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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar 12:39 - Oct 13 with 4535 views

as well as a nonce, is it time we got rid of the lot of them?

Even Lizzie, supposed wonderful Monarch was happy to fund his covering up his crimes.

Or are we cool to be ruled by a family that prioritises it's own PR before all else?

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This new lockdown poll - what you reckon?

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 15:00 - Oct 13 with 1420 views

Kievthegreat

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 14:47 - Oct 13 by Guthrum
Technically, the Crown Estates are the personal property of the Monarch. It might be possible to redefine that as the property of the state - given the 1760 exchange was to enable those resources to be used to finance the country's government (as prior to that, but without the royal control).

Well they are property of the Sole Corporation, the "Crown", whose sole director is the Sovereign. However if they are no longer kings or queens, there is no sovereign anymore.

AFAIK it's all unprecedented so how to deal with it is not straightforward in the slightest. Perhaps Parliament could stipulate that upon the reigning monarchs death, the rights of the crown would not pass to their heir, but back to the state. Perhaps the monarch would willingly cede it. Perhaps Parliament would be more Draconian and attempt a seizure. You're entering into murky waters about the boundaries between people, institutions and states which are not always clear cut.

My main point would be that to frame the succession of the parts of the Royal Family's holding that is held via the Crown as defacto converting to their property is not certain or in my view morally justifiable.

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 15:03 - Oct 13 with 1409 views

Ryorry

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 14:23 - Oct 13 by BasingstokeBlue
Are you in the right thread?

Maybe he was trying to surruptitiously encourage a mass trespass onto Crown estates, a la Kinder Scout - "oh, sorry officer, my map must've got ot wrong" 😂


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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 15:10 - Oct 13 with 1387 views

Tangledupin_Blue

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 13:33 - Oct 13 by SuperKieranMcKenna
There’s nothing quite so daft, or medieval as the concept of hereditary power. We scoff at dictators like Putin and Starmer, yet the Royals although limited in power, are completely anti democratic/anti meritocracy.

You may not like Starmer but calling him a dictator makes you an idiot.

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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 15:15 - Oct 13 with 1359 views

J2BLUE

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 14:44 - Oct 13 by Blueschev
I just think it's a myth propagated by those who wish to maintain an outdated system. I see no actual evidence of it whatsoever.

Royal weddings. Royal babies. Jubilees, coronations, funerals, state visits.

Did you see the queen's funeral? Leaders from around the world came to pay respects.

State visits even mellow Trump a bit. Apparently he was "charm personified" during his first visit.

You can see it, you would just rather not to. I don't have a problem with that. Some people are 100% against an unelected head of state. I can certainly respect the opinion and see the logic. Just right now, I think they do more good than harm. Of course the Andrew thing was pretty awful but he's been cut out of the 'working' royals and I believe had his protected removed.

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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 15:18 - Oct 13 with 1333 views

Guthrum

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 15:00 - Oct 13 by Kievthegreat

Indeed. It's dealing with a fragmentary feudal remnant (the idea that the country belongs to its ruler) in a modern era which has not really believed that for several hundred years.

As a possible precedent, during the Commonwealth of 1649-60, the crown's revenues were simply assumed by Parliament (then by the Lord Protector and his council, but that's another story). Effectively, that was what happened in 1760 also, altho the monarch in that case retained theoretical title to his estates.

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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 16:43 - Oct 13 with 1235 views

Crawfordsboot

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 14:26 - Oct 13 by J2BLUE
I used to be a strong republican. I've mellowed for a number of reason. You can think it's weak but i'd rather the soft power of the royals than some national embarrassment likee Joey Essex or someone from Love Island elected by people thinking it's great bantz.

I think you are muddling “soft power” with “embedded privilege”. The have very little real power but enjoy obscene levels of unwarranted privilege .

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 16:47 - Oct 13 with 1219 views

SuperKieranMcKenna

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 15:10 - Oct 13 by Tangledupin_Blue
You may not like Starmer but calling him a dictator makes you an idiot.

Lol, wondered when someone would pick up on that.

Don’t worry I’ll report myself to the nearest station with my Digital ID.

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 16:50 - Oct 13 with 1212 views

J2BLUE

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 16:43 - Oct 13 by Crawfordsboot
I think you are muddling “soft power” with “embedded privilege”. The have very little real power but enjoy obscene levels of unwarranted privilege .

I'm not. They are widely considered to contribute to soft power in the UK. You can disagree but you can't just deny it's something regularly spoken about.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxklen5p2qo Another state visit just announced for December.

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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 17:47 - Oct 13 with 1131 views

Swansea_Blue

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 12:54 - Oct 13 by NedPlimpton
Usually I'd be completely for the abolishment of the monarchy, but given the potential for a Reform government and Farage thinking he can do whatever he wants a la trump, it could be time for the monarchy to prove their worth and stop anything too outrageous happening

They wouldn’t step in.

Haven’t we always known Andrew is a liar? They wouldn’t have paid off Guiffre (RIP) otherwise. And even though Liz contributed money, Charles authorised the bulk of it so they were all in it up to their necks.

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 18:43 - Oct 13 with 1086 views

Crawfordsboot

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 16:50 - Oct 13 by J2BLUE
I'm not. They are widely considered to contribute to soft power in the UK. You can disagree but you can't just deny it's something regularly spoken about. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxklen5p2qo Another state visit just announced for December.

Fair enough - ill retract that

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 19:18 - Oct 13 with 1040 views

Coastalblue

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 15:18 - Oct 13 by Guthrum

So you're saying scrap the lot and get ourselves another Lord Protector?

Might be good for bantz and taking on Trump at his own game, not so good for Boxing Day fixtures.

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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 19:30 - Oct 13 with 1026 views

djgooder

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 17:47 - Oct 13 by Swansea_Blue
They wouldn’t step in. Haven’t we always known Andrew is a liar? They wouldn’t have paid off Guiffre (RIP) otherwise. And even though Liz contributed money, Charles authorised the bulk of it so they were all in it up to their necks.

A long time ago, before all the Epstein and other stuff, I would have said Andrew was a good one as he did fly combat missions in the Falkalnds War……

Such a shame he ended up letting us all down.

At least he wasn’t elected though. The Americans voted for Donald, an Epstein associate and known to cast an eye over his own daughter.

Don’t know what the answer to the RF is. Growing up I would have been a staunch supporter without knowing why. Now though, after working hard, I hate people who have come from money and just get places because of the school they went too or whonthier dad is. But voting for a president is necessarily the answer a la Trump/Putin.

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 19:54 - Oct 13 with 977 views

Swansea_Blue

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 15:10 - Oct 13 by Tangledupin_Blue
You may not like Starmer but calling him a dictator makes you an idiot.

Quite right, although I think the point stands: the royals are largely useless. Their purpose seems only to be justified in terms of tradition. People try the economic argument around tourism, but that’s largely rubbish as we’d still get people coming here to look at the castles and the like anyway (Wales and Scotland have successful tourism industries based on their royal past without either having its own royals for centuries). Granted, some strange people seem to turn up at Buckingham palace to try and get a glimpse of them once in a while, but that’s what Madam Toussauds is for

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 20:14 - Oct 13 with 947 views

Coastalblue

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 19:54 - Oct 13 by Swansea_Blue

I made this point recently, I deal all day everyday with those people coming here as tourists. 10 years ago I was totally ambivalent about the RF, these days I still don't care much about them truth be told, but believe me, they absolutely are fascinated and in some instances obsessed with the RF.

Many, many of those going to Wales and Scotland spend time in London first or after, those with English as their first language, in other words former colonies are here at least in part because of the RF.

I say all of this as somebody currently sat in Tenby and responsible for 16 visitors who are all from either US, Canada, NZ or Aus.

I always dismissed the tourism thing until I saw it first hand, it's powerful and it draws people in.

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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 20:20 - Oct 13 with 929 views

Swansea_Blue

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 19:30 - Oct 13 by djgooder

Yes I think the ‘what’s the alternative?’ question often gets overlooked. For all their issues, in some ways the royals save us from ourselves, or at least could do if they were a bit more hands on. It’s probably a weak argument to keep them but I’m not 100% convinced democracy results in the best outcomes, as much as we like to tell ourselves that it’s the holy grail (and it probably is if genuine, but democratic systems now are too easily gamed/corrupted).

Poll:

Do you think Pert is key to all of this?

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 20:48 - Oct 13 with 886 views

Ryorry

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 20:20 - Oct 13 by Swansea_Blue

“Yes I think the ‘what’s the alternative?’ question often gets overlooked.”

I raise it every time on every rf thread I’m on, as it’s *the* key issue. I’d get rid of them like a shot if anyone could come up with a better alternative (which, crucially, would need to be acceptable to the majority of the general population) - but no one ever does.

Best efforts so far have I think been a Dutch-style rf; and my own suggestion for communities to nominate their local inspirational figures to go forward to a public vote. Winner then gets tenure for say 5 years.


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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 22:02 - Oct 13 with 815 views

ArchiRob

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 14:26 - Oct 13 by J2BLUE
I used to be a strong republican. I've mellowed for a number of reason. You can think it's weak but i'd rather the soft power of the royals than some national embarrassment likee Joey Essex or someone from Love Island elected by people thinking it's great bantz.

Almost as bad as electing a game show host

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What best describes Norwich defeat

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 06:55 - Oct 14 with 686 views

noggin

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 20:14 - Oct 13 by Coastalblue

"I always dismissed the tourism thing until I saw it first hand, it's powerful and it draws people in."

That doesn't explain the popularity of Paris though. I imagine the history and buildings are the draw, rather than the modern family.

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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 07:29 - Oct 14 with 645 views

Pippin1970

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 06:55 - Oct 14 by noggin
"I always dismissed the tourism thing until I saw it first hand, it's powerful and it draws people in." That doesn't explain the popularity of Paris though. I imagine the history and buildings are the draw, rather than the modern family.

I was in Barcelona on tour bus around city last week. Loving the goudie buildings. Americans on board going on about London and royal family . Taking to them about other parts of UK and Scotland. Like the lake district . Most are focused on London unfortunately.

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 08:33 - Oct 14 with 580 views

TRUE_BLUE123

Like many on this thread I'm no fan of the institution but it aint going anywhere so it is what it is.

That being said there is no way I would ever bow to another human or refer to another human as your highness. Not a chance.

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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 08:47 - Oct 14 with 565 views

DJR

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 20:48 - Oct 13 by Ryorry

There are several countries which are parliamentary republics with a ceremonial president.

Germany is one, and the president is appointed by a Federal Convention

It is convened solely for the purpose of electing the President of Germany. The Federal Convention consists of all members of the federal parliament (Bundestag) and the same number of delegates from the 16 federated states. Those delegates are elected by the state parliaments for this purpose only.

In our case, someone appointed by both Houses of Parliament ought to rule out someone disagreeable who might be elected if it went to the popular vote, as in Ireland. Instead, we ought to end up with a distinguished elder statesman perhaps from the centre ground.

Ming Campbell would probably have met that bill.

[Post edited 14 Oct 8:57]

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 08:52 - Oct 14 with 559 views

chicoazul

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 13:44 - Oct 13 by Blueschev
I cannot fathom how anybody in their right mind can be in favour of it. It honestly baffles me.

Your choice of PFP is the perfect example of why I am 100% in favour of a monarchy and our current system.

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Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 00:51 - Oct 15 with 376 views

Ryorry

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 08:47 - Oct 14 by DJR

[Post edited 14 Oct 8:57]

“In our case, someone appointed by both Houses of Parliament ought to rule out someone disagreeable who might be elected”

“Ought to “ - but wouldn’t - not if the likes of both Johnsons, JRM, Mone et al had the vote anyway.


Poll:	Town's most cultured left foot ever?

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 07:46 - Oct 15 with 280 views

DJR

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 00:51 - Oct 15 by Ryorry
“In our case, someone appointed by both Houses of Parliament ought to rule out someone disagreeable who might be elected” “Ought to “ - but wouldn’t - not if the likes of both Johnsons, JRM, Mone et al had the vote anyway.

Given the make-up of, numbers in, and reasonableness of, the House of Lords, I can't see the likes of the people you mention having much impact or being elected.

[Post edited 15 Oct 7:51]

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 12:52 - Oct 15 with 164 views

Kievthegreat

Now that there is no doubt that Andrew is a liar on 00:51 - Oct 15 by Ryorry
“In our case, someone appointed by both Houses of Parliament ought to rule out someone disagreeable who might be elected” “Ought to “ - but wouldn’t - not if the likes of both Johnsons, JRM, Mone et al had the vote anyway.

We can also end up with a disagreeable monarch, but without a way to fix it until they die. This proposal is surely preferable to the status quo.

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