Smoresy

I wanted a physical card. 😔

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 21:06 - Sep 25 with 878 views

VanSaParody

Only way ID cards will stop the boats is if we all swish them in the surf & cause the waves that will make an inflatable channel crossing impossible

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 21:15 - Sep 25 with 869 views

Cheltenham_Blue

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 19:31 - Sep 25 by bluelagos
Eh? I'm retired and I dont have an ID card. Am unaware of any complulsory ID cards for children either.

Mate, you were the one that typed about children being mandated to carry them.

Don't you have a bus pass, driving licence or passport then??

Poll:

Is it more annoying when builders

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:07 - Sep 26 with 673 views

Churchman

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 18:15 - Sep 25 by earlsgreenblue
Of course it won’t stop the boats, BUT I carry one in Portugal because it’s law to do so, as is carrying a driver’s licence whilst driving, or a boat skippers licence whilst boating. None of the above apply in the U.K. ……..crazy!

I struggle to see what the objection is to ID cards is. Why are people so against it? The only reason I can think of is if there’s something to hide.

As for unlimited immigration, I don’t think this government is interested in doing anything about it. No government has been for decades and the only reason they’re even making noises about it now is because they’re getting worried about the Reform swivel eyed mob.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:42 - Sep 26 with 629 views

bluelagos

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:07 - Sep 26 by Churchman

For me it's about freedoms.

In the UK we have a simple legal system whereby anything that is not illegal - you can do. We introduce laws to ban activities - but we don't command you to do anything.

You want to unicycle down the road, wearing a pink tiara singing Duran duran songs you can, as there are no laws to make any of those things crimes.

When I studied (just an appreciation of law - I was studying accounting) we were told there was only 1 law that mandated you to do anything - that was that you had to educate your kids. Aside from that, there was nothing in UK criminal system that was mandated.

I can't think of any laws since that have changed that simple principle in UK law.

Introduce a physical or digital ID card for all I care, but if you mandate it then it's a fundamental shift in how we treat people in the eyes of the law. The state telling us what to do - rather than telling us what we must not do (as it is now)

I value our freedoms, our rights to protest, to cross where I cross a road, to cycle pretty much anywhere including footpaths (not pavements). To work as/when I choose. To choose whether I take a vaccination (I do), to choose if I vote etc.

If it's not mandatory - all good - I'll probably opt in as/when I can see it makes my life easier - much as I have with digital cash, Oyster card etc.

But insisting on it, making it compulsory will never get my support as I value the way our legal system ensures my freedoms unlike countries where the state has much more influence in telling you what to do.

Personal views and I know others' aren't bothered - which is good too.

Edit - will opt out now as I can't be arsed getting bogged down in online arguments. Different opinions are hardly new :-)

[Post edited 26 Sep 7:43]

Poll:

This new lockdown poll - what you reckon?

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:50 - Sep 26 with 618 views

DJR

A few more observations.

1. The Guardian is reporting the scheme will apply to working adults which doesn't include me.

2. It is slightly ironic that the name of the card being touted is the Brit Card because recent migrants won't be Brits.

3. Jim Killock from Open Rights said. “The digital visa schemes that are already in place for migrants are a stark warning of the harms caused by data errors, systems failures and an indifferent, hostile Home Office. People have been unable to travel, lost job offers and even been made homeless because of existing digital ID schemes."

4. Spain is notorious for Britons living there outside the system. Our leaving the EU will presumably have persuaded many to regularise things but last year I came across a British tiler who had been there for 30 years outside the system.

[Post edited 26 Sep 7:53]

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:58 - Sep 26 with 586 views

NthQldITFC

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:46 - Sep 25 by DJR
Surely the answer is bigger boats?

...and the captain will still get eaten by the shark!

(The captain is obviously Sir Kier, but who is the shark? "No, no, no, let me eat..."?)

	⚔ Long live the Duke of Punuar ⚔
Poll:	How would you feel about a UK Identity Card?

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 08:32 - Sep 26 with 558 views

The_Flashing_Smile

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:42 - Sep 26 by bluelagos

[Post edited 26 Sep 7:43]

Are you opting out of the discussion because you said "OAPs, the retired and children are mandated to.have them..." when that's not true?

	Trust the process. Trust Phil.
Blog:	Between The Lines - The Poetry Of Ipswich Town, No.6

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 09:15 - Sep 26 with 506 views

Swansea_Blue

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:42 - Sep 26 by bluelagos

[Post edited 26 Sep 7:43]

I see your point. I’m on the fence about it. I’m uneasy about the civil liberties side of it but pragmatic about the benefits. The mandating is probably a key distinction in terms of law and freedoms, although we as citizens have to provide evidence of our ID for right to work checks already, so practically it doesn’t change the current requirements on us. At the moment my pragmatism is on top, just.

Your points are thought provoking but I don’t blame you for not wanting a back and forward pointless argument.

Although I’m tempted to put you on the div list for studying accounting

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 10:11 - Sep 26 with 442 views

crouchendyachtclub

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:33 - Sep 25 by SuperKieranMcKenna

Though the difference there is that’s option i.e. if I don’t want x company to have my data I can choose not to use them. Sounds like there won’t be an opt out here. I suspect most MN data firms have better security than govt departments too, and even if there are breaches corporations are still held to GDPR and can be heavily fined/sanctioned/be forced to pay compensation - not a chance the state will be held to those standards.

This feels opportunistic to me, they’ve been indicating long term aspirations to bring in such a scheme and are using migration as a political football in my opinion.

DVSA, passport office, inland revenue, and NHS all have your details to varying degrees and there hasn't been a significant data breach with any of them?

I have no idea why anybody would particularly care this unifying elements of the data and requiring employers to confirm legal work status before starting.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 10:16 - Sep 26 with 434 views

Smoresy

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:42 - Sep 26 by bluelagos

[Post edited 26 Sep 7:43]

We are mandated to register births and deaths as well I believe, and your singing unicycle activities would very much depend on the road and council! The legal requirements around cycling is quite a long list actually, both how and where we're lawfully permitted to do it.

From my perspective, our book of laws is so large that I don't consider us free to check out of society in a practical sense, to live any way we wish. Things must be paid for. If we aren't paying ourselves then we have someone paying for us.

If someone wished to retreat to the woods and live off grid, they'd probably be breaking multiple laws in where they lived and how they ate. To do so successfully without breaking laws would require an incredibly unfree way of living, and all the while the government commands the knowledge that they do exist, and ultimately when they don't. Whether anyone would be able to fulfill the latter brief is another matter.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 11:43 - Sep 26 with 367 views

Father_Jack

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 08:32 - Sep 26 by The_Flashing_Smile
Are you opting out of the discussion because you said "OAPs, the retired and children are mandated to.have them..." when that's not true?

Seatbelts. (Sorry - meant for Bluelagos).

[Post edited 26 Sep 11:51]

Less is more.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 13:33 - Sep 26 with 287 views

bluejacko

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:59 - Sep 25 by redrickstuhaart
Certainly the Europeans thinks so. Not so much deterence, but speeding up the process of knowing who people are is a massive step. One of the frequent squabbles with our EU friends is that we exacerbate the problem by not having this.

So do all the migrants crossing Europe through all the countries mentioned have digi ID then?

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 13:48 - Sep 26 with 263 views

dickie

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:07 - Sep 26 by Churchman

Have you read 1984?

-1

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 15:42 - Sep 26 with 209 views

Edmundo

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 18:33 - Sep 25 by Swansea_Blue
Farage’s Final Solution. Has a certain ring to it…

ID cards will certainly allow Farage to implement any "racial profiling " should the British public be stupid enough to vote his bigots in.

Poll:	Should we go for it in the January transfer window?
Blog:	Blue Sky Thinking

-1

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 15:51 - Sep 26 with 186 views

giant_stow

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 15:42 - Sep 26 by Edmundo
ID cards will certainly allow Farage to implement any "racial profiling " should the British public be stupid enough to vote his bigots in.

Re Farage, what a depressing state we're in, made worse by one faint hope, Andy Burnham crapping himself in public this week.

	Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Poll:	A clasmate tells your son their going to beat him up in the playground after sch

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 15:58 - Sep 26 with 170 views

OldFart71

Given that the governments IT system is run by Fisher Price I wouldn't trust them to hold any of my data securely.
The petition against introducing ID cards is already well over a million and climbing.
It would have no effect on illegal working whatsoever.
These Companies that employ people without ID would still have people working for them. They just do work for cash and pay by cash.
It also won't stop illegals coming in.
Starmer lives in his own little fantasy world.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:11 - Sep 26 with 148 views

J2BLUE

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 07:42 - Sep 26 by bluelagos

[Post edited 26 Sep 7:43]

You want to unicycle down the road, wearing a pink tiara singing Duran duran songs you can, as there are no laws to make any of those things crimes.

#oddlyspecific

	Truly impaired.
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Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:23 - Sep 26 with 102 views

The_Flashing_Smile

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:11 - Sep 26 by J2BLUE
You want to unicycle down the road, wearing a pink tiara singing Duran duran songs you can, as there are no laws to make any of those things crimes. #oddlyspecific

You can't do all that while waving the English flag these days. Unless you're an immigrant, then the taxpayer pays for your unicycle and tiara.

	Trust the process. Trust Phil.
Blog:	Between The Lines - The Poetry Of Ipswich Town, No.6

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:27 - Sep 26 with 95 views

DJR

Interesting angle.

A digital ID scheme will make hiring workers easier, according to the Recruitment and Employment Confederation. Its chief executive, Neil Carberry, put out this statement about the government’s plans.

"We use digital ID every day, from paying on our phones to travel and event tickets. There is no reason that the state should fall behind. By providing ID documents it already supplies digitally, the government can unlock faster job starts, and lower administration burdens in our labour market – as well as a faster, more accurate benefits system. This gives us a more fluent and dynamic job market – just what you need to achieve economic growth."

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 18:17 - Sep 26 with 37 views

BloomBlue

I don't have an issue with it, all adults have a NI number which is used to track people (and required for work), simply having the same digital version I don't see any difference.

I thought maybe its because an old duffer, but talking with a couple of youngsters in the pub last night, they didn't have an issue either, as both explained they're happy to carry an age verification card to buy alcohol, they didn't see any difference.

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 18:43 - Sep 26 with 23 views

JackNorthStand

Solution to the small boats crisis apparently on 16:12 - Sep 25 by Guthrum

The vast majority of people in the UK already have some form of government ID - passport, driving licence, National Insurance number, NHS number, being on the Electoral Roll. That's without the whole host of private companies and organisations who have our details for subscriptions, logins, bank accounts and so on.

My only real objections to it would be on the grounds of cost and poor data security.

Poor data security is a massive one - and as you said we already have many other forms of national identity so unsure if there is any value. This if card “ stopping the boats “ is farcical.

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